SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diets

[GiaK]

hey...check this out...

 

this psychiatrist (Judy Tsafrir MD) is lovely and humble enough to learn from an ex-patient:

 

 

Histamine Intolerance, GAPS and Low Carb

http://judytsafrirmd.com/histamine-intolerance-gaps-and-low-carb/

 

and yeah, the histamine thing seems to apply to a lot of different people

[Narcissus]

^Hadn't heard about the histamine thing, interesting.

 

I've been on the Paleo diet for a week. For the first few days I felt great, more energetic and hopeful. The past few days on the other hand have been downright awful. I have no idea what's going on, or how much the diet is really responsible for. It may be that the change has destabilized me, or it could be that it was just time for a bad flare-up. Either way, very frustrated at the moment. I should note that despite all the symptoms I do feel a kind of lightness in my body that's difficult to describe, and I'm almost positive I'm losing weight.

[GiaK]

sometimes there is healing crisis that passes associated with GAPS...if it doesn't pass then you need to think about what else it might be...

[Roads]

I eventually give paleo a try. I doubt it is a perfect diet, but it seems very sensible, scientific-friendly, and a good basis for a healthful way of eating. By the way, tanks a lot alexjice for mentionng the perfect health diet, it is just gold. I ordered the book.

I am also interested a lot in people who have failed on paleo or tweaked it, not to dissmiss it, but to come nearer and nearer of a perfect way of eating (albeit I doubt it is earthly), and avoid its possibles shortages (even if I think a lot of good of this diet). So, alexjice, i would love from you to lay out what is your current diet, and to keep us informed of your experimentation and progress in this field, if it doesn't bother you too much. It would be of a great help.

 

Regarding the nuts issue, I found this very interesting paleo article about the harm of high consumption of nuts (the main reasons are the high content of polyunsaturated fats and the same toxins that are found in grains/legumes, though macadamia nuts and low amount of brazilian nuts seem to be okay). I know it is basic information, but just in case:

 

http://paleodietlifestyle.com/are-nuts-and-seeds-healthy/

[GiaK]

there is no such thing as the perfect diet...one can, however, work towards finding what is optimal for themselves at any given time...for me that changes...so my diet is always changing. I view diets like paleo and others as guidelines...it helps one get started towards finding what works for them.

[Roads]

that is wisdom :)I just regret finding what's good for you is so difficult!

[alexjuice]

I have found diet so important in my case. I really can't state it strongly enough. I hope everyone who is not feeling 100% tries basic dietary modifications and records their progress. I've been amazed by what I've found for myself.

 

Good luck to all,

Alex

[alexjuice]

So, alexjice, i would love from you to lay out what is your current diet, and to keep us informed of your experimentation and progress in this field, if it doesn't bother you too much. It would be of a great help.

 

I hesitate to outline everything I do because, like Gia said, everyone is different.

 

Ideally I aim to:

 

1. Avoid my problem foods: grains, peanuts, alcohol, processed foods. (Alcohol I specifically avoid b/c of benzos and bc it's reactive for me after mold exposure.)

2. Poop daily

3. Blood sugar under 140 always

4. Eat other proteins besides muscle meat: organic eggs, organic animal organs, bone marrow, broths (I don't eat eggs right now bc I'm reacting to them)

5. Take notes. Some symptoms are worse on higher carbs, other on more fat.

 

I really like the perfecthealthdiet site because there's a lot of meaty stuff with links and cites. I also like that the author avails himself to questions from people like me.

[compsports]

Well, in some situations it seems to take me forever to learn a lesson. But after once again falling asleep prematurely due to too many carbs which messed up my sleep, hopefully, I am finally realizing I need to make some changes.

 

Not sure if I am going to do a strict paleo or lean more towards a Perfect Health type diet. If I go in the direction of the PHD, any carbs I eat will not be until before bedtime and they will be ones that allegedly help with sleep like bananas.

 

I won't be eating the sweet potatoes they allow because I have simply have never been able to get any enthusiasm for eating them. Just not appealing.

 

Those of you who have stuck to a very low carb diet or banned them, how has it affected your sleep? I have heard positive and negative stories on paleo board.

 

I do eat cheese but limit it to the morning when I also take allergy supplements that seem to prevent me from having reactions like clogged sinuses that normally would result from eating dairy. My teeth seem happier.

[GiaK]

hi comsports...

 

Just want to suggest that once you go low carb and really cut out sugars etc...you may want to revisit sweet potatoes...they became very delicious to me once I cleaned out my system...prior to that, they hadn't impressed me either

 

and if you get to that point and you're interested I can help with lots of different ways to eat them

[compsports]

hi comsports...

 

Just want to suggest that once you go low carb and really cut out sugars etc...you may want to revisit sweet potatoes...they became very delicious to me once I cleaned out my system...prior to that, they hadn't impressed me either

 

and if you get to that point and you're interested I can help with lots of different ways to eat them

 

Thanks GiaK. Very interesting that you had a similar experience.

 

I will take you up on that offer at some point.

[compsports]

Just tried 1/8 teaspoon of Glutamine to deal with the severe carb cravings and it is working very well. But to be very cautious, I will limit myself to just this one time dose after getting adverse reactions from harmless supplements.

 

Wanted to mention that in case someone else was in a similar situation.

 

CS

[mammaP]

This is very interesting. I was in psych hospital 20 years ago

and was telling the staff that wheat was killing me. They said I was paranoid

and didn't believe for a second that it could cause depression or mood swings.

I've tried gluten free many times but found that even gluten free products

seemed to make me ill so stopped trying. I am definitely going to try the 30day

whole9 diet, hopefully will make DS a bit better too.

Will start Tuesday as can't get to the shops till then.

[Meimeiquest]

I think gluten makes me really tired. I had a blood test which was positive for gluten and casein, but I didn't feel stopping them made a difference. When I went to a holistic dr., he made me do a 6 week elimination diet. With that, I could see a big difference. I don't have gut issues. Some think inflammation from the gluten leads to inflammation of the blood-brain barrier, which lets in substances that are toxic to the brain. Fire in the gut, fire in the brain. Gluten sensitivity and celiac disease are two separate things.

[mammaP]

I now have my book, will read through it and get rid of all banned stuff.

There is a health food shop across the street and they will order anything

only trouble is it's very expensive . Fresh veg will be a problem, the

local supermarkets here don't stock very much they are quite small

and sadly we don't have any greengrocers left. Willing to give it a whirl,

will give anything a try!

[Narcissus]

I've been trying the paleo diet again over the past few days, and wham, had another bad flare-up.  This time I'm sure it isn't a coincidence, something about kicking the carbs out of my diet is truly upsetting my withdrawal ravaged body.  What's going on in there that could have made me so fiercely dependent on carbohydrates?

[GiaK]

I don't know...some things are better done very slowly...or the body could be detoxing...or you might be going into ketosis which can also knock people for a loop but sometimes normalize and then feel far better...there is usually some sweet spot for everyone...and the amount of carb ultimately can be on quite a large spectrum...quality of carbs also matter of course...

 

unfortunately there is no single answer...ongoing experimentation and paying attn will help you figure out what your body likes and needs but you may still have no answer as to why! that's how it goes for me...it sure can be crazy making

[Altostrata]

From personal experience, I can say Gia is right.

 

Going low-salt and "paleo" aggravated my borderline sodium and threw me into a low-sodium condition, hyponatremia. I've been very sick from this for more than a week. There's a reason some of us like our food salty!

 

In addition, if you have reactive hypoglycemia, complex carbs can be helpful.

 

Going paleo may not be for everyone. Phase in any dietary changes in very gradually, over weeks.

[areyouthere]

I've been having bloating & ran that but a natural path and she suggested the connection. Just curious. And if yes... what helped?

[GiaK]

those of us who use dietary means to help us heal tend to run into the leaky gut theory a lot. There is a long thread on here that deals with GAP and SCD diets etc...diets that heal the gut. 

 

that thread is here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/890-scdgapspaleo-diets/?hl=paleo 

 

there are other threads on probiotics, histamine and all sorts of other related things too

 

I've written extensively on my blog about gut healing too. here is a link to that collection:  http://beyondmeds.com/gut-health/

[alexjuice]

Revisiting this topic, I looked at the GAPS FAQ by Dr Natasha and I found it wanting. Dr NCM places too much of an influence on the body's intuitive instinct to know what it wants. However it has been demonstrated that many external forces cause cravings and desires for things that are not in the body's best interest. From my own experience, after reducing benzodiazepines I am often struck with movement compulsions or food cravings. I believe these are not healthy and I would not be craving them except that I was poisoned by a toxic medication.

 

The inability to trust the body to lead me is a HUGE realization. Muscle testing has been very important for me to see what I really want and what the disease really wants which are not the same thing at all in my case.

 

Another qualm I have with NCM is her belief that pathogens are allowed to flourish in the body (by the body) because the pathogens do clean-up and detox work that a sick body is unable to do. Some truth may lie in this idea but I think it's largely mistaken. Pathogenic organisms arre out for their our survival and reproductive succcess. Except in a religious or spiritual notion that deifies 'the body' I don't think it is accurate to say things like 'yeast is present because the body needs it to be present to degrade mercury' or things like this that NCM says frequently. I think yeast is out for itself and it prospers in sick people no because it has a useful purpose but because the body of sick people is far too weak to eradicate it. She repeats the same thing about the benefits of parasites and so ... This idea is not entirely false IMO but it's far more false than true and weirdly pseudo-religious which is why it is believed in the first place depsite being more false than true ... IMO

 

My suspicion is that GAPS may be useful for autism but that as an overall spiritual philosophy and general health protocol it is too specific and is likely to not help or worsen a number of conditions...

 

Has anyone done GAPS protocol? I started it but never could make it very far due to food cravings and intolerances. Some other folks I know experimented with it but I am not sure if anyone was ever 100% GAPS compliant for an extended trial. Please share you experience if you have done GAPS.

 

Thanks.

[GiaK]

I did GAPS for a long time (a couple of years more or less)...being I'm histamine intolerant it made many things worse...still I do think it also helped me in some ways...and I did learn to listen to my body...I don't have a problem with that analogy...listening to the body needs to be done in tandem with listening to everything else we have access to...in the end as we heal the body becomes more and more clear on it's own...granted these very critical nuances are not covered by Dr. NCM. 

[alexjuice]

Gia,

I think you've done the GAPs the longest of anyone I know of. Thanks for sharing your input. I do find good in the protocol. For me the best good was helping me to realize many many of the base assumptions of medicine and culture are assumptions and not fact and that to find the truth I can challenge these assumptions, test them and find things out for myself... very beneficial in that regard.

 

I do also understand where you are coming from about listening to one's body especially about the signals getting more clear as health improves. I find overall that the signals from the body haven't been reliable enough in my case. I may still be learning to hear the right signal and differentiate the noise however I have working at this a long time and I still do not have it down...

 

What has frustrated me is that I've had my own detours that could have been avoided but I'd come to fully believe I was following my own best interest. I suppose today I see how easy it is for me to have my sense of what I want influenced, not in a nefarious way, such that I get off course. Suggestion is very powerful and some of NCM's technique's seem suggestive of a world view that may only sometimes be rooted in how things are...

 

Of course, it's a better than the SAD and at worst it is terribly useful just for diagnostic purposes. FOr instances perhaps a person with histamine intolerance slowly pieces together the facts of the condition based on reflecting on reactions to the main diet components which are foods entirely outside of SAD. In my case I thing that perfect health diet, which I like more than GAPS overall, has been very helpful as a diagnostic tool. I did very poorly on the rice and starches, for instance, which fact (and knowing to look for it) has helped me to narrow down more root issues...

 

This journey is long and I am glad for the good folks I have come to share it with.

 

Alex

[alexjuice]

The last two months have been horrific. I believe autoimmunity is contributing to my bone loss, endocrine damage, joint pain and the rest...

 

Severe allergies, inflammation, intestinal damage ... I am going to try GAPS from the intro... I will skip the eggs and garlic because I am allergic to both. I will take probiotic powder to help limit yeasts in home ferments b/c of mold but otherwise I will do the intro...

 

I am praying to be able to stick to this diet for 7 days... I hope to stay on it for a few months but I am too weak willed to think beyond a week...

 

Tomorrow... Stock pot soup (chicken)... Stock pot soup (winter squash)... Water, lemon, meditate, pray and hope for the best...

 

I can't believe I was anti-GAPS 2 months ago... I am suffering from gut and psychology syndrome obviously...

[alexjuice]

Also I intend to eat 8 cups of vegetables a day but I may take a bit to work up. I've been eating tons of veggies for the last 3 months, want to back off a bit... 6-8 cups a day will be good.

 

I like beets, squash and carrot as carb sources for now... Honey later on, maybe

 

....

If anyone knows of any GAPS recipe sites -- or just good paleo/alt-diet recipe sites I can fix the recipes to match my intolerances -- please post a suggestion...

 

Thanks

Alex

[Meimeiquest]

I use FB Just Eat Real Food, or google paleo and whatever food you hope to make. I think it is supposedly critical that the bones for the broth be pasture fed. There's a recipe for making broth in a crock pot, and just adding water as you go till you 've cooked the minerals right out of the bone, could be a week, but the smell of cooking chicken kept waking me up in the night thinking I left something on the stove. Also, I think a tbsp. of organic raw apple vinegar is supposed to help with the leeching.

 

I love the cookbook Nourishing Traditions.

 

I don't know what all is going on with you, Alex, but I think GAPS is a good idea. You also might try some veggie juicing along with it? She recommends a half and half mixture of (raw) honey and pastured butter for food cravings. With the dairy issue, you could probably substitute coconut oil or make your own ghlee (with your boundless energy). Good luck! I wish neither you nor I had to even have a clue what all these concepts mean!

[alexjuice]

My GAPS trial is off to a lousy start. I am not digesting the broths well and they are too fatty. I chillden some broth overnight and skimmed fat but already made some soup with squash that came out too fatty...

 

Focusing on eating cooked vegetables right now... Definitely think food intolerances are related to bone and joint issues

[mammaP]

I have to change my diet. I have a problem with yeast and have cut out sugars, yeast, mushrooms

etc, take psyllium and a probiotic capsule  (cant remember the name) plus caprylic acid to kill the yeast.

I've been on the diet (a bit haphazard) for a few weeks and supps just a week. Now I am craving sugar

like crazy!  I've just been searching and found conflicting stuff on the net, so looked here and found this

thread. I think I'm going to go with the GAPS, it'll be a challenge but will give it a whirl. The hardest thing

is that I live in quite a rural area, not a great choice of fresh produce so it will take a lot of effort. 

I have been on an acid blocker for 20 + years and intended to taper it after the AD but think I might

start tapering it now. Should I wait until I am off the acid blocker to start the new diet? 

 

I do this all the time, start a diet and end up back in bad habits again, it is quite rural here and not much

choice with fresh produce but will give it a try. 

[alexjuice]

Try it and let us know how it goes. Try to do it exactly because most people -- including me -- start it and then do it 85% and pick and choose.

 

GAPS diet doesn't work well for me right now. Like most w/ my specific infections I take 5-700 carb calories from potatoes, purple potatoes, swt potatos, rice and so on. But if you increase fats and lower carbs and have worsening symptoms that information is diagnostic.

 

I also recommend organic bones and meats for soups and broths. I also try to get organic meats but I believe for bones and liver/kidney (if you eat those) organic is a must. If you can get that stuff from a trusted source that you know, at a farmers market for instance, be ideal.

 

I've found out so much by studying my reactions to different diets. Good luck

[mammaP]

Thanks Alex. that's very helpful. There is a good butcher across the road but not sure how much organic 

meat he has. He has a chain of shops and his own farm so we know the cattle are grass fed but not sure 

if he has organic. I will go there on Monday and see what he has. I do like liver and can understand why

it needs to be organic.  I tried the atkins diet many moons ago and the first week or so I struggled with it

and felt ill but after that I felt much better. I couldn't keep it up though with a family to feed and ended up

back to the usual. I don't eat a lot of 'junk' food but when I get down and tired I grab carbs because it's quick

and that sets off a cycle again. I end up eating too much carbs and sugar, the more I eat the more I need!

 

I am determined to do it this time. I've done ok so far and now feel ill like I did the first week on Atkins, but

today I read that by eating carbs the candida will just come back.  So I am going for GAPS and hopefully

will be able to stick with it. 

[mammaP]

I am finding it hard to stick with the diet because there isn't much choice here. 

Following the candida diet is cutting a lot of stuff out that is processed, even stock cubes

have yeast in them. Fruit and veg are limited, cut out the root veg and legumes, and there

isn't much left in the shops except cabbage and sprouts! 

 

I am lactose intolerant and yoghurt makes my stomach bad so any suggestions for pro

biotics would be welcome. I really need to sort my gut, it has been really bad recently,

it's been worse since I started the candida diet, 'toxic die off' apparently.  I usually

eat porridge to settle it but even that is aggravating things. 

 

All suggestions gratefully received.

[Petunia]

similar topics merged

[LoveandLight]

Hi

 

I'm looking for anyone that can give an account of depression being improved or cured by eliminating certain foods..

 

Was it trial and error or did you have tests done?

 

I think dairy might be making me depressed..but the strange thing is I'm almost frightened to try incase I find that it is not that. I've covered all other bases. The depression is marked by fatigue and unlike WD depression there are no strong suicidal thoughts but a want to live and get over it!

 

Thanks.

[Meimeiquest]

I think the beginning for me was gluten and casein allergies. Sometimes the allergies can be caused by excessive cortisol production as too much cortisol damages the "cement" between cells in the intestine. Everything is interconnected. I had IgG testing to confirm it, but it's not really necessary. Many say those tests are not very helpful and don't correlate well to people's actual needs. But sometimes it can help with motivation to stick with the right dietary practices. Those who don't think the testing is valuable recommend elimination diets. GAP or paleo autoimmune diets are examples of those. There are several threads around here on fool sensitivities and gut healing. Fatigue has been my main problem as well...I think the idea that fatigue equals depression really needs to be re-evaluated.

[LoveandLight]

Have you noticed slight improvements or good improvements?

[Meimeiquest]

I have done several interventions, so it is hard to know exactly what has done what. But I am doing much better, just trying to get through the WD stuff. Back in the beginning, I am 100% sure all my symptoms could have been managed by diet (maybe some supplements) and exercise. I totally expect to get back to that point, except I think I may have some permanent stress vulnerabilities from the stresses of taking and going off all these drugs. But that is manageable even now, so I expect it to be manageable later.