Kundalini & shamanic initiatory illness

[Healing]

Shaking, vibration, altered states of consciousness ranging from comatose to euphoric, extremely long periods of insomnia or hypersomnia, inability to tolerate eating, food cravings, headaches, nausea and vomiting, nightmares, suicidality, pain, heart palpitations, fear of going crazy, feeling tormented, terror, being bed-ridden, agitation, weakness, cognitive confusion, seizures, muscular rigidity, tingling, impaired vision, hearing unusual sounds, seeing lights, other hallucinations or visions, obsessive or impulsive behavior, rages, crying jags, severe depression, vertigo, seeming drunk without taking any substance, exhaustion, chills, heat, sweating, tendency to withdrawal and agoraphobia.

 

 

What am I describing?

 

a) psych med withdrawal

b ) Kundalini awakening

c) shamanic initiatory illness

d) all of the above

 

The correct answer is d) all of the above!

 

 

Kundalini awakening and shamanic initiatory illness are both naturally occurring phenomena that were first observed and described many millenia ago. And they continue to be observed -- in more and more cultures.

 

Kundalini is an ancient Indian model of neuro-psycho-spiritual evolutionary potential in humans. The ancient Indians really mapped this phenomenon, kind of the way the ancient Chinese mapped the chi health system. However, this phenomenon has been described in many different spiritual and philosohical traditions throughout history, including Christianity.

 

Shamanic initiatory illness is a phenomenon with roots even further back in the mists of time, when humans drew their inspiration directly from nature (celestial bodies, elements, animals, plants) and ancestors, before the advent of gods. Again, this phenomenon has been described in isolated, indigenous cultures around the globe, suggesting that it is a universal human potential.

 

 

The syndrome is unpredictable in how it is precipitated, but toxic exposure is one of the possible factors. It often lasts for years. The symptom set includes significant mental and physical symptoms, and doesn't fit into any of the culture's recognizable illnesses. The symptoms are intractable -- that culture has no adequate treatment. The syndrome remits spontaneously and it is impossible to predict when it will happen. The syndrome does end.

 

 

What am I describing?

 

a) psych med withdrawal

b ) Kundalini awakening

c) shamanic initiatory illness

d) all of the above

 

The correct answer is, again, d) all of the above!

 

 

Kundalini is a neuro-psycho-spiritual developmental potential that traditionally resides latent at the base of the spine until it is activated. It can be activated on purpose by spiritual practice, or by accident through physical or psychological trauma. Once it is activated, it involves a deep cleanse or purge of the body, psyche, and spirit. Psycho-physiological traumas from throughout the lifespan are repaired. The grueling symptoms listed above are merely the side effects of this repair process.

 

The final result is a rewired neuro-endocrinological system. The person who goes through the process and comes out the other side takes a quantum leap in health, happiness, peace, wisdom, sense of mission, and, potentially, "extended human capacities," or what we call psychic abilities. It's like being born again into a second life without actually dying in between. And it's supposed to result in a literally more evolved human being.

 

A shamanic initiatory illness is a transformative ordeal that either comes on unexpectedly with no known precipitating event or can be activated on purpose by spiritual practice. It shows up as an odd amalgam of mental and physical symptoms, as mentioned above; is typically very debilitating; and takes the individual to very odd and dark mental and physical places. Interestingly, the illness seems to create a field that affects family and friends around the sufferer, who sometimes go through their own tough times in parallel.

 

Most initiations seem to be involuntary and un-asked-for, and, consequently, resisted. Eventually, the resistance in broken down, and the sufferer agrees to be a shaman. Symptoms can remit quite dramatically once the initiate starts to "shamanize" in some way, such as performing healings (using herbal knowledge, psychic healing, or a combination) or divination, involving knowledge and abilities s/he did not have before the illness. Shamans are considered to be more advanced in their development or more evolved than people who have not gone through the initiation.

 

So, what does this have to do with us?!

 

Exposure to toxic 21st century psych meds, removal of the toxin, and recovery from the consequent neuro-endocrinological damage may be just the latest way that humans are being triggered into a transformative experience that re-wires them. It might be said that the transformation leads people back into who they were supposed to be before the oppressive influences of family and society pushed them off track. Or it might be said that the transformation leads people into what the collective unconscious or planet *needs* them to be right now for the commonweal.

 

In the last several years of observing people recover from these meds, I have noticed that as people recover they often report significant changes in how they view the world, the purpose of their lives, what's most important, etc. Many people become more interested in spiritual matters. Others become politically aware in a new way. Or environmentally aware. Some people become more intuitive or psychic. Almost everyone gets their eyes opened in some way, and becomes more of a critical thinker when it comes to accepting the word of the authorities.

 

So, horrendous as this experience is, it's interesting to look at it as a transformative experience that may serve a broader purpose than we might have imagined and that fits into a very ancient framework about how rapid spurts of evolution may happen for individuals, societies, and civilization as a whole.

[Claudius]

This is a very interesting concept and from the Wikipedia pages about Kundalini awaking I get a lot of recognition. Of course this concept does not differentiate between cold turkey withdrawal or proper tapering from the toxic drugs. But maybe the only good thing from CT is that the abyss you go through is so intensly deep and black that you are forced to change. But at the same time, the time-frame is so enrmously that without the proper finacial and emotional support you will not make it. And in that sense I am still relatively lucky...

I will study these concepts in more detail in the upcoming time and I think they will be perfectly in sync with the teachings of Eckhart Tolle.

One fear remains: I am pretty sure that I was thrown in a psychosis after my CT and that is the reason my hatred against my former bully got so intense that I was on the verge of killing and could have ended in prison. And I still had psychotic episodes last year and am afraid that the hammer-hit of the cold turkey has left my brain very vulnerable for psychosis. A current thread on PP mentions the same. But we ust retain hope that mroe healing comes and we get better and better in grabbing the spiritual teachings.

I will get back on this subject in the future!

 

NB. Without knowing about this, I have already embarked in massage/chakra massage therapy. And though I found relief from it, it has not really spped up the recovery process because I am on the ride now for 3.5 years. But during the treatmentsI DO feel that emotionally damaged places are at least touched... maybe the real healing vannot come before your body has recovered to a certain level after the devastating slaughter of a cold turkey withdrawal.

[Healing]

Oh, I'm so glad you found this interesting and felt some recognition! You make a very interesting point about how the K model doesn't specifically speak to the difference between proper tapering and CT. Maybe the best way to think about this is that, traditionally, K can be awakened more gently and gradually if you pursue healthy practices (yoga, meditation, good diet, etc.) and it can be awakened more unpleasantly and abruptly if you have an accident or take a toxic substance. So, all things being equal, tapering should make this evolutionary leap smoother than CT would.

 

The point is that the evolution is there waiting to happen -- you can work *with* it or you can make it more difficult for yourself. But, no matter what you do, all roads lead to Rome. Psychosis -- Our cultures tend to have an excessive fear of psychosis. It is, in fact, a normal part of being a human being. It's just an early developmental stage that we all go through as infants and then revisit every single night in our dreams. To experience it in waking life as an adult need not be frightening or dangerous, and other cultures know that and value the insights that can come in those states where we have access to different levels of ourselves and of reality.

 

I had one episode in my life that I call psychotic / psychic / psychedelic in February 04 when I was tapering, on too many SSRIs, *and* on dextromethorphan which potentiates SSRIs. It was terrifying, because I was completely unprepared for it. You're right that these states can be risky if you're not prepared for them, and don't have the right support. But, you are more and more prepared to "hold" such states if they should recur -- which seems really unlikely at this point in your healing. And, you're right that you are healing continuously. And, you're right that your spiritual studies will help you hold any such states. That's very cool you're having some chakra massage. Please keep us informed of anything you observe.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Petu
fixed text

[Claudius]

Psychosis -- Our cultures tend to have an excessive fear of psychosis. It is, in fact, a normal part of being a human being. It's just an early developmental stage that we all go through as infants and then revisit every single night in our dreams. To experience it in waking life as an adult need not be frightening or dangerous, and other cultures know that and value the insights that can come in those states where we have access to different levels of ourselves and of reality.

 

I had one episode in my life that I call psychotic / psychic / psychedelic in February 04 when I was tapering, on too many SSRIs, *and* on dextromethorphan which potentiates SSRIs. It was terrifying, because I was completely unprepared for it.

 

You're right that these states can be risky if you're not prepared for them, and don't have the right support. But, you are more and more prepared to "hold" such states if they should recur -- which seems really unlikely at this point in your healing. And, you're right that you are healing continuously. And, you're right that your spiritual studies will help you hold any such states.

 

That's very cool you're having some chakra massage. Please keep us informed of anything you observe.

 

Maybe there are many kinds of psychosis, but the state I got into after about 4 months in WD was truly terrifying. I think my most prevalent pain body was triggered and it was about my bullying past, which was a pretty gruesome and scary experience when it occured in 1987-88. But it was effectively pushed away but popped up already occasionally during my first WD attempts in 2005.

But when WD fully hit the image of my former bully was in my mind 100% of the time and that for many months. And drove me to dangerous and hate-driven reactons by seeking him on the Net and bomb him with hatemail and threats... and in some state I thought I had no other option than killing him and myself because I just could not live with the memory.

I know now this was a SSRI-CT induced psychosis because I lived so many years without being it part of my daily life. But last year it came back and I took again some action against the bully although he had offered his excuse 2 years earlier... and I still cannot understand that. OK he was a freak but he had at least offered his excuse and still I could not let it rest and broguth myself in danger again. I think it has someting to do with being "addicted to your drama/pain story" as Tolle calls it, and therefore you do things that persist the pain and create even more drama.

But indeed I know now that I will not let it happen again and I will not feed the pain body anymore. But I still look back at it as psychosis, and in the worst form. I can imagine that there exists psychosis like states which are not so painful and harmful and even bring something positive. I my case it did not, but I just have to cope with my bahviour and the mess I created with it.

[Healing]

I think your "pain-body addiction" insight is a useful one, and you may have even more insights into what happened as time goes by. That seems to be the case with you -- you clearly continue to work on yourself, grow, learn more, gain more psychological understanding, strength, and health.

[Rhiannon]

You've mentioned this thing about Kundalini awakening before and I think it's very intriguing. But the reason I never really have replied to you about it is, I have had at least one Kundalini awakening already this lifetime, and I work pretty consciously with Kundalini (well, not so much these days, but I have done). And it wasn't like this. For me. It's definitely intense and, well, life-changing, and consciousness-intensifying, and stuff, but I never felt like my brain had been hijacked and taken over by something insidious and pathological, like I do with psych meds.

 

Which is not to say that withdrawal can't instigate or trigger a Kundalini awakening.

 

But I can't say, for me, that it's been the same thing.

 

Although I too have noticed a tremendous trend on the forums for people to comment and agree that the whole experience of being put on drugs and going through withdrawal has changed them. There does seem to be an awakening that happens for most people. Sometimes it changes how they view and think about the suffering of others. Sometimes it awakens them to a spiritual dimension in life. Often there is an awakening about social issues, about fairness and unfairness, justice, that sort of thing.

 

But that can happen from other things, not just from the psych med experience. I think experiencing meaningless, random injustice, unfair suffering, "when bad things happen to good people", that sort of event, is always challenging to peoples' comfort zones, and if they choose to respond by opening into it and growing, growth is available.

 

The spiritual rewards of coming through such experiences can be great, if you choose to open and grow, rather than close down.

[Healing]

Thanks for writing on this topic, and bringing up good questions, Rhi! As you probably know, you can have several distinct Kundalini risings in one life. It's kind of analogous to having a life stressor come up, going to therapy for a while, then stopping. Then, doing the same process again a few years later. Also, K. can be triggered in many different ways, and can feel very different depending on how it was triggered and how prepared you were for it. IOW, it could be triggered by toxic exposure (the case with psych meds and w/d), yoga, meditation, childbirth, just being around or being touched by a highly evolved person, reading something, a car accident, an illness, an intense relationship, etc. Then, the way you experience it can vary enormously, ranging from bliss with very few road bumps, to bumpy with very little bliss.

 

You said: "I never felt like my brain had been hijacked and taken over by something insidious and pathological." This is, in fact, a very common description of the bumpy kind of K rising. Also, it is pretty common to do a lot of good work on yourself in one K. rising, and then, darn it, find plenty more work to do in the next one. Enlightment is such an infinite proposition! However, as you say, any rough experience can precipitate psychological and spiritual growth, if you let it.

 

Actually, I might say that these 'bad things happening to good people' often do spark a K. rising, but that might sound too watered down or like a semantic argument. So, maybe more to the point is the question -- what's the value of hypothesizing that psych med neuro recovery is often intimately linked with Kundalini awakening? Or, what does the K. model have to offer us? There are so many possible answers to these questions. I will just start with three.

 

1) One thing of value is the magic of reversing your perspective. This recovery from the neurological havoc caused by psych meds is so harrowing on so many levels that it can be profoundly helpful to have a countering perspective to guide you through the dismantlement and reconfiguration. IOW, it's the value of seeing the glass half full. Although GSK may want to crush you like a bug and make money out of doing so, the universe wants you to evolve, so it will use any opportunity it can to advance that humanistic, life-enhancing agenda. This is just such an opportunity. (In this sense, there is no need to call it Kundalini -- that's just one model of how the universe works to help us evolve. There are others. They all have in common what you said about any event being a potential stimulus to growth...well, maybe more than a potential stimulus, more like an orchestrated stimulus...but more on this another time!)

 

We should be angry at GSK, we should work for change, we have to take care of our poor bodies, we have to discover some way to keep going financially. All these hardships and obligations, and more. At the same time, there is a magic afoot. Trying to reach us. We are not just limping our way back to who we were before the meds; we are being healed willy nilly of a lifetime's accumulation of trauma. The meds damage was the tipping point for us. A car accident or twenty years of yoga may be the tipping point for someone else. Finally, something happened that triggered K. (the latent evolutionary potential) to wake up and start working its way through us.

 

2) Another useful thing about the K. model is that it might help make sense of something many have noticed -- that old traumas either come up for the first time or in a new way during psych med w/d. This is how K. works when there is trauma (physical or psychological) that needs to be healed -- the trauma gets stirred up and experienced in various ways, worked through (not only in a psychodynamic sense, although that's great, but more in an automated process), integrated, healed. And then the body-mind is stronger, healthier and happier than it ever was. Psych med recovery / K cause a deeper working through / repair / cleanse of past trauma than one gets in the normal course of life. You could compare it to dilute, protracted LSD-assisted therapy, or a dilute, protracted NDE!

 

3) Finally, thinking of w/d in terms of K. might just lead to new insights about how to mitigate our suffering and maximize our benefits. (That's another post!) I tried to stay close to what you said, and not be too tangential or too over-inclusive. Still wrote an overwhelming amount. I was trying to address what you're pondering, but I'm not sure if I did. Let me know what you think.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Petu
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[Rhiannon]

"IOW, it's the value of seeing the glass half full. Although GSK may want to crush you like a bug and make money out of doing so, the universe wants you to evolve, so it will use any opportunity it can to advance that humanistic, life-enhancing agenda. This is just such an opportunity. "

 

Actually, I've been thinking a lot about this aspect of psych med recovery--I just don't generally include the "Kundalini" part in my own paradigm. As you may or may not know (?) (can't remember how much I've talked about it) I was very horrifically abused as a child, raped and tortured intermittently beginning at the age of five. So this journey of recovery, of finding or creating meaning, of learning to trust the universe and life--this is not something that I was introduced to by the suffering caused by these meds. (Although I do consider them the second great tragedy, the second way in which my life was stolen from me.) This is an ongoing journey for me. And finding ways to live with all of this is something I will probably be doing the rest of my life. And it very much involves my spirituality. But that's all a longer story than I have time to continue here, now.

 

One thing I've noticed is that yes, the intense hormonal and emotional states I go through as a result of these meds and during withdrawal (especially the anxiety, fear, and cortisol rushes) do bring back up the work I have already been doing on these early traumas. And I can work with them further and more deeply. Another thing I've noticed--I've already been aware over the years of my recovery work of what it feels like when my brain rewires and builds new pathways. It's something that I've worked with consciously for many years.

 

Like other survivors of trauma, I experienced so much "structural dissociation" (you can Google that if you want to know more about it), and the bulk of the work has been

 

(a) getting back and integrating these horrific dissociated memories, which involves building new pathways between the limbic system and the frontal cortex, and

 

(b)rewiring my brain to connect my selves and make internal communication and self-soothing and self-nurturing possible--which involves also building many new pathways.

 

And what I have noticed in these intense periods of symptomatic withdrawal is that--from my experience, from my awareness of what it feels like when I am working to reconnect and rewire dissociated areas of my brain--that there is in fact an increase in neuroplasticity and fluidity. It feels less rigid, less difficult to connect separated parts. More fluid. That there is, in fact, for me, and probably for other people, an opportunity to make choices about how our brains rewire, because there's a lot of rewiring happening.

 

This is a massive opportunity for recovery, for anyone. All of us have confusing and scary and traumatic experiences in our past; it's just impossible to grow up in this violent and irrational world without it. And as children we do our best to make sense of these things, but because our insight is limited, we often come to conclusions, and make decisions, that really need to be reframed. (Like Summer saying, in a different thread, that because her mother was unhappy, she herself learned that happiness was not for her, that unhappiness was the way to live. I would suspect also that seeing her mother unhappy every day may have made her feel some grief and frustration that's still part of the picture too.)

 

So--thinking, as I do these days, in terms of neurophysiology and neurochemistry and neuroplasticity--I believe there is a definite, concrete opportunity for growth that comes out of the whole damage/ healing process from these damned meds. Okay, well, I'm not known for being brief, so, long post. But definitely I want to continue thinking about this and continue this conversation. Gotta run to work now. Thank you so much for being you! (ALL of you here too!) :-) --Rhiannon

Edited October 31, 2014 by Petu
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[Healing]

Yes, you had briefly shared your abuse history with me before, and I'm sad and angry about it. It's hard to fathom such trauma. I'm very glad you are healing and able to love life at times. You're a very impressive person. Truly.

 

I was not familiar with the structural dissociation model as put forth by Nijenhuis, Van der Hart, and Steele in their 2006 book "The Haunted Self." It's a thought-provoking interweaving of psychodynamic psychology and neuroscience. I think you're really onto something important with your theory / observations of when the brain is more plastic and self-directed neuroplasticity as described here and on your neuroplasticity topic (which is now in Tapering). You're more aware of changes happening in your brain than most people. There have been a couple of other people I've come across over the years in w/d circles who are highly internally neurologically aware. I'm not as aware, but I have noticed that, when I listen to a lot of theta brain wave entrainment, I get a tickling sensation on my temples just to the side of my eyes. And I've wondered if this is the by-product of unaccustomed activity in the temporal poles [sic].

 

So, to recap what you're saying (to help me think this through) -- you have consciously tried to rewire your brain both to better integrate and to go beyond your childhood trauma. You had already done this successfully for years. Then, you discovered that there are periods during the taper off psych meds when your brain seems easier to rewire by conscious intention and attention -- both with regard to the meds damage and with regard to the early trauma.

 

So, it's weird, paradoxical, ironic, surprising, infuriating that this criminal wrong-doing and neurological insult should contain within it the seed of great healing. This reminds me of the idea that all illness is actually an attempt by the organism to heal itself. You know? How fever, for example, is actually a constructive thing, not just an inconvenient symptom? Kundalini is supposedly like a cosmic physician / brick layer, that gets activated and then rather impersonally sweeps through us, unconcerned with how painful the rebuilding process is for us.

 

Now, an additional point is that K. is an evolutionary force that takes us not only back to factory condition, but back to "fully loaded" factory condition, "back to where you once belonged." IOW, it ultimately returns you to your natural, highly psychic condition -- something which most societies have crushed out of their people. Many shamanic cultures think your "song of power" lies dormant within you, and is awakened by great physical or existential suffering. (Holger Kalweit, Dreamtime and Inner Space, p. 152).

 

Personally, I don't think it *has* to be this way, but I think it often *is* this way because of the aforementioned systematic crushing of personal power. And, as you say, the world is so violent and irrational right now, that it's virtually impossible to grow up without some trauma that needs healing. You mentioned the role of spirituality in making meaning of your two great tragedies. I don't want to proselytize about K. or shamanism. These are just examples of the value of adding a spiritual or transpersonal perspective to profound and mysterious suffering. It's not necessary to have a spiritual / transpersonal perspective to have a good life. But, it's possible that there is a lot more going on than is dreamt of in our philosophy, and that this other level of reality has a lot to offer us -- people who have had extreme experiences.

 

Thank you for being you, too! And for talking about this stuff I love, and for doing so much to nurture our baby board.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Petu
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[Claudius]

Reading these posts, I was really thinking that my/our protracted WD could ay least be some form of Kundalini awakening. And it must be said that the symtomps as described for such an awakening show a scary resembleness with the protracted WD symptoms.

In this article, however, they speak about the "evil twin" of the real Kundalini awakening, namely the destructive force of psychiatric meds. And state that while a "real" Kundalini awakning can be a tough but healing experience, this is not the fact with its evil twin...

 

http://www.elcollie.com/html/Issue9a.html obselete

Working link:  https://elcollie.com/

 

It made me nervous and sad again, because this was at least some straw to clutch to. And makes it even more difficult to get even the slightest positive thing from this horrific experience.

Nevertheless, I try to look at our experience at least as some kind of awakening. And it must be sad, despite the still ongoing symptoms I have such a better and more clever look on many things and my state of being not "aware" for so long, though this creates its own pain. So still a way to go. I am curious if others have some experience with Kundalini and the role of these harmful meds in this awakening process.

Edited May 23, 2022 by manymoretodays
updated link

[Healing]

El Collie is a great writer on Kundalini. I'm glad you discovered her and I recommend a lot of her writings. I think what's extremely valuable about this particular essay of hers is that she totally got how harmful psych meds are -- and this was in 1995. I think a big part of her purpose in writing this was to say that psych meds are not a good path to *choose* in an attempt to bring on a K. awakening.

 

Keep in mind that people will do all sorts of dangerous, unhealthy, extreme things to pursue spiritual growth! But in my readings, I've noticed that a lot of people writing on K. go to great lengths to distinguish K. from other things -- eg it's not the same thing as "true" psychosis, it's not a "real" K. rising if it only goes part way, etc. I think some of this is due to people trying their best to be scientific so they'll be credible. But, I think some of it is due to ego -- eg "I'm going through a real K. rising and that's a rare and special thing."

 

I've come to think of K. (and shamanic initiatory illness) in a very broad way, as a force that is universal, and gets activated in many, many different ways, in many, many people -- but not in everyone. It *is* a developmental potential. Just as some people will learn to empathize with their fellows a lot, and others will only learn to do it a little -- so, K. will be activated more fully in some.

 

There are other writers who talk about K. being activated by alcoholism and drug addiction (the Grofs) without recommending alcoholism and dug addiction. So, you see, that's not so different from psych meds doing the activation. K. *wants* to be activated -- it'll take advantage of whatever comes along -- childbirth, car accident, you name it.

 

I do think, however, that really spelling out the connection between psych med neuro damage / healing and K. awakening is on the agenda for us, Claudius. That may be part of what you and I end up doing with this experience. To help those that come after us.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Petu
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[Healing]

Claudius – I thought you might find this interesting. I pm’d Charly G. in April 09 and asked him if he had considered the apparent parallels between Kundalini and SSRI w/d. This is what he wrote back, and he gave me permission to post it publicly –

 

Unusual problem solving can only happen when you are in a relaxed state of being. And gratefulness helps to get you there. You may have a sudden flash of insight in which direction you should move in order to find new meaning in your life.

What some of us experience(d) might very well have something to do with "Kundalini energy" that's triggered by sudden extreme emotions, though unfortunately severely unstable and thus dangerous.

But if you find a way to allow and direct your emotions in purpose of a higher goal you'll discover they serve your personal and spiritual growth.

Is he smart or what?! Edited August 28, 2013 by Altostrata
name changed by request

[Barbarannamated]

I'm new here but this discussion really resonates w me. I know next to nothing about this area and only since meeting an evolved person exactly one year ago, on my birthday, have I even thought about it. He is someone who clearly remembers his past lives but grew up hiding that as well as other gifts such as clairsentience/voyance. Ironically, shortly after I met him, I found book in my psychiatrist office on HSP by Shafica Karagulla, MD, from Turkey who came to US and Canada to research. She's not the ones who seem to be known for HSP research now, at least in lay public. In reading her book, many things came together for me because of what I had seen with this one person. I said ironic b/c my psych dismissed the book as 'hogwash'.

I've been devouring any info I can find (from what seem to be good sources) and am very cautious b/c I know I am 'impressionable' and trying to find a balance of sorts between my old beliefs (hard science, etc.) and this very new and often scary paradigm shift. I've been surprised to find Roger WALSH, MD, on staff at UCI School of Medicine and also Judith ORLOFF, MD, at UCLA. Dr. Walsh is very open about his past lives and Dr. ORLOFF about her 'second sight' (some of which parallels almost verbatim experiences of person I know).

That this awareness began just as I began to realize the harm of the psych meds has been overwhelming and I don't have support. I feel myself isolating and I'm not clear now on why that is--protracted w/d, this new awareness/belief that would blow my friends and family away, or a combination. It is very strange to see these abilities in another person, but not have them (or be in touch with them yet) myself. I find it interesting that Karagulla, the first book I read on subject, was in same position. She witnessed, researched, and recorded others' gifts, but did not have them herself (to my knowledge).

Thank you for this discussion.

[Nadia]

Interesting... I had not seen this post before, but a couple of weeks ago I came across kundalini awakening when I was researching... yes... urine therapy (this is the state of my desperation). [A few years ago someone had been touting the benefits, and had told me one of the mechanisms that made it work was that the body got feedback about itself... I don't know how that would work exactly, but it was enough for me to want to research it, because it seemed like it might be a way to help my body reach homeostasis. I guess I have not been convinced enough to actually try it, though!] I'm not really sure how I got the the kundalini stuff, but I did find the parallels with withdrawal striking. It seems to me it covers a lot of ground, and that this could be a myriad different conditions summarized into one explanation.

 

However, what I take away from it is the transformative power of crises and suffering. I was thinking that maybe I needed this complete shake up to refocus on things I have lost sight of. And to learn, this time in a more serious and dedicated manner, to take care of myself and find contentment. I have wrestled with my sensitivity and depression all my life, but I have always taken short cuts where I could, gotten lazy as soon as I felt OK. And now I am paying for it. Sometimes I despair that I won't "get there" to a point of happiness, that I won't make the right choices, that I'll hurt others in my path to finding those right choices... but then I remember I just have to find my wise mind, and that things will be what they are and there is no choice but to accept that.

 

I don't believe "everything happens for the best" or that "everything will be fine" always... I have seen too much real suffering and too much tragedy to think that somehow everything will work out always for everyone (especially not how each individual would like it to work out). But pain is a part of life. Which is not to say we must blindly accept it as something that we can't change, OR create new, unnecessary pain by railing against things we really cannot change. I am trying to hold on now to the tranformative power of the pain I am feeling.

 

Someone gave me an Osho tarot... apart from what I think or don't think of Osho, I think it's a pretty good deck. When I asked about what I was going through a couple of months ago, meaning to draw one card, I got two (one dropped out of the deck as I drew the other): one was PAIN. The other was TRANSFORMATION. I think that is what I find significant about kundalini awakening.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Petu
fixed text

[Nadia]

Coincidentally, also, before I knew what was going on with me and I was getting all these weird symptoms and was so worried about trying to get pregnant, I saw the trailer for Miranda July's movie The Future. The website has an "oracle" you can consult, and I got this lovely read:

 

"You fall from a great height. There is no way to prepare for this. It may be the best thing that has ever happened to you."

[Roads]

I read the article of El Collie, and I don't see how it invalidates the fact that psych meds can bring on Kundalini. Basically, he dwells on drugs' side effects, not on protracted withdrawal, which is completely different from the first one. Side effects are induced by the presence of a toxic substance in the body and its entailed dysfonction. Withdrawal is a process of healing and reconstruction of the body, void of the toxic substance. Side effects is a drug-induced process. Withdrawal is a body-induced process; just like Kundalini.

Side effects are a process of destruction death, therefore incompatible with a process of life such as Kundalini. This is what El Collie is talking about. But what about withdrawal, process of life and (re)construction? It is compelling that earthquakes destroy and are intrinsically unable of benefit. But what about the induced reconstruction?

[Altostrata]

To reconstruct, the nervous system must consult its fundamental operating instructions.

[Barbarannamated]

Alto, I think I could figure out your comment if not for the pounding migraine I have. Care to expand on that?

Nadia, thank you for that post. I so easily slip into the 'woe is me' victim role even though I know something much larger is going on. Far too many synchronicities that have challenged every belief system I had.

The most recent strange occurrence was in Nashville a few weeks ago. Checking out shops near Vanderbilt on Sunday afternoon, I came upon a silly little table on the sidewalk w 2 people and a sign 'ARE YOU STRESSED?' or something to that effect. I chuckled to myself and walked to what reminded me of a Guess Your Weight carnival booth, except there was no carnival and no other booths. Talked to the woman for awhile. She launched into how bad psych drugs are, etc. My radar was going up ...'WHO are these people and how did they know what's going on w me??' Then the man joined in and I KNOW THIS GUY. He was so familiar to me, but I know no one in Nashville. Used to live in LA, possibly we crossed paths.... He told me his name, still no connection. Called a friend as soon as I left who recognized the name as the guy who took over Dianetics when L.Ron Hubbard died. Steiner, maybe? I must have seen a book or something w him in it.

I exited when the woman pulled out the book and invited me to their meetings.

I thought to myself 'really? The head of the organization is manning a little card table booth on the sidewalk?' And snagged me. I don't mean to put Dianetics down as I know very little, but i do not need more confusion right now.

It was just another strange occurrence to add to the events of the year.

[Phil]

This is an interesting topic, I had never thought of withdrawal to be the same thing as kundalini. I can say though that w/d has made me pretty crazy.

 

I did a google on it and there's a page here that talks about it in terms of neurobiology:

 

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=KindlingEffect

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php@story=TheNervousSystem.html

 

It mentions how stress hormones are raised, relaxing brain chemicals lowered, etc.

Edited May 23, 2022 by manymoretodays
updated link-may vary a bit from the original now obsolete link

[Barbarannamated]

Interesting ( not that I could comprehend much). Thanks, Phil.

 

Is anyone else's perception of time 'off'? Not sure if this was discussed elsewhere or in DP/DR.

[Shanti]

I just watched a good documentary called "The Horse Boy". It was about an autistic boy and how his parents took him on a journey in Mangolia to visit different Shamans to heal him of his autism. It was very good! Well, the reason I'm posting it is because a psychologist was saying that every Shaman of every tribe, around the world, all has had a life threatening psychological physical illness at some point in their life. I can't remember the term he used, but it was a mind/nervous system illness. Every Shaman has to go through this initiation. It is not the same as Kundalini Rising, but similar and worse. These people put one foot into the realm of the dead and all sorts of realms to experience many levels of consciousness. They often have vivid dreams and hallucinations. They have visits from dead ancestors. And what's amazing is that I posted on here not long ago that I keep dreaming of dead relatives. I met a girl on another withdrawal forum that told me she experiences the same thing. Anyway, just thought it was interesting. I have no doubt this is an pivotal point in my life and I truly feel that when I'm through all this, I'll be a much better person than I was before.

 

mod note: adding in link to The HORSE BOY documentary website- http://horseboymovie.com/Film.php

Edited May 23, 2022 by manymoretodays
added link to The Horse Boy documentary website

[Shanti]

That story gave me chills! That is it. I just KNOW that what it takes to get through this is a breakthrough in the spiritual realm. That's why I posted so about breaking through the astral pit to let the light in. This is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this story.

 

Here is the link. Copy and paste it to the address bar. Where it says "othersite" delete it and type in the name of the other site then hit enter. http://www.othersite.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53563&highlight=good+update

 

Mod Note:  the other site no longer exists

Edited March 23, 2023 by JanCarol
additional info

[Mixter]

Thats very awesome!

 

I think I understand. It's a bit speculative, but I know others have mentioned this for me.

 

It is like an analogy for example, one rubber pipe dragged in and out (the hard way).

 

The side on outside is the good feelings, the other inside is the opposite = bad. Like Yin = bad, negative and Yang = good, positive.

 

Too much yin cause the energies in body (kundalini) to rebalance by itself to realign Yin and Yang energies, on all levels.

 

Withdrawal phenomenon, I think it is a thing to say about this - the rebalancing act.

 

Any more thoughts on this? Very interesting! I also re-read the forum thread again.

[pax80a]

Nice thread...

 

I felt an energy in my back rushing from the but to the neck, i felt this energy 3 times a few years ago, but since then i felt worse, not better like the guy on the othersite. I've been told it's kundalini energy, I wasn't into spiritual stuff back then...

[Altostrata]

Deleted Shanti's off-topic posts on karma as she requested. New topic on karma is here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1478-karma/page__pid__13832#entry13832

[Barbarannamated]

I found some interesting theories on this site:

 

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=TheNervousSystem

 

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php@story=TheNervousSystem.html

 

Just sharing - all new info/concepts to me!

 

NOTE: Just noticed supplements and nutritional regimens buried in there that would NOT be advisable while tapering.

Please EDIT per your discretion, Alto!

Edited May 23, 2022 by manymoretodays
link updated

[hopingtohelp]

Good morning! You will notice I'm ultra new here, this being my first post. I'm here because some time ago I googled "something" and came up with the initiatory post from Silver Star. It resonated, and I printed it. Brief history: Prescribed Prozac in late 1994. On second day experienced what I have come to believe was a Kundalini awakening. 3.5 days later I awoke with the relapse from hell. That was almost 18 years ago (I'm 68), and I'm better but still recovering/integrating. (Currently take 300mg lithium/day and 3.75 mg clorazepate/day; getting off both is harsh, at best, but is still my goal.)

 

Let me cut to the chase. I want to tell Silver Star--and all of you--that the symptoms she describes in her post also fit with another process: trauma recovery, as described by Peter Levine in his book, In an Unspoken Voice. Chapter 6, A Map for Therapy, is particularly on point. He has a "map"/theory, based on the work of Stephen Porges (director of the Brain Body Center at the University of Illinois, Dep't of Psychiatry)that says successfully recovering from debilitating/immobilizing trauma requires one first exit from the "freeze state" and then go through a state of hyper-arousal, before "restoring equilibrium." Well, my new friends, I posit that his described state of hyper-arousal is the state that contains so many of the symptoms on Silver Star's list.

 

If you know you've been significantly traumatized, that's helpful. If you don't know, as I did not, you are more in the dark than you realize. I started therapy at age 27 and have continued to utilize it for most of the last 40 years. Why? Because I couldn't make it without that support. I always wondered why I couldn't "graduate," given my level of effort and commitment. The short answer to my "Why?" question is that I was sexually abused by my dad at a young age and only came to realize that just over a year ago. Approximately sixty-five years of NOT REALIZING! Hence, my current focus on trauma recovery.

 

I believe withdrawing from psychiatric meds, of course including antidepressants, probably facilitates exiting from the freeze/immobilized state and puts one into the hyperaroused state, in which shaking, vibrating, jerking--even convulsing--occur.

 

I'm going to stop for now, but not before telling you I am among the least sophisticated computer users. I am also unfamiliar with a site such as this, AND I'm a terrible typist. All disclaimers at the outset so you will know any mistakes and missteps I make are unintentional and arise, not from intention, but from ignorance. I'm hoping my content is useful to you and encourage you to check out Peter Levine's work (first book, Waking the Tiger is also excellent). It has taken me nearly 18 years to connect the dots, as described in this post. If it helps just one person spend less time suffering needlessly, I will be pleased.

 

I hope I can navigate this site well enough to continue to post. All best!

[Altostrata]

Thanks, hopingtohelp.

 

Please also start an Introductions topic for yourself here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/3-introductions-and-updates/ You can copy and paste much of your above post if you wish.

[hopingtohelp]

Correction to my previous post: the initiatory post was by healing, not Silver Star (I'm learning...).

[Fresh]

There's an interesting article on www.earthweareone.com called "What a Shaman Sees in a Mental Hospital".

[Petunia]

What a Shaman Sees in A Mental Hospital

 

... and if you don't want to read the long article yourself, here is the youtube version

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by manymoretodays
replaced obsolete link to working PDF- What a Shaman Sees in A Mental Hospital

[Fresh]

Lol , thankyou Petunia.  Perhaps we are all healers.

[LoveandLight]

I was pretty sure kundalini was what was happening to me..6 months after I came back from India (and several wacky kundalini ceremonies), I started to have shooting pains up my back and then the whole gamut of other symptoms..I'm now experiencing it all again. I cannot remember if I had stopped the drug back then or was in poop-out. You couldn't make this up. Ha!

[Petunia]

Bonnie  Greenwell - Buddha at the Gas Pump Interview

Bonnie has published several books and articles related to kundalini and spiritual awakening, most recently “The Kundalini Guide” and “The Awakening Guide”, she is a non-dual teacher and a transpersonal therapist who has specialized in working with spiritual emergence issues for 30 years. She was a founder and organizer of the Kundalini Research Network. 

 

In this interview she talks about the kundalini awakening process, and offers tips for how to deal with many of the often uncomfortable and confusing symptoms. Some of what she talks about will be familiar to us going through withdrawal because we share many of the same symptoms which isn't surprising because in both kundalini and recovery from antidepressant withdrawal, it seems that some degree of nervous system 'rewiring' is taking place.

 

[freespirit]

Thanks for sharing this...I watched part of it and thought it was interesting. Christina Grof and her husband were early pioneers in this field in the west. I couldn't find much on the web, but they co-wrote couple of books, one called "the stormy search for the self". Would definitely not recommend their process of Holotropic breathwork to people in WD though.

 

I find it much more helpful to see wd in a light of spiritual process, rather than illness. Shifting one's view helps in living through the symptoms..ie. they have a purpose, and not just there to torture us.

[Scrountz]

I see no one has posted in this thread for a while, but I've got to say, discovering it has been timely for me, as I believe the last few days for me (and perhaps the next however many before this process is done) are best explained using the concept of a spiritual emergency, kundalini awakening or some other type of radical or transformative psychospiritual healing.

 

I'm no stranger to trauma work or the pursuit of healing. I've been in therapy for several years now and have done much work to excavate and heal the traumatizing wounds of my past. I've had processed through many flashbacks, combatted my inner critic, and fought my way through difficult experiences to eek out some type of healing. What I'm saying is that I didn't expected to be surprised by the depth and profundity of the experiences I've been going through, as I thought I was already initiated into the realm of trauma work.

 

I had an ADR to Fluoxetine after 30 days of prescribed use. It manifested as a crippling, suicidal depression unlike anything I've experienced outside the realm of psychiatric drug use, and I immediately knew it was the medication. While I briefly considered the possibility of tapering or reinstating at a reduced dose, I found myself intolerable to the idea of continuing to take meds and CTed. I felt safe enough doing this given Fluoxetine's long half life, but it seems the ADR had initiated a syndrome not dissimilar to what other's experience, with protracted symptoms occurring months out.

 

And so having read of other's experiences on this site, I did my best to accept my fate, grit my teeth and ride out the awful waves of random emotions, intense body sensations and disturbing psychological phenomena. For the past few months, despite it being absolutely horrific at times, I've made it through and mostly kept my sanity.

 

A few days ago, however, new feelings emerge. The experience felt different than it previously had. Whereas before, I didn't recognize the feelings as "mine" and never felt I could process anything out of them, suddenly I was possessed by the feeling that I needed to confront these feelings and talk through them. It's as though my trauma has reemerged, 1000 times more intense than it has before, and that I've had no choice but to work to integrate previously deeply disavowed parts of myself. The experience has been harrowing, at times deeply disturbing, unspeakably difficult, and ultimately I think healing. I can't deny that what I'm doing is working through actual trauma, trauma that has felt for years too stuck to confront and too difficult to process. And I'm actually doing it. The whole experience, as insane as it has been, has a numinous quality to it that is undeniable.

 

I dont know that I'm doing this justice through my words, but the initial post in this thread describes many symptoms I strongly relate to. A feeling of being possessed by something inside of myself, feeling like I'm going crazy, intense changes in my state of consciousness and the emergence of terribly strong and difficult to experience feelings. Alongside this is a change in my sleep pattern and host of physical symptoms: appetite changes, parasthesia, myalgias, dizziness.

 

Anyway I think I really needed to read this post. I was starting to feel very concerned about what's been happening to me. The experience has been all consuming and impossible to ignore. I've had to take days off work and have been unable to function normally. While I have some faith in myself to get through this experience, it's been coupled by a terrible sense of its impossibility, a real feeling that I might not make it and might die (psychologically more than anything). It's taken an incredible stretch of my normal capacity of integration to stay open to what's happening to me, and I continue to feel worried about what's going to come next, as I don't think it's done. It's encouraging to see that others relate and that I've found something that seems to explain what I'm going through. I hope in time I'm able to fully go through this experience and integrate it into my life.