GardeniaBlossom: 16 years on/ 8 months off

[GardeniaBlossom]

The last few days I've been trying to remain vertical meaning not lie in bed all day. I've only been partly successful. I've spent at least part of the day in bed. Otherwise I feel like I'm in another world. A different reality. Like I'm not on earth but somewhere else. I'm having a hard time coping and don't want to try anymore. I've been trying really hard for awhile, and I don't seem to be doing that good of a job. I'm still alive. So, I have accomplished that at least. This is too hard. I'm a frightening mess. I've been trying to get chores done, listen to healing music and distract myself with movies. Otherwise, I just don't know what to do with myself, how to come out of this, or get to a more stable place. This is rocky and scary.

 

Do you have any suggestions on how to cope?

[Iamfine]

We have similar backgrounds (see my signature). I am not completely off like you but I am taking a tiny fraction of what I was just two years ago. I have found a place of relative peace and it's hard for me to take the next step to completely get off. The memory of tha pain and anguish are still fresh on my mind and I'm scared to rock the boat at this point. Many of these drugs are evil, and I feel that my prescriber for many of those years was evil too. For the first ten or so years of my being over medicated the advice was to increase or add drugs instead of lessen them. And I followed the instructions like a good patient, never questioning and following blindly. Good luck to you, and you will get there.

 

Mike

[freespirit]

It sounds like you are coping GB. It's all very trying at times. I think listening to what you need is very important..whether it's rest, distraction, or doing things you enjoy. None of it will fix the process, but will help keep things moving along..and as bearable as is possible. I've found the otherworldly feelings to be disturbing at times...and in some moments, a welcome relief. I think all we can do is ride the waves as best we can. No easy task.

[GardeniaBlossom]

Mike, thank you. Yes, it seems we do have a similar history with the psych meds. Thanks for offering your insight. I appreciate it. 

[GardeniaBlossom]

Thank you, freespirit. I appreciate your words of wisdom, support and encouragement. I just wish I knew what to do to improve more quickly. This is so painful and sometimes feels like it will never end.  

[freespirit]

I get it...we all wish there was a faster and easier way. And it does sometimes feel it will go on forever. I stopped the month before you did, so we are similar on that count. I've had some times of feeling I was ready to rejoin the human race in some fashion...only to be followed by days of hardly being able to get out of the house (or not at all). Today I was giving a tailgater the finger while I was driving..very nice for a 60 year-old-woman...just feeling grumpy about life in general and someone driving too close was all it took to set me off. Yes, I too, wish things were easier.

[GardeniaBlossom]

Yes, I too have felt at times that I might be able to actually rejoin the human race, and then. .. BAM! I'm right back where I started. I laughed out loud when I read that you'd given a tailgater the middle finger! We all feel it necessary to express our feelings in healthy ways. (I count that as healthy. It didn't hurt anyone.) I hope it didn't get you into any trouble. 

 

Thank you for telling me you get it. This all makes sense to you. And you feel the same, too. It helps me not feel so alone.

[freespirit]

You are definitely not alone, though it's easy to feel that way. I look around at my neighbors and see them having regular visitors, out doing things, living a lot more normally than I do. But then I never was normal, even before wd...it's just added another layer of feeling out of synch with most of the world.

 

I was lucky this time..nothing happened with the driver I saluted. I try hard to reign myself in..and some days like that, I tell myself I'm not allowed out of the house. But I made the choice to meet a friend for a walk that day, and that part did help with the isolation I'd been feeling. The drive back home was much calmer.

[GardeniaBlossom]

I have had many difficult days recently. Yesterday, I woke up feeling okay and spent most of the day with my family. That was good but also difficult. By the time I returned home, I was exhausted. So, instead of eating dinner I just went to sleep. Bad idea. I kept waking up with racing thoughts, physical pain, rage, and terror. I woke up and ate something in the middle of the night, something I do very rarely. Today, I am down again and can barely function. I'm glad I felt well enough yesterday to spend time with my Dad though.

 

I'm going to try and rest. Maybe that will help.

[GardeniaBlossom]

Thank you for your compassion, freespirit. I look at other people in my immediate community, too, and feel the same way. I was never "normal" either though I was able to function more normally. I know what you mean by "feeling out of sync with the world." Thank you expressing that in the way you did.

 

Yes, I am very glad to hear your flipping another driver off did not result in negative consequences to you. I also make it a point to avoid people as much as possible when I feel like I might have strong negative reactions to them. It's incredibly stressful to be around people when I feel overwhelmed by neuro emotions. It's great that you went out for a walk with a friend and felt that helped alleviate some of the isolation. Reaching out to people during this time is one of the most difficult things for me yet it's one of the things that helps me the most. 

[LoveandLight]

GB you write so beautifully

[GardeniaBlossom]

Thank you, LoveandLight! I appreciate that so much, more than I can say.

[freespirit]

GB,

 

Sometimes there are trade-offs in things like spending time with others. There's a weighing out of the benefits and the consequences. Even before WD, I've had a difficult time with this. I get exhausted from socializing pretty easily. I don't know if this is possible for you when you see family, but can you have a bit of a time-out? When my wife's family used to visit, I found it very challenging. They are big talkers, as in non-stop from morning to night. I used to take time every afternoon for a nap, where I sometimes slept, but more often, listened to a meditation. I was still spent by the time the visit was over, but it did help some.

 

I find if I'm doing something that is more exhausting, I need to do extra self-care before and after. I might still get the nervous system reaction, but perhaps not as extremely.

[GardeniaBlossom]

Yes, Freespirit, I also had a difficult time balancing the costs and benefits of spending time with people before withdrawal. I was painfully shy and found it difficult to trust people before I ever took psych drugs. Being with others was usually tiring as well. One of the ways the drugs helped me for the time they did was I think they allowed me to feel more confident and outgoing. (That's a hypothesis. I don't know if that's actually true or not. It seems to have been. I'm still figuring that out.) I like your suggestion to take a time out when I am with family. I sometimes do that but not always. Your reminder helps. I relate so deeply with your feelings of loneliness and the sense of isolation you expressed on your thread. Thank you for your courage describing that.

[Iamfine]

If you are making art you are making progress. For me it's exercise, pre meds I was very athletic. While I was sick it got hard to walk across the yard. I took up running again, and my days now revolve around my runs, it makes me feel so much better. I'm not going far like I used to, but I am going, and that's something. Good luck to you and congratulations on 8 months free.

[freespirit]

 One of the ways the drugs helped me for the time they did was I think they allowed me to feel more confident and outgoing. (That's a hypothesis. I don't know if that's actually true or not. It seems to have been. I'm still figuring that out.)

 

I'll be interested to learn what you discover about your hypothesis. It's something I've heard before...but haven't thought about it in regards to myself.

 

I don't know if you identify with being an introvert or not. But that, I mean someone who gains energy by being alone...more than they do by being with others. Many people seem to think introversion means you don't like people or only want to be alone..which is not true. It's more of a scale anyway, with folks being along a continuum. 

 

Being an introvert in western cultures is very challenging. Most people misunderstand and think you are standoffish or snobby. They don't get that a lot of interaction is draining. They think there's something wrong with those who want to spend more time alone. Introverts tend to be more reflective, take things and want to contemplate them..and may not always be up for rapid-fire conversation or have a quick answer for something. Even though introversion is common, it is not considered the norm in N. America at least. I haven't lived in other places, so don't know if it's different elsewhere.

 

If you add to this, being a more sensitive person...well, it's easy to understand feeling different than the rest of the culture. I'm not much of a fan of labels, as they can become very limiting...but having a sense of things helps me to accept myself much more than I did when I was younger.

 

Maybe something of this will resonate with you?

[btdt]

Yes, Freespirit, I also had a difficult time balancing the costs and benefits of spending time with people before withdrawal. I was painfully shy and found it difficult to trust people before I ever took psych drugs. Being with others was usually tiring as well. One of the ways the drugs helped me for the time they did was I think they allowed me to feel more confident and outgoing. (That's a hypothesis. I don't know if that's actually true or not. It seems to have been. I'm still figuring that out.) I like your suggestion to take a time out when I am with family. I sometimes do that but not always. Your reminder helps. I relate so deeply with your feelings of loneliness and the sense of isolation you expressed on your thread. Thank you for your courage describing that.

Don't feel bad it would seem I am still figuring it out too.  I just returned from a family visit and wonder how long it will take me to adjust and get back to where I was before I left.. I knew this would happen I hoped it wouldn't but I knew. 

I was not shy before drugs and loved to spend time with family.. this is completely drug induced for me. 

I did take time out for myself had a few walks alone ect...some how it was not enough this time. 

Don't be too hard on yourself with not knowing how to handle things like this I am 7 years off and apparently still sorting it out. 

I wish you peace

[GardeniaBlossom]

If you are making art you are making progress.

 

I love that. I think I'll write that down and post it on my fridge. Yes, it's such a relief to be able to make art of some kind, again. I never took photographs seriously before, but it's the only medium I can work in right now. So. .. why not?

 

 

For me it's exercise, pre meds I was very athletic. While I was sick it got hard to walk across the yard. I took up running again, and my days now revolve around my runs, it makes me feel so much better. I'm not going far like I used to, but I am going, and that's something. Good luck to you and congratulations on 8 months free.

 

Yes, I think we have to rely on the skills and tools we developed before wd to maximum effect to recover. It's great to hear that the ability and inclination to exercise return. I wish I could exercise more. I think it would help me, too. I just haven't been up to it, again, yet. Thanks!

[GardeniaBlossom]

 

 One of the ways the drugs helped me for the time they did was I think they allowed me to feel more confident and outgoing. (That's a hypothesis. I don't know if that's actually true or not. It seems to have been. I'm still figuring that out.)

 

I don't know if you identify with being an introvert or not. But that, I mean someone who gains energy by being alone...more than they do by being with others. Many people seem to think introversion means you don't like people or only want to be alone..which is not true. It's more of a scale anyway, with folks being along a continuum. 

 

Being an introvert in western cultures is very challenging. Most people misunderstand and think you are standoffish or snobby. They don't get that a lot of interaction is draining. They think there's something wrong with those who want to spend more time alone. Introverts tend to be more reflective, take things and want to contemplate them..and may not always be up for rapid-fire conversation or have a quick answer for something. Even though introversion is common, it is not considered the norm in N. America at least. I haven't lived in other places, so don't know if it's different elsewhere.

 

If you add to this, being a more sensitive person...well, it's easy to understand feeling different than the rest of the culture. I'm not much of a fan of labels, as they can become very limiting...but having a sense of things helps me to accept myself much more than I did when I was younger.

 

Maybe something of this will resonate with you?

 

 

Yes, I do identify with being an introvert. When I took the Myers Briggs test, I scored 80% introvert. My understanding was that was a high score to have in one area. I'm also sensitive. To add to that, I'm an immigrant. Though I've lived in the US for most of life, I'll never be from or of the culture I live in. So, you're absolutely right. There are many reasons for feeling out of step and having a sense of where those feelings come from helps. 

 

I've read that there are other cultures where there are more introverts. If I remember correctly, they were in Asia (so, not western), but I can't remember now what countries specifically.

[GardeniaBlossom]

 

Yes, Freespirit, I also had a difficult time balancing the costs and benefits of spending time with people before withdrawal. I was painfully shy and found it difficult to trust people before I ever took psych drugs. Being with others was usually tiring as well. One of the ways the drugs helped me for the time they did was I think they allowed me to feel more confident and outgoing. (That's a hypothesis. I don't know if that's actually true or not. It seems to have been. I'm still figuring that out.) I like your suggestion to take a time out when I am with family. I sometimes do that but not always. Your reminder helps. I relate so deeply with your feelings of loneliness and the sense of isolation you expressed on your thread. Thank you for your courage describing that.

 

Don't feel bad it would seem I am still figuring it out too.  I just returned from a family visit and wonder how long it will take me to adjust and get back to where I was before I left.. I knew this would happen I hoped it wouldn't but I knew. 

I was not shy before drugs and loved to spend time with family.. this is completely drug induced for me. 

I did take time out for myself had a few walks alone ect...some how it was not enough this time. 

Don't be too hard on yourself with not knowing how to handle things like this I am 7 years off and apparently still sorting it out. 

I wish you peace

 

 

Thank you, btdt. I appreciate that insight a great deal. I hope you're able to recover and get back to where you were before you left soon. What kinds of things do you like to do in an effort to recover from a family visit?

[Iamfine]

Gardenia- did you ever take Seroquel? If so how did you get off? I recently went from 500 mg to zero in about 5 weeks and felt horrible. I ended up having to reinstate (after I found this place) to 150 mg and I felt better that day, and have felt better since. It's next to go, after I get off Luvox which I will be glad to see go. I have tapered from 150 to 25 and I'm thinking about ct'ing the rest to get it over with.

[GardeniaBlossom]

Mike/ Iamfine, I did take Seroquel. How did you guess? It was a long time ago. I came off it by switching to another drug. I don't remember what now. Sorry I can't give you any insight on that. I realize that you've have some success with the cold turkey, but why not take a gentler approach? I can't tell you what to do, and I'm certainly no expert. Ambition is good. In general, I'm in favour of over achievement, but that might not be the best course of action in this case. That's just my opinion. Please be careful. I've read the last jump off anything can be the most difficult and sometimes takes longer than the rest of the taper, but again, I am no expert. The moderators would be better qualified to give you advice from a more informed perspective than my own.

 

Think marathon, not sprint. I know you're tough but finesse has its place.

 

Have you taken a glance at the tips for tapering Seroquel, here: http://bit.ly/1BKM9Ut?

[Iamfine]

Yeah I took it years ago and at that time I replaced it with another drug because it made me fat. I've only been taking it a short time this time so I figured I could dump it quick. Diabetes runs in my family and Seroquel causes diabetes so I thought I would get off it quick, no dice.

 

Thanks for the link. How are you doing lately?

 

Mike

[GardeniaBlossom]

Mike, you might have only been on the Seroquel for a short time, but my concern is that your central nervous system has been stressed for over a decade. So, a gentle taper might be more wise. You might be fine to ct, but if you're not that might mean a slow road through protracted withdrawal hell.

 

I feel like a wreck. I'm exhausted, disassociated, my mind is full of dense fog. I'm anxious and worried about my health. I can hardly focus, read, or comprehend much. On the other hand, I went to see my new therapist, today. It was like visiting an oasis for my heart. I bought delicious food to enjoy. The  tumeric I grow in my garden is flowering. One of my orchids is in bloom with three long spikes of violet flowers. So, things could be worse. Thanks for asking.

[Iamfine]

Would you say that your withdrawal has been mental or physical or both? Mine has been 90% mental. I'm still getting that pit of doom feeling in the afternoons/ early evening. The Geodon I take around 6:30 pm with my dinner works really well and helps me sleep. I may be getting side effects from it but who knows what's causing what at this point. Geodon will be the last to go for me.

[GardeniaBlossom]

For me it's been both mental and physical. I know what you mean by "the pit of doom" feeling. I wake up with that and it often lasts for all or most of the day. Sometimes, during the late afternoon some of the symptoms lift. It's such a relief when that happens.

[freespirit]

I feel like a wreck. I'm exhausted, disassociated, my mind is full of dense fog. I'm anxious and worried about my health. I can hardly focus, read, or comprehend much. On the other hand, I went to see my new therapist, today. It was like visiting an oasis for my heart. I bought delicious food to enjoy. The  tumeric I grow in my garden is flowering. One of my orchids is in bloom with three long spikes of violet flowers. So, things could be worse. Thanks for asking.

 

Sorry you're suffering so much. This is such an incredibly brutal process to come through.

 

It sounds positive though, that you're finding enjoyment in some aspects of life. Even a few moments here and there helps.

 

In terms of introversion, I found living in the US (at least in California) to be a very extroverted culture. I think I read somewhere that the states is one of the most extroverted. There are more quieter people in Canada I find. I worked at a retreat center for awhile in CA. You might think that would be a draw for more introverts...but it wasn't. I was always seeking ways to escape from the interactions. We had no tv or radio, but people would come and find the silence unbearable..and on would go the stereo with loud music..accompanied by a lot of talking. Who would think you'd be stressed a retreat center, of all places..but I was.

 

I can imagine that not being born there adds another level of feeling removed for you.

[GardeniaBlossom]

Thank you, freespirit. I lived at a retreat center in Nova Scotia for several months many years ago. The retreat setting is supposed to be calm, but I'm not sure it is. I lived in others in India. I found all of them to be stressful in their own way. I traveled in Canada a little, as well, and found that people seem to be quieter there than in the US. I really enjoyed Canada. In general, I found the culture seems less aggressive. I am from an island in the Caribbean where the culture is more flexible in the direction of introversion. Most of the population of the country is not originally from the western world though. (I mean their ancestors are not. It was a British colony.) So, that may be why. I agree, American culture is very oriented toward extroverts. Thank you for reminding me of that.

 

I'm trying to add joy to my list of priorities to offset the suffering. I think I just need to cultivate it for its own sake, as well. Today, I listened to music for most of the day which I enjoyed.

 

Thank you for stopping by to say, "Hello." I appreciate it so much.

[Iamfine]

Music is triggering to me when I'm in a slump. It reminds me of when I was better, I used to love music. Lots of things are triggering to me now that I wouldn't even notice when I was stronger. Now that I see light at the end of the tunnel I know there are better days ahead. I just have to get off the Luvox and Seroquel. I'm still thinking about dumping the rest of my Luvox in the trash. It's worked for me with other drugs, why not this one too?

 

This is your thread though. Does music sooth you like it does to so many others?

[westcoast]

Hi Gardenia Blossom, I just read page 1 and part of page two. I was so similar to you that I thought I should say so, and that I got past the dread phase.

 

 

 

The most difficult symptoms I've faced are extreme tiredness, impending doom, paranoia, difficulty communicating, brain fog, confusion, disorientation, lonliness, insomnia, aguish, and despair. It's very difficult to prepare food for myself. I often feel alone and guilty for needing the support I do.

 

I wasn't tired, though. Other than that, everything was similar. I also stopped creative activities. And I went from reading every night and most mornings to hardly being able to read a page. It's not uncommon. It was maddening. A great pleasure gone! But I can read again now too. (I wonder if the loss of reading is part of why we feel so lousy; it's a kind of meditation, I think.)

 

The dread stopped around Christmas, about 1.75 years after I quit the drugs, maybe because I started on coconut oil. My mood improved after one month on wellbutrin in March. I didn't want the anhedonia any longer, and my doctor is serious and experienced with withdrawal clients, so I risked it. It's not an ssri or snri, the latter of which did me in. Anyway, things started picking up after that. I began to write again and though I lost so much--long term boyfriend and my retirement fund--I am not miserable these days. I was essentially on some form of speed during my brief three years of drugs; hence crazy actions & the losses.)

 

I did well with coconut oil, and took a stab at the ketogenic diet (high fat) for what it's worth. I'd had various kinds of seizures from the drugs and withdrawal, so I figured I'd use an anti-seizure diet...

I hope you have faith that you'll feel better eventually and I'm glad you are here. 

 

W

[GardeniaBlossom]

Iamfine, most of the time, I do find music soothing. Depends on the music. I think music is a kind of medicine. So, it right kind administered at the right time can work wonders for me. What helps you when you're in a slump?

[GardeniaBlossom]

When I can't listen to a lot of other music, I like to listen to this and other pieces made by the same artists. I find it healing.

 

[Iamfine]

Iamfine, most of the time, I do find music soothing. Depends on the music. I think music is a kind of medicine. So, it right kind administered at the right time can work wonders for me. What helps you when you're in a slump?

Gardenia- I've found that exercise is my best medicine, and I always do it in the afternoon when I usually experience the pits. The more it hurts the better I feel. I'm a long, long ways from where I was but I am getting there slowly. I feel better both during and for several hours after a good workout.

[GardeniaBlossom]

I'm looking forward to being able to exercise, again. I really am. Maybe one day soon.

[GardeniaBlossom]

I also stopped creative activities. And I went from reading every night and most mornings to hardly being able to read a page. It's not uncommon. It was maddening. A great pleasure gone! But I can read again now too. (I wonder if the loss of reading is part of why we feel so lousy; it's a kind of meditation, I think.)

 

 

Westcoast, thank you for stopping by my thread and offering me the benefit of your experience. I appreciate it so much. I wonder what it is about the drugs that make it so hard to be creative. It doesn't make sense to me. For most of the time I was on them I couldn't create much, and I'm an artist. That's something I do. It just comes naturally, but I just couldn't do it. And the inability to read (or comprehend what I read). Oh my gosh, a friend showed me an article yesterday about a subject I have expertise in. I was dumfounded. I could barely make sense of it. I'm so embarrassed. I don't know how to explain why I was so confused. I sounded like a fool. What am I supposed to say? "Friend, please ignore me for the next few years. I won't be myself. After that I'm not sure who I'll be. My intellectual abilities are worthless?" Agh! It's hard to communicate why things that are so normal and easy to do before withdrawal are completely impossible during recovery.

 

Not only is reading a pleasure, it's a necessity.

 

A wise man told me recently that my brain is under reconstruction and this degree of remodelling is messy. Boy was he right.

 

I do hope I'm going to recover. I don't know how long I can live like this. It's really hard. This is by far the most difficult thing I have ever faced.

[westcoast]

It really, truly is.

 

My most difficult thing until I was 31 was quitting smoking. It was so close to impossible there was no need to distinguish. (lost in WD 27 years later.)

 

Then, grad school displaced that. (It was a struggle to complete a) after I lost interest in the topic and my advising professor went crazy on Halcion and Dexedrine.) (Damaged reputation via manic web postings during WD in a place my old school pals, now professors, some "prominent," would see)

 

Then, living with the despair of a Stage 4 cancer diagnosis, until I survived it, 6 years ago. (Survival, so far, has been 80% consumed by months of iatrogenic mania and disability which were not what I endured the despair and treatments for.)

 

THIS however has taken every shred of my humanity to endure. The career, social & money losses, the anger & impotence re doctors, FDA, drugmakers, the loss of mental abilities, and most of all the "intolerable" subjective experience of WD, after the mania faded: dread, grief, regret, & hopelessness all bundled up into an emotion I didn't know existed. That went on for almost two years.

 

Now I am much better, but I'm a hermit. I can't say I hate it, but activities were so pleasant. Will I be okay if I don't resume them? I have nice memories of coming home with sand on my feet, picking a friend up at the airport, finding THE DRESS at Salvation Army (several times a year).

 

Reading is back. Writing is back, though it is laborious, not fluent. I was in bad shape at the 9-month point, and it did get better month by month.

 

Your writing is lovely. It is creative and artistic. I think it means the artist in you is "resting comfortably" (or maybe curled up in a ball) until the brainstorms pass.