Skip: Off Prozac since 2012/Just off Valium

[Skip]

Viet Nam vet taking 2x150mg Wellbutrin SA daily for depression and 2-1/2 5mg Valium for anxiety. The Valium will taper to 2x5mg tabs per day in 10 days. I've been on the Wellbutrin for 20 days and I just can't hack the side effects - I'm 70 years old and it's wearing me down. I told the VA psychiatrist I wanted off of it. He said the proper way would be: one tablet in the AM for 3 days then just  quit. I normally take one in the morning and the second around the middle of the afternoon.

 

I should mention that the Valium is being used as a substitute for Xanax that, due to some misunderstanding between doctors I went off of cold turkey in February after being on it 6 weeks - ended up in the emergency room (twice) before I could get into see the VA psych. He took it away along with some Prozac I was supposed to  start and some Antivan from the ER and started me on the Valium to get the anxiety under control, then later started me on the Wellbutrin - I've been on it for 20 days and it supposedly takes 8 or more weeks to kick in - I just can't deal with the nausea, lack of sleep, etc for another 5 or 6 weeks. I take the Valium 3 times a day.

 

My question is: does that quitting routine sound like it's correct? Since these are SA tabs (VA product) they can't be cut to lower the dose any further. I messaged him and asked if I should expect any surprises would would it be fairly smooth and he replied that he had no way of knowing and to "play it by ear"

 

I originally asked him for Prozac that I used to take successfully but apparently there is a bad reaction between Prozac and Valium and he had already decided that he had to replace the Xanax with Valium. I can live with the depression for the 2 or 3 months it'll take to get the Valium out of my system then maybe I can get back on the Prozac that helps me - the anxiety I can deal with.

[ten0275]

skip, hey.

 

welcome to the site and thank you for your introduction. it would be helpful if you would enter your drug history in your signature. this will give us a better summary of what you have taken, are taking, and what your current status is. there are instructions on how to fill out that signature here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

please be sure to include all psychotropics and any supplements you might be taking.

 

despite what the VA doc is advocating, we suggest no greater than a 10% reduction every 4 to 6 weeks. your VA doc's "take one in the a.m. for three days and then just quit" is nothing but a cold turkey, and it sounds like you have had a couple of those that didn't work out so great. here is our post on why we cut by no greater than 10%:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

so you've only been on the wellbutrin for 20 days? and you were on prozac just prior to that?

 

before i go on a whole lot further here, it would be helpful if you filled out that signature. we can get a better idea of the timeline, time-frames, and big picture.

 

myself or another mod will revisit your post.

 

hang in there, skip. glad you found us.

 

dave

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Skip.

 

As I understand it, you've been taking Wellbutrin for only 20 days? If so, you could try a fast taper off by cutting the tablets into quarters and reducing by a quarter every 4 days. If I were you, I'd reduce the afternoon dose first.

 

If you develop any odd symptoms after the first reduction, you might have to taper slower. Please let us know how you're doing.

See Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, IR, SR, XR, XL (bupropion)

 

You should know that depression is a common side effect of benzos, particularly after long regular use. Adding an antidepressant to this is not the fix -- it's very, very gradually going off the benzo. Please see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

[Meimeiquest]

Thank you for your service to our country! Do you suffer from PTSD? One of our mods, Rhi, has worked some with a program that some think helps with PTSD, The Gupta Program for limbic reprogramming. It has a money-back guarantee, and that's about all I know about it. . Welcome!

[Skip]

Can't find the arrow for signature. I took Prozac from 2010 until 2013, then nothing and felt great. This past summer my family doc gave a prescription for .25mg Xanax - I'd take one occasionally when I thought I needed it - worked fine. December was a bad month for the family and he told me to go ahead and start taking 3  a day as he prescribed. In the meantime I went to the psychologist at VA and told her(and she agreed) that I felt I needed to go back on Prozac for awhile. She ran it by the psychiatrist and they sent it to me. I messaged "what do I do about the Xanax"? She asked him and I think he thought  it was just a rhetorical question because he didn't prescribe the the Xanax. He just told her to quit the Xanax before starting the Prozac - no tapering instructions or anything. I was on the Xanax from last week in Dec until middle of Feb when II had the meltdown. I quit the Xanax for about 5 days before starting the Prozac and that's what got me screwed up. I hadn't even started the Prozac.

 

ER put me back on the Xanax and ramped me up on the Prozac and gaveme  an Antivan to calm me down and sent me home. That was the Sunday night before President's Day. The next Sat I was in local ER with anxiety and they gave me Antivan to calm me down and sent me home with a prescription for 8 Antivan tabs to get me by until I could see the VA doc - had to wait 9 days before my  appt.

 

He took it all away, replaced the Xanax with Valium and put me on the Wellbutrin but it's kicking my butt - I'm 70 years old and it's wearing me down. I messaged him this AM and told him I wanted off - that's when I got the 3 day message. I'd go back on Prozac in a second but there's a problem between it and  Valium so I'd have to wait a couple months till the Valium is gone before starting the Prozac.

 

I just got back from talking to a couple local pharmacists and they both said that since I'd only been on it 20 days, that what he suggested would most likely be OK. I'll stay on the 2 a day as long as I can. Also, these tabs are SA (VA product) - you can't cut them for a smaller dose.

 

I'll try again to find that arrow.

 

Thanks!!!

[Skip]

As for the PTSD, they're going to start the testing in about a month. I understand it's computerized now. Not sure I'll qualify but I had a few things that happened that might qualify me partially. I do have 30% Agent Orange disability for a minor heart problem. Only took them 3 years to process it but at least it was retroactive to the time I filed the claim.

[Altostrata]

Please read Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, IR, SR, XR, XL (bupropion)

[Skip]

Haven't been around awhile - been spending time at Benzo Buddies because of tapering and withdrawal from Valium resulting from inept VA psychiatrist's  advice to quit Xanax 'cold turkey' in February. He totally has ruined my once excellent health and stolen 10 months (so far) out of my life. I'm starting my 4th month of withdrawal and still feel awful most of the time and have limited functionality. Lots of anxiety and depression, a lot of which is caused by frustration at  my inability to do anything about what was done to me when I was just following dr's orders.

 

The drs tell me to start back on Prozac, that it might help with the withdrawal effects but I'm leery of doing it as I've read where one of the side effects is more anxiety, and I have enough of that already. I have a prescription and meds  for 20mg daily OR 10mg every other day - whichever I'm most comfortable with. I asked for the 10mg dose to possibly stave off side effects.

 

PTSD isn't helping either.

 

 

Advice/comment?

[dreamspirit]

I'm so sorry you are feeling bad.. I hate withdrawl so much.. hoping you feel better soon. Stay strong!

[apace41]

Hi, Skip. Welcome (back) to the board, but sorry to hear what is going on.

 

CT off Xanax is really rough.  I'm sorry you wound up in that position.  Having said that since you successfully got off Prozac 3 years ago I would not be inclined for you to start back up on another brain altering chemical.  Your choices as I see it, and this is obviously tricky and just my thoughts, would be to either (I) continue to gut out the Xanax withdrawal which is very hard to predict from a time or symptom standpoint or (II) try reinstating a small dose of valium as a the longest half-life benzo which might help address some of the benzo withdrawal symptoms.  As you probably know, the frequently preferred way for tapering off of Xanax is to cross over to diazepam (Valium) because of its longer half-life and then to slowly taper off that instead.

 

It's not clear whether or not a reinstatement of Valium at a lower level might help.  If it does you can then taper off the Valium (which comes in liquid form) in a slow and methodical approach.

 

Hope this provides some help, but I don't think Prozac is the answer, especially given that you've tapered off it once already and risk a "kindling" going on and then off again.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[nz11]

Welcome /Been gone awhile

Sorry you are in this most difficult position

At 3 months drug free thats a tricky place to be in if thinking about ri.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

For the doc to advise to take prozac every other day seems absurd and asking for trouble esp when the fda said abrupt changes in dose can cause suicidal and homicidal ideations. Taking any of these psychotropic drugs intermittently or every other day would do that .

You may have ct it in the past and had no problems .(perhaps the xanax was for delayed wdl symptoms ??)..i reckon the game changes the second time round.

Edit :I also would be reluctant to go the prozac way

 

You might want to check out the benzo thread

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-forum/

 

Also this is very informative

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

 

Do come back and update us when you cant stay so long been gone awhile.

[Skip]

apace41: sorry NO MORE BENZOS....PERIOD. I've spent 9 months getting that crap out of my system and I'm not taking it again under any circumstances. Family GP gave me Xanax for nerves in Dec - took it until Feb when VA doc told me to stop it so I could go back on Prozac- he just didn't bother to tell me to taper it, so I stopped it and 4 days later was in the ER. I was put back on the Xanax and Prozac until the the 2nd week in March when he sidestepped me to 15mg daily of Valium because it was 'easier to get off of'. Tapered until August 9th. Withdrawal has been a bear for sure - anxiety, depression, general malaise, night sweats, burning legs and various other fun things. I've been pretty much useless for 9 months - starting to see a little improvement but I have not been blessed with a lot of patience - I need to get busy and get some stuff done.

 

nx11: the Xanax was NOT for delayed w/d symptoms - it was for anxiety caused by a series of family medical crises. I went cold turkey off the Prozac in 2012 with absolutely NO side effects whatever. That's why I told them I wanted back on it as it's 'easy on - easy off' (at least for me). If I start it and it's not working or I start getting too anxious, I can just quit it. I guess some folks are not that lucky and, I'll admit, it might be different for me the second time around - I'd really rather not find out. My goal is to get through this and remain 'pill-less if at all possible.

 

Thanks for the replies!

[oskcajga]

apace41: sorry NO MORE BENZOS....PERIOD. I've spent 9 months getting that crap out of my system and I'm not taking it again under any circumstances. Family GP gave me Xanax for nerves in Dec - took it until Feb when VA doc told me to stop it so I could go back on Prozac- he just didn't bother to tell me to taper it, so I stopped it and 4 days later was in the ER. I was put back on the Xanax and Prozac until the the 2nd week in March when he sidestepped me to 15mg daily of Valium because it was 'easier to get off of'. Tapered until August 9th. Withdrawal has been a bear for sure - anxiety, depression, general malaise, night sweats, burning legs and various other fun things. I've been pretty much useless for 9 months - starting to see a little improvement but I have not been blessed with a lot of patience - I need to get busy and get some stuff done.

 

nx11: the Xanax was NOT for delayed w/d symptoms - it was for anxiety caused by a series of family medical crises. I went cold turkey off the Prozac in 2012 with absolutely NO side effects whatever. That's why I told them I wanted back on it as it's 'easy on - easy off' (at least for me). If I start it and it's not working or I start getting too anxious, I can just quit it. I guess some folks are not that lucky and, I'll admit, it might be different for me the second time around - I'd really rather not find out. My goal is to get through this and remain 'pill-less if at all possible.

 

Thanks for the replies!

 

Just because you once did not have any withdrawals does not mean that your body will react the same way the second time around.  I once was able to stop antidepressants without any difficulties, but decided to go back on because it was "an easy on easy off" situation.  WRONG - I ended up having severe and debilitating withdrawals that continue to this day.  Once exposed to SSRIs the brain may change in ways we do not understand and subsequent exposures can be more profound.  This is a common misunderstanding among people and it can often lead to a great deal of suffering.

 

IMO it's not worth the risk going back on SSRIs.  Time will heal your brain and unfortunately there will be some challenges dealing with PTSD - but you probably realize now that no medication can really fix that situation to begin with.

 

Good luck with your odyssey - the longer you stay away from psychiatric medications the more and more your brain will heal.  After some time you will begin to feel like yourself again.

 

I wish you all the best.

 

Cheers,

Osk

[apace41]

Just because you once did not have any withdrawals does not mean that your body will react the same way the second time around.  I once was able to stop antidepressants without any difficulties, but decided to go back on because it was "an easy on easy off" situation.  WRONG - I ended up having severe and debilitating withdrawals that continue to this day.  Once exposed to SSRIs the brain may change in ways we do not understand and subsequent exposures can be more profound.  This is a common misunderstanding among people and it can often lead to a great deal of suffering.

 

Skip,

 

This advice from Osk cannot be overstated.  This happens more than I care to think with people on this site.  While it seems illogical that you can get on and off one time (even after many years) and then struggle after going back on and try to get off again, that is what we see anecdotally.  I know you are adamant about not going back on any size dose of the dog that bit you (the benzo), but it would be a larger mistake in my book for you to try going back on the AD. 

 

Given all of that, I imagine you will ride this one out.

 

We would recommend that you supplement with Omega 3 -

 

Omega-3 fish oil

 

As well as magnesium -

 

Magnesium

 

To help with some of the withdrawal symptoms.

 

Otherwise, the patience you claim to lack is something you might well try to foster since time is the one healer that we know of.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Altostrata]

Hi, Skip. Here is your Intro topic.

 

Taking Prozac for benzo withdrawal -- that's a tough call. Doctors think an antidepressant is good for benzo withdrawal "depression", do you have that?

 

Otherwise, I'd be very leary of it. I can't really see how it might compensate for the absence of a benzo.

[Skip]

Altostrata: could be that's what I have. I've always figured my depression to be part inherited, part Viet Nam, and part my miserable life circumstances (which I'm stuck with) but now I have to factor in the anxiety/depression brought on by the withdrawal from Valium - I've got it coming from every direction, it seems. I think that's why the drs think the Prozac will help although I'm not sure I trust the judgement of any of those involved since they're the ones that got me in this mess to start with.

 

Oh, and for those interested, I  went off Prozac cold turkey twice with no side effects - once after 2+ years and again this past year after only taking it for a couple months. I also took Wellbutrin for a couple months last spring but didn't like it and made the doc take me off of it - he tried to start me on that right in the middle of stabilizing me on the Valium before I started tapering which I don't think was a wise move. We did a quick 3 day taper and went off it with no problems - my local pharmacist said that it was done properly.

 

For the record, I don't think the docs know much except what the drug companies want them to know - they pooh-pooh anecdotal evidence like these forums as unscientific when they should be paying attention to people who have actually been through this stuff. The civvie psychiatrist that I finally hired to get me completely off the Valium told me there wouldn't be any side effects! He's a nice man who's been practicing for 50 years but I think he's living in a dream world. Same for the VA guy - he's a former ass't professor of psychiatry at a major university but doesn't seem to have a clue about what these drugs will really do to a person. Oh, well, enough of a rant for the evening.

[Altostrata]

We're kind of adverse to taking additional psychiatric drugs here.

 

Have you tried fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

[Skip]

No I have not and I'd like to get rid of the Wellbutrin title for this thread - I only took it for a short time last spring. Maybe I should start a new thread?

[apace41]

No I have not and I'd like to get rid of the Wellbutrin title for this thread - I only took it for a short time last spring. Maybe I should start a new thread?

 

I edited, Skip.  Does this work for you?

 

Andy

[Skip]

That works - thanks, Andy!!