How to calculate dosages and dilutions? Spreadsheets and calculators

[ThroughTheForceField]

You're welcome. I made that keeping in mind that people would want to go down in no lesser than multiples of 0.01mg. So, your goal might be to taper down from 25mg to 23.5 mg or 22.21mg, but not 22.237mg. If you wanted something like 22.237mg, the previous code would still work but the precise values won't be that precise. I can't see why someone would want to go down to something like 22.237mg anyway (it's a different thing if a volume you take gives that, but not the goal of tapering down).

 

In any case, I should have raised an Exception keeping that in mind, so that a person can't use more than 2 digits after the decimal place in the drug weight they require. It'll just make the code longer and longer if I start putting every triviality in. If anyone wants that though, here it is:

def voltotake(med_wt,med_needed,max_vol=120,approx=0.008):
    if len(str(med_needed).split('.'))>1:
        if len(str(med_needed).split('.')[1])>2:
            raise Exception("Please don't enter more than 2 digits after the decimal in the drug weight you require.")
    print('Precise Values:')
    for vol_take in range(1,max_vol+1):
        conc, med_rmv = med_wt/vol_take, med_wt - med_needed
        vol_rmv = med_rmv/conc
        if abs(round(vol_rmv,1) - round(vol_rmv,3))==0:
            med_act_wt = med_wt - (round(vol_rmv,1)*conc)
            print('volume_to_take:', vol_take, 'volume_to_remove:', round(vol_rmv,1), 'consumption_weight:', med_act_wt)
    print('\nApproximate Values:')
    for vol_take in range(1,max_vol+1):
        conc, med_rmv = med_wt/vol_take, med_wt - med_needed
        vol_rmv = med_rmv/conc
        if 0.0001<=abs(round(vol_rmv,1)-round(vol_rmv,3))<=approx:
            med_act_wt = med_wt - round(vol_rmv,1)*conc
            print('volume_to_take:', vol_take, 'volume_to_remove:', round(vol_rmv,1), 'actual_consumption_weight:', med_act_wt)

voltotake(300,293)

 

[Luciana]

I don't see mention in this thread of using a powder filler (e.g., magnesium powder or calcium powder) to add bulk to your ground up pills to get to more accurate weights. Is there a reason that's not mentioned? Or did I just not find it?

What I mean is, say you are nearing the end of your taper and you want to weigh out 0.01 g. But the Gemini scale has a margin of error of .005 g. So that means you could be 50% off in your weighing. 

 

But you could add nine times your medication weight in filler powder. And say you made 10 doses at once. So that would be .1 g total of the med plus .9 g of the filler = 1 g. You mix it all up and then weigh out 10 doses from the mix, each weighing .1 g. Now if your dose is off by .005 g, it's off by only 5%, not 50%. 

 

The only problem is if you didn't mix them up evenly. Maybe that's why it's not discussed on this forum?

 

I got this idea from the Withdrawal Project, but they didn't give example numbers. I thought it through and decided that a ratio of 9:1 for filler to medication made sense. 

[brassmonkey]

@Luciana  I think the technique has been overlooked while we pursued the use of liquids. This would work pretty much the same way, just the medium would be different.

 

I see two potential problems. One of which you have mentioned, getting the materials totally mixed. Time, method and amount would be the driving factors for that.

 

The second problem would be for people who are crushing existing tablets. Making sure that they crush things fine enough to mix well.  Also, some medications have coatings tend to stay in large chunks that would need to be removed before mixing.

 

I wouldn't use magnesium powder because it has medical properties of its own. There are a number of different things that could be used, cornstarch and powdered sugar are the two most common that come to mind. Both are easily available and would have little or no effect on the mixture produced.

 

Your calculations look good, and I like the reasoning behind the weights you used.

 

I think you should follow up on the idea and let us know how things progress.

[Luciana]

45 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

I think you should follow up on the idea and let us know how things progress.

Thanks, I'll let you know if I do. I haven't started a taper yet and this wouldn't be necessary until the late stages, so it would be a while. 

If making your own liquid is tried and true, I might just go with that. 

[HopefulRecovery]

Hi, I'm back using amitriptyline, and, once again, want to see how I do off the medication. But this time, I'm not going to rush it.

 

I'm currently on 25 mg. I'm going to do the water method using 25 ml water to make the calculations easier for me.

 

I like the updated for 2020 spreadsheet.  But it doesn't give me the amount to remove (none of the spreadsheets did that). And I was thinking that might be easier than removing the amount I want to take. I did find a 25ml pipette.

 

Question #1: I added in the calculation (yellow highlight in picture below) to just subtract the new dose amount from 25 mg. It seems right to me, but just wanted to check it out.

 

Question #2: It seems too hard to figure out these odd decimal amounts, like .78 and .15. How should I handle that?

 

Question #3: Is it better to take the amount I want than the amount I want to remove?

 

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

Susan

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Can anyone answer @HopefulRecovery's questions?

[ThroughTheForceField]

On 7/22/2023 at 12:09 AM, HopefulRecovery said:

Hi, I'm back using amitriptyline, and, once again, want to see how I do off the medication. But this time, I'm not going to rush it.

 

I'm currently on 25 mg. I'm going to do the water method using 25 ml water to make the calculations easier for me.

 

I like the updated for 2020 spreadsheet.  But it doesn't give me the amount to remove (none of the spreadsheets did that). And I was thinking that might be easier than removing the amount I want to take. I did find a 25ml pipette.

 

Question #1: I added in the calculation (yellow highlight in picture below) to just subtract the new dose amount from 25 mg. It seems right to me, but just wanted to check it out.

 

Question #2: It seems too hard to figure out these odd decimal amounts, like .78 and .15. How should I handle that?

 

Question #3: Is it better to take the amount I want than the amount I want to remove?

 

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

Susan

 

 

 

 

 

@HopefulRecovery

 

Just use this. Also, the way to deal with those small decimals is to take values close to them which can be removed in multiples of 0.1ml from your solution. For instance, in cycle 3, instead of doing 18.23, you could do 18.2 which in order to get, would require you to remove 6.8ml of solution from 25ml.

 

You could also dissolve your 25mg pill in 34ml water and remove 9.2ml to get 18.235mg. There are many variations possible. Just use the program I wrote. All instructions are given in the post I've linked.

 

Keep in mind that different dilutions will make you feel different. Just because you want to make your calculations easier, dissolving 25mg in 25ml water may or may not be the best choice. You have to find the dilution that best works for you through trial and error. That is why I wrote the program I did.

[DailyRecovery31]

...

[DailyRecovery31]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:42 PM, ThroughTheForceField said:

@HopefulRecovery

 

Just use this. Also, the way to deal with those small decimals is to take values close to them which can be removed in multiples of 0.1ml from your solution. For instance, in cycle 3, instead of doing 18.23, you could do 18.2 which in order to get, would require you to remove 6.8ml of solution from 25ml.

 

You could also dissolve your 25mg pill in 34ml water and remove 9.2ml to get 18.235mg. There are many variations possible. Just use the program I wrote. All instructions are given in the post I've linked.

 

Keep in mind that different dilutions will make you feel different. Just because you want to make your calculations easier, dissolving 25mg in 25ml water may or may not be the best choice. You have to find the dilution that best works for you through trial and error. That is why I wrote the program I did.

could you highlight the area of the spreadsheet, where I need to change?

[ThroughTheForceField]

13 hours ago, DailyRecovery31 said:

could you highlight the area of the spreadsheet, where I need to change?

Hello, I just checked the sheet out. You don't need to change anything. In the code, just use voltotake(25,18.23) for cycle 3, voltotake(25,16.4) for cycle 4 etc.

[ThroughTheForceField]

Another thing I would like to say is (and this comes from my experience switching back and forth between liquid and solid lamotrigine), if your body is already used to solid pills, don't liquify the whole pill at once. It's okay for some drugs (depending on the person), but when I switched instantly back from liquid to solid lamotrigine, it had disastous consequences. I realised I have to switch back very slowly in incremental amounts.

 

What I'm saying is, if you're taking 25mg of a pill, it may be a good idea to cut it into fourths of 6.25mg each. If you want to take 22.5mg, take 6.25mg x 3 = 18.75mg solid (as earlier), and the remaining 6.25mg, liquify that and remove 2.5mg from that to get 3.75mg.

 

So, you get 18.75mg solid + 3.75mg liquid ultimately for a total of 22.5mg of the drug. Just a suggestion.

 

So, for cycle 1, you can do voltotake(6.25,3.75), for cycle 2 voltotake(6.25,1.5) and so on.

[Cheeky]

Hey everyone, 

I’ve been doing a daily micro taper as I seem to tolerate that better. So basically I’m doing 6% per month but I won’t to taper daily .  Is there a a spreadsheet for that ? 

[hayduke]

1 hour ago, Cheeky said:

Hey everyone, 

I’ve been doing a daily micro taper as I seem to tolerate that better. So basically I’m doing 6% per month but I won’t to taper daily .  Is there a a spreadsheet for that ? 

You can try playing with formulas in the spreadsheet if your maths is ok.  I used to generate columns of "ideal" taper graphs with a formula, to copy and paste into the planned dose column, and then record my actual dosage taken in yet another column.

[Cheeky]

10 hours ago, hayduke said:

You can try playing with formulas in the spreadsheet if your maths is ok.  I used to generate columns of "ideal" taper graphs with a formula, to copy and paste into the planned dose column, and then record my actual dosage taken in yet another column.

I wish I was  good at things like that but unfortunately I’m not . 
So basically I need to find someone that is talented in excel spreadsheets to help

me out . 
I think it would be good to add to the other spreadsheets in this topic when I have it done . 

[brassmonkey]

Multiply your current dose by 99.83 to get your new dose. This will give you a 6% reduction in 30 days.

[Cheeky]

1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

Multiply your current dose by 99.83 to get your new dose. This will give you a 6% reduction in 30 days.

Thanks you will give it a try 

[Catina7]

The Healing America Now website has a super easy bead counter calculator that looks really helpful!  Even though it's for Cymbalta, you can use it for any drug that has tiny beads inside the capsule.  All you have to do is enter your average bead count, the % rate of your taper, and the days you want to hold between tapers and it calculates the entire process for you.  Just wanted to share this for anyone who is bad at math like I am!

 

Calculator for Bead Counting