Mufdaski: Rebound anxiety / Depression, chronic withdrawal

[Mufdaski]

I had a very bad reaction to Brintellix, worsened anxiety and depression and being chronically emotional.  I tapered off the Brintellix, and started to feel better, but am still suffering some withdrawal.  I am not sure if it is ok to be on the Dopaquel ( Quetiapine) on it's own without the anti-depressant as I am told it is used in conjunction with anti depressants.  I feel weak and dizzy and afraid, unable to cope with stress sudden stressful situation which has just arisen.

I would like to come off the dopaquel as well, but don't want to do too much at once.  

I was told I am probably suffering rebound depression / anxiety from being constantly changed from one anti-depressant to another due to lack of positive results.

I need to know if I am on the right track as I have been on medication for years and am not bipolar.  My depression was all circumstantial.

I would really appreciate any advice.  It seems the withdrawal from Dopaquel can be extremely severe.

[Fresh]

Hi  Mufdaski , welcome to the site.

 

Could you provide a little more information for us?     e.g. how long have you been taking quetiapine (seroquel) , and at what doses?

What antidepressants have you taken , at what doses?  when did you stop?  how did you come to stop?   any other medications?  

Perhaps you can fill out your signature for us. 

 

The right track is to get you off unnecessary meds in a safe way , and you'll get lots of help with that here.

Withdrawal from antidepressants and quetiapine can be severe , and the idea is to try and avoid that at all costs.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[Petunia]

Welcome from me too Mufdaski, I'm sorry you are still not feeling well after coming off an antidepressant. As Fresh has mentioned, we do need a few more details about your medication history. Here are instructions for how to put this information in your signature:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

Don't worry about being on Dopaquel by itself for now, it may actually be cushioning some of the antidepressant withdrawal symptoms, including protecting your ability to sleep.

 

Everyone is different with regard to how difficult it is to come of psychiatric drugs and quetiapine doesn't have a reputation for being harder than others, especially if you taper safely. I expect that you will be able to come off it without too many problems if you wait until you are fully recovered from your previous withdrawal and if you taper carefully.

 

Once you get back to us with more details about your drug history and situation, we will be in a better position to offer support and suggestions.

 

Petunia.

[Mufdaski]

Thank you Petunia and Fresh for your responses.  I have put my signature with more details. I have been on Dopaquel (Quetiapine) since the beginning of last year and put as much information as I can in my signature.

I am a lot better now than I was, and know I need to wait until the withdrawal of the anti depressants to subside before I try and stop the dopaquel.  I just seem to backslide when something stressful happens.  This last weekend was stressful and the brain zaps got really bad and my anxiety started up again. Not as bad as on the Brintellix though.   Looking forward to your responses and advice / support.

Thank you again 

[Fresh]

Thanks for doing your sig Mufdaski . . . that is a lot of meds!

 

How long ago did you stop Brintellex?  

 

As Petunia said , there's no problem taking quetiapine on it's own.

 

Try reading some threads in the Tapering section , e.g "Why Taper By 10%"  and "Tips for Tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine)".

 

Best to wait till symptoms like brain zaps have stopped completely before tapering anything else.

 

  

[Mufdaski]

Thanks Fresh, I stopped taking the Brintellix almost one month ago. Just feeling a bit overwhelmed with my current extremely stressful circumstances and the way I am feeling in coming off the meds.  I have used the anti-depressants as a crutch for so long, so finding it tough. 

[mammaP]

Hi Mufdaski, I am not surprised you are feeling unwell after the number of drugs you have been prescribed in such a short time. 

You are obviously very sensitive to psychotropic drugs and yet your doctor just keeps giving you more! 

 

I agree that you should not start to taper another drug yet, you need to allow your poor brain some time to adjust  before starting another taper. 

 

I am glad you didn't collect the serif, you've had enough and need to stabilise. I really feel for you and hope that you start to get more stable very soon. 

We would usually recommend reinstating a tiny dose of the last AD but that would depend on how long you were taking it, and if you had a reaction to it. 

 

Withdrawal makes it harder to cope with things and we have a topic on non drug ways to deal with emotional problems here, you may find some suggestions 

helpful for your current situation. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Mufdaski.

 

It sounds like you've been on and off so many drugs, your nervous system finally became hyper-sensitized to anything stimulating, as antidepressants tend to be.

 

Were you treated with antibiotics for h. pylori? Those can also trigger strong feelings of anxiety and general unwellness.

 

If I were you, I'd hold on the quetiapine and Xanor SR for a good while and work on stabilizing your nervous system. Please see our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions.

[Mufdaski]

Thank you all for your comments advice and support.  I really do feel as though my system has become hypersensitive to ad's.

 

Yes I was on a lot of very strong antibiotics for the h-pylori.  It doesn't go away easily.

 

I will continue with the Xanor SR and Quetiapine until I feel much better.

 

I have a really hectic work schedule coming up in a couple of weeks.  I have to work a 14 hour day followed by a 17 hour day and am really scared about the way I am feeling and managing those hours.

 

Thanks for the link. I will look at it very soon. 

[Mufdaski]

I was wondering if anyone following this thread have been given pur blokas for anxiety.

 

I had a really bad day on Monday, fell to pieces.  I ended up going to a crisis centre in my area for counselling and assistance as I felt so bad.  The anxiety was just too much. I had a long chat to a really lovely lady who said that pur blokas really help her with anxiety and in her experience is a good way to go, but she said I should ween myself back on to the anti depressants. 

 

So on Tuesday morning I went to my GP and told him how I was suffering and what the lady at the crisis centre advised.  He gave me a prescription for 10mg tabs of Propranolol (Purbloka) to take one in he morning and one at lunch time and said to see how I go, that if necessary I should start a small dose of the ad's. 

Wow, I felt amazing, the anxiety went out of the window and with no anxiety I felt great, no depression or sadness. I felt as though this was the answer and all I needed was something to stop the anxiety and I will be ok. 

The next day was great too, but then I woke up this morning and the anxiety was back.  The purbloka just didn't work today and I feel as though I am back to square one.

 

I know I am still suffering withdrawal from the AD's, but really don't want to wean myself back on to them as I have never felt good whilst taking them. They make me more anxious.   I have always been quite a nervous person, but these last 2 years have been terrible.

 

I just don't know where to go from here.  I feel as though I am living a nightmare and trying to do it alone with no one to turn to is just too much to bear.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?

[Mufdaski]

Hi,

 

Can someone help me  please. I have been trying to read peoples threads to see what withdrawal symptoms are being experienced, but don't see any the same as mine.  I have this horrible loud high pitched ringing in my head / blocked ears sensation.  I have a fuzzy headed feeling all the time.  I had such a bad reaction to the Brintellix that I didn't taper long enough.  I don't know if my symptoms are withdrawal or something else and if it will ever end. 

My GP doesn't seem to know what's potting and just wants to put me back onto stronger AD's.

I don't know where to go from here or if going back on AD's and trying to taper will help or even which AD's to go back on as I have been on so many, none of which really helped.

I just want to feel normal, but don't know how to get there or if i'm on the right track.

I seem to be overcoming the chronic anxiety, but do get bouts sometimes.  I don't feel I can do any more, but don't know who to turn to for help as the psychiatrists and doctors seem to be playing a guessing game.

[Altostrata]

Mufdaski, because of the nervous system sensitization, it quite often happens that after a dose or two, neurologically active drugs such as beta blockers or benzos will stop working or even backfire (a paradoxical reaction).

 

Normal dosages are too high when the nervous system is sensitized. You might find a very low dose of propranolol will work for you. Or not. If you take it regularly, you will need to taper off it eventually.

 

Taking additional antidepressants can cause the same, or worse, as you are already taking two psychiatric drugs.

 

 

....

If I were you, I'd hold on the quetiapine and Xanor SR for a good while and work on stabilizing your nervous system. Please see our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions.

 

You were last here in April, what has your symptom pattern and drug intake been since then?

[Mufdaski]

Thank you for responding so quickly.

 

I am still taking 25mg quetiapine at night with 0.5mg Xanor SR. 

I have also gone back on to taking sleeping tablets as I have found that with this ringing in my head I can't relax or sleep.  So I take half a 7.5mg zopiclone at night in order to be able to get through the days. Have tried natural meds to help me sleep, but none of them seem to work.

I found that the propranolol weren't really working and so I kept forgetting to take them.  I don't seem to have had any side effects from stopping them was taking 10mg 3 x per day then ony took twice a day then forgot to take them. .  

 

I was treated with anti-biotics for h-pylori and have just undergone more tests which are negative, so the doctor says the inflamation in my stomach lining is caused by stress.  It gets really bad when I am anxious.

[Altostrata]

The ringing is called tinnitus. It is known to be a side effect of many drugs; it can also be a withdrawal symptom.

 

Antibiotics can cause tinnitus. When did the ringing start? Has it changed over the months?

 

Antibiotics can also cause anxiety and make withdrawal symptoms worse.

 

What is your withdrawal symptom pattern? Has it changed since April?

 

Zopiclone taken regularly will need to be tapered. It's good you're taking a low dose.

 

At what times of day do you take your drugs, and at what dosages?

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and copy and paste the results in this topic.
 

[Mufdaski]

i have had tinnitus before, but this is really bad and makes me feel sort of dizzy, fuzzy headed.  I hope it will go away.

The ringing started when the withdrawal set in at the beginning of May almost one month after I stopped taking the Brintellix.

I take my meds at night about half an hour before I go to sleep.

My withdrawal pattern is this constant not-stop ringing and dizziy / juzzy headedness. It doesn't let up. Also not being able to relax or sleep without medication and the slightest stress causes me to become anxious. 

I am particularly bad at weekends and have bouts of being tearful, although since April, this has become less.  I used to cry every day several times a day, but now can go up to 5 days without being in tears, so I suppose there is improvement.

[Altostrata]

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and copy and paste the results in this topic.

 

[Mufdaski]

alprazolam ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: alprazolam, Seroquel (quetiapine)

Using ALPRAZolam together with QUEtiapine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

alprazolam ↔ eszopiclone

Applies to: alprazolam, eszopiclone

Using ALPRAZolam together with eszopiclone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

quetiapine ↔ eszopiclone

Applies to: Seroquel (quetiapine), eszopiclone

Using QUEtiapine together with eszopiclone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

No other interactions were found between your selected drugs.

Note: this does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. ALWAYS consult with your doctor or pharmacist.

[Altostrata]

Those are quite enough interactions. You can probably see where your fuzzy head comes from.

 

(That quetiapine works as an adjunct to antidepressants is a myth. What is does is add stupefaction.)

 

You may wish to take quetiapine a couple hours earlier than the other drugs, then you might not be so hungover. Once you get stabilized on the new schedule, you may wish to consider Tips for tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine)

[Mufdaski]

Thank you, I appreciate your help and advice.  I would like to taper off Seroquel, but need to get stabilized first. 

Currently going through grief and rejection.

The chronic anxiety had subsided, but seems to have come back with a vengeance.  Also I am finding it difficult to sleep even with the half a 7.5mg Zopiclone and really don't want to increase that. 

So tired of this constant struggle just to get through each day and night.  Feel as though I'm getting weaker and not winning.

[Altostrata]

Yes, it can be very frustrating and discouraging.

 

See What is withdrawal syndrome?
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[Mufdaski]

Thanks for the links. I don't know if I can do this.  I still have such a long way to go.  Got terrible gastritus and anxiety without mentioning the rest of how bad I am feeling and that's just withdrawal form the AD's.  I am still on the quetiapine and Xanor.  I think I would rather stay on them for the rest of my life than go thru more withdrawal.  When I read of people suffering for 7  years, it makes me feel so hopeless. 

[Altostrata]

Yes, it can be difficult. I am sorry you have to deal with antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.

 

Do you think your gastritis may be connected to the h. pylori treatment? Did you take antibiotics? That can mess up your digestion for a long time.

[Mufdaski]

I went into hospital a couple of weeks ago for gastroscope and endoscope. The results came up negative for h-pylori this time, but showed inflammation of my stomach lining. 

I was on anti-biotics at beginning of May for h-pylori. I think the gastritus is caused by the anxiety, which has been really bad since I went off the AD's. 

When I go to my gp, she just wants to put me back on the AD's to stop the anxiety.  After coming this far, i don't want to go back on them.  When the anxiety is really bad I feel I can't carry on as I am on my own with no family. 

I's been almost 4 months since I stopped the AD's now.  I have lost about 8kg's mostly from the anxiety, but this past couple of weeks my stomach has been too sore to eat, so this is a worry. I do have a hiatus hernia

[Altostrata]

You might want to go on a simple non-irritating diet and let your stomach heal. Throwing in more drugs only confuses it further. See

 

SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diets
 
Cut down on sugar to improve mental health
 
Probiotics and gut health
 
Gluten and depression
 
Histamine intolerance

[Mufdaski]

Thank you.  I have already cut out sugar from my diet, don't drink alcohol or any carbonated drinks and do take good probiotics. 

 

I found the articles on SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diets very interesting and will try this.

 

I have felt quite a big improvement over the past couple of weeks.  Less anxiety and coping better, but am still very much on a roller coaster.  Having more good days than before.

Friends tell me I should go to a life coach to learn coping skills.  Truth is that when I don't feel anxious I am perfectly able to cope.  They mean well, but don't realize this is a chemical imbalance and has such a powerful effect on how we cope.

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're feeling better. Is this after instituting a non-irritating diet? Which one did you adopt?

[Mufdaski]

Well, I haven't really changed my diet as I have been eating very healthily for a long time.   I take probiotics regularly, don't have additional sugar in my diet or beverages and don't drink carbonated cool drinks.

I eat lots of fresh vegetables, fish and healthy meals. Don't eat junk food and take-aways.  I have tried to cut down on wheat and gluten though.

Due to my stomach problems, the doctor put me on peploc acid blockers.  I did some reading about this and found that they can inhibit absorption of B and D vitamins and magnesium.  The symptoms of these deficiencies are behavioural disturbances, Irritability and anxiety. lethargy, depression, loss of appetite etc.

I have been feeling better since I have taken vitamin B, D and magnesium supplements and have cut down on the Peploc only taking one every second day which seems to work of for now.

I have these past few days hit a bit of a low and started had increased anxiety and bad fuzzy ringing head again, but not as bad as before. 

I find weekends are particularly bad and don't seem to be able to relax.

This past few days I felt as though I was sliding backwards.  It's a real roller coaster ride.

[Fresh]

Hi Muffy ,   hope you're feeling better.    Lots of us are taking apple cider vinegar for stomach inflammation and digestive issues , and it has heaps of benefits for your whole system.  

See http://draxe.com/apple-cider-vinegar-uses/

 

Two tablespoons in a glass of hot water with honey . . . tastes really good.   Good on you for doing some research - best to stay away from acid-blockers if at all possible - there are too many mood implications.

[Mufdaski]

Hi Fresh,  I have been doing a bit better thanks.  Still on the roller coaster with ups and downs, but doing better than I was.

How are you doing?

thanks for the tip about apple cider vinegar.  I bought some and have started taking it.  I tried to stop taking the acid blockers, but my stomach gets really sore and I get headaches and stiff neck and shoulders.  I have cut down the dosage as I was on 40mg per day and now only take 20mg.  Will try and wean myself off them over time so it is not such a shock to my system.

[Altostrata]

Yes, you need to taper the acid blockers to avoid acid rebound. See Tips for tapering off stomach acid blockers or PPIs...

[Mufdaski]

Thank you.  When I read up on the links it speaks about acid reflux.  I am just a little concerned that it is not just acid reflux that I suffer from.  My stomach lining is frequently badly inflamed and very painful.  I cannot reduce the acid blockers by 25% as they are not capsules, but slow release tablets.

I have cut down from 40mg to 20mg.  Wish I knew how to reduce the painful inflammation in my stomach.  It was caused by the H-Pylori, which I know is affected by my stress.  But the last results I had came back negative for h-pylori, but showed inflammation.  Not sure where to go from here.  I am eating healthily.

[Petunia]

Hi Mufdaski,

I searched 'natural treatments for gastritis' and got lots of hits. This one seemed quite good, but you may already be doing these things:

 

Gastritis - lifestyle and home remedies

 

Here is some of what it said:

 

You may find some relief from signs and symptoms if you:

• Eat smaller, more-frequent meals. If you experience frequent indigestion, try eating several small meals instead of three large ones whenever you can.

• Avoid irritating foods. Avoid foods that irritate your stomach, especially those that are spicy, acidic, fried or fatty.

• Avoid alcohol. Alcohol can irritate the mucous lining of your stomach.

Based on this, apple cider vinegar might not be helpful as its quite acidic. Apple cider vinegar contains acetic acid which is acidic in nature. It may have a more alkaline effect on the rest of your body, but it could be causing irritation to your stomach lining.

 

Maybe do some more research, see what else you can find.

 

Did you read through the whole thread in the link about tapering from acid blockers? There are some good ideas there. Perhaps you could change to a different acid blocker which would be easier to taper from.

[Mufdaski]

Thank you for the advice and the link Petunia, it is very helpful.

I am so very stressed and it doesn't seem to matter what I try, my stomach is constantly inflamed and sore. 

I did read the link on tapering from acid blockers.  I reduced from 40mg to 20mg of peploc gradually, but started with worsened stomach problems and sore shoulder and neck.

I am fluctuating between the 40 and 20mg. 

I am still struggling with depression and anxiety, which doesn't help the stomach problems.  I have been off anti-depressants for 6 months and am much better, but feel I have a long way to go still.