alexjuice Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I hope to elaborate on this, but essentially my problem with doing SCD properly was that it required a too basic diet too heaviliy reliant on broths. I've found bone broths problematic (gaps) and fats as well (gaps). Doing some research I found some reasons for this in cases like mine. Additionally, the version of the diet that I was on was for people with severe, severe digestive issues such as Crhons (sp???). I do not need that specific a diet. Also I found I wasn't getting near enough balance without any dairy or bread or starch. I am modifying. Adding in sweet potato, but only after high protein intake (i've found reason for this) and even white potato (baked no accessories). I am reducing reliance on broths, though I think they're helpful. The main lesson is that just eating a ton of meat and broth and a few veggies and eggs wasn't the answer. It's maybe like the start of the answer. Also, I take some blame bc I kept cheating (and I think I am a high-cheat risk) and then starting over again on the intro diet which is not sufficiently nourishing. I'm adding back starchy vegetables, as I said, and some dairy -- probably yogurt, maybe I'll make a batch at home. Expanding the diversity of my vegetable intake. Reducing eggs a bit, though still eggs are a staple. most importantly, not eating sugary, carby crap. No muffins, no HFCS anything, no donuts, no candy bars. Also I am generally not eating any breads, pasta, etc. More to come. Alex ps - I've not felt my right middle finger fully for two weeks. Too much tingly. Otherwise feeling the same, in a relative (but I'm older). "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 7, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 7, 2011 Roads, these diets do not exclude meats. Meat, even red meat, can be important to your nutrition. Meat (and other food made from animals) contains vitamin B12, which is essential for neurological health. You cannot get this from plants. Meat is concentrated protein, too, important for any healing process. Humans evolved as omnivores, eating everything. Our bodies are not designed to run on only vegetables, no matter what the vegetarians say. These diets reduce the foods that might cause gut irritation, as some people are sensitive to grain products or processed food or refined sugar. As Alex found, you may need to tweak the diet for your own digestive needs. Nadia -- fried bananas, yum! So delicious when caramelized. I'm sure that will satisfy any sweet tooth! This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Hey maybe, Here's what has worked for me. First, digestive enzymes - the Digest line from Enzymedica - has worked for me, definitely helps my digestion. The problem is that I am very sensitive. I'd recommend just the line called Digest (rather than Digest Basic, or Digesst Gold), start with a 1/10th capsule and build up. If you are tolerant, you'll be able to get to a full capsule pretty quick. Also fats, particularly cocunut oil, lubricates my tract and really seems to get things moving in the gut as well. You could try cooking with organic cocunut oil. Just use a little at first and see how you do. Then you can also try probiotic foods or supplements. I don't know that these help with motility per se but they but generally promote healthy digestive function. Lastly, look at your diet. Certain foods are hard to digest. For instance, I've been staying away from grains and breads b/c those were problematic for me. Alex Hey Alex, Thanks a lot for your advice. I will try the cocunut oil and see how it works out. Currently I do not want to add any "unnatural" supplement to my diet, as I fear it will make things worse, so I stay with normal food. I have been following my suggested diet plan for roughly 3 or 4 months now and it did nothing to my system, nothing bad, nothing good. I do not eat any diary products, yeast or bread (only rye crispbread). As a test showed that I have a reaction to them, I thought it would settle my nervous system a bit, but it seems to have absolutely no influence... End of 2008: Remeron 15mg for around 2 months. Unorthodox taper, no problems.End of August 2009: Lexapro 10mg for only 4 days. Panic attack after 3 pills. Severe gastro problems in the morning for 3 days after last pill. 2 weeks later strong w/d symptoms set in. Acute WD lasted around 3.5 years. I am feeling much better today, 5.5 years out, but still have some symptoms left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 After a couple other tries, I am more uncertain with coconut oil. I'd recommend cautious approach and see how you do. "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Also a little coffee may help with motility. But I have had problems with coffee as well. Americano with 1 shot of espresso is where I start, less caffeine than drip coffee. Have u been taking caffeine? "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Hey Alex, No, I haven't taken anything that might arouse my CNS. I am too afraid to test it. Only drink a bit of green tea now and then. Besides, I am no fan of coffee I regularly drank sauerkraut juice, which is quite healthy. Though I didn't notice any positive effect. End of 2008: Remeron 15mg for around 2 months. Unorthodox taper, no problems.End of August 2009: Lexapro 10mg for only 4 days. Panic attack after 3 pills. Severe gastro problems in the morning for 3 days after last pill. 2 weeks later strong w/d symptoms set in. Acute WD lasted around 3.5 years. I am feeling much better today, 5.5 years out, but still have some symptoms left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Hey Alex, No, I haven't taken anything that might arouse my CNS. I am too afraid to test it. Only drink a bit of green tea now and then. Besides, I am no fan of coffee I regularly drank sauerkraut juice, which is quite healthy. Though I didn't notice any positive effect. I totally understand. I was very, very sensitive to coffee. I took some via espresso, starting with 1/5th of one shot. I found I could build up and that it seemed to help with my digestive issues. The problem is that right now the coffee is not helping with other issues so I am weening off of it. You know your body best, maybe, and it is far more important to be cautious, I believe. How are you doing? "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Well, still up and down all the way. Most days are endurable and I can go to work. But I have done so the past 14 months or so and have seen no real improvements during that time. When I do something wrong (eg. sports) or have too much stress, I still feel terrible. But I still hope that I may wake up one morning and wd is just gone...even if this is hard to believe. End of 2008: Remeron 15mg for around 2 months. Unorthodox taper, no problems.End of August 2009: Lexapro 10mg for only 4 days. Panic attack after 3 pills. Severe gastro problems in the morning for 3 days after last pill. 2 weeks later strong w/d symptoms set in. Acute WD lasted around 3.5 years. I am feeling much better today, 5.5 years out, but still have some symptoms left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roads Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Thanks alto and CS for the advice. I have heard of the B12, so I keep eating fish. I have tried banning gluten from my alimentation, and I got constipated since. I have even heard of a kind of withdrawal that may result from stopping gluten! Did anyone got GI problems stopping gluten? First AD -sertraline- in 2007at the age of 13 because of child abuse 2009-2013: intricate story of multiple wds, meds and cts, gradually became a living mess Feb 2013: last CT from a cocktail of four drugs, symptoms are relenting but witness a constant sharpening of the brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roads Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hey, during my search of good nutrition, I came across something rather unexpected: the significant dangers of... soy! I intended to make it a staple aliment of my diet since I want to curb meat, but these information kind of putt me off... http://www.foodrenegade.com/dangers-of-soy/ http://www.naturalhealthstrategies.com/dangers-of-soy.html This is not fussing about a potential nasty effect (including thyroid upsetting! quite bad for wd) engendered by abuse, according to these sources, it is highly toxic. I even read an article in french of the deleterious character of soy by a chinese medical person. First AD -sertraline- in 2007at the age of 13 because of child abuse 2009-2013: intricate story of multiple wds, meds and cts, gradually became a living mess Feb 2013: last CT from a cocktail of four drugs, symptoms are relenting but witness a constant sharpening of the brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Hey, during my search of good nutrition, I came across something rather unexpected: the significant dangers of... soy! I avoid soy entirely. IMO, nutrition is officially in camps that more or less align left/right. Eco-ethical/soy/wholegrain vs. Paleo/animalproducts/fats. "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Quick hits: -I can't handle B-vitamins, even vitamin water (enriched H20) caused me big probs last week. Same with komnucha, Bs as well as alcohol make this a no-go. -Sugar cravings constantly follow a few days of healthy eating. Eating sweets doesn't resolve cravings but begets greater cravings. Then eventual crash. I can guess what is happening and if I wasn't always sick, I could find someone knowledgable at the Neuroscience Institute and badger them with questions... I will hassle some academics over Xmas break if possible. -I tried making broths with just meat. Interesting results. Did better with chickens cut by butcher in half or quarters. I'll take the skin, bones, liver, connective tissue etc from now on... -Caffeine (and alcohol) deplete electrolytes. I've had pain in hips, spine, wrist while also enjoying loss of feeling in hands and feet and constantly being cold ... possibly due to electrolyte imbalance... trying to get back on track. -Not convinced that complex starchy veggies belong in the same badnews boat as simple carbs. Ancedotally Ive done well after eating sweet potato and even white potato. Ate whole potato, totally plain. -SCD intro diet may be great, but I kept slipping up and then re-starting it. This didn't work well. It's not wise, IMO, to exist solely on beef patty, chicken meat and broth and carrots and grape juice for extended period. (With a day of eating donuts and fried food in between intro days) -I shouldn't drink any alcohol. (I had half a vodka/tonic few weeks ago.) -Latte is the worst caffeine. (espresso + milk) Dunno why. -I am off caffeine and off sweets. (I am making this proclamation yet again.) Alex ps - I've not been doing too well and have not been prompt answering PMs. I'll be better. Thanks, guys "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Does anyone still do GAPS? If so, noticed reaction to bone broth? I continue to have bone problems and wonder if calcium/mg balance out of whack. Too much Ca, too little Mg. Ideas? Alex "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 14, 2012 Administrator Share Posted January 14, 2012 I hope it's okay, guys, I moved your posts to a more appropriate topic. The idea of tailoring a diet to the individual is very important! Alex, you did have a bit of improvement when you started on the low-irritant diet. Did the broths change their effect on you? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenhealthgirl Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 For me, identifying fructose intolerance has been huge in improving my depression. Fructose in the gut binds with tryptohan, which is essential for making serotonin. I'm now down to 1/8 of my dose and doing well without fructose or fructans. <a href=”http://www.squidoo.com/getting-off-ssris-my-experience” target=new>My experience with getting off antidepressants</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 How long did it take after you reduced/eliminated fructose for you to notice the difference? Did you have cravings? '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 For me, identifying fructose intolerance has been huge in improving my depression. Fructose in the gut binds with tryptohan, which is essential for making serotonin. I'm now down to 1/8 of my dose and doing well without fructose or fructans. <a href=”http://www.squidoo.com/getting-off-ssris-my-experience” target=new>My experience with getting off antidepressants</a> Matt Lalonde, a PHD scientist, feels this is a big issue that doesn't get enough attention. He doesn't seem to have a webpage but here is a link to various talks he has given. I find him very impressive. http://paleozonenutrition.com/2010/11/16/mat-lalonde-phd-biochemistry-talks-about-scientific-evidence-and-the-paleo-diet/ CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 26, 2012 Administrator Share Posted January 26, 2012 I've asked greenhealthgirl to post more about herself. So far she's only posted links to her blog, which has advertising for the products she recommends. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm 15days into a Paleo/GAPS diet and take an expensive probiotic even tho I can't afford it. I have just learned on YouTube how to make sauerkraut so will be making it instead of buying probiotics. These diets just seem to make so much sense. I wish i had learned of them before i went on AD's. I'm sure a healed gut would translate to a healthy brain. I have signs of severe gut problems from leaky gut and i could just never work out what the hell has been the matter with me. - very underweight - fatigue from liver congestion - dark under my eyes - rashes - acne on chest and back - unexplained hair loss that doesn't run in my family as male pattern hair loss - anxiety yeah it's been awesome My hunch is damage from grains. I lived off them. Was vegetarian for many years and had grains at every meal. Lots of soy too. To make things worse i was a junk food vegetarian. Eating lots of meals like greasy fries full of transfats etc. If you could reverse the GAPS/Paleo diet, that's pretty much what my diet was all the way til 35yrs old. *sigh* oh well, at least i know now. Better late than never. I'm trying out Glutamine during the week. I read from Pubmed.org that this is good for healing the intestinal wall, the brain, and healing the body in general after stress. Bodybuilders use it for this reason. I'm hoping that it's not stimulating as I know during WD periods this can be bad. I have experience with 5-htp and it was nasty would love to know if anyone has tried Glutamine for healing the brain during WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 10, 2012 Administrator Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hi, BB. When you were vegetarian, did you take a vitamin B12 supplement? You can get B12 only from animal sources; B12 deficiency is a real problem among vegetarians. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hi Yeah my b12 was fine as I had bloodwork checks for minerals and vitamins. I should have got more intensive bloodwork to check for more things but I was young and didn't really know about that sort of stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 11, 2012 Administrator Share Posted March 11, 2012 Low B12 does not always show up in bloodwork. See this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1392-vitamin-b12-essential-for-mood-nervous-system This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hey BentBuddha, Do you intend to follow the whole protocol -- supplements, enemas, detox baths, etc -- or just the diet? I also think the GAPS diet sounds like it makes a lot of sense. I've had some issues with implementing since nothing can just be easy, right??. Since I remain hypersensitive I need to remember to exercise caution. Also, I've had a lot of trouble with the high fat nature of the diet. I ate really poorly for about 15 years and also drank a lot of alcohol plus all the Drugs. My insides may be pretty crapped. I am also underweight so please let me know of your experience with GAPS. Alex "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hi Alex. I think I'd have to check my notes, but I think this friday I'll be 4wks into paleo diet, and 2wks into GAPS. They're almost identical. It's hard to say at this stage as I haven't been making the sauerkraut or kefir, but I have been taking a proper pro biotic with 300billion in them as suggested for the diet. Flooding the digestive system with as much probiotics from different sources is the central theme it seems in GAPS (else it's really just the Paleo diet) so I will get onto it soon. I've just kept it basic while incorporating IF lately and busy researching other things as well. It's really hard to separate what's what at the moment because I have symptoms from withdrawals from these drugs that is separate from my long term issues from poor diet. GAPS is 2yr deal so I need more time with it. I'd already been on some crazy diets these last couple of years so it hasn't been hard work to switch to this one. In fact, I love the food and it's very simple. Bone broth is another thing I've yet to get around to. IF heals the intestinal wall, which is the aim of bone broth. Not that I'm going to exchange one for the other, just that I haven't felt the urgency. I have bought a huge pot to make the broth but not yet found a good bone during my shopping trips. GAPS/Paleo and IF seem to be the way we ate during the vast majority of evolution so I'm incorporating them together at the same time. It would be impossible for me to say if it was only one thing that helped and not the other. I do have more energy, both mental and physical since doing the IF. I'm getting out and about and socializing more. This is a contrast to previous weeks where I isolated myself by staying home and generally felt like avoiding people - even kept my phone off. Not to mention my house was very dirty because I didn't have the energy, motivation or interest in cleaning it. I've even been riding my bike again which before was impossible. I just didn't have the energy. I can't be certain of this, but it appears to me that the diet started to show improvements, then the IF took it up another level. It could be coincidence tho and that the benefits of the diet just started to kick in recently. Ppl would have to do their own isolated experiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 @Comsports: Matt Lalonde is one of my personal favs in as far as dietry and health advice goes. It's strange he doesn't have a website and only gives talks but that's ok i do enjoy viewing the youtube clips or listening to radio intviews. I think he mentioned on one of his radio interviews once it was because he wanted to keep his credibility high by not selling anything as he has 'a day job' (his words). Matt Lalonde, Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf and Dr. Natasha Mcbride (GAPS) seem to echo almost the same message and personally I think they're the leaders in the health movement at the moment. Nice find p.s "IF" in my previous post refers to Intermittent Fasting. Something I've heard all of them recommend except for Dr. Natasha. She hasn't expressed an opinion for or against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The more i research GAPS, the more I can't help but wonder if the reason that some ppl take a long time to heal from antidepressants, is the same reason why they took them in the first place. Damage in the gut. This next interview is the best one of Dr. Natasha I've heard. I have a lot of respect for both of these doctors (McBride and Mercola). I feel somewhat enlightened as to my life long health conditions thanks to their info. I've just made my first batch of Kefir. I bought the grains off ebay which came in express post in a little bit of milk so they didn't spoil. It's delicious in a smoothy. I personally ferment mine for 48hrs so the casein (milk protein) is broken down. Else i get itchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Since GAPS diet is one variation of a gluten free diet I thought people might be interested in a new post about gluten and mental health. I've done extensive experimentation now with GAPS as well as other diets that purport to heal the gut...all of which are gluten free. New study from John Hopkins showing gluten sensitivity in people labeled with schizophrenia (and how gluten can effect a lot of us) http://beyondmeds.com/2012/04/22/glutenmentalhealth/ And BentBuddha, damage to the gut is definitely ONE of the many possible reasons people may not be healing from ADs...and yes, some people go on them for that reason too. I've been working very diligently on healing my gut since long before I completed my withdrawal however and so that suggests gut issues go very deep. But over the years I continue to get improvement and it's very clear that what I eat makes a difference. I have to say fasting while in withdrawal is most likely a bad idea...my educated opinion at this juncture...our blood sugar levels and general instability are not conducive to having any sort of meaningful success while fasting. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 short fasts (intermittent) have given some benefits. And some downsides too. The main one is not being able to turn the 'hunger' signal off. Even days later. I have had previous experience with fasting and this wan't the case then. It's only during withdrawal. You can seriously eat everything in your fridge, cupboards and then go for some take away. Great if you're skinny, not so great for the horizontally challenged. bb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted April 24, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 24, 2012 I find fasting or even dieting to be iffy in withdrawal. I'd say for people reading this thread to consider it one of those "your mileage may vary" issues and be careful with it. Hunger causes all kinds of hormone cascades in the body including cortisol and cortisol seems to be involved in lots of withdrawal symptoms. It's too bad, because I used to feel better when I fasted occasionally, but nowadays I can't. I've been doing more reading about the enteric nervous system (the gut's nervous system) and how it interacts with the normal flora (the healthy intestinal bacteria), and how the signals from the gut go to the brain and vice versa. I think this is the key, for me, of the effectiveness of the GAPs diet. For me it doesn't even seem to be about gut healing so much, I guess mine was already in okay shape, didn't take long. But I can really tell when I eat stuff that disrupts the healthy flora. I can get away with a day or two of iffy eating as long as I take probiotics but longer than that and things get out of balance and take a while to get back. I think disruption of the flora might be part of why supplements can cause problems in withdrawal and why people who have already been taking supplements regularly don't always have problems with them. (the microbiota are already adapted so the supplement doesn't disrupt them.) Just a hypothesis. Interesting thing about kefir: it's practically magic for me, as far as settling down the gut-nervous-system, but it also makes me really constipated. I wonder if there's a connection. Like, it just quiets everything down TOO much. I have to take breaks from it to, um, keep things moving, as it were. Love the fermented vegs though, they help a lot too, as far as keeping the gut/neuro symptoms settled down. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2982.2010.01664.x/full I have an even better article somewhere but can't find it Googling now. Will post it as soon as I find it. Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Thanks for the report Rhi. I'll add that my experience with GAPS detox baths has been bad, just really bad. Even using lesser amounts of Epsom, ACV, Sea Salt, etc I regret doing them at all... Way too potent. Couple bad setbacks. I won't be doing them anymore. I also find I do better ensuring a good carb intake, so I try to eat a lot of vegetables. I've accidentally narrow-focused on broths and soups and meats and fats and a few veggies... and had bad results. I am interested to make kefir; I bought a brand to try at the super-healthy Rx that looks 95% okay, it's got stevia. I am having problems with sauekraut and dairy, even SCD yogurt. I will try again to ferment some veggies too -- I think there is definitely some art to this. That or I just really screwed it up on the first attempt. Alex PS - I think any sort of fasting, for me, would not be an idea I'd be excited to experiment with and I tend to strive towards regularity. I do best eating not less frequently than every 3 or 4 hrs. "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 If you're in the states, Mark Sisson from marksdailyapple.com makes a good probiotic formula with 30billion in them as per daily recommendation from Dr. Natasha for GAPS. I live in Australia and the highest i could get from my health food store was 5 billion. He's a smart guy, I've learned a lot from him about Paleo/Primal lifestyle http://primalblueprint.com/products/Primal-Flora.html I'm not having great luck with my Kefir. It ferments well the first 24hrs and starts to separate the fat from the whey, but when i put that kefir into a new jar so i can use the grains to start a new batch, the first lot stops fermenting it seems. I know i have leaky gut because gluten and casein make me itchy so the proteins must not be digested properly and getting through. Soy does the same, as well as some supplements. I have fermented the kefir for 3days and still i get the itch. I'm going to try just leaving the grains in for a few days and if that doesn't work then i'll give up on it and stick with supplementing probiotics. I've noticed while in WD, cravings really make this GAPS/Paleo thing extra difficult. Out of the blue I'll get these intense cravings for either sugary food, bread or cheese. Normally on my most stressful days. I know I'm not hungry as I've eaten well, it's like my brain is starving for relief from the unpleasantness of WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted April 25, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 25, 2012 BB, there's lots of stuff on the Internet about kefir-making, I bet there are some good tips out there. I usually leave the grains in the jar on the counter for 24-48 hours (depending on the temperature) and then dump them out and either leave it out another day or put it in the fridge. Or sometimes if I'm too busy to strain out the grains I just put the whole jar in the fridge and get to it later. The kefir isn't always fizzy and it doesn't always taste the same, since it's a mixed colony. As long as it's tasty to me, I call it good. Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted April 25, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 25, 2012 Thanks for the report Rhi. I'll add that my experience with GAPS detox baths has been bad, just really bad. Even using lesser amounts of Epsom, ACV, Sea Salt, etc I regret doing them at all... Way too potent. Couple bad setbacks. I won't be doing them anymore. I also find I do better ensuring a good carb intake, so I try to eat a lot of vegetables. I've accidentally narrow-focused on broths and soups and meats and fats and a few veggies... and had bad results. I am interested to make kefir; I bought a brand to try at the super-healthy Rx that looks 95% okay, it's got stevia. I am having problems with sauekraut and dairy, even SCD yogurt. I will try again to ferment some veggies too -- I think there is definitely some art to this. That or I just really screwed it up on the first attempt. Alex PS - I think any sort of fasting, for me, would not be an idea I'd be excited to experiment with and I tend to strive towards regularity. I do best eating not less frequently than every 3 or 4 hrs. For the fermented vegs, did you use the starter packets? They work well for me. What went wrong, did the cabbage spoil? You do have to give it a lot of time, like a week or two, unlike kefir which only takes a day or two. Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 No I tried cabbage without any starter. Cabbage, salt, carrots... and after a week, I uncovered it to find a sloppy mush. I'm not sure how to describe it, it didn't look like pics with the recipe or any sauerkraut I'd had before. I think my 2 errors were adding extra salt water without giving the cabbage time to 'sweat' its juices and that I set it up in mom's side laundry room without thinking through temp changes. During the day it's fine, but we had a weird cold spell that week. At night, when the heat auto-switches to off, it cooled down to ~50 degrees. Anyway, it didn't come out. I am going to try something other than sauerkraut next. Also, I bought some cocount water organic kefir from the Rx. It's really convenient to just buy it. But it has one questionable ingredient. So I am sort of experimenting with it; I already make so much from scratch it'd be good to be able to buy off the shelf for a change. "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentBuddha Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Thanks Rhi. Yeah I was watching some clips on Youtube where they just leave the grains in for 24hrs and then start a new batch. That hasn't been working out for me so I decided to try 48hrs. Unfortunately while I was shaking the jar this morning i slipped and ended up with most of the kefir in the sink with some dirty dishes. One of them being a bowl of dirty water. I'm betting they're done for, but I rinsed them in spring water and put them in a new batch of milk and fingers crossed. I want to at least one batch of Kefir that's been fermenting for 48hrs to see if it gives me 'the itch', before i give up on it altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 26, 2012 Administrator Share Posted April 26, 2012 Here's my recipe for easy liver pate: Ingredients: Liver - lamb, pork, chicken, or turkey, preferably organic (beef and veal liver tend to be a little tough) Yellow onions Fresh green beans Garlic, if you like it Salt and pepper Preparation: 1. Trim liver and saute in butter or olive oil. Watch it closely, it's very easy to overcook liver, which makes it leathery and bitter. It should be pinkish inside. (Even if it does get overcooked, you can still use it for pate.) 2. Saute an equal amount by weight of sliced onions until they are golden. If you wish, saute a bit of garlic with the onions. 3. Steam or microwave an equal amount by weight of trimmed green beans -- not too much, leave them with a bit of a crunch. (I prefer to microwave, they're not as soggy.) 4. Puree everything together with a food processor or stick blender. Add salt and pepper to taste. Very yummy and extremely good for you -- liver and veggies combined. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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