success Hibari: tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamictal

[manymoretodays]

I'd pick a time that is convenient in the evening/night going forward.  Say......for example by next week you are having improvement and wanting to be out more for example, 5:30 pm might not work as well for you as 8pm might. 

 

I can't recall if you do the magnesium in water and then sip on it when feeling distressed/desperate.  I put about half of my magnesium citrate in a liter of water and then shake up real good.  It's not a bad idea to also get it all nice and chilled.  And then just sip it.  Or for me at this stage, I just bring it along somewhere with me.

Or a nice bath Hibari.  Candles, music.......bubbles or Epsom salts if you have them.

 

I think it's 5:30 pm there now.  I might get myself a bit calmer, you know.......work your skills a bit.........just so you know you can.  That's empowering.

And then pick a time that would work best going forward.

[Hibari]

9 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

I'd pick a time that is convenient in the evening/night going forward.  Say......for example by next week you are having improvement and wanting to be out more for example, 5:30 pm might not work as well for you as 8pm might. 

 

I can't recall if you do the magnesium in water and then sip on it when feeling distressed/desperate.  I put about half of my magnesium citrate in a liter of water and then shake up real good.  It's not a bad idea to also get it all nice and chilled.  And then just sip it.  Or for me at this stage, I just bring it along somewhere with me.

Or a nice bath Hibari.  Candles, music.......bubbles or Epsom salts if you have them.

 

I think it's 5:30 pm there now.  I might get myself a bit calmer, you know.......work your skills a bit.........just so you know you can.  That's empowering.

And then pick a time that would work best going forward.

I take oral magnesium throughout the day.  Can take some now to see it will calm me.  

 

I will wait as long as I can but I know I need something sooner rather than later.  

Maybe I sound too reasonable but I have been very close to going to the emergency room twice this week.  I know that all they would do is maybe knock me out work a benzo but that's the kind of relief I am longing for.  

 

Because I jumped off from a destabilized place to begine with, my ability to be calm is very weak.  I'm not too rational right now.  

[manymoretodays]

16 minutes ago, Hibari said:

I have been in such agony.  Both today and on Thanksgiving and 2 days before that.  On Thanksgiving night I could not sleep after not sleeping the night before.  Intended up taking a bunch of different things including having a drink to do finally conk out.  

 

Hibari!  This is not what I'd consider good non-drug coping skills.  You may be just paying the price of that drink and bunch of different things tonight.

We can be really, truly hypersensitive to stuff now.  And yah......you said it......destabilized nervous system.

It's okay........let it be a learning thing for you.

[manymoretodays]

Go with numbers and logic then.  Do you do Sudoku puzzles?  Balance the checking account.  Count all the lines in your floor.

Hug a bugs.....

[Hibari]

I absolutely know they were not good coping skills.  They were survival skills because I had been sick and hyper all day in acute wd.  

 

The thing was. I was okayish the day after having slept.  

 

Please know I have been quite sick and scared. All the copong skills I had through the summer into early fall have been compromised by withdrawal.  

[manymoretodays]

I know Hibari.  AND adverse reactions too.

I hope you don't think I don't remember......how it's been for you.........or how hard my own complicated, painful, history went, and all the symptoms associated with it.

My point, I think, is that you may not feel immediate relief from your first dose.

If your fear of it is intense.....then just do half of 0.5 mg.  Which would be 0.25 mg.

I just know how easy it is to make a drug error when in symptoms too. 

Soooo......with that in mind, I'm hoping you might feel a bit stronger in an hour or two. 

And I want you to take it at a time that will work best going forward as well.

Let's shift gears a bit.......if possible.......to less dys autonomia or disregulation going forward.  I mean I don't think it's all going to happen at once. 

Yet, I think it can and will happen for you.

 

And awesome on the sleep!!!  What a difference that can make.

Edited November 24, 2018 by manymoretodays
sleep

[ChessieCat]

On 11/13/2018 at 12:11 PM, Altostrata said:

Hi, HIbari. So sorry you are having such problems.

 

I might try 0.5mg Lamictal at night. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

7 hours ago, Hibari said:

I have been off of Lamotrigine for 18 days and I think I need some relief.  

...

What dosage would you recommend at this point?  I got off Lamotrignine probably between 5.4-5.6 mgs. 

 

From Alto's info on lamotrigine:

 

On 10/4/2011 at 9:21 AM, Altostrata said:

 

- He starts everyone out at 2mg or less. Because I was so hypersensitive, he started me on 0.5mg. He likes to give a dosage a try for 4 days to see how it works, get beyond initial wooziness, etc.

 

 

[Hibari]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 

From Alto's info on lamotrigine:

 

 

Thank you Chessie.  I was double checking because of how intensely symptoms are right now. 

 

Didnt know if Alto would say anything different because of the intensity.  

[ChessieCat]

As MMT said:

 

it may not make much difference for several days.

 

you could try a tiny 0.25mg dose, just to test how you respond.

[Hibari]

Okay. 

[Altostrata]

9 minutes ago, Hibari said:

Didnt know if Alto would say anything different because of the intensity.  

 

No, I would not say anything different. More is not better. In fact, starting at 0.25mg, as Chessie suggested, might be a good idea. Let us know how you're doing.

[Hibari]

Just now, Altostrata said:

 

No, I would not say anything different. More is not better. In fact, starting at 0.25mg, as Chessie suggested, might be a good idea. Let us know how you're doing.

Thank you Alto.  

[Hibari]

I will take that amount tonight and over the next 4 days.  I will keep you all posted on what is happening on a daily basis.  

 

H

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Remember to keep notes.

[Hibari]

31 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Remember to keep notes.

I will. 

[wantrelief]

I am so sorry you are having such a rough time, Hibari.  You have been so strong for awhile now and I imagine it all must be wearing on you.  I am thinking about you and sending you lots of hugs.  My fingers are crossed that you get some relief with a small reinstatement.

[Hibari]

41 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

I am so sorry you are having such a rough time, Hibari.  You have been so strong for awhile now and I imagine it all must be wearing on you.  I am thinking about you and sending you lots of hugs.  My fingers are crossed that you get some relief with a small reinstatement.

Thank you WR.  I am tearful as I read your words.  

 

I am so mentally exhausted and still can't sleep.  If I go another night without sleep, it will push me over the edge.  

[Hibari]

Took my small reinstatement of 0.25 at 6:45pm.  

 

Felt something on my system about a 1/2 later.  Feel unable to relax but that has been going on since last night.  

 

If I can't fall asleep, I will have to take something to help me.  

 

 

[wantrelief]

Hang in there, Hibari.  You are going to get through this.

[Hibari]

15 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Hang in there, Hibari.  You are going to get through this.

Thank you WR, I appreciate your faith in me.  

[Hibari]

Just a quick update or more like a confessional.  

 Because I couldn't sleep again, I ended up taking 2 Kavinace last night.  I know its not recommended for regular use here because of dependency issues, but I was desperate. This was after trying magnesium, Calms Forte, and even Rescue Remedy over a course of 4 hours.

 

I don't plan on using it and will try other things now such as melatonin.  

 

At 12am the cortisol surging stopped and at 2am I feel asleep till 10am.  

 

1rst day of reinstating 0.25mgs of Lamictal.  I'm okay, woke up with nausea and headache, which for me are Lamicatals characteristics.  

 

I feel hung over but I think its from the Kavinace. 

 

I do feel sad, not about reinstating but more about how painful this process has been. I also miss my dog Jordy who passed in late July.  

 

 I feel far from healthy but am reading success stories so that I can stay hopeful. 

 

I also think I cry because my brain is not balanced and it's a wd symptom.  

 

The courage it takes for all of us to keep going is tremendous.  I think everyone who is or has been on this journey is to be acknowledged.  

 

I am so grateful for the support I get on line and my friends off line who are there for me during my darkest times.  

[Hibari]

Feeling depressed tonight.  I hope its mainly wd related. 

 

I have to give up my office that I started renting in September.  I was very excited about it but now cannot afford to keep it due to what I've gone through these past months.  

 

People tell I will be able to start up professionally again and  since I work for myself, I believe that's true but I do feel the loss of many things at this time. I'm 59 and feel every inch of my age right now.  

 

I am posting more in order to keep moving forward. Have a call wirh my sponsor in a bit and therapy tomorrow. 

 

 

[Rabe]

I am so sorry you are having such a difficult time Hibari...you are so strong and so giving...I send my love and hugs to you..may tomorrow bring even a ray of relief to you!!💜

[Hibari]

So, last night and today have been very bad.

 

I don't think it's the reinstatement, I think its the continued acute wd and and supplements I take to try and sleep.

 

Last night after not sleeping again,  I took 2 Kavinace at 3am.  They did not work.

 

I am very ill today and am planning to go to the emergency room.    They may admit me to the psych ward, which I have never been to but I am too weak to continue this way.

My husband is having a procedure right now at the hospital and as soon as I know he is all right, I will be making my plans to go.

 

I don't know what else to do at this time, I'm just so sick. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

Oh my.  And it's okay to post when you are feeling bad......I'm referring to your comment a few posts back.......where you said it helps to post.

So......no sleep last night and the Kavinace.  Yet, a full 8 hours the night before.

Can you do the call with your sponsor and bit of therapy today?  And then generally take it easy peasy.

 

As opposed to checking in to the psychiatric hospital?  Of course you'll feel some temporary relief, no doubt.......from being locked up and away from all your usual.  Yet, think about the long term outcomes.  Generally inpatient stays are not targeted to be long respites.  And once you get checked out by the prescriber.......what is it that you think will happen?

 

Post again, when you have news of your hubs.  Will he be heading back home again then.....once his procedure is over?  Do you need to pick him up?

And oh my.......such difficulty surrounding you now.  I'm so sorry you had to give up your office and put your own paid work on hold for a bit now. 

I think surely.......you can get back to that work.......when the time comes.

 

I'm glad you are being honest......no need to go to confessional and 20 Hail Mary's however.

Can you post notes?  The simple style.  The past few days.

 

Let's see.....I'm thinking pre-lunch time there now.......U.S. EST.  Just breathe. 

In through the nose for 4.......one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand, four......

HOLD for 7

Breathe on out for 8

 

Then find a spot, grab pillow even and try the legs up on the wall pose.

https://beyondmeds.com/2013/11/14/yoga-for-calming/

Or even the first pose shown ^

Keep working on the breathing as you assume these poses.

Try not to obsess on the symptoms mentioned in the narratives......just the calming nature of being still........getting still........in this moment.  And the healing that so wants in.

 

Then.....is the sun out today?  Grab a bite to eat.

 

Many hugs Hibari.  Let us know how it goes from here on in.  Okay?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by manymoretodays
elaboration, additional thoughts

[Hibari]

57 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Hibari,

Oh my.  And it's okay to post when you are feeling bad......I'm referring to your comment a few posts back.......where you said it helps to post.

So......no sleep last night and the Kavinace.  Yet, a full 8 hours the night before.

Can you do the call with your sponsor and bit of therapy today?  And then generally take it easy peasy.

 

As opposed to checking in to the psychiatric hospital?  Of course you'll feel some temporary relief, no doubt.......from being locked up and away from all your usual.  Yet, think about the long term outcomes.  Generally inpatient stays are not targeted to be long respites.  And once you get checked out by the prescriber.......what is it that you think will happen?

 

Post again, when you have news of your hubs.  Will he be heading back home again then.....once his procedure is over?  Do you need to pick him up?

And oh my.......such difficulty surrounding you now.  I'm so sorry you had to give up your office and put your own paid work on hold for a bit now. 

I think surely.......you can get back to that work.......when the time comes.

 

I'm glad you are being honest......no need to go to confessional and 20 Hail Mary's however.

Can you post notes?  The simple style.  The past few days.

 

Let's see.....I'm thinking pre-lunch time there now.......U.S. EST.  Just breathe. 

In through the nose for 4.......one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand, four......

HOLD for 7

Breathe on out for 8

 

Then find a spot, grab pillow even and try the legs up on the wall pose.

https://beyondmeds.com/2013/11/14/yoga-for-calming/

Or even the first pose shown ^

Keep working on the breathing as you assume these poses.

Try not to obsess on the symptoms mentioned in the narratives......just the calming nature of being still........getting still........in this moment.  And the healing that so wants in.

 

Then.....is the sun out today?  Grab a bite to eat.

 

Many hugs Hibari.  Let us know how it goes from here on in.  Okay?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

My husband is okay from the procedure and a friend is with him.  And he will come home around 12:30 today.  He arranged that in case I was unable to pick him up.   

 

Yes, sleep the night before but with help from Kavinace.  Then last night, I waited as long as I could before I took it again Tried magnesium water, breathing, etc  And as I said it, the Kav did not work.  

 

I know the hospital is not the ultimate answer.  I wasnt even thinking of the psych ward though I think they would pass me on there once they heard story.   Its just that I didn't know how to ease the physical and mental pain.  My mind wont let me drop off and that causes panic.  Then there are the adrenaline surges on top of everything. 

 

I can't go out for a bite as I am too dizzy and nauseous.  I will try and eat something here. 

 

I do have therapy today by phone. 

 

Holding on as long as I can before I make the choice to go.  

 

 

[Raye]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:12 AM, Rabe said:

tart cherry juice

Hello,

 

did the tart cherry juice mess with your withdrawal? I am trying to pin point why I been in withdrawal so long and I think cherry powder might be it 

[Hibari]

Hi,   I could use some mod support.

 

My husband had a procedure today and when he got home he was fine but then had a pain attack.    I had to help him and of course my anxiety was and is through the roof. 

 

He has gone to the ER and is okay and I am here with my brother.

 

Here's the thing,  I am still in acute wd and it's been a hard day overall even without this crisis.   

 

I am tempted to take something to calm me down such as propanal, which my brother brought along with some other sleep aids. 

 

I need something to help me during this time.

 

Would taking a small amount of Propanal be detrimental to me at this time?   The tablets are 20mgs and I could break those in half and quarters.

 

Please let me know your thoughts.

 

Thank. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hibari,

Have you managed to snuggle in or out for this day.  I'm so hoping you and hubs can just care for, and be kind to each other now.  That may prove to be very healing. 

 

I'm still interested in your notes......as I'm sure it will make it clearer as to the past several days.

So much up and down with different substances......and then 2 nights of 0.25 mg Lamictal at 6:45 pm.  And situations, past and present, and future tripping as well.

Again.....it's going to be a bit difficult to ascertain what is what with the CBD MCT oil, Kavinace, Alcohol, and whatever else bunches of things......but I think the notes would not only help us to guide or suggest......but may help you to determine what is what in these days going forward.  Bring those notes to the hospital if you are going.  I do know how very difficult it was, to communicate it all, to new and budding doctors and purveyors of medicine/drug therapies.

 

Sometimes it still is......for me, difficult to communicate it all in this quick fix society and mentality that so many have.

 

And trust me on this anyway......I know.  I'm the one who used MJ for a bit, when all felt completely lost.  However, I did mange to come free of that, and the bit of adderall that I was on, post Lexapro near CT,  and then 6 mos. later get free of my last medication as well.  And hey.....I'm a young 61.  I do recall feeling like a very old octo something(80 year old) though......until my spirit came on back into play.

 

So day 3......today......of your mini reinstatement/possible balancer and calmer dose of Lamictal.  With a whole lot else thrown in the mix now.

Get it all down on paper......and keep doing that.  I think you'll see some patterns even before we do.

 

Oh, I hope you are doing as well as can be.  And finding some peace today.

 

Love, peace, healing, and hugs,

mmt

[manymoretodays]

If I were you.....I wouldn't.  I did try a bit of propranolol too......way back.  And then quit that pretty quick.

I think if I were you......I might try some magnesium in water......and sip, sip, sip.

Breathe, breath, breathe.  Bathe.  Positioning.  Ear phones or ear buds and just chill.  Or back to back programing of something nice and heartwarming on the laptop or television.

 

Here's a good rule of thumb for not adding other things into the mix.  If you can't spell it, don't take it.  I'm not sure I spelled it correct. 

Okay I did. 

Propranolol (Inderal) Possible Benefits. Used for short-term relief of social anxiety. May reduce some peripheral symptoms of anxiety, such as tachycardia and sweating, and general tension, can help control symptoms of stage fright and public-speaking fears, has few side effects.

(from https://www.anxieties.com/159/beta-blockers )

 

We don't generally recommend it here, Hibari. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by manymoretodays

[Hibari]

I had to try a tiny piece of propanal but it has done nothing for me.  Won't do it again. 

 

Trying to breathe but am super depressed.  Just tying to hang in there for my husband.  

 

Thank you for your support.  I've probably tried everything a least once.  

 

Waiting to take my day 3 reinstatement dosage.  

 

Will try to get notes down a little later.  

[manymoretodays]

Good job Hibari!  ❤️

[Hibari]

Please help.  I cannot calm down.  

I'm headed into another night of not.

being able to sleep.  This will be two nights on top of the low grade akathisia that's been going on all day. 

 

I need a recommendation:

I can't take Benadryl because I react to it atypically.  

 

I have tried magnesium but it's not strong enough. I have taken 1 tryptophan, taken some.lemon balm to tincture.  (could take more) .  All of these are not helping.  

 

Here is what I have in my house:

Old Xanax .50 or .25 

Lunesta 2 mg (my brother is staying with me and brought it for his own use) 

Alcohol 

CBD oil. Not sure is this will still work.  

 

If I wasn't already trembling, I would take nothing.  But I am.beyond exhausted. 

 

Any advice would be helpful.  

 

Thank you so much. 

 

 

 

 

[Songbird]

Hi Hibari, I'm sorry I'm not very familiar with your story, but after a quick read of your recent posts, it seems that you are continually reaching for some kind of chemical solution for your symptoms.  I don't mean to sound judgemental, I've done it myself and I understand as I've been there with akathisia and severe insomnia.

 

What helped me the most when I was in my worst state was relaxation exercises.  They are great for calming the nervous system, helping to reduce anxiety and encouraging sleep.  Examples are: progressive muscle relaxation, gentle yoga, calming breathing exercises, meditation, guided visualisation, etc.  I like to use recordings with gentle music and an instructor's voice telling me what to do so I don't have to think about it. You could try a few and see what works for you.  They work best when done regularly – daily is good – but if your system is very agitated then multiple times a day can be better.  I started off doing them three times a day at first.  You may have good results immediately, but don’t give up if at first they don’t seem to be doing much, as the effect can build up over time.  Here's our topic about it, with examples to try:

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep-hypnosis

[Hibari]

3 hours ago, Songbird said:

Hi Hibari, I'm sorry I'm not very familiar with your story, but after a quick read of your recent posts, it seems that you are continually reaching for some kind of chemical solution for your symptoms.  I don't mean to sound judgemental, I've done it myself and I understand as I've been there with akathisia and severe insomnia.

 

What helped me the most when I was in my worst state was relaxation exercises.  They are great for calming the nervous system, helping to reduce anxiety and encouraging sleep.  Examples are: progressive muscle relaxation, gentle yoga, calming breathing exercises, meditation, guided visualisation, etc.  I like to use recordings with gentle music and an instructor's voice telling me what to do so I don't have to think about it. You could try a few and see what works for you.  They work best when done regularly – daily is good – but if your system is very agitated then multiple times a day can be better.  I started off doing them three times a day at first.  You may have good results immediately, but don’t give up if at first they don’t seem to be doing much, as the effect can build up over time.  Here's our topic about it, with examples to try:

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep-hypnosis

Yes, I agree that I am continuing to reach for something during periods of agitation.  I don't think you sound judgemental, its actually an accurate observation.  

 

After 3 months of either every other day acute withdrawal or an adverse reaction to the medication, I find myself periodically at my wits end and end up feeling so desperate for relief.

 

Yesterday, on top of several days of no sleep and akathsia, my husband had a procedure in the morning, came home and then was in agony due to the doctor bruising his kidney.  I was trying to help him while being in a state of wd myself.  

 

I was so sleep deprived and agitated by the time he has to back to the hospital, I couldn't relax. That was why I became so desperate and reached our for sleep help.  

 

I ended up using the lemon balm tincture to calm down and finally slept.  Today I just have the usual mornign nausea and headache from Lamicfal but am okay.  My husband is home but in a lot of pain.  I have anxiety burnom hoping to manage it. 

[wantrelief]

I am so glad you were able to feel calmer and get some sleep last night, Hibari.  It sounds like you had such an incredibly stressful day yesterday. I hope today is better for you and also hoping your husband's pain decreases.  Thinking about you - WR.