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I am a vegan- I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables and have eliminated all processed and junk foods and very little wheat. I feel really good and this withdrawal has been so much better than previous attempts. I am very confident that this will be the last time. I've lost weight and I feel so energetic.I also feel good that it is not causing any harm, which is a huge part of my spiritual beliefs.

Effexor 75 mg for 3 yrs.

Effexor XR 75 mg for 10 yrs.

Effexor XR 150 mg for 5 years.

Currently at 37.5 and weaning slowly

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some people have found veganism to be detrimental to their well-being while in withdrawal. I was one of those people...it was a nightmare really. I would prefer to not eat animals as well. This is a lesson in humility and the nature of reality for me. All of nature eats itself one way or another. Not eating animal products causes me harm at this time.

 

I hope that in the future when I am well I will be able to return to a diet with much less or no animals products. For now I am humbled at the power of nature and the ability for my body to make it clear what I need to heal and thrive.

 

You can be grateful that you thrive without animal products Coleen. I certainly would be but I am not alone in finding that even very carefully planned vegan diets can harm some of us at this delicate time. I do know one other person who did a withdrawal as a raw vegan and she did very well...but I actually have heard of more who had issues with veganism. Most of us have more options once we heal.

 

Both me and a close friend (who withdrew 12 years earlier) ended up with hives long-term...so severe we should've been hospitalized but that would have been dangerous because of how ill we were and hospitals don't recognize withdrawal syndrome. Anyway...thank god I had her to tell me what was happening and help me through.

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Here's my recipe for easy liver pate:

 

Ingredients:

Liver - lamb, pork, chicken, or turkey, preferably organic (beef and veal liver tend to be a little tough)

Yellow onions

Fresh green beans

Garlic, if you like it

Salt and pepper

 

Preparation:

1. Trim liver and saute in butter or olive oil. Watch it closely, it's very easy to overcook liver, which makes it leathery and bitter. It should be pinkish inside. (Even if it does get overcooked, you can still use it for pate.)

 

2. Saute an equal amount by weight of sliced onions until they are golden. If you wish, saute a bit of garlic with the onions.

 

3. Steam or microwave an equal amount by weight of trimmed green beans -- not too much, leave them with a bit of a crunch. (I prefer to microwave, they're not as soggy.)

 

4. Puree everything together with a food processor or stick blender. Add salt and pepper to taste.

 

Very yummy and extremely good for you -- liver and veggies combined.

 

Hi Alto, this sounds absolutely yummy. Next trip to the market, I'm going to pick up the fixins. I really like liver pate, and this is sooo easy. YES! :D

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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alexjuice

I intend to write a more proper post when a keyboard avails itself, but I find myself reflecting on my experience with GAPS and other diets I've tried.

 

I started GAPS to help with gastrointestinal problems caused, clearly in large part, by my psychiatric withdrawal yndrome. I struggled on the diet both with eating enough, because my motility was slowed and with intermittent sweet cravings. The sweet cravings came like clockwork, after about a week of soups, meats and veggies.

 

Before I started on GAPS, I had not been eating sweets at all. Though I ate chocolate, cakes, cookies, soda, etc to excess while taking ADs and antipsychotics, I had been off both the drugs and the sweets for 18 months. Since September I have yo-yo'd between no grain/starch and only limited dairy and other carbs and, on the other hnd, short cheap carb/sugar binges.

 

I can only wonder how things might have gone if I just followed the GAPS protocol without slip ups.

 

As i reflect in my current state, worse off that I was in September, I wonder if I made the right decision to experiment with the protocol while in the vulnerable neurological state caused by psych med withdrawal. I wonder if my sudden and unparralleled cravings on GAPS derived from the role of carbs in amino acid clearance, facilitating transport of serotonin across the barrier. I doubt that "detox baths" were wise in my compromised state, especially in light of two debilitating setbacks that resulted from different baths.

 

There is obvious good sense and wisdom behind many of the practices in the protocol, like selecting fresh and organic while avoiding processed foods, sure. That said, some notions seem generally debatable or unsound specifically in light of w/d concerns -- olive oil in lieu of all toothpastes commercially available (which are toxic, if you did not know) and stimulant enemas are two examples.

 

I felt some unease with the GAPsters' unsettling habit of deferring to proclamations by "Dr Natasha" to support adherence to certain cornerstone or idiosyncratic or poorly understood elements of the protocol. I imagine that's probably how the Branch Davidians settled uncertain matters as well, though they surely cited David Koresh not Dr. Natasha.

 

Anyway, I hope others considering the GAPS diet buy Campbell-McBride's book and read it. And I hope they realize that, regardless of if they want to eat by the Haas diet,and participate in the supplement and detox legs of the protocol, GAPS is not a protocol developed for individuals in withdrawal from psychotropic agents. The intro diet in particular is, for 99._% of people, going to be a radical change. It was for me.

 

GAPS *was* created specifically NC-M's autistic child. The dietary leg is almost entirely taken from the Haas diet itself specifically created for severe medical issues other than withdrawal from psychiatric medication. Of course, GAPS has since been found beneficial by others for other ailments. (The list is quite impressive.)

 

In retrospect, I believe doing Intro GAPS probably was too drastic for me. I wish I could undo that, go back and never start. Most of my original gastro issues I can now, due to reduced sensitivities, treat with OTC supplements to help bile & Hcl output, add exogenous pancreatic enzymes and increase motility.

 

I hadn't problem with many 'illegal' foods I choose to abstain from to adhere to the diet. I did experience multiple adverse reactions to elements of GAPS from beef broth to, more recently, sauerkraut. I hope any issues potentially worsened by weight loss, detox reactions and caloric peaks and valleys will be undone with time.

 

As I said, many of the concepts of GAPS agree with me. However, I reiterate my sadness that I did not abandon the protocol earlier, back in December when I began to experience coldness and loss of feeling in the extremities. My metabolic state has only deteriorated since. I don't fault GAPS since I didnt practice it to a T nor with fanatical adherence. I should have recognized that I wasn't succeeding earlier and reverted to principles of eating which I'd followed without issue in my first year after discontinuation. Instead I kept trying and trying while getting worse gastro-intestinally-- yet getting better psychologucally.

 

I did my best.

 

Good luck,

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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BentBuddha

Thanks for sharing that.

 

I personally skipped the intro and went for the full protocal. Unlike me to avoid an extreme, but it was beyond my current cognitive abilities to follow and i didn't have diarrhea or anything like that. I was already doing paleo for a few weeks, so was only minor changes like making sure bananas are fully ripe, avoiding sweet potatos. I have been having some sweet potatoes when i cook stews. I find it's just not the same without it. And i supplement with a strong probiotic. After a couple of weeks of Kefir, i noticed it having an effect on my WD process. The cassein wasn't being totally predigested as Dr. Natasha said it was, and was stimulating me somehow and making things worse.

 

Hey, how bout those sweet cravings eh? I noticed some other cravings too, like for fried salty potato chips, cheese and bread. For some reason i got the craving right after a decent healthy meal. I don't recall this in previous attempts at Paleo, only while in WD.

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  • 1 month later...

Well it's 4months since i began Paleo and Gaps. Tho to be honest I haven't always stuck to it. A month ago i started a new relationship, and I also traveled interstate to help my brother and his partner as they just had their second baby. Cooking, making cups of tea, waking up in the middle of the night for their 2yr old. Stuff like that. So during all this, i was probably 75% paleo/gaps. The problem with that is, it's really a black and white situation really. You're either on the diet or your not.

 

Some things I noticed, things i learned online, and some theories i have:

It's always struck me as odd that some ppl come off these drugs and have WD for a short while, and then they're back to normal. Others like us, it can take years. I'm at 11months now. At the time I started the new relationship, I was feeling somewhat better and had been very stict with my my diet for some time. I wasn't gung ho with the GAPS protocal. I skipped the intro, and just avoided unripen fruit, potatos and sweet potatoes. It was pretty much a Paleo diet except for those things plus supplementing with good pro biotics. As keeping the diet became more difficult (traveling + staying at new gf house with non paleo foods), my WD symptoms got worse. I have learned that ppl with intestinal permeability allow undigested food particles to get into their blood stream, which sets off the immune system and pro inflammatory cytocines (not sure of the spelling) which can affect the brain with inflammation. My head felt better when i was strict with the diet so I'm wondering if ppl who take a long time to heal, all the inflammatory things in non-paleo diets like sugar, transfats, grains, casein etc are making it difficult for the brain to mend? And could even be the reason why many ppl felt the need to go on anti depressants in the first place.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18580840

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21110802

 

 

I know casein causes a reaction in my body where i become itchy and get a bit red in some places. I need to have a lot of it to make it obvious. I noticed that other things do this as well, but not always as aggressively. Took many years to piece that puzzle together. Gluten's another. Soy is the worse. All these auto immune responses could very well be causing inflammation in my brain also making it harder for it to heal. I have hair loss (thats not hereditory) and acne too in my adult life. Both can be traced to inflammation. Apparently systemic inflammation is common in the modern world. I have had a very bad case of it. Instead of inflammation on the skin etc from non paleo diets (which took 20+yrs to show on me), who's to say the inflammation isn't spread throughout the insides of the body, including the brain? It's so insidious that ppl wouldn't notice the cause and effect.

 

Now, the progress I HAVE made, even not being able to be 100% strict with my diet is, I have a lot more energy. I can get up and be active. Considering i have a recent history (2009-2011) of chronic fatigue, this is very good. Constipation has about 90% resolved thanks to pro biotics, fiber and generally feeling like moving about more. I have gained a few kilos which is very welcomed because i was underweight (technically i still consider myself to be). And a acne problem i had on my chest and back is about 95% resolved also. Was nice to be able to undress around my partner without the shame of body acne. First time in my adult life. Can't wait til summer when i can go to the beach and not be self conscious about my skin. Tho i could do with a few extra pounds to avoid ppl throwing their chips to me instead of the sea gulls.

 

I have decided to end my relationship as it was too difficult for me to commit to it AND commit to healing myself. Eating gluten at her house, or macdonalds on occasion would just make it even easier to not stick to my diet at home. I was eating chocolate a lot and this seems to flare up my WD symptoms too. I'm back on the 100% Paleo/Gaps bandwagon now to test this inflammatory theory and feel commited. I can't know for sure, if I'm regularly setting off my immune system with gluten, casein etc or causing inflammation with things like sugar, transfats omega 6's.

 

I think the body heals as a whole. I've been focused on the gut or brain so much with supplements etc but I'm trying a new perspective. Theoretically, if the body is healing it only makes sense that the brain will have an easier time healing as well.

 

There's lots of Paleo teachers out there. I prefer Robb Wolf personally as he's well educated, brought himself back from very bad health using the diet, and is a little stricter than others with it which is helpful for me or anyone dealing with strong health issues. Mark Sisson is also very popular but he's a little too lenient for my liking. He treats things like dairy, chocolate etc as a gray area. For my body, there is no gray. It's black and white with paleo foods.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I plan to look up Wolf.

 

My gut is so screwed up. That's the formal diagnose, too. My paperwork says, "Gut screwed up, like totally."

 

Conventional docs are hopeless. I could have a serum creatinine of .5 then 24 hrs later it's 1.2 and ... "Good news, you're in range." that's a dumb fake example. But only in its extremity.

 

Gawd, like I have no faith. Saline solution, are you sure that's indicated? Did i say bad things about gaps? We made up. I'm back with NCM. The gaps folks are closest to my needs. Now that I've developed gliadin antibodies, I can't cheat the diet anyway. Plus I have no desire to cheat it, lost sugar cravings. Maybe my body has enough going on and has signaled me that now is not the time to develop autoimmune disorders. Anyway NCM... I gotta roll with someone. Rolling with her, though I'm sticking with toothpaste.

 

Btw, I have a disgusting tongue. I gleefullly look forward to doc asking me to say "ahhhh" so he can adjust his level of intrigue.

 

Anyway, if it takes however, I'm going to get my gut to work again to take the pressure off my kidneys before they get junked.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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BentBuddha

Leaky gut = Leaky brain

 

Dr. Terry Wahl, a remarkable and courageous doctor who overcame multiple sclerosis after being wheelchair-bound with progressively declining health. Today, in the afterglow of an incredible recovery, she maintains a full-time practice, working with patients with brain injuries and psychiatric problems to achieve positive health benefits by altering their diets. Dr. Wahls' evidence-based discoveries are leading to greater insight using food as medicine, giving us a great deal of control over whether we get sick or not.

 

Dr. Wahls is the author of Minding Your Mitochondria: How I Overcame Secondary Progressive Multiple Sclerosis (MS) and Got Out of My Wheelchair and Food And Brain Health. The founder of The Terry Wahls Foundation, she is dedicated to conducting systems-based clinical trials to demonstrate her findings. Her TED Talk last year in Iowa City has been hugely popular, netting over 250,000 views to date.

 

This interview covers a wide array of subjects from the paleo diet, minerals, vitamins, disease prevention and recovery, the blood-brain barrier, the gut, mitochondrial health, molecule-to-molecule research, research funding, and the micronutrients the brain must be fed on a daily basis.

 

Some people talk the talk. This doctor walks the walk. Join us with Dr. Terry Wahls, a living testimonial that food is medicine.

 

 

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Thanks BB.

 

Have you tried to eat this volume of dense foods? I will have to speed up my digestive motor because I otherwise backup if I eat so much.

 

The hamburger I used to order at the local fast food has 1800 calories according to the company website. To get 1800 calories of, say broccoli, asparagus and carrots, I'd have to eat 20 cups (31 per cup)of broccoli, 15 cups (40 per cup) of asparagus and 12 cups (52) of carrots. Not being snippy, but I have problems with motility and refulx. Eaating this huge volume of foods hasn't been possible for a long while. Also, Im just making a point; i've never actually tried to eat 50 cups of vegetables and the video doesn't advise a vegetarian diet... so, I'm just saying.

 

For the record, I do my best around this, and will eventually find a solution. Right now lots of digestive aids, stomach acid, and supplemental 'incentive' for my gut to work. I don't have it down yet which is probably why I am approaching total weight loss of 100 lbs since I stopped antidepressants. (237 high, 150ish today)...

 

Anyway, it's a great video.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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BentBuddha

Heya

 

I just eat as my appetite dictates. I only eat meat at one meal of the day as I too don't have a healthy fire going in my digestive system. Most of the time I have meat as my last meal of the day so I have all night to digest it. I have heard that your digestive fire is at it's peak at lunch time, but still, if it takes 12hrs or so to digest and you drop another meal onto it later, can back things up and lead to gas and feeding the bad gut flora.

 

I think with Dr. Terry her diet is specific for MS sufferers and how to feed their Mitochondria. But she makes some great points in the first video about how Leaky Gut causes 'Leaky Brain' - with the brain inflammation probs that come with it as the immune system is triggered.

 

I don't count calories or anything like that. I just stick to Paleo/GAPS foods and eat as I feel hungry. I used to try to focus on 'gaining', but I've since let that go and focused on healing. My gut and brain health is far more a priority than my size. In my particular situation, I've had some gains in weight without force feeding myself extra calories. And curiously, I once used to supplement with digestive enzymes, digestive bitters etc but I haven't used them or thought about them in a long time. Things just seem two work now. I do supplement with a very good pro biotic with 25bil bacteria in it and with psyllium husk for fibre in the morning. This seems to keep me regular and things moving along just fine. I find daily walks good for building appetite and keeping things regular too.

 

I take 5000IU's of D3

1 table spoon of psyllium husk

1.5g of EPA fish oil

Milk thistle for my liver

Pro Biotics capsule 25bill

 

Not a huge amount of supplementing, but along with my paleo type diet I no longer have any chronic fatigue or muscle weakness issues. That was a huge battle and dark patch in my life that I'm glad to have moved on from. Unfortunately, in the process of looking for ways to increase my energy i was prescribed Lexapro and it's fried my brain. So another dark patch has replaced the one i just climbed out of.

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Thanks for your take, BB.

 

I do more supplementing than I'd like. But I do no more than I think I need.

 

I have been 100% gluten free (I think, I've had 4 salads not made at home so I can't be sure on those) for about 6 weeks. I was drinking herbal teas but I am too sensitive. I've actually been gaining weight but it's from fluid retention. I definitely want to gain weight but not for aesthetic reasons. As my health improves my weight will go up otherwise I am not getting healthier -- i am weak and wasting currently.

 

I hope for a good month of healing.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I was reading the long thread on Gap and paleo diets and thought I'd post a querry specifically on gluten--which can be moved to the other thread if that's more appropriate, but I thought a separate heading might catch people who know about this specifically.

 

So. I was in touch with a pschopharmachologist who doesn't fully get the problem with SSRIs but is pretty open and does alternative approaches. She said that gluten-free diet can "work wonders." Brief email correspondence, she didn't elaborate. From some web perusal, it certainly looks like gluten sensitivity can cause depression. But most people have some digestive symptoms, and I do not. But...it sounds like SOME people can have mood and neurological symptoms with the gut problems.

 

So I'm just wondering if any of you have experience or knowledge of this. Seems like it's worth a try...and I've been gluten-free for a whopping twenty-four hours now. Expect it could take weeks to see if it makes a difference. Of course, depression had actually started to lift the last two days, so that will confound the experiment. But we will see.

 

Thanks for any thoughts,

 

E

1994-2009 50-100 mg Zoloft (plus tried Effexor, Lexapro, Wellbutrin at times)
5/'09-7/'09 taper off Zoloft
7/'09-12/'09 no zoloft, rough times after ~ 2 mos.
1/'10-6/'10 50 mg zoloft
6/'10-1/'11 slow taper
2/'11-7/'11 off entirely, ok for 2-3 mos., then rough
7/'11-9/'11 50 mg
9/15/'11 - 11/15/'11 taper off
11/15/'11 - 2/'11 clean, doing well but with some PSSD
2/'11 - 6/'11 depression creeps back, fairly significant by May.

6/'14 (long time...!)  life is good, full recovery, at least in terms of SSRI addiction.  Still digging out from the social and professional hole that it all left me in, but despite the loss of far too many years to this business I'm basically doing pretty well.  Still some depression at times, even severe on occasion, but clearly related to past trauma and current circumstances, all things that I am continuing to work through and work on.  I'd say it took at least six months and perhaps a year to fully get back to normal (neuro-psychologically and sexually) after the last dose in 2011.

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I've done extensive commentary on the link with gluten and all mental health issues on my blog.

 

Of note: not all sensitivity to gluten is apparent with obvious bad gut issues...people can have problems with gluten and have NORMAL BOWEL MOVEMENTS!

 

I've come to believe now that it's always good to try going gluten free...and if you have really confusing and giant issues do it for a good long time because those of us with multiple sensitivities may not notice the improvement as quickly when there are so many things going on.

 

here are some of my posts on the subject:

 

Gluten Sensitivity Vs. Celiac Disease Vs. Gluten Intolerance

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/06/26/gluten/

 

How does one figure out if they’re gluten intolerant or if they have celiac?

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/06/09/glutenintolerance/

 

Studies show gluten sensitivity in people labeled with schizophrenia and bipolar (and how gluten can effect a lot of us regardless of dx)

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/04/22/glutenmentalhealth/

 

 

Evolutionary Psychiatry: nutrition and mental health

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/01/09/evolutionarypsychiatry-2/

 

I also found this post with a LONG list of clinical studies looking at gluten being implicated in all sorts of things:

 

The Case Against Gluten: For Everyone

http://evolvify.com/the-case-against-gluten-medical-journal-references/

(scroll down for the long list of studies after some commentary from the author)

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Thank you, Gia, for all the good information. I actually found a few of your posts and will have a look at the others. How long would you give it for someone like me who has fairly straightforward depression and no digestive symptoms? THANKS, E

1994-2009 50-100 mg Zoloft (plus tried Effexor, Lexapro, Wellbutrin at times)
5/'09-7/'09 taper off Zoloft
7/'09-12/'09 no zoloft, rough times after ~ 2 mos.
1/'10-6/'10 50 mg zoloft
6/'10-1/'11 slow taper
2/'11-7/'11 off entirely, ok for 2-3 mos., then rough
7/'11-9/'11 50 mg
9/15/'11 - 11/15/'11 taper off
11/15/'11 - 2/'11 clean, doing well but with some PSSD
2/'11 - 6/'11 depression creeps back, fairly significant by May.

6/'14 (long time...!)  life is good, full recovery, at least in terms of SSRI addiction.  Still digging out from the social and professional hole that it all left me in, but despite the loss of far too many years to this business I'm basically doing pretty well.  Still some depression at times, even severe on occasion, but clearly related to past trauma and current circumstances, all things that I am continuing to work through and work on.  I'd say it took at least six months and perhaps a year to fully get back to normal (neuro-psychologically and sexually) after the last dose in 2011.

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you might try doing a 30 day grain free elimination diet of the sort the paleo community gets all into...

 

I've not done it with them because I've done other grueling type elimination diets, but some of the paleo blogs are into something called the Whole 30 or something? I will see if I can find the site...

 

here: http://whole9life.com/2012/01/whole-30-v2012/

 

that would eliminate all the potentially problematic foods (or most of them anyway) and then once you've done the 30 day program you can evaluate what you'd like to do next...

 

you might want to slowly add food back in and see if you are okay with it...

 

because my journey has revealed multiple issues with several foods I wish someone had told me to do a hardcore elimination diet a long time ago...

 

anyway...that is my suggestion...there are other diets out there but it seem that lots of folks do this one rather enthusiastically.

 

I did GAPS and also Body Ecology and then with lots of research I created my own thing...over a few years time...

 

good luck!

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Altostrata

That page on The Case Against Gluten: For Everyone was fascinating.

 

There definitely seems to be an argument for restricting intake of gluten to resolve persistent mood issues.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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So three days of no gluten and depression has lifted significantly. But: it had actually started to lift the day before I started gluten-free, so hard to know for sure. Well, and three days does seem pretty quick for the gluten thing, whereas sometimes depression can lift quickly on its own. Still, encouraging; I will do updates as the experiment progresses.

1994-2009 50-100 mg Zoloft (plus tried Effexor, Lexapro, Wellbutrin at times)
5/'09-7/'09 taper off Zoloft
7/'09-12/'09 no zoloft, rough times after ~ 2 mos.
1/'10-6/'10 50 mg zoloft
6/'10-1/'11 slow taper
2/'11-7/'11 off entirely, ok for 2-3 mos., then rough
7/'11-9/'11 50 mg
9/15/'11 - 11/15/'11 taper off
11/15/'11 - 2/'11 clean, doing well but with some PSSD
2/'11 - 6/'11 depression creeps back, fairly significant by May.

6/'14 (long time...!)  life is good, full recovery, at least in terms of SSRI addiction.  Still digging out from the social and professional hole that it all left me in, but despite the loss of far too many years to this business I'm basically doing pretty well.  Still some depression at times, even severe on occasion, but clearly related to past trauma and current circumstances, all things that I am continuing to work through and work on.  I'd say it took at least six months and perhaps a year to fully get back to normal (neuro-psychologically and sexually) after the last dose in 2011.

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Glad to hear, enuf...

 

I removed gluten a couple months ago entirely. I probably haven't got it all though since I will occasionally (very infrequently) buy some restaurant food.

 

I wish I could say that going gluten has helped. I don't think it has hurt, and plan to stay off it for quite some time. It is difficult to tell because I've had other problems, possibly related to a bad reaction or interaction and I've been really spun out.

 

Ive read Gia's posts on her site about gluten and I endorse her view. Many of us, either originally or due to medications, have suboptimal gut integrity which seems to frequently (sometimes silently) induce a huge range of health problems, including severe problems such as many (possibly the vast majority) autoimmune conditions.

 

Maybe a good rule of thumb in withdrawal or if a person feels depressed or anxious might just be don't eat crap. We all know crap when we eat it, I think. For many, a piece of bread made from nonGMO and whole food ingredients may not be so bad. I don't think the French are a sickly nation and their staples are bread, cheese and wine. My understanding is that their grains are less engineered and they produce food with less of an industrial mentality.

 

Unfortunately, we use a lot of crap ingredients to mass produce food for 300 million here in America

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Maybe a good rule of thumb in withdrawal or if a person feels depressed or anxious might just be don't eat crap. We all know crap when we eat it, I think. For many, a piece of bread made from nonGMO and whole food ingredients may not be so bad. I don't think the French are a sickly nation and their staples are bread, cheese and wine. My understanding is that their grains are less engineered and they produce food with less of an industrial mentality.

 

Hi Alex and enuf. I agree.. get rid of processed foods. I've just come off a 10 month diet during which I lost 60 lbs. The first thing to go was processed carbs.. and I've felt better as a result. Bravo for your decision.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I'm more cautious of saturated fats, especially animal fats with my taxedout liver. Value that bit as you see fit.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I'm more cautious of saturated fats, especially animal fats with my taxedout liver. Value that bit as you see fit.

 

Is this because of experience or because you believe what you've been told about saturated fats? I'd go by your own body's reaction and experience. There's some question as to whether or not what we're being told about the dangers of saturated fats is true. But I'm presuming you know this since you've read the GAPS book.

 

Anyway, for sure vegetable oils are not as safe and wonderful as we were once told they were, especially if you cook with them.

 

I have no problem (sigh...) getting enough calories to keep me fat and happy eating lots of vegetables, because I like my veggies with butter (if cooked) or olive oil (raw). But I don't have any serious gut issues.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I'm more cautious of saturated fats, especially animal fats with my taxedout liver. Value that bit as you see fit.

 

Is this because of experience or because you believe what you've been told about saturated fats? I'd go by your own body's reaction and experience. There's some question as to whether or not what we're being told about the dangers of saturated fats is true. But I'm presuming you know this since you've read the GAPS book.

 

It's from my experience.

 

I have problems digesting fats. My liver isn't ruined but it's not in ideal shape either. I say about the fats because no everyone can handle a high fat diet, at least not without optimizing organ function (stomach, pancreas, gallbladder, liver)... if you can't you may end up with a further dysfunctioning liver/gallbladder and/or subcutaneous pearls or lumps of fat around the eyes, nose and/or extremeties called xanthomas (which i have developed).

 

GAPS recommends juicing, juicing with added egg and cream as well as organic coffee enemas to detox the liver to assist it with the diet. I mostly have not done those three things and have reasons for which I decided against each. If others are so able and so willing, I'd be interested to learn of the experience with the GAPS liver detox protocol. I am mainly focusing on reducing the stress on my organs with certain antifungal treatments, Betaine HCl, ox bile, liver supplements (premier's ND B, NAC, ALA, antioxidant vtamins with selenium)... I see an integrative doctor and recommend anyone with suboptimal organ function follow the advice of a medical professional. (EDIT: Critical to this: Your doctor must not suck. You'd think this would rarely be an issue....sadly....)

 

I have a lot more GI and internal organ dysfunction than most do, evidently. This has been my biggest problem for about 18 months. I eat a lot of saturated fats, actually, but I'm very cautious about how I go about it.

 

As I say, value this bit as you see fit

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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It's funny how everyones body behaves so differently. I had chronic fatigue for almost 3yrs because of severe liver congestion, yet these days I cook all my food in ghee and very generously. It's had zero effect on my liver function.

 

Dr Natasha in one of her talks says that ppl with 'leaky gut' can get a congested liver because of all the undigested food particles getting through the gut wall and into the blood stream, making the liver work so hard. I used to try all these ways to cleanse my liver, but seems GAPS/Paleo diets just do the trick for me without having to focus on the liver. I shudder to think back at all those olive oil and grape fruit liver cleanses I did that made me feel great for a couple of days and then back to square one.

 

I wish I had access to all this info when I was younger. The youth of today may be bombarded with just as much crap food as we were (I'm 36), but at least they have the internet to have access to all this incredible information.

 

I am weary about GAPS being so dairy friendly sometimes. The only way I found out that my gut isnt' healed properly yet is because if i drink over 1ltr of milk, i start to get an auto immune response of itchy skin. Anything under 1ltr doesn't show any obvious signs. If i eat or drink soy products, it's much more obvious. So, ppl could be adding dairy into their diet prematurely and not know it's holding back their progress. Say if they just ate cheese and butter and a glass of milk a day for example.

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I have problems with unfermented dairy as well. Suspect my fungi like to dig on lactose

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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BB, thanks for that Terry Wahl video. Very inspiring. I already eat almost as many veggies and fruit as she recommends (well, I could have kept my hand up for two plates full) but I have trouble finding organ meats and 100% grass-fed meat, I don't eat seaweed, I don't eat enough wild-caught fish, and I don't eat enough greens. I'll be working on those things. Of all the things we can do, eating more fruits and vegs is one that I can't really see a downside to.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Are you guys still following paleo/GAPS?

 

I started GAPS myself about 2 months ago and have found it very stressful to implement, but I'm getting better at it.

One thing I am concerned about though is low blood sugar levels. I lack a lot of energy on GAPS and find I'm constantly needing to eat protein like eggs to stay functioning, but still I feel low. I plan to get a blood sugar monitor soon, as I suspect I may be hypoglycemic.

I've read on some sites that low carb diets can make hypoglycemia worse, so I'm wondering how to up the carbs. It's difficult because I have trouble with many fruits, and some vegetables, and of course grains are a no-no on GAPS.

 

I'm also wondering if withdrawal has caused the hypoglycemia, or if I've had it all along.

Has anyone else had blood sugar problems caused by withdrawal? I know stress can have an effect.

 

Nutrition and health can be so confusing :(

Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

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I found I do better with some yams and sweet potatoes which is not allowed on the GAPS diet...

I did GAPS hardcore for several months and have continued experimenting and now am on a diet that I've designed for myself with GAPS in mind and Paleo and the work of Chris Kresser and Donna Gates (body ecology) and others...

 

I also added green plantains which are really wonderful...when they're green they are not sweet at all and if you boil them, mash them and add ghee or whatever fat you tolerate and some garlic and herbs they are very much like mashed potatoes...and they cause me no problems and in fact help me feel better.

 

it's always good to learn what your particular bodies needs are and I do that by carefully experimenting with a large range of whole foods and don't stick to any dogma religiously.

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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You guys may want to take a look at this one: The Biorhythm Diet.

 

Børge Fagerli is a coach and a personal trainer and this article is tailored mainly to bodybuilders, but I believe the principles are applicable to anyone. Don't get scared :).

 

He is a VERY knowledgeable guy regards to nutrition and always back up his claims with solid science, and also he has a ton of real-world experience after years of coaching and nutritional counseling.

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I found I do better with some yams and sweet potatoes which is not allowed on the GAPS diet...

I did GAPS hardcore for several months and have continued experimenting and now am on a diet that I've designed for myself with GAPS in mind and Paleo and the work of Chris Kresser and Donna Gates (body ecology) and others...

 

I also added green plantains which are really wonderful...when they're green they are not sweet at all and if you boil them, mash them and add ghee or whatever fat you tolerate and some garlic and herbs they are very much like mashed potatoes...and they cause me no problems and in fact help me feel better.

 

it's always good to learn what your particular bodies needs are and I do that by carefully experimenting with a large range of whole foods and don't stick to any dogma religiously.

 

Interesting, thanks Gia I may have to try some green plantain myself!

I agree with you about not sticking to any particular dogma. I find it so easy get a bit OCD about these things and tend to stress about it and get confused.

 

Have you heard of the FODMAPS diet? It's basically about eliminating certain foods containing fructans that can cause bloating and IBS symptoms.

I've had to cut out garlic and onions because they were giving me a hard time, and brocoli leaves me bloated too.

Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

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yes...I recently did a post on FODMAPS...

 

here it is:

 

Heal your IBS (irritable bowel syndrome): heal your body and mind

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/07/18/heal-your-ibs/

 

I don't have a problem with those foods thank god...I've got enough issues with all sorts of other foods!!

 

dogma is not a good thing, yes...but I have to say sticking to stuff with discipline long enough to learn what your body is doing is very important!! that can seem dogmatic for some people...but it's not...it's about learning!!

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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When i get cravings I eat ripe bananas or have a herbal tea with honey in it. You can also try eating more fat. I cook with ghee and I'm very generous with it. Avacado in salads. Extra Virgin Olive oil.

 

I think WD is what causes blood sugar issues. Don't quote me on it tho as I've seen no scientific stuff about it. It's just i've noticed in WD I can get some insane cravings for bread, lollies, potato fries etc. I'm guessing it's because of serotonin receptors being damaged and our brain is starving for the experience of some serotonin? These foods typically trigger a serotonin release. Just my guess

 

Recently I've been doing an experiment with an electronic device with some success: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2245-electrical-therapeutic-devices-for-mood-etc/

 

This thing has really lifted my mood which is great. However, it has make me a little too relaxed about my diet so I've well and truly fallen off the bandwagon with the Paleo/Gaps thing. My intention is to get back on track starting today as my skin is starting to get acne on it again which is a sign that all the hard work I did on healing my leaky gut is starting to be undone.

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I found I do better with some yams and sweet potatoes which is not allowed on the GAPS diet...

 

I feel the same way. I probably said something about this somewhere in this thread.

 

Great tip about green plantains.

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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dogma is not a good thing, yes...but I have to say sticking to stuff with discipline long enough to learn what your body is doing is very important!! that can seem dogmatic for some people...but it's not...it's about learning!!

 

Agreed! I think learning what is best for us individually is the wisest approach, which takes trial and error.

 

I'm currently in error-mode.

 

I made some chicken broth yesterday and had a bad reaction to it. After some research I found that broths release free glutamic acid in the meat, which can be a problem for those sensitive to glutamates (like MSG). (and glutamate is a problem in withdrawal, according to Alto?) I've also had a bad reaction to the supplement l-glutamine before.

 

Apparently cooking broth for less time means less glutamic acid, so I may try that at some point.

Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

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I think WD is what causes blood sugar issues. Don't quote me on it tho as I've seen no scientific stuff about it. It's just i've noticed in WD I can get some insane cravings for bread, lollies, potato fries etc. I'm guessing it's because of serotonin receptors being damaged and our brain is starving for the experience of some serotonin? These foods typically trigger a serotonin release. Just my guess

 

 

Makes sense really! And no doubt all the extra stress withdrawal induces makes it much worse. And of course stress affects the immune system.

I think it's all interlinked in some way.

 

Hmm, that bio-tuner thing is interesting!

Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

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My sugar cravings are very strong. I get frustrated with myself for having them.

 

I've always had them, but I was able to go on a diet and lose weight right away. It's different now. It's like a serious addiction to sugar.

 

It probably is the meds :o

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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withdrawal seems to exacerbate blood sugar issues, yes...but the drugs also create them to begin with...so as long as we're on them it's a rougher ride...you gotta go easy on yourselves...it's a process...healing...

 

off drugs now for a couple of years I rarely have food cravings of any sort...and in fact now I trust my cravings and eat what I want (since it's not bad food) and I don't over eat....the "craving" ends very quickly...no risk of binging...

 

quite nice.

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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