TechGuy - New here - lucky me, no AD usage....BUT....

[TechGuy]

Hello. 51 y/o guy here. Happily married 25 years.

 

Well, I guess I could consider myself one of the lucky ones. I am not on an AD. However, I am on .5mg klonopin at night and .25 in the AM. Briefly, my story goes: Have been taking .5mg kpin at night for about 3 years. Panic/anxiety/depression had been under control and was living along when the last summer I was hit was massive stressors that all hit at the same time - financial, work, personal life. Decided to start working on myself, exercising, eating better, delegating better at work.

 

By December 2014, things got worse emotionally and the anxiety and depression increased. Started missing work. Went to my pdoc who prescribed Lexapro 20 mg, to be taken 10 mg for a week and bumped up to 20. Also TRIPLED my kpins from .5mg at night to .5 3x a day. This dosage made me very nauseous and unable to properly function. December was a blur, I was a zombie and felt even worse. Only stayed on 10mg Lexapro for less than a month before I quit, took 5mg for a week and stopped against docs orders. Also backed off the kpins, stayed at .5 in the am and .5 in the pm and sought out psychotherapy and a new pdoc.

 

Psychotherapy has worked to a point, but I have been going for 5 months now and although I see some improvement, I still feel at times extremely depressed and anxious. I write this post tonight with a very sad outlook, I know this is the depression talking. My new pdoc is interested in me backing off the kpins, so we cut the AM dosage in half and I've been at that for about 2 weeks. Unfortunately, he is also pushing an AD on me. And I'm very scared, because I do NOT want to take one, yet I'm afraid due to how I've been feeling recently, that it may not be an option. I am currently worried for my mental health. Where I get discouraged is that I am trying, really trying, doing everything my therapist suggests, I have all the books (David Burns Feeling Good, all Claire Weekes material), I am exercising daily, the therapy we are doing is MBCT (Mindful Based Cognitive Therapy) and standard CBT.

 

Yet here I am, wide awake at 2AM with my depressive ruminations racing and frustration mounting. My brain hurts. I am running around scenarios in my mind, did I stop the Lexapro wrong (but never took it that long anyway), am I tapering off the kpins too fast (was only at .5 3x per day for less than a month, backed it off to 2 a day since, and now .25 in the AM and .5 PM). I am also taking supplements plus Omega-3 fish oil (quality brand, high in EPA and DHA). Or, is this just one of life's curves that I have to ride out?

 

All I know is, I'm scared to death of being coaxed into an AD. I've read enough stories to know that sure, it may work at first, but it'll poop out. And in my history since 2000, I've tried nearly every AD out there (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Effexor, Serzone, Wellbutrin, etc) and not one ever eliminated my anxiety. I never lasted more than a month on any med.  I did do a course of Celexa in 2001 that I stuck to for about 6 months and tapered off that very slowly. But I've been AD clean (with the exception of the Lexapro in December) for a very long time, over 10 years.

 

The klonopin was started when I was having immense panic attacks and wound up going to the ER many years ago. They stopped the attacks cold and I was off and on them up to 3 years ago when I found I functioned better keeping a low dose in my system.

 

So anyway, that's my story. I'm trying, I really am, but I'm going to wind up going back to my therapist and letting her know that I've been feeling worse and I KNOW she will recommend the AD.

 

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

[AliG]

  Hi Tech guy, I'm pretty sure Lexapro is an SSRI anti - depressant. I've been on it myself.   You might have to change your title.  Maybe you're in withdrawal from the Lexapro. That would be my guess. Anyway , you're in a really good place to deal with this. Welcome. One of the mods , will be along soon to help you with the more technical aspects of this.   I'm sorry you have had to go through this, but I'm sure you will get all the help and support you need here. 

[Fresh]

Hi Techguy , welcome to the site.

 

My thoughts are the same as AliG's . . .  that you're probably experiencing protracted withdrawal since stopping Lexapro in January (?).

Even though you've never responded well to ad's (from your description) , taking an ssri for a month can leave you vulnerable to

protracted withdrawal syndrome.

 

Someone who is knowledgeable about the situation with Klonipin is sure to be along soon.

 

Good to have you on board ,  Fresh

[TechGuy]

Yes, Lexapro is an SSRI. I just don't understand, in the past I have done this with SSRI medications before and never had this reaction.

 

Barely slept a wink, and when I did, it was sketchy. I'm sitting here now afraid to leave my couch and I need to work Monday. This is unreal!! On it less than a month at 10 mg and having protracted withdrawal 4 months later?

[AliG]

Just because your therapist "recommends", an A/D, doesn't mean "anything". You have to become your own "health advocate". How?  Read this site. It is a mine of information.  Research, and educate yourself.   Also, things change with medications. It sounds like you have become more "sensitive".   I'm certain things will improve , now that you have found this site.

[TechGuy]

Thanks, AliG. According to my calculations, I've been off Lexapro 127 days. I do have windows, like last Friday was wonderful.

 

I feel better when I sleep better. I've noticed when I have a good REM sleep, I always feel better the next day. Unfortunately most of my nights are spent worrying how I'll feel the next day. Its a vicious cycle, poor sleep, worrying about how it'll affect me, which causes poor sleep the next day. And unfortunately, I had to take a teeny dose of xanax to help me to sleep 3 hours tonight.

 

I'd like to think I'm one of the lucky ones - when I look at a coworker who is prescribed 6mg of klonopin a day, I have no idea how they function - and they're half my age. My piddly .75, at least to me, should be nothing compared to that.

[AliG]

  Tech Guy, I totally get it. Sleep is huge!   I was confused with your story , as you posted no A/D's , but then you said you had been on all of them and C/T'd. Have I got that right?

[TechGuy]

AliG - yes, if I can figure out my sig line, it would probably be easier. My last experience before the Lexapro this December was over 15 years ago.

 

Back in 1999, tried paxil for 2 months. Stopped taking it.

2000 to 2001 - tried a variety of meds including Serzone, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Depakote, Effexor - never lasted more than a month on them due to side effects.

Med free until 2008 -- put on klonopin and 5mg Lexapro due to severe panic attacks. Stopped the Lexapro after a month due to side effects. Stayed on the klonopin PRN

2012 - started taking .5mg klonopin at night regularly for sleep.

Dec 2014 - paralyzing panic attacks prevented me from working. Doc upped klonopin 3x/day and prescribed 10mg Lexapro, to be raised to 20. I never raised it.

Jan 2015 - tapered the Lexapro from 10 to 5 to 0 over 2 weeks. Brought the klonopin down to 2x/day

May 2015 - tapered klonopin .25 in AM and .5 PM

 

Goal is to be off klonopin by end of 2015.

[AliG]

 When did you decide A/D's were no good?

[dalsaan]

Hi Techguy,

 

Welcome to SA.  Here are the instructions on completing your signature - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

To be honest you have made a lot of changes since December last year.  Its hard to know what you are reacting to.

 

It would be great if you could tell us how your body reacted when you did these things:

 

Dec 2014 - paralyzing panic attacks prevented me from working. Doc upped klonopin 3x/day and prescribed 10mg Lexapro, to be raised to 20. I never raised it.

Jan 2015 - tapered the Lexapro from 10 to 5 to 0 over 2 weeks. Brought the klonopin down to 2x/day

May 2015 - tapered klonopin .25 in AM and .5 PM

 

And what are all your current symptoms now?  everything you are experiencing even if you don't associate it with your drugs eg, muscle stiffness, or headaches

 

These are very powerful drugs, sometimes we can bounce back a couple of times and no more.  Having been able to drop or change meds before, doesnt mean you can continue to do so.

 

I recommend you throw out the calendar on when you want to be off drugs.  Aim for coming off well, not quickly.  

 

Dalsaan

[TechGuy]

 When did you decide A/D's were no good?

Not once did I have any positive reactions from any of them. Worst was Effexor, where I hallucinated ghosts behind my kid.

[TechGuy]

 

And what are all your current symptoms now?  everything you are experiencing even if you don't associate it with your drugs eg, muscle stiffness, or headaches

There will be days of normalcy, windows if you will, where I go "thank God this has all passed". Then I will wake up with anxiety, inner nervousness, racing thoughts of how will I make it through the day. Undescribable headaches, such as a deep, DEEP inner feeling within my brain. Like I wish I could open it up and massage it. Lots of neck/shoulder tension. Its a cesspool of symptoms, one day will be unreality, another will be depression, another will be anxiety. Worst symptom, from what I've researched, is what they call "akathesia", where I can't sit still for a second and I'm literally feeling like I'm having a seizure. At lease when that happens, I'm getting more housework done. Maybe its not that and just severe anxiety, I dunno. I've also heard it called restless leg syndrome, something I've had my entire life.

 

The odd thing is: I've also had these symptoms when med free. Say, for example, we went on vacation in 2007. I had not been on any medications at all, but just before the vacation, I had similar symptoms listed above. I chalked it up to severe anxiety about the huge vacation. Once home, I was fine.

[AliG]

  Tech guy, It's good you've found this site. I can't give you the answers, tonight.  However you are in the best place. Be patient. 

[TechGuy]

 

It would be great if you could tell us how your body reacted when you did these things:

 

Dec 2014 - paralyzing panic attacks prevented me from working. Doc upped klonopin 3x/day and prescribed 10mg Lexapro, to be raised to 20. I never raised it.

Jan 2015 - tapered the Lexapro from 10 to 5 to 0 over 2 weeks. Brought the klonopin down to 2x/day

May 2015 - tapered klonopin .25 in AM and .5 PM

Dec 2014 - took some time off from work to start the new med setup, about 3 days into the weekend. Started feeling ok after 2 weeks, but the increase in klonopin made me feel like crap and lethargic and more depressed, uninterested in anything. Then was hit was more panic attacks around New Years, that NO med would stop. Unreality like you couldn't believe. Suicidal ideation. Was only on 10mg Lexapro, read nightmare stories about how it can increase SI, so I backed it down to 5mg for a couple of weeks and stopped it in Jan.

 

Jan 2015 - Once stopping the Lexapro and bringing down the Klonopin, felt absolutely fantastic. Holidays and stresses were gone. Had a good 3-4 weeks and put it all behind me. Rose to a head around Valentines Day when the wife and I had to leave an event due to my anxiety. Been in CBT since and have had good days and bad days, good weeks and bad weeks.

 

May 2015 - spoke with new pdoc beginning of month, I expressed I wanted to be off EVERYTHING and try to get my brain back to normal. He is all for it and suggested breaking my .5mg klonopin in half, do that for a two weeks, then another half for two weeks, basically having me off the meds in a month. I expressed concern that this would be too fast, so he said just go slower then, instead of two weeks, make it a month. That's a 25% cut every time, which from what I've been reading may be a bit too much. But I figured I'd try it for the month of May and see what happens. WIth the new research out showing long term klonopin usage tied to Alzheimers, I'd like to get off this stuff ASAP.

 

I have NO physical problems anywhere else - well, I will get the racing heart but that really doesn't bother me. Its the damn "brain burn", as I described to my CBT doc. He said its likely "neurons on high alert" due to excessive anxiety. Worrying about the symptoms I'm having. Have been trying MCBT (mindfulness therapy) and standard CBT. Sometimes it works, sometimes my sensations are too extreme to try to rationalize away.

 

Hope this gives you something to help me out with. I just need good news......

[AliG]

 No , Just sounds like - withdrawal.    Sorry , no good news.  Hang in there.  

[TechGuy]

 No , Just sounds like - withdrawal.    Sorry , no good news.  Hang in there.  

Yeah, had I known about the benzo poop out, I'd have never stayed on it.

[dalsaan]

Sounds like withdrawal to me too. I'm going to get the opinion of some other mods here. In the mean time I'm a bit confused. You say you have no physical symptoms but previously you described headaches, muscle tension etc. have they gone?

 

Also, are you taking any other medication for anything (including supplements). If so you much want to check for drug interactions. You can do that here - http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html. You might also want to cut and paste the results here if there is anything

 

Dalsaan

[AliG]

 Tech guy , I know it's confusing, but hang in there, it will be ok.  You're going to have to go through some stuff.  you're going to be ok. You just have to be patient. 

[TechGuy]

Sounds like withdrawal to me too. I'm going to get the opinion of some other mods here. In the mean time I'm a bit confused. You say you have no physical symptoms but previously you described headaches, muscle tension etc. have they gone?

 

Also, are you taking any other medication for anything (including supplements). If so you much want to check for drug interactions. You can do that here - http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html. You might also want to cut and paste the results here if there is anything

 

Dalsaan

I probably should've been more specific. I have physical symptoms, but they generally do not send me into alarm - meaning I'm really not too worried about them. The strange headache that I described earlier, like a DEEP INTERNAL ache is something that scares me due to me thinking its something ominous. I think its either a sign I'm heading into a mental collapse or its something more sinister - yet I've had the all clear from my doctor.

 

The only supplements I'm taking is a multivitamin and Omega-3. No other meds, only the klonopin and I've been prescribed xanax AS NEEDED, which is maybe once every other week for when the panic attacks are overwhelming.

[JanCarol]

Hey TechGuy:

 

You say you are 130 or more days off Lexapro.  That's about when some of the withdrawal symptoms kick in for most people - at the 4-6 months mark.  Hang in there - and I would recommend NO CHANGES until you stabilise a little more.

 

You wrote:

 

 

May 2015 - spoke with new pdoc beginning of month, I expressed I wanted to be off EVERYTHING and try to get my brain back to normal. He is all for it and suggested breaking my .5mg klonopin in half, do that for a two weeks, then another half for two weeks, basically having me off the meds in a month. I expressed concern that this would be too fast, so he said just go slower then, instead of two weeks, make it a month. That's a 25% cut every time, which from what I've been reading may be a bit too much. But I figured I'd try it for the month of May and see what happens. WIth the new research out showing long term klonopin usage tied to Alzheimers, I'd like to get off this stuff ASAP.

 

You are right, that is still wayyyyyyy tooo fast.  Like Dalsaan said - throw away the calendar.    Rhis's Start Small Listen to Body Taper Plan

 

I know you want off the poison ASAP, but trust me when I say, if you go too fast - you may find yourself on them LONGER than if you went slowly.

3 KIS's Keep It Simple, Slow, Stable

and

The slowness of slow tapers 

and

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Many benzo taperers go with micro tapers - especially when they are on low doses (as you are, now).  5% a month, or listen to your symptoms, and wait.  Then wait some more, before your next micro taper.  

 

Others will have to chime in with your experience, but it's important with benzos (or any withdrawal) to keep steady state.  Resist the urge to skip doses or days, always take at the same time every day, to prevent breakthrough anxiety.  You may find that 3x .25 mg will be more calming than your current .5 at night, for example.

 

Klonopin is longer acting than many benzos - so you may not need to do this.  But you may need to make a liquid in order to get such tiny adjustments to your taper.  How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

 

Hopefully a more Benzo-wise person will stop in and have more specific ideas for you.

 

Welcome to SA!

[Skyler]

Hello tech guy... howze about checking in the Benzo Forum.  Sounds like K withdrawal is the most likely cause of your latest WD Sx.  .. To be answered below... how long did you take Klonopin prn, and on average, how often did you take it a week.  If you were taking it more than twice on a semi regular basis, it had probably started to cause dependency.  And you are now on .75 mgs. a day..  Not as small a dose as you think, but not overlarge either.

 

K... Next stop the benzo forum!  Welcome aboard.    Start your own thread there and put a brief overview of your benzo history in the first post.

 

See you there..

Skyler

 

edited

[TechGuy]

Hey TechGuy:

 

You say you are 130 or more days off Lexapro.  That's about when some of the withdrawal symptoms kick in for most people - at the 4-6 months mark.  Hang in there - and I would recommend NO CHANGES until you stabilise a little more.

 

Gotcha. No more AD's!!

[TechGuy]

Hello tech guy... howze about checking in the Benzo Forum.  Sounds like K withdrawal is the most likely cause.  .. To be answered below... how long did you take Klonopin prn, and on average, how often did you take it a week.  If you were taking it more than twice on a semi regular basis, it had probably started to cause dependency.  And you are now on .75 mgs. a day..  Not as small a dose as you think, but not overlarge either.

 

K... Next stop the benzo forum!  Welcome aboard.    Start your own thread there and put a brief overview of your benzo history in the first post.

 

See you there..

Skyler

I would say I took it PRN for a couple of years. About 3 years ago, my doc had mentioned keeping it at a regular dosage, one at night, to keep a steady amount in my bloodstream. So its safe to say I've been on .5 for 3 years at night. I will slide over to the benzo forum, thanks!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, TechGuy.

 

I think Skyler has got it.

 

First of all, you need to know depression is a very common side effect of regular benzo use.

 

Also, it's fairly common that after prolonged use, benzos will go paradoxical. That means instead of calming, they are activating. Instead of putting you to sleep, they keep you awake.

 

It sound to me that in December, you started having a paradoxical reaction to your benzo use.

 

Going on and off various psych drugs over the years has probably also made your nervous system susceptible to adverse effects and to anxiety. It could be that going on and off Lexapro pushed it to destabilization, and you've been dealing with that ever since.

 

While Lexapro withdrawal may be in there somewhere, my guess is it's the benzo that's your problem.

 

You might also look at whether you really want to stay in your job. No one should have to take psychiatric drugs in order to tolerate their work.

[TechGuy]

 

You might also look at whether you really want to stay in your job. No one should have to take psychiatric drugs in order to tolerate their work.

Trust me, that's been on my mind.

 

You wanna know something? I'm an open book at work, and I don't mind talking about it. When I missed time in December, tongues wagged and I was happy to oblige. Turns out nearly half the work force mentioned to me, "Its ok, Tech, I take Zoloft/Paxil/Prozac/Effexor/Cymbalta as well". I know that probably doesn't surprise anyone here, but what WAS surprising is what they were taking it for: Difficulty sleeping, smoking cessation, back pain - nothing for depression. I really learned a lot these last few months about how much this stuff is doled out like Pez.

[Altostrata]

Please also remind them not to suddenly quit, withdrawal syndrome is not trivial.