Vonnegutjunky: Paxil 10 mg for 8 years - partial wean with reinstatement

May 4, 2022

Update - been doing meditation - taking vit d and omega 3. And listening to some podcasts - still fragile but feeling a little better today

May 25, 2022

Vent/rant

My mother had schizophrenia- from my earliest memories - until the day she died - all I heard was - “your mom would be ok if she took her medicine” (her antipsychotics, she was never compliant and I never know why until my med caused an adverse reaction)

after I first landed in a mental hospital due to my anxiety I was put on traxadone for about 2 months while simultaneously doing therapy - things were ok-

fast forward to me be 30 yo single mom working and going to college - I started getting severe ocd with intrusve thoughts and anxiety -

I stopped functioning - pushed everything down and felt no one could help me - I had a lot of derealization at the time but had no clue that’s what I had- I thought I was just crazy - went to multiple therapists w no success because I couldn’t even explain my issues to them- finally got on Paxil - 20mg -

omg it worked - it took all of my anxiety away - so the ocd didn’t bother me as much - sure I still had mild depression in the form of mood swings and negative self talk - but I def felt better -

my doctor said it was safe To take while pregnant and I did- I was told I had a chemical imbalance and I needed more serotonin - this sealed it for me - that’s what I needed -

after doing really well at work and feeling happy with my life - I tried to come off it - well the rest of that story is at the beginning of this thread -

some 16 pages back -

my rant is about how embedded the importance and need for medication is in me-

Everypart of my being thinks I need an ssri - That I can’t ever be functional and normal without one -

I don’t want to be like that - how do I get over this ? How do I see things differently? Can I really rewire my brain at almost 50 yo? I’ve been on this drug for 16 years now - I feel horrible - it’s not doing a thing for me - but I know the withdrawals are going to be terrible too so I keep at this low dose -

I feel stuck as hell, hopeless, like I can’t stay on it and I can’t get off it and if I do get off it - I’m going to be the same miserable non functional mess that I am now- but maybe worse -I have been worse -

I just don’t know what to do- my fears are - what if I get worse like I was before? It took me almost 4 years to get to a point where I felt semi human(after my adverse reaction see earlier posts) -

I was working fully time from this past august until this spring when everything came crashing down-

I had started prempro for my menopause, was on it For 2 months and the anxiety and sleep issues started creeping in - I stopped that and immediately within 2 weeks got a Uti (was taking hormones for my persistent utis)

- I had to start keflex and take that then got another uti so I was back on keflex (almost a month straight of antibiotics) - during this whole time I tore a back muscle and couldn’t walk

-so instead of doing my normal physical stuff I was forced to lay on the sofa and my depression and anxiety and dpdr just took off - this started about a month ago and I don’t know how long all of this will last but it has me by its grips - I hope if it was the hormones it will pass -

regareless- I feel hopeless right now- hopeless that I will always need a pill- hopeless that I won’t be able to fully heal my brain and be happy - I am just so damn scared all day every day - I want to no be scared

thaks for reading of you made it this far

May 26, 2022

You might find this video helpful:

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

June 10, 2022

Need to vent again.

since I stopped the prempro I have consistently felt bad. It’s been over 6 weeks now. So I decided to make an appointment with a reiki practitioner. I thought, at the very least, I am very susceptible to placebo effects, so maybe he will do something that will calm my subconscious. Because my panic anxiety , dpdr and depression are bad bad.

well I’ve been doing a lot of meditation the last couple of weeks. Really getting into Jung and just trying to connect with my spirt/soul whatever, I’m not a religious person and I’ve never been but many wise people who have gotten through their depression have used their soul/spirit to disconnect from their worst symptoms. So that’s what I wanted to do and I thought maybe this reiki session might just sort of help that a bit.

so here is the embarrassing part of my story, mainly bc it’s very personal for me to talk about stuff like this.

as I’m laying on the table and the guy is over me putting his hands above me, I think, ok I’m going to really get into this, I’m imaging my spirt/soul above my head happy and engaging w the practitioners energy. Then I think, what if he’s trying to make me feel/think like that? Then I thought, what if I said to him jokingly “hey what are you doing?” Just to let him know hey, I’m feeling something, like “I think it’s working!”

I immediately had a panic attack , literally I was panicking, because I thought I was losing my mind and being delusional, like how people who lose touch with reality think people are implanting thoughts. That type of thing. This happened on Tuesday , and I’ve been freaking out since.

today I was reading something online and it said “you can’t access this article” that “you” word triggered me, like I can’t explain it but it felt like the “you” was personal, like directed at me and I knew that wasn’t true, but the fear attached to it was so strong . And I was freaking out and sweating, haven’t eaten all day can’t calm down and am convinced I am losing my mind.

I don’t know if my anxiety and ocd is taking a new theme of fear of psychosis or what or if I am really going crazy. At some point I think, well if I do lose it then oh well, eff it, I’ll get on disability and stay home and quit my job and write a book. But then I get scared bc paranoid delusions are scary.

my mom was a paranoid schizophrenic, I know very well what paranoid thoughts look like. I don’t think I am schizophrenic because I’m almost 50, but I feel stress and my hormones could push me over the edge.

thanks for reading all of my worries.

June 10, 2022

@Vonnegutjunky

What you describe sounds very familiar to me. I can relate to having experienced intense neuro-fear, neuro-paranoia, neuro-panic, intrusive thoughts, and related states of severe distress. Unfortunately these can be quite common WD symptoms and can be very challenging. I'm sorry you're going through this.

The good news is that it does get better. It's gotten a lot better for me, and it will get better for you, too.

You may already be familiar with these help topics but I am sending them to you just in case. I often find myself revisiting helpful threads.

This one offers a useful peek behind-the-scenes to help describe the neurological, physiological, biochemical reasons for why we experience some of the strange WD symptoms we get: What is happening in your brain?

This topic on Neuro-emotions is a helpful reminder that extreme emotional states are a common WD symptom, for example a lot of us get a kind of neuro-OCD. It's important to remember that this is not you, it's just your brain and nervous system going into these intense reactions as part of the healing process. The essay on what's happening in your brain helps explain this.

Dealing with Emotional Spirals

Withdrawal causing repetitive or intrusive thoughts, rumination, and increased panic?

Obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD: Repetitive intrusive thoughts, compulsive behaviors

Remember it's temporary. This too shall pass.

In the meantime take gentle care of yourself. Practice Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms. These strategies can help with managing the secondary reactions around WD symptoms -- the reaction to the reaction. When we practice not reacting to the reaction this can be a way to stop emotional spirals, reduce meta-anxiety, avoid panic attacks, etc. There is so much in WD we cannot control, but we can work on accepting what we can't control, which in turn can help make the experience less frightening and less unpleasant overall.

Hang in there. It gets better <3

June 10, 2022

Thank you so very much Ariel - I did fifer all about the neuro emotions/ paranoia - yes my ocd has always been pretty bad but never really had paranoia before - maybe because that’s new for me it hit me harder - also my mothers mental illness was very traumatizing for me - so any thought of becoming like that scares the beejeezus out of me!

thank you so much again- I am fighting reassurance right now so this doesn’t become an issue later - I don’t want it to hang around - stupid brain loves to learn all the wrong stuff lol

June 10, 2022

Hello VonnegutJunky,

ce

I just read your post from May 24 and I can't help but share my thoughts.

I avoid antibiotics like the plague. They completely de-stabilize me. So do hormones. It is just my opinion but the combination of the prempro and the month of keflex really de-stabilized you and that you need a good period of time (hopefully without any added supplements or meds) to stabilize again and get back to whatever is your withdrawal normal.) Everything we ingest interacts with our meds; some more than others. For me, my brain lets me know immediately if I have interrupted its homeostasis...dysfunction and sick though it is.

The thing that jumped out at me the most was "I am scared all the time." I get it. I am too. Many of your feelings mirror mine exactly.

I wish you stabilization and hope very soon.

Grace

June 26, 2022

I've moved your new topic to an existing topic here:

withdrawal-or-relapse-or-something-else

32 minutes ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

I am looking for others who’s original issues came back and are not withdrawal related - I am holding my taper- I have been for over 3 years - however after a year of being good I was thrown into a relapse of what feels EXACLTY like the reason I got on the Paxil to begin with- (I have zero physical symptoms, it’s all mental)

I’ve been good for over a year and my relapse may have came about because of extrnal stress - either way - one of my fears is me never being able to conquer my original condition - I have depression that comes with anxiety and I get obsessions with that -(it looks like constant “psychotic” fear (fear that makes my world look unreal at times) and hopelessness all day)

This is what happened to me whilst I was taking citalopram. I had several major life stressors and it felt like the drug wasn't working at all. I felt so bad on the drug that I decided to CT it and felt great for a few months and then got delayed withdrawal and ended up on Pristiq; the counsellor saying I needed an AD like a diabetic needs insulin (I now know that this theory was debunked several decades ago). I later found out, when I arrived at SA after reducing Pristiq too quickly, that (citalopram) it was poop out / tachyphylaxis / tolerance.

For some people poop out shows up as a gradual worsening of symptoms when the dose has not been changed, but I think for others it happens when a person experiences a lot of stress; but it might be that things had been gradually getting worse but it hadn't been noticed until the stressor.

My suggestion would be to try a small reduction. If you start to feel improvement at the start of the reduction and then it gets worse that is a sign that the drug has reached tolerance.

tolerance-or-poop-out-or-tachyphylaxis

June 26, 2022

My "relapse" ended up with me having a major meltdown at my daughter's wedding reception.

June 26, 2022

4 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

My "relapse" ended up with me having a major meltdown at my daughter's wedding reception.

I’m sorry that happened to you- I almost freaked out at my in-laws this afternoon - the panic was indescribable - causing all of the food on my plate to look plastic- I said I had a headache and went and mediated and took a nap-

im sure I’m in poop out - I have no doubt about that - I’m at 7mg of Paxil - was doing great for the last year - not any more - I just want to know it’s possible to get better without meds becuase I fear I am somehow different becuase of my adverse reaction to the Paxil so many years ago - it makes me feel like I have no control over my brain - I leaves me feeling so helpless -

thanks for moving this to the right thread I appreciate it -

June 26, 2022

Brassmonkey tapered out of poop out.

I've been off completely now for 7.5 months. Post 0 updates start here

June 26, 2022

Poopout does not happen overnight, it sneaks up on you over time. If you've been holding for an extended period of time, then it is quite possibly poopout. Did you just wake up one morning with severe symptoms or did they slowly build over many weeks/months? I'm asking because the 7mgai range for Paxil has a very bad reputation for being tough to get through. It is very unpredictable and can throw some very strong symptoms at you without notice.

Got poopout the only way out is down. A gentle controlled taper will work you out of it. However, it is a slow process that doesn't look like it is working until it does. There is a lot of healing going on in the background and until the healing catches up to and passes the poopout it will feel like nothing is happening. Once you reach that point you regain control and will start to notice improvements in your symptoms. I was in severe poopout for several years when I started to taper. It took me two and a half years before I really saw any progress. You are at a much lower dose and haven't been there as long, wo things should progress at a better rate.

The entire range of 10 - 1 mgai for Paxil can be a very trick area to navigate. There will be reductions that are quite smooth and then others that are a total pain. The trick is to listen to your body and move forward as best as possible.

June 27, 2022

You might consider doing the following taper which will give you more control because you can hold for longer whenever you need to:

Brass Monkey Slide

July 15, 2022

Thank you both for your replies - I will look into the slide method - my symptoms - uggh - they are complicated by my adverse reaction - so I seem to have the windows and waves but I get them in huge debilitating chunks? Like after my AR I began to taper and felt ok until around 15mg and then crashed hard for about 2 years as I continued to taper down- then at 10mg I crashed for a bit - this crash I think was brought on by hrt - pretty sure it messed up my sensitized system - I could get through it - if I understood where these new symptoms are coming from or what they even are - they are causing serious fear now

will make a new post about them

July 15, 2022

I need to figure out

I need to figure out what this is - if anyone has experienced anything like this - could you reply? I don’t know if this is anxiety, or dpdr or what - but it’s new and it’s scaring me so bad -

So my husband hurt his leg and demanded he come to the store with me- so he limps out the the car - well as we are on our way to the store - my anxiety is high - and my dpdr is pretty bad - as I’m driving - I see a man walking down the street limping similar to my husband- I thought - he’s walking like my husband was - then I had this super quick feeling fear and the thought of l”what if he’s secretly mocking my husband ?”- but I know that’s not true and it’s not possible and I become very scared that I am having delusions or in the process of developing them 😞 I’ve had similar feelings about a license plate in the past that “what if that license plate is directed at me?” I know it’s not and I’m not worried that the license plate is directed at me- I’m worried that I’m having these weird thoughts -

like I am worried that I might actually be able to feel what’s it’s like to have a delusion?? If that makes sense.

my issue is why did that even happen? Where is this coming from?

Like I could totally see myself when I feel ok, being like “hey honey! He’s making fun of you! Hahaha” cruel joke I know- but now when a thought even close to that comes up, it’s almost piercing - like the thought is directed at me??? Is so so weird and difficult to fully explain and I wonder if this is anxiety or dpdr or am I slipping into a worsened mental illness? - I have ocd and fear of psychosis is my theme - but this is a completely new issue and I don’t know what to do with it 😞

July 15, 2022

I find that self talk helps when I have weird thoughts.

July 15, 2022

When i was completely off zoloft, (fast taper) I had thoughts like this as well as a host of 100 other symptoms. I remember going through a drive through and seeing there were 2 men who were cashing me out and I remember thinking they were up to something not good and I had to be hypervigilant like they were talking about me or planning something. I was easily able to rationalize with myself and was very clear it was untrue. However the terrifying feeling of omg I'm now having delusions was what actually caused me much more distress then the actual event.

What we both have in common is we both have the same theme of being terrified of having a severe mental illness. Fpr me, this theme was not new with withdrawal but absoltely heightened and intense when withdrawing. I over analyyzed every5hing wondering when i was going to have a full psychotic break. It never happened. I've worked in the mental health field for years as a therapist and what I can tell you is that people who have actual delusions usually have very poor insight and believe them to be absolute truth. Worrying about why they have delusional thoughts does not cross their mind, they are more focused on trying to fix the issue (like in your circumstance they'd be more upset he's mocking your husband and want retaliation)

What I can tell you is, I no longer have those thoughts at all. I get random thoughts sometimes like this but they are common for everyone to have random thoughts that make no sense and they don't provoke anxiety in me.

I can certainly tell you from my experience that my anxious thoughts absolutely worsened in withdrawal. It wasn't a side effect of withdrawing because I've always had obsessive thoughts but they absolutely intensified.

Think of your brain in the area of fight or flight. When you are over stimulated or your brain is in a mode of feeling threatened (which is common for people who are anxious or in withdrawal) your brain looks for where the threat is coming from. If it can't find one, it will make one up. Remind yourself your brain is just being hypervigilanr and constantly scanning for threats. When your brain is non longer in this mode, it will stop looking for threats becuase there is no need to. The rational part of you can help calm those threats and remind yourself of this.

July 27, 2022

On 7/15/2022 at 7:25 AM, Urchinowl said:

When i was completely off zoloft, (fast taper) I had thoughts like this as well as a host of 100 other symptoms. I remember going through a drive through and seeing there were 2 men who were cashing me out and I remember thinking they were up to something not good and I had to be hypervigilant like they were talking about me or planning something. I was easily able to rationalize with myself and was very clear it was untrue. However the terrifying feeling of omg I'm now having delusions was what actually caused me much more distress then the actual event.

What we both have in common is we both have the same theme of being terrified of having a severe mental illness. Fpr me, this theme was not new with withdrawal but absoltely heightened and intense when withdrawing. I over analyyzed every5hing wondering when i was going to have a full psychotic break. It never happened. I've worked in the mental health field for years as a therapist and what I can tell you is that people who have actual delusions usually have very poor insight and believe them to be absolute truth. Worrying about why they have delusional thoughts does not cross their mind, they are more focused on trying to fix the issue (like in your circumstance they'd be more upset he's mocking your husband and want retaliation)

What I can tell you is, I no longer have those thoughts at all. I get random thoughts sometimes like this but they are common for everyone to have random thoughts that make no sense and they don't provoke anxiety in me.

I can certainly tell you from my experience that my anxious thoughts absolutely worsened in withdrawal. It wasn't a side effect of withdrawing because I've always had obsessive thoughts but they absolutely intensified.

Think of your brain in the area of fight or flight. When you are over stimulated or your brain is in a mode of feeling threatened (which is common for people who are anxious or in withdrawal) your brain looks for where the threat is coming from. If it can't find one, it will make one up. Remind yourself your brain is just being hypervigilanr and constantly scanning for threats. When your brain is non longer in this mode, it will stop looking for threats becuase there is no need to. The rational part of you can help calm those threats and remind yourself of this.

Thank you so much for your reply - I appreciate it - I am trying to tell myself I will be ok- it’s daunting

July 27, 2022

I need to vent - I cannot take feeling like this anymore - I don’t understand how this happened - how I got so bad again- I assume it was from the hrt I was on - but it’s been 3 months since I stopped it - I feel like I am back in full blown withdrawal again after over a YEAR of feeling fine! I was even planning my wedding for this October (I just canceled it) I start therapy on Thursday and I just cannot stand feeling like this -

constant worry and fear and these dark yucky feelings I have difficulty describing - I don’t feel safe in my body - and my mind is always looking for new ocd themes to latch onto -

some days I will feel- oh thank goodness I’m stating to feel stable and normal again, only to be hit out of the blue with these feelings -

I contemplate going on a med and just being in something for life - when I read about others who feel like I do, I see they end up posting on here for a while and then end up disappearing - I often wonder if they just figured they needed a med - I’ve reached out to Dr shipko in the past and he said usually reinstatement is the only option - that makes me so sad and it makes me feel hopeless and trapped - I can’t even work right now - I was working full time last year - for almost a year I was working full time now I’m back on the couch feeling horrid - and stuck on what I want to do - becuase I can’t live like this - I’ve given 7 years of my life to this so far - I want to live again - and I’m just existing - I don’t know what to do

July 27, 2022

13 minutes ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

I was even planning my wedding for this October

Perhaps the stress of the planning has caused/contributed to the worsening.

July 27, 2022

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Perhaps the stress of the planning has caused/contributed to the worsening.

Maybe - but this hit out of the blue and now I feel exactly like I did in acute - after feeling good for so long the depression and anxiety is so overwhelming -

July 27, 2022

The stress isn't just from the planning of the wedding, which is a huge thing in itself and is very stressful, even if it is only a small wedding. It would also be from making that final decision to commit to another person, even if you have been with them/living with them for a long period of time and you are sure you want to marry them I think we all have some doubts in the back of our mind. I've had 2 broken engagements, the first one I was dumped, the second one I called off 6 weeks before the wedding. On the day of my wedding one of the cars broke down and we were late. I was worried that the guests from my side would think that I had backed out at the last moment - no mobile phones then and the minister was away on the camp and there was a stand in minister who I didn't have their contact number.

And for you, you have your experience of getting off your drug so you have probably been worrying about how this is going to affect you on the day, the honeymoon and in the marriage.

And even excitement is a stress.

Please note that I am not posting this with regards to detoxing but it is about how stress affects the body:

STRESS

Quote from the video:

any time that you have a stress response you're going to decrease repair so basically you can

defend yourself or you can repair stuff but you can't do both at the same time

This is a video about liver detox but the part that I would like to you to watch, and this is where the link begins, is the explanation about stress and the body:

Sten Ekberg: #1 Absolute Best FATTY LIVER DETOX

July 31, 2022

Thanks for this Chessie. I wonder why I always dismiss stress? I always have. I’m not sure why, but I really have always acted like stress is nbd and dies t really affect my mental states? I mean I know there has to be thrush to it, but I don’t ever “feel” that’s true for me. Maybe because it’s a slow stress?

while I went on my hormones, I started working full time again, slowly sleeping less and getting a lot of utis. So maybe yes, stress. But it never feels like it.

I wish I could be more in tune with myself.

July 31, 2022

Long long vent/rant.

I was about 2 years old when I had my first panic attack. My mom and dad were divorcing and although I was very young I am sure I sensed my safety being threatened.

Additionally my parents weren’t the most fit. I love them both very much, but my mother had untreated schizophrenia, and my dad had an anxiety disorder. Sometimes those things can create narcissistic personalities as those people are always in survival mode.

For instance I remember once around the time of my first panic attack at age 2, my parents friends came over and brought their Doberman pincher. People who are familiar with these dogs know they are super tall. Well I remember to this day, that dog barking at me, and chasing me up onto the back of our couch. I was screaming my head off for my parents, and no one was getting the dog and they were laughing. This was my first of many experiences in my life of not feeling safe.

My parents eventually split and my mom got custody. From the ages of 3-10 I would live with my mom and her boyfriend at the time (there were many) until she would have a psychotic break, then she was go into the hospital and my father could not be found so we would end up at my moms mothers home , and she would then proceed to drop us at the orphanage.

This happened many times. Eventually my dads sisters (I have 3 aunts) would find out where we were and come get us. Then we would live with my dad for a while until my mom got out of the mental hospital, then we would go back with her. She always had custody of us, until around age 10my dad did get custody.

My aunts were always so kind and always excused my mothers behavior (my mom did some very disturbing things to me and my brother, such as locking us in a car on the train tracks while a ******* train was coming, she got out and left us in there, I got out but couldn’t get my brother to unlock his door and at the time I didn’t know how to do it, (she eventually go back in and drove away), she also forced us to watch cartoon pornography, and made us go in the room once while my step dad was having sex with her, they always had sex when we were home and they were loud, I would cry thinking he was hurting her, because he beat the **** out of all of us) but my aunts would always say.

“If your mom would just stay in her medication she wouldn’t get sick- things would be ok” this was drilled into my head as a small child.

When my father did finally get custody he married someone who then began abusing me. She would beat me up and down my back and legs and leave bloody welts, lock me in my room for weeks it was then around age 12, during being stuck in my room that my existential ocd reared it’s ugly head for the first time.

I ignored it, which was easy to do because I was in fight or flight from living with someone who hurt me all the time.

Department of children services eventually began investigating because a family member saw my back and legs and called on them.

During the time of the dcs investigation my father had me go stay with my mom, I was 14 and had gotten pregnant, my mom took me to get an abortion without my consent (it was traumatic and I had no clue what it was or what was happening to me) I wanted so bad, someone to talk to after that incident, she wouldn’t talk to me and I became severely depressed.

Eventually the department of children services removed me because of abuse between my dad and step mom and my mom not letting me live with her, basically I became homeless at 14 years old, and they put me in a foster home.

The foster home was great, I lived my life, graduated from high school, but my family totally disconnected from me. My father even went as far to tell my extended family that I pressed neglect charges against him. I didn’t, the state did, I was 14 at the time.

After high school I enrolled in college, all on my own. I met friends and had some fun, until at the age of 19 I started experimenting with drugs, LSD mainly. This was the first time I had a full blown panic attack, during a bad trip.

I stared having audio hallucinations and delusions that friends of mine knew I was tripping. I thought they asked the dj to **** with me and make weird noises in the music. I was in a club tripping by myself. I confronted my friends, I wasn’t mad I was giggly and then minutes later i had my first panic attack with dpdr, I felt like I was in hell and I was walking around the club looking at the faces and they all looked horrid. The next day after my trip, I had very bad hppd and an intense fear I was going to hallucinate again and that I was going crazy (just like my mom)

About a week after that bad trip I admitted myself into a local mental hospital, I learned about anxiety disorders and was put on a medication called deseryl, they don’t use it any more. I was on it for 6 months and then the psychiatrist slowly tapered me off. I tapered just fine and was glad to be off of it because of the side effects.

Fast forward and I end up having a little girl when I was 21 years old. I moved away from my hometown and decided to raise her on my own. I did good until about the age of 24.

My anxiety began rearing it’s ugly head. I would drink sometimes and that probably wasn’t smart but I did, and the anxiety came along with it, I tried therapy for my anxiety, but I could never really get help as my anxiety came with existential ocd and dpdr. I never knew how to explain these things to therapists and I didn’t know what they were called at the time, I actually had no clue,I often thought I was just going crazy.

In spite of all that I lived my life, raised my daughter and started college.

During my last semester of my bachelors degree, my weird anxiety and depression came back, not only that, my ocd came back with a vengeance. I was 30 years old then and the existential thoughts bombarded me with dpdr and so much anxiety I couldn’t function.

I went to my GP at the time and he prescribed me Paxil.

2 months later and I felt Iike my old self again!!!! I thought “Just like my Mom I also have a chemical imbalance”. The doctor who prescribed the medication told me this drug “trains your brain to make serotonin”! I thought great! Something to help me! And it’s working! With all of the failed therapy and never knowing what was wrong with me I was so happy to have something and to finally feel normal!!!

But the ocd never really went away, the Paxil just dampened me enough to not care when the thoughts came. That was only for the first 6/7 years on it.

Eventually I met my husband and we had a baby, while I was on the Paxil. And I was accepted to a masters program where I went on to get my masters in marriage and family therapy. Once I got out of college I started working, and I was so happy, I loved my job, I was working with abused children. I felt like my life had purpose.

But while doing that job, I became severely depressed, I worked 60 hours per week, I gained about 75 lbs, couldn’t ever get enough sleep and completely lost my ability to orgasm, had liver function disorder and eventually had to get my gallbladder removed, and I felt immense guilt at always being away from my family and taking care of other peoples kids. And the existential ocd became harder and harder to ignore.

I reduced my Paxil to half the dose with no problems, and my liver function improved and I thought well, if I slowly come off this medication maybe I can do the healthy things I need to do to overcome whatever this weird anxiety thing is.

About 5 months at 5mg of Paxil, I crashed hard. I quit my job that I loved and I became non functional. So my doctor put me back on my medication, and when it didn’t work, she doubled my dose. The day after my doubled dose, the medication went paradoxical on me. It created a condition called akathisia, dpdr, and terror like I never experienced in my life. I went to bed and stayed their for 6 months.

I eventually started reducing my med and started feeling a little better and at that time I started learning about dpdr, ocd (pure o). I started learning that there are things and treatments that aren’t just medication (although I feel I am the most broken and probably need medication for the rest of my life) however I was and am still afraid to this day to try any other medication. Because if how badly this affected me, a psychiatrist told me, once a med category caused liver function issues and adverse reactions, it’s likely too happen with others.

Now I am down to 7mg of Paxil. Still tapering, still going slowly off this med. (I work part time as a marriage counselor)

I was doing good for the last year (however I have yet to find a therapist who I think could really help me, also I have crappy insurance)

But I now am experiencing bouts of severe schizo ocd. I think this Amy be due ti menopause? But who knows, sometimes there is no real reason.

With my dpdr and anxiety, it’s making myself a mess. I guess if you read my story you can see why this type of ocd would be such a fear for me.

And now at 49 the only treatment that ever worked, isn’t really a healthy option for me anymore is very very scary. And it took away my power. All of my power, I have zero faith that I can ever really do anything that will allow me to heal.

It’s so hard to describe the trauma from the medication, and how it just makes you ignore all of your problems, and once it quits working, there they are waiting for you, what are you supposed to do with that?

I feel stuck, I feel like I can’t ever get well without meds. It’s what was drilled into my head, and I have never had a therapist ever be able to actually understand me.

So I cry, writing some of my life story out on the internet. Trying to make sense of this, trying to remind myself that maybe I can be ok? After all of the fighting and fear, and trauma, I want to work though it with someone who can under stand, offer advice and help me with ERP. I’ve not found that person yet (I can’t afford them even if I did) , I feel lost and alone, and I don’t have any one in my life who understands ocd.

I guess what I needs is hope, and a roadmap out of this mess.

Thanks for reading.

Edited July 31, 2022 by ChessieCat
Resized font

August 1, 2022

Well I can’t find a trained therapist - but I’ve decided to document my journey here - I started doing ERP today- not like I’ve done in the past - no - I’m really full on practicing -

I got out of bed at 3pm today (win for me) I usually stay up all night becuase I feel so normal at night. (For some reason my symptoms alleviate at night )

after I got out of bed - I made a decision- not only will I accept my anxiety and intrusive thoughts - I will push them - I will agree with them and I will not distract or give myself false comfort -

so I took my daughter to her school to get her registered - I did have anxiety and it was difficult to sit with emotions, sensations and thoughts when I was filling out paperwork etc. But I also pushed myself to fully 100% agree with every fear every intrusive thought and sit with every sensation and zero reassurance -

I forgot to mention I have been meditating 30-45min per day for the last months -

what I’ve noticed so far -

*I notice how often I am subconsciously triggered with anxiety (all of the time) - I will think what feels like half of a throught and feel anxiety! The thro if they haven’t even fully formed and I’m having a physical reaction to it!

* I use false comfort and distraction for much more than just my anxiety and ocd - I use it so much on every day non triggering situations! I am just now noticing this and trying to find answers on how to do something more healthy

*My “what if” thoughts spiral - all of the time - into really weird sensations and really weird fears for example - I felt like my nose was missing while I was driving - so I said - ok it’s missing fine - let it be, we’re not checking, we’re sitting with this weird feeling - then it went to my lips missing - so I stayed with it - then it went to my eyes and then my head - then my whole body - and it’s not the only situation - but I do notice how one sensation evolved into me freaking out that I felt disappeared??? But I let it happen.

well the only really negative side effect is my throat is sore due to muscle tension in my neck and shoulders -

gonna keep going and hope I can do this on my own - I need to face my fears or be on medication and the let medication numb all of my problems away - and take my liver and sex drive with it-

but before that I need to try to face my fears - I need to at least say I tried.

August 22, 2022

I have been wondering a whole lot about why I ended up feeling so terrible again after a year of being ok.

I started looking to see if there was any connection between hrt and ssris.

when I first had my adverse reaction (because I doubled my dose) , the derealization depersonalization was so intense I couldn’t describe it, I couldn’t function at all, I was bedbound for almost a year.

well I feel very similar to how I did back then, and I haven’t touched my dose for over 3 years. (I’m not bedbound this time, I am grateful for that, but I am white knuckling through every day)

but

I found this article

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14550939/

it basically says that hrt increases the efficacy of ssris.

I think, and maybe someone can correct me, but I think the hrt caused my paxil to inadvertently be “increased” or “more effective” and it gave me an adverse reaction (again)

and I think, I’m now just suffering in a cognitive thought loop and anxiety issue because if this.

I’ve been so bad recently I’ve considered another med.

but this may be the actual problem. The med. it may not be withdrawals. It may be that I am still to chicken to reduce and I’m needlessly suffering.

i have decided I’m going to start tapering again this October. Very slowly, I feel I have nothing to lose because of how incredibly awful I feel.

im waiting until October because I’m still scared to touch my dose after the withdrawals and then the adverse reaction, and I want to practice my erp a little more and get to a place where I feel more confident and strong.

September 14, 2022

Central nervous system

Sorry mods if this isn’t the place to post this - I was hoping we could start a thread on central nervous system and medications and supplements that affect it -

I looked all over to try to find an answer to my question- which is -

are SSRIs a cns depressant?
How does HRT and antibiotics affect the cns if they do? (such as do they cause cns excitation or depressant?)

I was hoping we could start a thread for educational purposes - for instance if I need a drug for surgery or an infection, can I find out quickly on this thread if it will have a known affect on my cns? And if so what will that be?

thank you for all you guys do -

Edited September 15, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

September 15, 2022

7 hours ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

I looked all over to try to find an answer to my question- which is -

are SSRIs a cns depressant?
How does HRT and antibiotics affect the cns if they do? (such as do they cause cns excitation or depressant?)

From Post #1 of this topic: taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first

On 5/5/2012 at 4:34 AM, Altostrata said:

Psychiatric drugs fall into two general categories relative to their effects:

Accelerators: Antidepressants and ADHD drugs (most are amphetamine analogs) tend to be activating drugs, causing jitteriness, anxiety, or sleeplessness.

Brakes: Benzodiazepines, the "Z" drugs for sleep, anticonvulsants (such as lamotrigine), Lyrica, gabapentin (Neurontin), and antipsychotics tend to be sedating "CNS depressant" drugs, causing drowsiness, sluggishness, or dopiness.

(This is not a definite rule -- some people find antidepressants and even amphetamine analogs sedating. Drug history will identify the drug effect for the individual.)

7 hours ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

How does HRT and antibiotics affect the cns if they do? (such as do they cause cns excitation or depressant?)

I was hoping we could start a thread for educational purposes - for instance if I need a drug for surgery or an infection, can I find out quickly on this thread if it will have a known affect on my cns? And if so what will that be?

There is already a topic about antibiotics and surgery and anesthesia and HRT:

cipro-levaquin-azithromycin-z-pack-and-other-antibiotics

surgery-and-anesthesia

female-hormone-replacement-therapy-hrt-estrogen-and-progesterone

And SA suggests, if possible, when trying anything new to only start with a small dose and only one thing at a time to see how your react:

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

And always do your own research. A suggested search term:

how does "drug name" affect the CNS central nervous system

I tried this for prednisone (picked one out of the air) just as a test and found some information.

September 15, 2022

Thanks for this Chessie- I’m confused tho- it says antidepressants are accelerators however everthing I’ve experienced and seen, they slow our bodily systems down- low metabolism, extreme fatigue, reduced anxiety, lack of sex drive. That’s why I was looking for the answers, not that everyone reacts exactly the same -but after being on my med for about 4/5 years, I was exhausted and tried and so slowed down, I would sleep for 13-15 hours a day - just wondering about the biology of how that happens, becuase I really feel like I am in benzo withdrawal (I’m not never took one) but I swear the ssri had an effect on my gaba receptors, it had some anxiolytic effect on me and just wondering how or what pathway -

September 15, 2022

@Vonnegutjunky Antidepressants are not CNS depressants, see https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/prescription-cns-depressants

however, their effect is individual and for you, they cause fatigue, etc. Nobody knows why people react differently to antidepressants.

September 15, 2022

Thanks Alto - I’m def not trying to question you - as I know you know what your talking about - I think my question was more related to something like this article showing that ssris increase gaba - which is a depressant - I think that’s why I have reacted so differently than the typical withdrawal and my subsequent damage -

I’ve always identified much more with benzo withdrawl and kindling than I have with antidepressants and I guess I’m just trying to make sense of that - thanks for all of your help

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14754790/

September 15, 2022

16 minutes ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

this article showing that ssris increase gaba

You can throw out any psychiatry papers relating to neurotransmitters published 1990-2015, they're all singing from the "chemical imbalance" hymn book.

Antidepressants do a lot more than affect serotonin and GABA. Again, your theories based on neurotransmitters have no basis.

September 15, 2022

5 hours ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

but after being on my med for about 4/5 years, I was exhausted and tried and so slowed down, I would sleep for 13-15 hours a day

When I was taking 100mg Pristiq I would get at least 8 hours sleep every night but also have a 2 hour sleep 4 or 5 days every week.

September 15, 2022

48 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You can throw out any psychiatry papers relating to neurotransmitters published 1990-2015, they're all singing from the "chemical imbalance" hymn book.

Antidepressants do a lot more than affect serotonin and GABA. Again, your theories based on neurotransmitters have no basis.

No ma’am- not my theories.

If what your conveying is ssris can have any affect on one’s cns becuase we

don’t know how they work- then I get your point 100%.

just trying to make sense of what happened to me - maybe I will never know or be able to know - I’ve been reading how Paxil affects so many parts of the brain and body - it makes me sad and I want to cry becuase I feel I am so damaged by this damn drug - all I can do is keep tapering and cross my fingers and hope for a miracle I guess.

September 15, 2022

Chessie - they also made me sleep so so so much - now that I am on a lower-ish dose I sleep more normal- I dream vivid and I feel like I actually slept - it’s like waking up -

I was apathetic - gained 70 lbs - and was just so sluggish - I hope one day I can heal and I hope this erp therapy can help me live a normal life -

I’ve recently started seeing a therapist and I feel right now I am sort

of taking inventory and trying to figure out how I got to where I am - I now have so many cns symptoms that I never had before - pots seems to be the worst next to the intrusve thought - I don’t have other people who understand med issues like the mods here - I appreciate all of them and their knowledge

September 16, 2022

What I'm saying is you're not going to be able to figure out what's wrong by reasoning back from purported effects on neuroreceptors.

Vonnegutjunky: Paxil 10 mg for 8 years - partial wean with reinstatement

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