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GordonWarren

Orthomolecular supplements for tapering

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GordonWarren

After reading about Andreas Lubitz & the Germanwings disaster, the only difference between him & me is that someone intervened before I got the chance to kill somebody.  It was at that point that I tried to quit cold-turkey (see 2nd attempt in my "tapering" history).

 

Even though I went back on my meds after that "incident," I knew that somehow, someway, I had to get off these meds. I was a total psycho & my dosage was off the charts.

 

After doing research on the net, I discovered that the reason for violent withdrawals from SN/SSRIs was their very short half-life. These drugs literally turn patients into "junkies" who can't go more than a few hours without their next "fix."

 

I also discovered, that like all SN/SSRIs, 5-HTP was a GABA enhancer with a potency equal to that of prescription drugs.  I read that the absolute maximum dosage of 5-HTP for a grown adult was 900mg/day (Serotonin Syndrome is fatal), so that's what I took 24 hours after my morning dose of SSRIs--it worked!

 

The next day, I did the same thing as the day before.  Whenever my brain felt like it was melting from the inside out, I would crack open a 100mg capsule of 5-HTP & down it with milk or water to make the withdrawal symptoms subside.  It "only" took 700mg of 5-HTP the second day, 500mg the 3rd day, 300mg the 4th day, 200mg, the 5th day, 100mg the 6th day, and 50mg each day after that.  I had a few minor brain zaps during this time, but not anything too disruptive.  They quickly disappeared in a few days.

 

I cut the 5-HTP back to 25mg a day after that because I was feeling "squirrely."  That was a minor irritant, relatively speaking--at least I was free from ADs.

 

I've since refined the process so that I could keep depression at bay everyday. Going back to square one wasn't an option for me.  I didn't just want to kick these meds, I wanted my life back!

 

I've since shared this experience with others, and hopefully, with the emergence of herbal remedies, SN/SSRIs will become obsolete & depression will be treated more immediately & effectively.

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Altostrata

Hello, GordonWarren.

 

There is such a wide range of response to dosage reduction and 5-HTP, it could be your success was idiosyncratic. Those people here who have tried to compensate for withdrawal symptoms by taking 5-HTP have not succeeded. Sometimes they get additional adverse reactions from 5-HTP.

 

5-HTP is not a GABA enhancer, it is a serotonergic.

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GordonWarren

Hello, GordonWarren.

 

There is such a wide range of response to dosage reduction and 5-HTP, it could be your success was idiosyncratic. Those people here who have tried to compensate for withdrawal symptoms by taking 5-HTP have not succeeded. Sometimes they get additional adverse reactions from 5-HTP.

 

5-HTP is not a GABA enhancer, it is a serotonergic.

 

 

Thanks for the correction.  I was confusing my research on Benzos, which are GABA enhancers, with SN/SSRIs, which use serotonin in the body to elevate moods.  I wish that I could make a correction or burn this thread & retype it, because this is a very important topic which affects millions of people. Up to 10% of a nation's population are hooked on SN/SSRIs.  That's ridiculous!

 

With that being said, 5-HTP causes the human body to produce serotonin; that's not idiosyncratic.

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/5-htp.html

 

The presence of serotonin in the body alleviates SN/SSRI withdrawal symptoms significantly.  That's a fact.

 

Given the range & dosages of ADs, it is to be expected that people will require different amounts of 5-HTP to alleviate their withdrawal symptoms.  The fact that there is a substance that can do that for millions of people should not be overlooked because of a typo.

 

I spent 10 years researching this topic.  if 5-HTP did not adequately relieve SN/SSRI withdrawal symptoms, it is because the dosage was not sufficient--it needed to be higher. 

 

I and others have escaped SS/SNRI addiction using 5-HTP. 

 

It works--period!

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bluebalu86

I'm afraid to try it for fear of serotonin syndrome or making my symptoms worse.

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GordonWarren

I'm afraid to try it for fear of serotonin syndrome or making my symptoms worse.

 

I understand your fears. There's a lot of conflicting information out there & it's difficult to decide what is safe. Studies in depression have used dosages varying from 20 to 3,250 mg daily; however, most commonly 200 to 300 mg/day has been used.

http://www.drugs.com/npp/5-htp.html

 

Given the dozens, if not hundreds of accredited sites I've read about 5-HTP, I arbitrarily decided that 900mg/day was the absolute upper limit for safety.  I didn't want anyone (including me) to die trying to get off of SSRIs with 5-HTP.

 

While some health advocates recommend using 5-HTP to accelerate the tapering process, I'm not one of them (fear of serotonin syndrome through chemical reaction).  I'm a believer that one should choose SN/SSRIs or 5-HTP, but NOT BOTH.  That's why I recommend waiting 24 hours after the last SN/SSRI dose before trying 5-HTP. 

 

Each person must decide what course of action they think is best.  To me, tapering over the course of a year was not an option.

 

I too was motivated my fear.  I was afraid that I was going to do something horrible or kill somebody if I didn't get off ADs as soon as possible, so much so, that I was willing to risk dying by taking 900mg of 5-HTP in a single day.  I figured it was better I die than someone else by my hands.  I was that emotionally unstable.

 

Unfortunately, too many people on SN/SSRIs go down that dark path of psychopathy, unnoticed until they do something horrible.  That should NEVER happen.

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dalsaan

 

Hello, GordonWarren.

 

There is such a wide range of response to dosage reduction and 5-HTP, it could be your success was idiosyncratic. Those people here who have tried to compensate for withdrawal symptoms by taking 5-HTP have not succeeded. Sometimes they get additional adverse reactions from 5-HTP.

 

5-HTP is not a GABA enhancer, it is a serotonergic.

 

 

Thanks for the correction.  I was confusing my research on Benzos, which are GABA enhancers, with SN/SSRIs, which use serotonin in the body to elevate moods.  I wish that I could make a correction or burn this thread & retype it, because this is a very important topic which affects millions of people. Up to 10% of a nation's population are hooked on SN/SSRIs.  That's ridiculous!

 

With that being said, 5-HTP causes the human body to produce serotonin; that's not idiosyncratic.

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/5-htp.html

 

The presence of serotonin in the body alleviates SN/SSRI withdrawal symptoms significantly.  That's a fact.

 

Given the range & dosages of ADs, it is to be expected that people will require different amounts of 5-HTP to alleviate their withdrawal symptoms.  The fact that there is a substance that can do that for millions of people should not be overlooked because of a typo.

 

I spent 10 years researching this topic.  if 5-HTP did not adequately relieve SN/SSRI withdrawal symptoms, it is because the dosage was not sufficient--it needed to be higher. 

 

I and others have escaped SS/SNRI addiction using 5-HTP. 

 

It works--period!

 

 

We have had people here for whom it doesn't work.   I understand that you have done some research on this but please be more measured in your responses.   I don't believe that there is a significant body of evidence on the effects of 5htp that would support a blanket statement that 'it works period'. Nor do I believe that the research explores the effects of 5htp on those with significantly disregulated nervous systems due to withdrawal or a long history of polydrugging.  Big Pharma can't patent 5htp so they wont research its effects and others don't have the money

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Petunia

Hi GordonWarren,

Did you know we already have a topic on 5-htp? There have been mixed reactions to it with some people having a bad experience when using it to try and alleviate withdrawal symptoms. Here is a link to that topic, you may find it interesting:

 

5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) and tryptophan

 

Please would you clarify the tapering history in your signature. You were first on antidepressants for 10 weeks, but you don't say which one and the dose. There are no details for the second time you tried antidepressants. Which drug, what dose and how long were you on them?

 

Petunia.

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Altostrata

Gordon, please start an Introductions topic for yourself about your own experience, rather than as a teacher.

 

Google "survivingantidepressants.org htp" to see the discussions and comments on this site about 5-HTP.

 

It could very well be your method worked for you because, believe it or not, some people can go off these drugs with not much of a taper. That is, the 5-HTP may not have been the key to your success, it may have been coincidental.

 

It would be nice to find a silver bullet to help people go off drugs, but unfortunately we already have evidence from others who have tried 5-HTP as a bridge that it does not work reliably for that purpose. Plus, we have people who have had adverse reactions from single doses of 5-HTP and others who took 5-HTP for a while and then developed withdrawal symptoms from going off it.

 

Also see What is withdrawal syndrome? It's not a lack of serotonin, if the brain needed it, the gut would send some right up -- the gut is swimming with it.

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purplesky

Hi, i'm new to this board, but not to depression, SSRIs or withdrawal.

To my knowledge, my own experience, and based on anecdotal accounts from others I know who have taken SSRIs and try to quit, 5-htp does not at all help SSRI withdrawal.

 

I doubt 5-htp even helps the majority with depression and/or anxiety. Just about all of the serotonin that gets made as a result of 5-htp is in the gut. Very little, if any, makes it to the brain. There are many articles on the internet making positive claims about 5-htp and it's cousin L-Tryptophan, usually followed by a "click here" to purchase your 5-htp at a knock down price. Yep, a sponsored link trying to sell you something.

 

Before 2004, and before starting SSRIs, I wanted something that would help me beat low mood, depression and anxiety. Yes, I fell hook line and sinker back then, read all the articles on the internet about how 5-htp, L-Tryptophan, St John's Wort, L-Tyrosine, fish oil, B complex and all would help me. None of those listed worked. I tried other lesser known herbs and amino acids, and guess what? None of those worked either. After researching some more, I discovered that not many other people were getting relief from these kinds of supplements either. To be honest, I think most do more harm than good and are usually peddled by people making out that big-pharma is evil, whilst of course trying to line their own pockets selling crap that just doesn't work and won't work.

 

Since around 2004, I have been on and off different SSRIs. I was on Paroxetine for around 10 years before it completely pooped out. I've since been experimenting with Sertraline and now Fluoxetine. I don't get many side affects from SSRIs, and in the main, I only get benefits, that is until they poop out like Paroxetine did. Every time I taper an SSRI however, i get withdrawal symptoms that last weeks and are never ending. I have to say however, the symptoms I do get are not just because of drug withdrawal, but rather me going back to the way I always was before I even took an SSRI..... depressed, angry, anxious, moody, not being able to sleep, not being able to think straight, thinking irrational things. The only withdrawal symptom I can attribute to stopping SSRIs is brain zaps, but that is the last of my worries in the main.

 

Bottom line however, supplements are, for the most part, a big waste of money.

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ang

Hello, GordonWarren.

 

There is such a wide range of response to dosage reduction and 5-HTP, it could be your success was idiosyncratic. Those people here who have tried to compensate for withdrawal symptoms by taking 5-HTP have not succeeded. Sometimes they get additional adverse reactions from 5-HTP.

 

5-HTP is not a GABA enhancer, it is a serotonergic.

Hello how did this come up in my facebook ??????????????  Is it an ad or something?  Angela  no-one here knows my facebook page... I am seriously concerned....moderators?  help?

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ang

Gordon Warren  you are a hacker.... I am disgusted that you would hack this site, to flog your products, then publish this website as a link to your first post , via facebook????????..... how 5 htp helped you? How did that link end up on my personal facebook account?  I am disgusted, this site does not and never would advertise products, ie advertise drugs......... how did you do this?   why did you do this?   Even your symbol for survivng antidepresseants, just isnt quite right. (On your facebook advertising?)............... You been reported to facebook, and the moderators.  I think your account now terminated.

 

Disgusted!

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ang

Does normal links to surviving antidepressants go thru this?  http://bit.ly/1JncOZG this one does.

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GordonWarren

Gordon Warren  you are a hacker.... I am disgusted that you would hack this site, to flog your products, then publish this website as a link to your first post , via facebook????????..... how 5 htp helped you? How did that link end up on my personal facebook account?  I am disgusted, this site does not and never would advertise products, ie advertise drugs......... how did you do this?   why did you do this?   Even your symbol for survivng antidepresseants, just isnt quite right. (On your facebook advertising?)............... You been reported to facebook, and the moderators.  I think your account now terminated.

 

Disgusted!

 

If I was "Black Hat," I would go after the drug companies, not someone I've never met or read about.

 

However, I have made posts at Facebook.  They have their tentacles into everything on the web.  I'm convinced they want to control the internet.  Your beef is with them, not me.  I've read of people who "liked" a product having their face copied & pasted into an online ad--how creepy is that?

 

Frankly, the way this thread is going, it might be better if my content was scrubbed from SurvivingADs--too many typos.  I was exhausted yesterday & it showed in my posts.  People, including you, deserve better.

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GordonWarren

Hi GordonWarren,

Did you know we already have a topic on 5-htp? There have been mixed reactions to it with some people having a bad experience when using it to try and alleviate withdrawal symptoms. Here is a link to that topic, you may find it interesting:

 

5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) and tryptophan

 

Please would you clarify the tapering history in your signature. You were first on antidepressants for 10 weeks, but you don't say which one and the dose. There are no details for the second time you tried antidepressants. Which drug, what dose and how long were you on them?

 

Petunia.

 

I have read many of these sites.  Their fundamental flaw is that they tried to use 5-HTP, which your body converts to serotonin, by itself to treat depression.  I don't believe that 5-HTP alone can do that for anyone in the long-term (see my "tapering" history).

 

I was on SSRIs for 10 years. Their functionality is essentially the same, with SNRIs doing 3-10% norepinephrine reuptake inhibition compared to serotonin.  Serotonin in the brain is the primary focus of all SN/SNRIs.

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ang

 

 

 

If I was "Black Hat," I would go after the drug companies, not someone I've never met or read about.

 

However, I have made posts at Facebook.  They have their tentacles into everything on the web.  I'm convinced they want to control the internet.  Your beef is with them, not me.  I've read of people who "liked" a product having their face copied & pasted into an online ad--how creepy is that?

 

Frankly, the way this thread is going, it might be better if my content was scrubbed from SurvivingADs--too many typos.  I was exhausted yesterday & it showed in my posts.  People, including you, deserve better.

 

Well I do apologise, sincerely, other posts have come up   , similar in my facebook thread... ............  I tried to delete my comments here on the site, too late....Anyway, wish you well.

Please accept my apologies...  

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GordonWarren

 

We have had people here for whom it doesn't work.   I understand that you have done some research on this but please be more measured in your responses.   I don't believe that there is a significant body of evidence on the effects of 5htp that would support a blanket statement that 'it works period'. Nor do I believe that the research explores the effects of 5htp on those with significantly disregulated nervous systems due to withdrawal or a long history of polydrugging.  Big Pharma can't patent 5htp so they wont research its effects and others don't have the money.

 

 

 

My success & the success of others who desperately wanted to get off of SN/SSRIs is reason enough for people to try.  Here is a refined version of an SN/SSRI withdrawal program, complete with info/support/warning links. 

 

Depression & SN/SSRIs

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8933.php

http://www.webmd.com/depression/how-different-antidepressants-work

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201001/five-reasons-not-take-ssris

http://www.depressionforums.org/forums/forum/54-effexor-venlafaxine-pristiq-desvenlafaxine/

 

5-HTP

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/5-htp.html  (great information site!)

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/5hydroxytryptophan-5htp

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20081009/st-johns-wort-major-depression

 

St. John's Wort

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20081009/st-johns-wort-major-depression

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/REM00017

 

Important warnings about combining 5-HTP, St. John's Wort, & Serotonin Syndrome

http://doctormurray.com/health-conditions/depression/

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/St_Johns_Wort_Effective_with_Caveats.shtml

 

This program will free you from SN/SSRI addiction without suffering nightmarish withdrawal symptoms, regardless of how high your dosage is.  However, your dosage, time on the drug, & level(s) of depression will determine how you implement the program.

 

Example 1:  Recent patient experiencing an episode of depression on low dosage of an SN/SSRI

  • Begin treatment by taking 100mg of 5-HTP 24 hours after your last SN/SSRI dose.  This should be enough to last the next 24 hours.

Example 2:  Patient with chronic depression on moderate dose of an SN/SSRI for 6 – 12 months.

  • 24 hours after your last SN/SSRI dose, begin treatment by taking 200mg of 5-HTP twice with meals.

Example 3:  Patient weighing more than 120 lbs. (55kg) with severe depressive disorder on a high dose of SN/SSRI

  • 24 hours after your last SN/SSRI dose, take 400mg of 5-HTP twice with meals (Be sure to read the link about Serotonin Syndrome; 5-HTP is as potent as any SN/SSRI & fatal ODs are possible!)

Day 0:  This is your last dose of SN/SSRI meds, usually taken in the morning.  Your withdrawal program begins 24 hours after that SN/SSRI dose.

 

Day 1:  Determine an appropriate 5-HTP withdrawal dose based on Examples 1, 2, & 3 and the information links above (100mg to 800mg per day).  Generally speaking, it’s better to take a little extra 5-HTP than not enough in the beginning of the program.  A few manic symptoms & some lucid dreams are preferable to SN/SSRI withdrawal symptoms.  Cutting back on 5-HTP is preferable to cracking open capsules & downing them with water or milk to immediately counter SN/SSRI withdrawal symptoms.

 

Take 100mg to 400mg 5-HTP powdered capsules with a very light, bland meal.  The food & drink will reduce intestinal discomfort to a minimum.  When it’s time for your next meal, take the same amount of 5-HTP (keep the meal bland & light).  Only those who were prescribed a very low dose of SN/SSRI antidepressants should skip an additional 100mg dose of 5-HTP for their second meal.

 

Day 2:  Assuming Day 1 took care of SN/SSRI withdrawal, take the same amount of 5-HTP & continue to consume bland food & drink as you did on Day 1.  See the above links & examples if you experienced any serious discomfort or problems with withdrawal.  Choosing the correct amount of 5-HTP on Days 1 & 2 will ensure the success of this withdrawal program.

 

Day 3:  Reduce the amount of your daily 5-HTP intake of by 100mg/meal (200mg/day).  If you were only taking 200mg or less on Day 2, reduce that amount by half.  Most people consuming less than 400mg of 5-HTP/day don’t experience any intestinal problems at all.  You may experience an increased appetite by Day 3, but be careful, & wear an extra pair of underwear just in case diarrhea strikes. 

 

Day 4:  Take the same amount of 5-HTP as you did on Day 3.  If your food selection was uneventful, you might be able to get by without extra underwear.

 

Day 5:  Reduce the amount of your daily 5-HTP intake of by 100mg/meal (200mg/day).  If you were taking 200mg or less on Day 4, reduce that by half.

 

Day 6:  Take the same amount of 5-HTP as you did on Day 5.  If you are down to 25mg of 5-HTP/day, maintain that dose until Day 8.

 

Day 7:  The most 5-HTP people should be taking by Day 7 is 200mg/day.  Continue reducing your 5-HTP intake by half every 2 days until you are down to 25mg/day.

 

Day 8 and beyond:  For those of you who have rarely experienced depression & fell into the SN/SSRI trap, you’re now free to live a life without depression, herbs or meds.  Go share your joy with the world!  If depression strikes again in the future, 100mg of 5-HTP should quickly lift your spirits.  For those of us who struggle with depression everyday, we must find another way to escape that “black hole” of depression—without “Satan’s meds.”

 

While 5-HTP alone is an effective withdrawal agent to escape SN/SSRI addiction, it won’t help you deal with depression on a day-to-day basis.  Something else is needed.

 

The human body converts 5-HTP into serotonin, which is fine.  However, I have discovered St. John’s Wort (SJW) is required to perform the serotonin reuptake inhibitor function to keep depression at bay.  Essentially, the 2 herbs combine to perform a similar function to SN/SSRIs without turning people into zombies or addicts.  You can stop taking these herbs anytime without withdrawal symptoms & don’t have to worry about destroying your liver or dying before your time.  You can take your life back, depression-free.  Be sure to read the above warnings about Serotonin Syndrome!

 

For chronic depression sufferers, the key to maintaining good mental health is to find a maintenance dose that works for you.  For me, I found that 25mg of 5-HTP & 10mg of SJW does the trick most days, taken first thing in the morning.  On days when 25mg is insufficient, I double the 5-HTP intake to 50mg/day.  I recommend that you start with this dose & gently increase one or the other to find your ideal combination.  That’s why I recommended using powdered capsules vs. gelcaps.  You can crack open the capsule, pour out the powder, press it flat on a piece of paper & cut it into half as many times as needed to approximate an appropriate dosage.

 

I wish all of you who decided to get off of SN/SSRIs a bright, depression-free future.

 

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Altostrata

ang, if you have subscribed to SurvivingAntidepressants Facebook page, new topics from this site might appear in your FB feed.

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stan

all people eat daily 5-htp in food, bananas, tomatos etc, if we take chemical extract concentration from the food or griffonia, it becomes a medicament, and a medicament is a toxic, a poison with his side-effects, so you are only taking a daily toxic... 

no miracle, you are on the board as many, and putting many links, you do not write your details of your original sickness, what taken years etc, so it is difficult to follow...

if tomorrow you leave and have a new life , ok, but today it is not the case, and i know your 10 years drugged give tardive complications, nothing is won

 

friendly

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Altostrata

St. John's Wort is a noradrenergic and a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI). Some people will have bad reactions.

 

Withdrawal syndrome is not "depression," it is entirely different.

 

Please read our discussions of all the supplements you're interested in.

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Petunia

 

Please would you clarify the tapering history in your signature. You were first on antidepressants for 10 weeks, but you don't say which one and the dose. There are no details for the second time you tried antidepressants. Which drug, what dose and how long were you on them?

 

I was on SSRIs for 10 years. Their functionality is essentially the same, with SNRIs doing 3-10% norepinephrine reuptake inhibition compared to serotonin.  Serotonin in the brain is the primary focus of all SN/SNRIs.

 

 

Your drug and tapering history is still not clear to me, which makes it difficult to know how much value there is in what you are claiming.

 

 

My success & the success of others who desperately wanted to get off of SN/SSRIs is reason enough for people to try. 

 

 

How many other people have had success with your program? Would you please provide more details about these other people, their drug histories and how your program helped them avoid withdrawal symptoms?

 

For anyone else reading this thread, I strongly suggest that you DO NOT suddenly stop taking your medication.  See:

 

Intro to antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

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mammaP

I am sorry Gordon but you sound just like my old psychiatrist...... one AD will not work, you need a tricyclic, an antipsychotic and an anti epileptic. Oh and we'll throw in a beta blocker and benzo just to be sure. As your page says, the supplements work the same way as the drugs, so they are simply replacing them.  Some people can stop drugs with no problem,some will claim they have been on and off drugs for years with no withdrawals, so why do they end up on and off them? You also say that a maintenance dose is needed, so it is not a way to get odd ADs if they are still needed. 

 

I'm sorry but after seeing all the suffering we see here day in and day out, I believe that your method is dangerous and could harm some people. 

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pillprob

Dear Mr. Gordon sir. There is not a whole lot of truth to what you have put on this site and I believe that some people realized this and pinged you for what you truly are.

 

There are too many variables to this subject and it's not correct to come on here and portray 5HTP as some kind of magic supplement. It surely is not.

 

I am not making any final conclusions just yet but there are strong indicators in your typing that spells SALESMAN. I have been into holistic medicine for over thirty six years and I've tried every herb, supplement and every other concoction known to man (exaggeration).

 

Some supplements have their place when the time is right and I believe the time is rarely right for allot of these when you are tapering or withdrawing from psychotropic drugs.

 

I also would point out that there are many supplements and particularly amino acids that would be a much better choice than 5HTP. I personally had a bad reaction from a single dose of 5HTP that lasted about three days.

 

Every person on this earth has a completely different biochemistry within them. One man's cure is another man's poison, especially with people that are coming off of or withdrawing from drugs

 

Their is not a whole lot of supplements that help a dysregulated CNS. From my experience, good food, exercise and sleep is the best protical. I will add more at a later time. There is no simple short answer to this subject. There are many variables.

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purplesky

Some people need real AD medication, usually for the rest of their lives. Most people however can't stay with the same medication because it usually poops out after several years. This is where the problems begin because people start looking on the Internet for answers as to why their AD no longer works, only to be misguided by the belief that vitamins, minerals, herbs and amino acids hold the answers to their problems.

 

5-http will not and can not treat depression or anxiety. Neither can fish oil, b complex, l-tryptophan, l-tyrosine, vitamin D or any other supplement. That is because most people's depression is not as a result of a deficiency. Even if you are deficient, you probably wouldn't know it. Take the old Vitamin D scenario for example. Most people are deficient in D, however there are no health implications. If one assumes that their D deficiency is causing them depression, an attempt can be made to top up D over a long period, only to still feel depressed. That is because their D deficiency wasn't playing any part in their depression in the first place.

 

If someone is really against SSRIs or any other medicine, the best hope is exercise. Diet may play a part, but again people need to be careful here. A good diet is not a low fat, no sugar, no salt diet. Too many people believe that cutting alcohol, caffeine, sugar and all these other apparently bad things will solve their problems - it won't. Try abstaining from these things for 6 months and see how you feel, my guess is either probably the same, or possibly worse as you're not getting any enjoyment. Bottom line, these "bad" foods are actually good for you, in moderation that is.

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compsports

Some people need real AD medication, usually for the rest of their lives.

 

And your proof is?

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purplesky

 

Some people need real AD medication, usually for the rest of their lives.

 

And your proof is?

People's experiences in the real world. I know too many people who have been depressed all of their lives, and nothing and I mean NOTHING works but medication. Many of these people have already tried everything under the sun, from vitamins, herbs, aminos, exercise, very strict diet, CBT, change in outlook... the list is endless. None of it has even made a dent. Life isn't fair, especially when someone who doesn't want to take medication has to, but that's just life.

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compsports

 

 

Some people need real AD medication, usually for the rest of their lives.

And your proof is?

People's experiences in the real world. I know too many people who have been depressed all of their lives, and nothing and I mean NOTHING works but medication. Many of these people have already tried everything under the sun, from vitamins, herbs, aminos, exercise, very strict diet, CBT, change in outlook... the list is endless. None of it has even made a dent. Life isn't fair, especially when someone who doesn't want to take medication has to, but that's just life.

 

I am not doubting that medication helps a minority of people.   But again, my question which you didn't answer is what proof do you have that this is needed for life?  

 

CS

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purplesky

 

 

 

Some people need real AD medication, usually for the rest of their lives.

And your proof is?

People's experiences in the real world. I know too many people who have been depressed all of their lives, and nothing and I mean NOTHING works but medication. Many of these people have already tried everything under the sun, from vitamins, herbs, aminos, exercise, very strict diet, CBT, change in outlook... the list is endless. None of it has even made a dent. Life isn't fair, especially when someone who doesn't want to take medication has to, but that's just life.

 

I am not doubting that medication helps a minority of people.   But again, my question which you didn't answer is what proof do you have that this is needed for life?  

 

CS

 

I know very few people who can get through long term depression without medication. As soon as they come off the medication, they deteriorate back to where they started. Go back on the medication, their condition improves. That is all the proof I need.

 

It's not the case that medication only helps a minority of people. No, it doesn't always help someone who was put on an SSRI who shouldn't have been, for example due to a short low spell because of the death of a loved one for example. Those people were likely not clinically depressed in the first place but were just going through a rough patch. On the other hand, you have people like myself who has always suffered a very low mood just about every day. There was no trigger for me coming down with depression or anxiety - nothing bad has ever happened to me to cause me to feel the way I do. It makes no difference what I do, and believe me, before SSRIs I tried everything and anything to help with the mood.... nothing worked. SSRIs work for me pretty quickly. Paroxetine started to work within 3 days. Sertraline within about 1 week. I had to stop taking Paroxetine after about 10 years as it stopped working. 

 

My scenario is not unlike that of many people who are crippled with depression without a true cause. Some people just have a continuous low mood. If your natural body chemistry allows for good neurotransmitter production and transmission, you are likely in a stable to good mood most days. I'm not one of those people unfortunately. Substances like 5-htp and tryptophan may form the building blocks to serotonin in theory, but the results can not be achieved in practice, mainly because they do not work on the brain. If the problem is a serotonin deficiency, or an impaired communication pathway that involves serotonin, and I believe it is, it is only fair to assume that a drug that manipulates this will be successful in achieving remission. Take the drug away, back to square one. If 5-htp did the job, great, I'd be all over it, unfortunately no natural vitamin, herb, mineral or amino will even get close. 

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Fresh

Please add dates to your signature Gordon , so we can understand your journey.  

And dosages , and which antidepressants you were taking.  It's rather vague.

 

Your withdrawal sound quite unusual , I haven't heard anyone describe "puking and blood everywhere".

 

How long has it been since you stopped antidepressants the last time?

 

Fresh

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Petunia
 If the problem is a serotonin deficiency, or an impaired communication pathway that involves serotonin, and I believe it is, it is only fair to assume that a drug that manipulates this will be successful in achieving remission.

 

 

The idea that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance is a myth.

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

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Altostrata

Withdrawal syndrome is almost always mistaken for "relapse"; to some, this indicates the need for life-long drugs.

 

Many, many people on this site, perhaps most of them, have heard this from their doctors, even those who were initially put on an antidepressants for conditions unrelated to "depression."

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pillprob

From the Book, "Depression Free Naturally":

 

A supposedly “safe” form of tryptophan, 5HTP, is now available over the counter, but while 5HTP raises the serotonin levels in the body, little is admitted to the brain unless another drug, carbidopa, accompanies it. (In Europe, 5HTP is used with carbidopa.) And too much serotonin around the heart will do the same damage as we saw with fen-phen (fenfluramine, diet pills), which raised serotonin levels in the body, causing serious heart damage and death! Warning: Use tryptophan, not 5HTP, to be safe.

Larson, Joan Mathews (2011-05-11). Depression-Free, Naturally: 7 Weeks to Eliminating Anxiety, Despair, Fatigue, and Anger from Your Life (

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Maybe taking pills (any pills, unless 5 HTP can be grown on trees) for 'depression' is not a good idea at all?

 

One of our members, Johnson, went the 5HTP route and has yet to regain his sexual functioning 3 years later.

 

Far better to find a better way of coping with the ups and downs of life than popping pills. Diet, exercise, meditation, a few well placed kicks at inanimate objects to relieve stress (e.g. 'sports') may be a better way to go. And while we are at it, turning off the TV and internet to stop the relentless bombardment of ads for "Pills! Pills! More Pills" might be a good idea too.

 

Things are the way they are for a reason, sometimes.

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ang

pillprob, purplesky and GordonWarren somehow just dont sound right to me?  anyone else get his gut feeling?  Just wondering how GordonWarren has no personal thread, but publishes in a new topic 5 htp, and this somehow ends up on a facebook thread, free publicity?  Well done!  Come on   

 

""After reading about Andreas Lubitz & the Germanwings disaster, the only difference between him & me is that someone intervened before I got the chance to kill somebody.  It was at that point that I tried to quit cold-turkey (see 2nd attempt in my "tapering" history).""

 

straight thru to fb ad for surviving antidepressants?  Well done Gordon, and purplessky and pill what pillprob?  none of you pretend people ever been on antidepressants, damn obvious!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Ang,

 

You don't quite understand how facebook works. Ignore those people on your fb feed, they aren't 'doing anything'. If there is anyone here with a better understanding of how fb works, maybe they can post you a link to a good explanation.

 

Better yet, stop reading the SA fb page and get it out of your feed as it is obviously pretty upsetting to you. One of the many reasons I don't like fb but I am having to learn how to use it in order to promote the shop I am working for.

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Altostrata

pillprob, all those books about treating "depression" naturally are treating something entirely different from withdrawal symptoms.

 

Withdrawal syndrome is not "depression."

 

This thread has gone off into a very confused and misleading direction. I'm closing it now.

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GordonWarren

My pusher (dr.) got me hooked on benzos 10 years ago (5mg/day, which is the equivalent of 100mg/day of valium).  He told me that the meds I was taking was a bridge to recovery from trauma & job burnout.  What a crock of BS that was!  I recently decided to take matters into my own hands and get off of clonazepam for good.  This link got me started. http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n09.shtml

While xanax is the same strength as clonazepam, 5mg proved too much to quit all at once, so I began the following taper, changing and adding things as I saw fit (I've been reading info about orthomolecular medicine & ordered some books from Amazon). The basic theory is that people with severe illnesses (especially those taking prescription meds) have "maxed out" their vitamin & mineral reserves and require megadoses of certain vitamins to give patients the nutrients they need to recover.

Week 1:  Cut back from 5mg clonazepam to 4mg per day
Daily Vitamin Intake
- not much, just 3mg of melatonin an hour to 2 hours before bed (when you take it is important, because it's a hormone that will reset your bodyclock).  I cut clonazepam back from 3mg to 2mg before bedtime. No ill effects reported, but this was just dumb luck on my part.  Week 2 is a more solid approach (one to imitate if you are hooked on benzos and want to get off of them).

Week 2:  Cut back from 4mg to 3mg per day
Daily Vitamin Intake
- 500mg niacin taken right after lunch (feel the flush--no health worries, it's natural)
- 1000mg niacinamide taken between 2 & 3pm
- 500mg vitamin C taken between 2 & 3pm (blocks nausea often caused by niacinamide in the liver)
- 1000mg niacinamide taken between 4 & 5pm
- 500mg vitamin C taken between 4 & 5pm (same time as niacinamide)
- 1mg clonazepam taken at 2pm
- 2mg clonazepam taken at bedtime
- 3mg melatonin taken 90 minutes before bedtime
---------------------------------
Additional vitamins taken for general health
- 1 centrum multivitamin (breakfast)
- 1 calcium with magnesium & zinc (breakfast)
- 1 vitamin B12 (100 mcg, breakfast)
- 1 vitamin B (mix of B1, B2, B3, & B6 - trace amounts, breakfast)
- 1 vitamin A (3000 mcg, lunch) aka 10,000 IU (international units)
- 1 vitamin E (180mg, lunch) aka 400 IU (don't ask me how they calculate it; I'm just reading labels)

SUGGESTION:  Don't take vitamins after 5pm unless you want to be squirrelly all night (the only exception would be non-flush niacin, which I probably will be taking when I attempt to cut back my night-time meds--they will be the toughest to shake).  Have a drink (booze) or your favorite GABA enhancer if you are anxious and take more niacinamide & vitmain C the next day to increase GABA in your system without puking.

Week 3:  Cutting back from 3mg to 2mg (proposed, I'll let you know how it works out & what adjustments, if any, I had to make).
Daily Vitamin Intake
- 500mg niacin taken right after lunch (feel the flush--no health worries, it's natural)
- 1000mg niacinamide taken between 2 & 3pm
- 500mg vitamin C taken between 2 & 3pm (blocks nausea often caused by niacinamide in the liver)
- 1500mg niacinamide taken between 3 & 5pm
- 1000mg vitamin C taken between 3 & 5pm (same time as niacinamide)
- 500mg niacin taken between 4 & 5pm
- 2mg clonazepam taken at bedtime (none during the day at all)
- 3mg melatonin taken 90 minutes before bedtime
---------------------------------
Additional vitamins taken for general health
- 1 centrum multivitamin (breakfast)
- 1 calcium with magnesium & zinc (breakfast)
- 1 vitamin B12 (100 mcg, breakfast)
- 1 vitamin B (mix of B1, B2, B3, & B6 - trace amounts, breakfast)
- 1 vitamin A (3000 mcg, lunch) aka 10,000 IU (international units)
- 1 vitamin E (180mg, lunch) aka 400 IU

What really got me interested in orthomolecular medicine was shortly after I started taking niacinamide, my depression completely disappeared after 38 years!  This was an unexpected benefit after quitting effexor, which I did easily using 5-HTP.  That thread may still be here somewhere.  I put it up a couple of weeks ago.  However, 5-HTP made me moody; now I don't have to take 5-HTP at all.  That got me drinking the orthomolecular koolaid, as anybody who has suffered severe depression would. 

If you would like to quit benzos using vitamin B3 (niacinamide & niacin), OR tackle your depression using niacinamide & vitamin C, share your progress & report any good/bad effects.  I'll keep this thread updated as I wean myself off of benzos for good.

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