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julianfrancois

confronting the doctor that damaged you

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julianfrancois

let me preface this by saying this post is more about any iatrogenic illness rather than just psychotropic withdrawal.

as the months go by, I find myself fluctuating between acceptance and complete frustration and misery with my condition. sometimes it develops into full blown hate and aggression to the PA who prescribed me accutane to be specific. i feel less anger towards my psychiatrists i think because they understood how much mental unrest i was experiencing originally with OCD and subsequently with the withdrawal from meds. if anything its a manageable frustration that motivates me to become an activist for less reliance on meds. but I knew the potential adverse effects that accutane had. I did all my research but I was so ready for an excuse to take it and get rid of my bad skin once and for all. that PA prayed on my vulnerability and swore there would be no consequences despite my concerns. Im starting to realize that at some point I absolutely have to confront her to let her know what my life has become because of her negligence for the sake of her future patients and some closure in my life. however, I find the idea of the confrontation to be very harrowing borderline traumatic. this was a pivotal time in my life and her response symbolizes the cost by which I lost control of it. will she own up, be empathetic, and take the appropriate amount of responsibility, or will she blame it completely on me relying on her medical "expertise" to divert blame from her practice and the drug? will her response elicit forgiveness in me, or will it further my disdain and regret? this almost feels like a duty of mine. I cannot die without getting my revenge in a sense. I respect my existence too much to let the damage just be done so to speak. I feel a deep need to do this in order to make peace with the damage that I unintentionally caused myself. I feel so much anger about it.

 

any experiences in confronting doctors out there about personal damages? similar thought processes? stories?

love to read them.

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JanCarol

I cannot pick just one doctor.  Do I pick the one that ripped out this organ?  Or that one?  What about the one who did a sloppy job and took out everything when he could've left some very important things behind?  What about the first one that put me on psych drugs?  The second? The third?  The fourth?  The fifteenth?  (I don't know how many really there were who threw psych drugs my way).  Or do I just go after the one who gave me the lithium, that seemed to break the camel's back?

 

I'm still working with that one, and my attitude is:  I will SHOW her that I didn't need it, by getting better.  I think that's the best thing I can do - and it gives me hope, if I can do it, maybe others can do it, and maybe she can learn how to help us, as she is learning my protocol as I go through it.

 

I'm "below therapeutic dose" now, most docs would just say quit at this point.  But I'm going to taper until the bitter (or happy) ending, and show her 1 - that it can be done, and 2 - the drug is worse than the problem.

 

Then there's the one who put me on statins.  Next time I see her, I will be telling her that the statins and the PPI were as responsible for my suicidal ideation as any "bipolar disorder" stuff.  And that I will never take a statin again, because suicide is more dangerous than cholesterol.  And I'm TERRIFIED of that meeting.  It may be the last time I see her.  Depending on how she responds.  Or reacts (more likely)

 

But you're right - I think they do need to know.  And in a psycho-babble kind of way, closure can feel good.  But sometimes it's not appropriate.  If there is trauma, anxiety, deliberate harm done - I'd be more than willing to walk away before going back to that doc.  Then, maybe, a letter is a better idea?  Make it short and sweet, so they will read it all, and maybe it will plant a seed that they might understand later, even if they cannot understand it now.

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julianfrancois

you're right. I suppose a lot of people who suffer from PAWS  have a few bones to pick with a few doctors and picking one maybe pointless, but I like that you want to show the doctor who has damaged you with meds that you don't need them to function; that you can recover without them. it's that gnawing desire to fix the system and its fucked up ways. to prove that their methods are flawed. lead by example. 

 

but it sounds to me like you share the same fears in confronting the doctor who gave you statins. I dont think I would ever be able to discuss in person with that PA who gave me accutane. in person arguments are no longer my strong suit. my mind is too flustered and fogged to articulate myself appropriately and the anxiety of her reaction and response would only worsen it. I have to write a letter in order to collect my thoughts and avoid any possible argumentative defeat or trauma. I also worry about any unseen violence that might occur. the rage I feel reminds me of that of beatrix kiddo's from kill bill. and Im not trying to fillet everyone in that dermatology office. it's definitely best to write a letter. 

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Meimeiquest

A few weeks ago I wrote the gp who didn't tell me my creatinine level was elevated. I wrote via the "patient portal" that this was why I left his practice, yadda, yadda. I am surprised how much closure it gave me. But it's a much less emotional issue than the pdoc's...still thinking about that.

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crimsonking

Hey julianfracois, I'm a post accutane sufferer too. All my problems with depression, anxiety, learning difficulties, loss of ability to feel, love, derelization, sexual problems, that all started after Accutane. 8 years ago. Psych meds just finished the job and left me totally ruined. Sometimes I think it's good that I don't have a gun, sometimes I just want to shot the derm that gave me this poison. I don't have such feelings towards p-docs, they're just stupid jerks. If you want to talk, feel free to pm me, take care

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westcoast

I can't even think about the glib idiot who didn't take a proper history and find out my mania began had begun in Effexor WD, who kept me on drugs after I had a seizure in her office, who didn't recognize my akathisia, and who didn't warn me about Chantix (unbidden wishes to kill myself for a few days) or Lithium (gained 60 lbs.) $350 for a MISSED appointment, too.

I don't want to talk to her. I'd rather rent a billboard.

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WinstonWolf

I am with you on this for sure.

 

I've had MANY pdocs and some had great 'bedside manner', some were truly empathetic, some though out of the box, but then there's the rest of them.  My current pdoc is someone who does more harm than good.  Yes, she sees me for next to nothing because of my current financial situation.  That is generosity for sure.  But if she's harming me I think the net effect is pretty bad.  

 

My requirements are fairly straight forward: look at me when I speak, stop completing forms related to other patients while in my presence, show that you know the first thing about my history, etc.  She does none of this basically.

 

So, when I said I want off AD's (after 20 years) she said this is worth a try as she's not seen any improvement while on any of them.  But, when she told me I will be back on the AD's eventually I asked why she thought that.  Because everyone does she replied.  So you are saying you've never had a patient discontinue AD's and find other ways to cope…NEVER she said.  

 

I want to tell her (write her?) to tell her she needs to retire and while she's spending her new found free time she should consider the damage done and maybe find a way to help in some way. I know she'll write me off as unappreciative, insensitive, acting out, etc. I don't care, I just think the madness needs to stop.

 

WW

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freespirit

This is a very timely topic for me, as I'm considering confronting my current doc regarding the ways he views me. I realize in many respects, he is the lightning rod for lousy treatment by several of the docs I've had since I lived here...who have seriously been the worst I've ever seen in my life. But this guy has become a big thorn in my side.

 

A few years ago, I was doing fine emotionally, but experiencing a lot of muscle pain. I went to see him and without asking a single question of how I was doing, announced I was depressed and tried to send me to a psych. When I came home and read her reviews, I called back and declined the referral. I started seeing a naturopath instead, who was able to help a lot with pain and fatigue. Thank god I never took that referral..who knows what I might have ended up on??

 

I already posted this on my thread..but just last week, I went to see him and told him everything I'm doing. Healthy diet, exercise 6 days a week, meditation, significant weight loss (very much needed), how I walked nearly every day through the winter, working in my garden, etc. I told him I no longer suffer from depression, feel infinitely better in every respect being off meds (no use telling him about wd I figure) He grabs his prescription pad and says to me, "what about mood, you seem down today". I was too flummoxed to respond at the time and came away furious. This has been an ongoing issue, where he seems to only be able to see me from one viewpoint, which is wrong. Is it because I'm a quieter person who doesn't jump up and down? Of course if I did that, I'd no doubt be seen as bipolar. I hate, just hate, that doctors and psychs feel the need to medicate every single emotion...and only certain ones or ways of being are deemed acceptable.

 

But I'm also thinking of the doc who first put me on AD in 2005. At that point, I'd recently developed pretty severe arthritis in my neck and was feeling low about not being able to do physical things I normally could. I'd also been having more sleep issues, and was feeling exhausted all the time. It turned out that part was due to sleep apnea, not depression, as he thought. His response to me was "all women are tired". He has since moved to another province, but a letter is always possible.

 

I suspect in both these situations, my concerns will be dismissed by the docs in question. It will be easier for them to see me as a mentally screwed up person, pat themselves on the back..and go on doing what they've always done...which is to play god and seriously mess people up. AD nearly took my life, first through wanting to commit suicide on an almost continual basis..and then, gaining a ton of weight and developing multiple additional health issues. Yes, pharma is responsible..and so are the docs who are pill pushers, without a conscience.

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WinstonWolf

Freespirit,

 

Glad you finally got off the remeron.  I remember my year of remeron..

 

Your story regarding your doctor is very similar to mine (and thousands/million of others').  They are 'one trick ponies' in that they really only have one comeback for almost any situation.  They do what they do.  I have to believe these docs know they are sheisters but can't afford to look in the mirror.  It's my goal to hold a mirror up to them.  

 

It's now about 20-30 years after prozac was introduced to the world.  We know so much more now (thanks largely to the internet).  It's time to question the bs.  It's also time the doctors question pharma and the profession.  If that means making 50% less revenue, so be it.  

 

WW

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Cyrosp

At this point, right this minute, I'm feeling good. BUT this thread really got me thinking about my doctor now, and those in my past. I decided on my own to go off Effexor and to try to get off Wellbutrin in the future. My blood pressure and cholesterol were both getting higher and higher. And I was having bouts of rage that were really scary to me and to my family.

 

I've been fat my whole adult life and never had BP or cholesterol issues until I was on the Effexor/Wellbutrin combo. But my doctor blames it all on my weight. So i'm off Effexor, surviving crazy withdrawal crap, still teaching and still being a reasonably good parent, and I go see her. She basically said, well you will probably have to go back on it. AAARRRGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

She asked how I'm feeling and I told her I have more energy than before, I'm sleeping better than I have in years, my BP is lower (still high, but a big improvement). I have surges of grief about once a day that are unpredictable but are over within about three to five minutes. She said, "Can you live with that?" 

 

I just felt totally unsupported and like she has no clue what is going on. And feel like she just wants me to shut up and take my pills. I'm guessing she did not mean to seem that way, but it's how it felt.

 

I'm proud of myself. I've had a heck of a year--adjusted to my daughter (who is my friend and source of stability) leaving for college, finalized the adoption of our seven year old foster child, kept my son in high school and getting passing grades when he really didn't care, taught special education with very few absences, and took a 30 week series of college classes required for my job, AND got myself off of one of my antidepressants. I'm freakin' amazing. If I cry five minutes a day, big deal!!!!

 

So, this may be partially related to this whole thread, and partially a rant at the whole stupid situation. Thanks for listening. Reading people's posts on here really helps me when I feel like I'm ready to fall apart. 

 

Cyrosp

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WinstonWolf

Cyrosp,

 

Sounds like you are 'doing it'. You're toughing it out and living, congrats.

 

WW

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Cyrosp

Cyrosp,

 

Sounds like you are 'doing it'. You're toughing it out and living, congrats.

 

WW

THANKS. Also I'm fully aware that everyone here is doing something amazing in surviving these meds and the efforts to get off of them. Everyone's challenge is so different, plus the challenges can change from day to day, or minute to minute at times. Have to share that yesterday I was so down. Managed work but started crying as soon as I was in the car. My seven year old asked me what was wrong, and I toid her, "I just need to cry." She's great. She said ok and left it at that. I felt better in an hour or so, but it felt like forever. 

Hang in there, folks. We can do this.

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btdt

If we lived in an alternate universe where 

A) money did not exist

B) power between humans and value was = 

C) the idea of science was to advance all of humanity

D) there were no such thing as lawyers judges courts and no need for them

 

Then in that case I would like to speak to a few of my doctors and I would like them to speak to me to offer advice after they had all talked to each other to sort out how I got here and how best to bring me back to health.  In such a world it would make sense for all to speak openly to each other.  

 

Tell me if I am wrong but at this point I have a adversarial relationship with doctors as none know my entire story and none care to hear it I acknowledge this ... they pretend to want to know but it is truly too long and complex and I lose them early on I know this too.  They don't have the facts of the situation from the drug side and they don't want them... they want only to do the job they were trained to do the way they were trained to do it... in those parameters we will never fit... never have an = decent conversation tho it may appear that way. 

 

After you have been hurt by one drug and more drugs make you worse leading to hypersensitivity to many drugs and many reactions the doctors office becomes a place of anxiety... as I try to present my case for not wanting to take a treatment based on previous drug reactions... I don't know how many I am up to at this point in the area of 10-15 drug reactions many to common drugs where reactions are stated to be rare.  When one drug a doc can give can change who you are and have you not be aware of it... and they won't acknowledge it.. where does that leave any doc patient relationship.. BROKEN that is where... going only when I have to and knowing the power they have to harm.. has often be greater than the power they have to heal... fear is sure a part of seeing any doctor.  

 

The only things that allows me to be able to see any doc at any time is the law that I can refuse treatment... should that all change I think I would just skip the doc office altogether... I have been thru the trying to understand and talk this over with docs they can't say much as they have to think of being sued... where does that leave us. I would rather not talk then to force them to tell me a bunch of lies and make a new dx about how crazy I am because I think there is such a thing as withdrawal :).. nope not how I want to spend the day.

 

This leaves post marketing in trouble and the way science learns in trouble too as no results are found about these drugs no honest ones cause you can't tell that doc the truth he will lock you up and force drug you or give you yet another dx based on the dsm had that lots wrong dx... so pharma comes here to learn .

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compsports

Yeah, it sure would be nice of docs talked to each other to sort out patient issues and bring them back to life.   That is the real coordinated care that is needed and not the BS mental health care that has been integrated into PCP's offices.

 

You nailed it about the doctor's place being a source of anxiety when you have had horrible reactions to meds and the issue of harm becomes greater than the power to heal.   That is exactly how I feel and I have nowhere near the amount of troubles you have had.   I feel like that weird patient even from the research I have done, many people are quite sensitive to meds.

 

God, I hate the bleeping lies too and like you would rather not ask questions that I know will lead to them.   And like you, I am very guarded in which I disclose out of fear of being labeled with an MI.

 

If we lived in an alternate universe where 

A) money did not exist

B) power between humans and value was = 

C) the idea of science was to advance all of humanity

D) there were no such thing as lawyers judges courts and no need for them

 

Then in that case I would like to speak to a few of my doctors and I would like them to speak to me to offer advice after they had all talked to each other to sort out how I got here and how best to bring me back to health.  In such a world it would make sense for all to speak openly to each other.  

 

Tell me if I am wrong but at this point I have a adversarial relationship with doctors as none know my entire story and none care to hear it I acknowledge this ... they pretend to want to know but it is truly too long and complex and I lose them early on I know this too.  They don't have the facts of the situation from the drug side and they don't want them... they want only to do the job they were trained to do the way they were trained to do it... in those parameters we will never fit... never have an = decent conversation tho it may appear that way. 

 

After you have been hurt by one drug and more drugs make you worse leading to hypersensitivity to many drugs and many reactions the doctors office becomes a place of anxiety... as I try to present my case for not wanting to take a treatment based on previous drug reactions... I don't know how many I am up to at this point in the area of 10-15 drug reactions many to common drugs where reactions are stated to be rare.  When one drug a doc can give can change who you are and have you not be aware of it... and they won't acknowledge it.. where does that leave any doc patient relationship.. BROKEN that is where... going only when I have to and knowing the power they have to harm.. has often be greater than the power they have to heal... fear is sure a part of seeing any doctor.  

 

The only things that allows me to be able to see any doc at any time is the law that I can refuse treatment... should that all change I think I would just skip the doc office altogether... I have been thru the trying to understand and talk this over with docs they can't say much as they have to think of being sued... where does that leave us. I would rather not talk then to force them to tell me a bunch of lies and make a new dx about how crazy I am because I think there is such a thing as withdrawal :).. nope not how I want to spend the day.

 

This leaves post marketing in trouble and the way science learns in trouble too as no results are found about these drugs no honest ones cause you can't tell that doc the truth he will lock you up and force drug you or give you yet another dx based on the dsm had that lots wrong dx... so pharma comes here to learn .

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freespirit

I haven't been through a fraction of what you have btdt, but definitely share your anxiety about seeing a doctor. For me, it isn't just about the drugs that have damaged me, but more about what I feel is a betrayal of trust. I start getting more and more miserable as the day approaches to see a doctor, or even in having a blood test. Unfortunately, this feeling sometimes carries over into seeing health professionals who have nothing to do with these issues...and they are dentists or docs that have treated me only with care and respect. I can feel my edge when I go into the office and spend a lot of time trying to talk myself down.

 

I can't even remember right now what drug it was...but I was put on something and had massive side effects. When I went in and told the doc, I was told "that isn't even possible". I tried to explain I've always been sensitive to medications...but the doc looked at me like I had 2 heads. I've met so many people who share this sensitivity, but each of us is treated as though we are unique in that regard and therefore, from another planet.

 

It's probably way too much to ask, but I'd like to find a doc that isn't an automatic pill pusher..and someone I don't find overly offensive. I wish I could delete from my medical history that I ever took AD...so I could be seen for who I am, and not just a depressed person.

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btdt

I haven't been through a fraction of what you have btdt, but definitely share your anxiety about seeing a doctor. For me, it isn't just about the drugs that have damaged me, but more about what I feel is a betrayal of trust. I start getting more and more miserable as the day approaches to see a doctor, or even in having a blood test. Unfortunately, this feeling sometimes carries over into seeing health professionals who have nothing to do with these issues...and they are dentists or docs that have treated me only with care and respect. I can feel my edge when I go into the office and spend a lot of time trying to talk myself down.

 

I can't even remember right now what drug it was...but I was put on something and had massive side effects. When I went in and told the doc, I was told "that isn't even possible". I tried to explain I've always been sensitive to medications...but the doc looked at me like I had 2 heads. I've met so many people who share this sensitivity, but each of us is treated as though we are unique in that regard and therefore, from another planet.

 

It's probably way too much to ask, but I'd like to find a doc that isn't an automatic pill pusher..and someone I don't find overly offensive. I wish I could delete from my medical history that I ever took AD...so I could be seen for who I am, and not just a depressed person.

I had a reaction to lidocaine before that we thought it was the epinephrine in the freezing... so that is two at the dentist.. I could not walk a straight line for 3 months had to see an eye specialist have a brain scan blah blah blah... 

I was told the reaction was impossible too.. I still had it.  A year later a test to see if I had developed an allergy to lidocaine showed i did not tho I had a sever pain in my head right after the pin prick... so I am left vulnerable to future dental reactions ... tho I do not have lidocaine I had marcaine suddenly withing 20 min had  shoulder pain next day kidney pain back to the hosp.. they did not know what it was maybe an infection... lol 

 

Post lidocaine reaction study for allergy doc stated it was her opinion I had a transient ischemic attack ... just at the same time I was given a lidocaine injection... 

 

I thought this unlikely but they can say anything they want.. and they do. I do not feel it was a TIA I feel it was a drug reaction and because she did not take the head pain I had seriously I am still left open for more reactions. That in fact pisses me off. 

Jacked up to see doctors you bet the dentist is like walking the plank at this point I avoid him as much as possible. Does he get it no he doesn't thinks me mad I am sure...lol 

I think he is mad I think the system is mad but nobody cares what I think.

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btdt

The entire idea of psych patients not thinking right and having an off perspective of everything plays right into this entire story... organic illness of the mind taught doctors things in history that they built a professional life on. 

 

Enter those of us who did not have organic illness who were given prozac for pain had a reaction continued to be drugged to stay out of wd... it does not matter the dentist or any other doc is not interested in any of that or wd.. they only see... psych dx and that is it... lumped into the crazy pile they have golf to get to... and a life and yes I am just jealous I don't have one you bet you sweet ass I am jealous. 

 

We are all in the same pot .. any psych dx mixes us with murders ect... less then second class less liable to tell the truth or know what the truth is. 

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