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The Pill - depression

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btdt

https://nwhn.org/25th_anniversary

 

I did not know the pill caused depression.. bet I am not the only one who didn't know. 

 

 

An old book with information I did not know I have not read it but I intend to this is a article with some info. 

 

"Almost twenty-five years ago one woman set out on a powerful crusade to warn women about the dangers of the contraceptive pill. Barbara Seaman and her book, The Doctors' Case Against the Pill, unearthed some of the best kept secrets in women's health at the time. Many women had been suffering needlessly from blood clots, heart attacks, strokes, depression, suicide, obesity, and lack of sex drive. Unbeknownst to them, these were all side effects from the birth control pill. In The Doctors' Case Against the Pill, through touching personal interviews and rigorous scientific inquiry, Barbara Seaman exposed the dark side of a pill that drug companies claimed and many women believed to be a "miracle drug."

At the time of the book's publication in October 1969, an estimated 12 to 15 million women throughout the world were taking some kind of oral contraceptive. The Federal Drug Administration (FDA) approved the pill for contraceptive use in 1960 without including any warning of its potentially harmful side effects. Therefore, women who elected to take the pill were making an uninformed and often damaging choice that could have been avoided. According to Sheryl Burt Ruzek in The Women's Health Movement: Feminist Alternatives Medical Control, Barbara Seaman called this lack of honesty a "basic violation of civil rights where men who are not at risk from reproduction, control women who are." In writing The Doctors' Case Against the Pill, Barbara Seaman became the first woman to expose these consequences and simultaneously ignite the fire which began the modern women's health movement."  

Apparently there is a new updated version that covers new forms like norplant ect... 

http://www.amazon.ca/The-Doctors-Case-Against-Pill/dp/0897931815

 

Since I have been doing this wd stuff I have noticed women have a more difficult time in withdrawal when periods are coming.. I do think this complicates withdrawal ...some who had been on birth control for years questioned the pill once they were in withdrawal. I can't say what affects birth control have on a person in withdrawal I only know what women have told me... as far as I know no studies have been done on contraceptive and antidepressants... interactions ect. 

We are half the populations it would be nice to know some facts... 

I would like to open up this conversation to have a place to talk about how these meds may be affecting woman differently because of our gender. 

 

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btdt

I may be a bit slow.. could they have been doing this to turn women to using formula rather then breast feed?  I have to get this book. 

 

"The historic beginning of Barbara Seaman's interest in women's health occurred in a hospital room just after the birth of her first child. She, like the other mothers in the ward, had been given pills to take every four hours. When she inquired about the medicine, medical personnel refused to answer her. Her son became very ill, and eventually she learned that the pills were laxatives that were passing through her breast milk to her newborn son. The laxatives were freely given to new mothers because, in 1957, it was assumed that all women would use infant formula rather than breastfeed. It was very difficult to establish breastfeeding in a hospital environment, not only because of the laxatives, but because nurses would swab mothers' nipples with alcohol (which cracked them) and then paint them with nupercanal (the taste of which repulsed the infants). According to Seaman, "I found my vocation when I sold my first article on how to subvert the breastfeeding practices in hospitals to a magazine called Mother's Manual for $50 in 1960," right after her daughter was born. And so began Barbara Seaman's commitment to inform the public and address women's health needs. "

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westcoast

When my mother had a child around that time there appeared in her room a case of formula; all the new mothers got it. It was like the drug reps coming 'round to the docs. Do they still do that? You must get bombarded with things online and by mail if your web habits suggest you're pregnant.

 

I don't know why they'd dose you up with a laxative, unless pain killers or some aspect of giving birth indicates it.

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btdt

They don't want you to crap on the table during delivery so they tend to look after that part early on but after it is to ease the pain of stitches and or whatever other trauma post delivery. 

 

I had both an enema before and laxatives after but not a word was said as to the why of anything.  I wanted to breast feed but did not as I was infected and they said it would make the baby sick.  

 

Everyone left the hosp in those days with bottles of formula and some money off papers for the formula the baby was put on in the hosp ... I was told to keep the same formula but it did not work out it made my baby ill. 

 

Babies are big business I am sure your right about the bombardment. 

 

Most interesting to me is how they treated the breasts of the woman in hosp to make breast feeding less pleasing to baby and mother... knowing what we do today about immunity and auto immune diseases... and breastfeeding links to these issues... what they did was insane. 

 

I bet there are things to learn in those old feminist books things we would never even dream of... relating to conception pregnancy and delivery....and womans health including mental health.  Seems there was a time there pharma did not have all the facts hid away I want to know. 

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westcoast

My mother saved the brochure for the maternity hospital. The prices for everything were listed. Nothing was more than about $35. The anesthesia, the doctor who delivered the baby--it came to about $100.

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InvisibleUnless

people often view these things as 'misogynistic' or classist but its the same old story of simple, pure profits.  the motives of some people along the way, like misinformed nurses or doctors, dont outpace the structure of top-down dissemination of both product and product information.  women arent targeted because they are perceived as different in terms of their humanity and rights, but rather because the profits which can be extracted from them require a different angle of consideration from time period to time period.

 

women being more responsible for childcare in that era meant targeting them, and manipulating their caring, in order to proliferation ideas that control their behavior and keep the money rolling in.  i think there were some lawsuits, or at least some activism, regarding artificial milk, and so some doctors offices always have it available but arent allowed to push it on you or suggest it is the better way to go.  childbirthing and early childcare are some of the most profitable sources of income of any sector, especially in medicine.  babies are the one most inevitable thing about human life, and early child care is more prolific than any other age because everyone older was once a baby, but not all babies get the chance to grow up.

 

the information regarding how dangerous medical treatments and medications are have not been hidden by big pharma...at least not in the way of being suppressed like the government would hide knowledge by killing everyone in the way and vaulting stuff away.  its more that, now more than ever, they saturate the public media outlets and sources of publication so that their lies outnumber the truth 1,000,000 to 1.  you dont need to suppress something that is already hidden in plain sight.  a lot of the 50s, 60s, and 70s feminist and anarchist materials have a lot of important information that is still relevant today.  not all the science is up to snuff, but social theory is the main thing to draw from it all---people who were around and writing when institutionalization was still a widespread sociopolitical move against women and the poisoning of our food sources was picking up speed after WWII.

 

as a final note---the emotional importance/significance of breastfeeding means that poor medical and care treatment in early life leads to less well-adjusted adults.  the less well-adjusted you are, the greater a consumer you tend to be.  imagine all the additional healthcare bills (psych, 'common' physical ailments like headaches or heartburn), additional sales of coping mechanisms like high fat/high sugar foods, movies, and social activities, and other economic incentives to making sure we dont find a perfect equilibrium early on.  (of course, not all mothers are capable of breastfeeding, but there are ways of fostering emotional connection through bottlefeeding in those cases.)

 

we are a society increasingly engaged in furthering the radicalness of our ego-isolation, and its a self-perpetuating process because the more isolated we are, the more we think we are not isolated enough, since we feel terrible to be isolated but are taught that isolation is what solves emotional problems; self-reliance, financial independence, emotional distance.  idiots trying to shill that we, as utterly communal mammals that have only ever survived through species cooperation, are actually fully capable of having lives and meaning unto ourselves, divorced from the greater community and its mutual dependence for survival.  personhood is important, but we are only defining ourselves in comparison to others when we try to speak of 'uniqueness' anyway...its always a dependency no matter what way you slice it.

 

so, yes, chemical/hormonal birth control methods can have serious consequences, and i think they are pretty scammy.  but, all forms of birth control can have their downsides.  i think we need to move back to more natural methods of maintaining our bodies and societies, and such methods do exist for birth control as well.  prehistoric humans did not undergo uncontrollable population explosion because they knew how to appropriately control growth while still having lots of sex.

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btdt

Still the fact that the pills causes depression IS A BIG DEAL  if you think of how many woman take the pills and how women out number men on antidepressants.  

 

I don't want to lose the fact as it is a big deal. 

 

Not breast feeding leave the child at risk for further health problems we know this now.  It is biology not psychology. 

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btdt

people often view these things as 'misogynistic' or classist but its the same old story of simple, pure profits.  the motives of some people along the way, like misinformed nurses or doctors, dont outpace the structure of top-down dissemination of both product and product information.  women arent targeted because they are perceived as different in terms of their humanity and rights, but rather because the profits which can be extracted from them require a different angle of consideration from time period to time period.

 

women being more responsible for childcare in that era meant targeting them, and manipulating their caring, in order to proliferation ideas that control their behavior and keep the money rolling in.  i think there were some lawsuits, or at least some activism, regarding artificial milk, and so some doctors offices always have it available but arent allowed to push it on you or suggest it is the better way to go.  childbirthing and early childcare are some of the most profitable sources of income of any sector, especially in medicine.  babies are the one most inevitable thing about human life, and early child care is more prolific than any other age because everyone older was once a baby, but not all babies get the chance to grow up.

 

the information regarding how dangerous medical treatments and medications are have not been hidden by big pharma...at least not in the way of being suppressed like the government would hide knowledge by killing everyone in the way and vaulting stuff away.  its more that, now more than ever, they saturate the public media outlets and sources of publication so that their lies outnumber the truth 1,000,000 to 1.  you dont need to suppress something that is already hidden in plain sight.  a lot of the 50s, 60s, and 70s feminist and anarchist materials have a lot of important information that is still relevant today.  not all the science is up to snuff, but social theory is the main thing to draw from it all---people who were around and writing when institutionalization was still a widespread sociopolitical move against women and the poisoning of our food sources was picking up speed after WWII.

 

as a final note---the emotional importance/significance of breastfeeding means that poor medical and care treatment in early life leads to less well-adjusted adults.  the less well-adjusted you are, the greater a consumer you tend to be.  imagine all the additional healthcare bills (psych, 'common' physical ailments like headaches or heartburn), additional sales of coping mechanisms like high fat/high sugar foods, movies, and social activities, and other economic incentives to making sure we dont find a perfect equilibrium early on.  (of course, not all mothers are capable of breastfeeding, but there are ways of fostering emotional connection through bottlefeeding in those cases.)

 

we are a society increasingly engaged in furthering the radicalness of our ego-isolation, and its a self-perpetuating process because the more isolated we are, the more we think we are not isolated enough, since we feel terrible to be isolated but are taught that isolation is what solves emotional problems; self-reliance, financial independence, emotional distance.  idiots trying to shill that we, as utterly communal mammals that have only ever survived through species cooperation, are actually fully capable of having lives and meaning unto ourselves, divorced from the greater community and its mutual dependence for survival.  personhood is important, but we are only defining ourselves in comparison to others when we try to speak of 'uniqueness' anyway...its always a dependency no matter what way you slice it.

 

so, yes, chemical/hormonal birth control methods can have serious consequences, and i think they are pretty scammy.  but, all forms of birth control can have their downsides.  i think we need to move back to more natural methods of maintaining our bodies and societies, and such methods do exist for birth control as well.  prehistoric humans did not undergo uncontrollable population explosion because they knew how to appropriately control growth while still having lots of sex.

"the information regarding how dangerous medical treatments and medications are have not been hidden by big pharma"

 

yes it was hidden

 

At the time of the book's publication in October 1969, an estimated 12 to 15 million women throughout the world were taking some kind of oral contraceptive. The Federal Drug Administration (FDA) approved the pill for contraceptive use in 1960 without including any warning of its potentially harmful side effects. Therefore, women who elected to take the pill were making an uninformed and often damaging choice that could have been avoided.

 

I had a stroke in 1977 from birth control pills was the insert in the package I have no idea I don't know if or when Canada demanded it. I will tell you for sure my doctor did not respond to the warnings as I repeatedly went back time after time with head aches and aching legs... the entire 3 months I was taking the pill.  My arm went numb once when I told him he said I was rejecting my baby ... I could have knocked him in the head I loved me baby with all I had.. idiot... now I know it was a warning I was about to have a stroke.. as were the head aches that went on day after day after day. 

 

It was a small stroke but it was still a stroke I am not to ever have a hormone of any sort ever again as long as I live that doctors words post stroke. 

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WinningThrough

I haven't read right through this thread but it caught my eye. I have two friends who had pretty serious depression when they were on the pill which cleared up after they came off. One had to stop work because of it and the other could barely work, was suicidal and work was the only thing she could just about do but she could hardly cope with it.

 

I've often wondered about the hormone connection with this. I was very perimenopausal just before it happened. I'm now almost two years post menopause. I'm sure this is playing into how I feel. I'm having a very very bad menopause. It was a bad menopause before the drugs. I had all the symptoms but in withdrawal they are all about 20 times worse. These are in addition to all the drug symptoms. I don't know if the drugs made my menopause worse, if my menopause makes my withdrawal worse, or both. But hormones sure aren't helping, that I'm certain of.

 

I read a while ago on the benzo site that a guy took pregnelalone (can't remember if that's the right word but it's something like that) which is some sort of pre cursor to progesterone. He took it for just a few weeks then stopped. He had terrible withdrawal with the same sort of symptoms as benzo/antidepressant withdrawal. He had dreadful mental symptoms.

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btdt

I haven't read right through this thread but it caught my eye. I have two friends who had pretty serious depression when they were on the pill which cleared up after they came off. One had to stop work because of it and the other could barely work, was suicidal and work was the only thing she could just about do but she could hardly cope with it.

 

I've often wondered about the hormone connection with this. I was very perimenopausal just before it happened. I'm now almost two years post menopause. I'm sure this is playing into how I feel. I'm having a very very bad menopause. It was a bad menopause before the drugs. I had all the symptoms but in withdrawal they are all about 20 times worse. These are in addition to all the drug symptoms. I don't know if the drugs made my menopause worse, if my menopause makes my withdrawal worse, or both. But hormones sure aren't helping, that I'm certain of.

 

I read a while ago on the benzo site that a guy took pregnelalone (can't remember if that's the right word but it's something like that) which is some sort of pre cursor to progesterone. He took it for just a few weeks then stopped. He had terrible withdrawal with the same sort of symptoms as benzo/antidepressant withdrawal. He had dreadful mental symptoms.

On the topix site we had some women who were given effexor to treat hot flashes and others with breast cancer taking it for the same reason... I wish that information was still around as I can't recall what all it said.  I know some women there had very early menopause they thought was caused by effexor.  

 

I would have to get digging in medial file to find the exact dates but the year before I quit effexor my hormones were all over the map even pre pubesent... there is more to this than we see just now of that I am sure and knowing how birth control causes woman to have depression may be part of the answer.. I have not looked I wonder if they figured out how that all works yet. 

 

I would seem obvious with post partum that hormones can cause depression that is a no brainer even before the pills .. maybe i will have to read the book in the first post to lean how bc pills cause depression. but I really wish somebody else would read it and just tell me not much of  a reader lately

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InvisibleUnless

Still the fact that the pills causes depression IS A BIG DEAL  if you think of how many woman take the pills and how women out number men on antidepressants.  

 

I don't want to lose the fact as it is a big deal. 

 

Not breast feeding leave the child at risk for further health problems we know this now.  It is biology not psychology.

biology is inseparable from psychology, psychology is just the study of the conscious and otherwise mental manifestations of biology.

 

i did not mean my post to seem as downplaying the risks. blood clots/strokes and depression/suicide are the two main things we are warned about by doctors and advertisements, but the stats on them are surely underrepresentative of the risks, and i cannot speak for how informed or informing particular doctors are, only the experiences of myself and some of the people i have known.

 

yes it was hidden

what i said was that big pharma cant 'hide' things in the same sense as the government, only 'control access'. they can purposely neglect to disclose the dangers, but once the dangers have been observed, they cannot quell the social backlash. of course, many people, especially mainstream individuals, will not have immediate access to the information being slowly discovered by the victims of fraudulent medicating, but i was trying to draw the distinction between, essentially, 'taking away completely' [from the social consciousness] and simply 'never having' [been introduced to the social consciousness].

 

i wanted to make that distinction in my original post largely because i felt it was important to reinforce the solidity of the claims made by publications like the very one you are citing---the information was available, both through anecdotal experience and through the observations of non-pharma medical personnel/professionals, but the proliferation of that information was not a goal of the people profiting off the sales of the drug, naturally. and, as we see in cases like this, the media, the government, and the medical industry are tied into a collective bargaining position so there is often a fairly uniform policy between them all about what beliefs to propagate.

 

i wondered, later this afternoon, why this is so...why, especially in america, we supposedly have 'rights', and expectations of equality, but are constantly misled because we are so reliant and trusting. i think we are raised to trust the government, and media, and institutions because constant scrutiny would make it a lot harder to sell us stuff. critical thinking is pretty much the opposite of consumerism. and people caught onto that, as well, so the 90s and 00s have been all about 'variety of choice'...because if you can choose the color or flavor of whats killing you, you can make a "critical assessment" instead of just taking their word for it! (hah, right?)

 

so theres a lot of mobster shite with big pharma...cooking books, hiding data, even threats and murder, but when a growing group of people believe something the government doesnt like, they have the recourse of absolute genocide. this has been used against intellectuals, political persuasions, religious orders, etc across time. so, i am not meaning to make the influence of big pharma and their propaganda machine seem inconsequential, i am just trying to state that "the truth is out there" (to quote a cliche). our enemy is not any one institution or entity, but rather the attitude that others should be accountable for our choices, and the isolationist pressure from society so that we conform and damn the cost. (and that is, also, not to say 'the people shouldve known better'---thats the opposite of what im saying. im saying we need to foster a new system of thinking and sharing, because sharing the truth about one issue, even a significant and broadly reaching issue such as birth control, does not solve the depth of the problem we face in all of our decisions about consumption and lifestyle.)

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btdt

". i think we are raised to trust the government, and media, and institutions because constant scrutiny would make it a lot harder to sell us stuff. critical thinking is pretty much the opposite of consumerism. and people caught onto that, as well, so the 90s and 00s have been all about 'variety of choice'...because if you can choose the color or flavor of whats killing you, you can make a "critical assessment" instead of just taking their word for it! (hah, right?)"

 

Yes I was raised to trust them.. but I wonder if my father has survived to father me if I would have been taught differently he knew more of the world than my mother.  Just on my mind... is all as I recalled seeing a video that shocked me it was in the USA when the gov't turned the army on the people...it was black and white and quite unsettling in my nativity I thought it unjust but also that it could not happen here in good old Canada ... then I watch the G20 that changed my mind. 

 

I see your point. Sure is a big task set out in your thoughts to  

 

what now I have to change the world but I can't get up... :)

even a significant and broadly reaching issue such as birth control, does not solve the depth of the problem we face in all of our decisions about consumption and lifestyle.

 

I know where does it end who know not me. 

I guess it ends when we all die but what are we leaving behind.. I guess we will leave the best we could do as every generation has. 

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InvisibleUnless

actually, your level of mobility or even how easily you can express yourself in no way keeps you from being a part of the solution.  as we discussed, its all about attitude.  what are your priorities, and how do you express those priorities?  you have been through some serious ****, and you have a greater empathy for others now also coupled with a greater understanding of some of their respective situations.  that is a position of power, and 'awakenedness'.  your wisdom and method of dealing with people from a position of love and understanding (even when that understanding is sometimes knowing the limits of your own experiences and ability to contextualize) is what makes you, or anyone, part of the solution.  your thirst for knowledge and enjoying being someone who shares that knowledge can shape some specific applications, but its all about heart.

 

i cant really speak to your upraising, but it is an interesting question.  in my own life, i suppose my father has a more critical eye on things than my mother, but they are both very political and religious instead of logical and objective.  its pretty rare, at least the past 30 years, to have parents with such a critical view of capitalism, government, and institutions in general.  pretty much anyone believing stuff we discuss here would be considered a radicalist, which can influence employability, social motility, and even personal safety.  even in america, people get illegally arrested, experimented on, or treated discriminatorily just for being anti-capitalist, or anarchist, or even simply expressing discontent with the way things are going.

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btdt

which can influence employability, social motility, and even personal safety.  even in america, people get illegally arrested, experimented on, or treated discriminatorily just for being anti-capitalist, or anarchist, or even simply expressing discontent with the way things are going.


 

A lot of people have all these things happen to them and never had a political conversation in their lives... it is not just those who speak up who are mistreated or who live with injustice.  You can speak and be treating poorly or be silent and be treated poorly... I think how you are treated is only 50% something to do with you.. on the very best day the rest is up to the folks deciding... on a bad day it is likely closer to 1% of something to do with you.... 

 

People choose how to treat others if they are corrupt and want to hurt others they will... your silence is not going to protect you in a world such as our... your silence will only guarantee it will never end.  I don't know about you that makes me feel like I am condoning injustice.

 

My family gave up a lot for my father to go and fight in ww2... his being gone for my childhood was likely related and many many other things the entire family paid a price... I can't say if justice was served as I never had a conversation with my father he died before I was old enough to talk... I am not well educated but I was taught some things about that war and how it was important to end it... I may have been sold a bill of goods like I said my father would know better as he was there and lived it... but never did get to tell me about it.  So I go on what I know and what I know is we paid all of us he paid most but we all paid... the entire family.  I think it is much harder to sell a war to men who just came back from one soldiers tend to see things politicians never see.

 

For me i can't let all we lost be in vain all he lost or the others... if we are not going to learn something from it was it just a joke.. it may be impossible but still there is value in justice I try to promote it where I think I can. in memory... maybe I am the joke.. it would seem I am.  

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InvisibleUnless

great point---we cannot truly control what happens to us or where we find ourselves or how our relationships go.  all we can do is choose what attitude to have in reacting to it all.

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westcoast

Winning et al., a hop back to hormones here...it was about 1 year before my CT/mania event, the kick-off, that a non-psych drug I had to take in order to not die caused a quick cessation of menses. I had no other symptoms of menopause that I noticed behind the chemo I was on. (I forget to feel lucky about this.)

My question is about the normal duration of menopause. I'm wondering whether, a year later, something to do with hormones made me more vulnerable to the Effexor CT Rocket to the moon.

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westcoast

why, especially in america, we supposedly have 'rights', and expectations of equality, but are constantly misled because we are so reliant and trusting. i think we are raised to trust the government, and media, and institutions because constant scrutiny would make it a lot harder to sell us stuff.

 

 

In Mexico and EE bribery was rampant, and I think it still is. But it's not a hugely visible aspect of US society. We might get the impression therefore that there is no corruption, if we think the roadside cop or the judge with his hand out is corruption, and don't see that here

 

 

We also got a sense, probably an accurate one, that everything we made, bought, and sold in the USA was the best. We didn't have to worry about defective products. That was for Eastern Europe and the hot countries elsewhere. Even things made in Japan were flimsy and cheap.

 

Flash forward to when Pharma is bigger killer than the Tylenol guy...

 

People can't believe that murderous medicine would be approved, sold, and stay on the market. They think it is crazy to say or believe that. Might be why I've seen anti-psych-drug commenters called conspiracy theorists.

 

Perhaps it is a conspiracy, hiding in plan sight. Not to kill people, but let the drugmakers launch whatever products they think will sell big. FDA might have one day decided drugs don't have to be safe anymore. --But what would they get out of it? Not for me to know :) We all trust the gov, so whatever the FDA decides is right. It isn't. They approved that sexual desire pill on Friday. Barely works. Risk of passing out. Any old time. The drug was meant as an AD, failed testing, and returned as Flibanserin or something. If there is a WD associated, the FDA should resign en masse.

 

But...did we discuss this here? The FDA's approval does not mean a drug won't kill a known percent of users. Is that okay?

 

A few of us here lost much or even all of our net worth during bizarre protracted manias. We couldn't get lawyers to save our lives. They all but hand up the phone on you. You know what? That's discriminating against the mentally ill.

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InvisibleUnless

thats a really good point.  most traveled americans will know that very many international places run heavily on bribes and extortion when it comes to paperwork, police or military checkpoints, contracting bids, etc, but dont seem to assume the same degree of skepticism and preparedness with regards to our own systems.  i dont know if its more willful ignorance or simple contradictory naivity.  either way, probably some form of pompous nationalism.

 

youre right about things changing, too.  americas demographics have shifted markedly in the past 50-80 years---the rich have become richer, the poor have become poorer, and the middle class is being divided into only the upper or lower classes through the attrition of lowered wages and raised costs of goods.  not only that, but the proportions of our populations working in various sectors and specialties has radically shifted as well---we export a lot of our middle and lower class labor to sub-lower class institutions elsewhere, which is playing a big part in why the pay gap is increasing.  so, in a sense, we used to have more to rely on, as a citizen of this country, even if we are only speaking of averaged statistics and an historic focus largely on particular classes of individuals (white male landowners).

 

the FDA was probably always a pawn, but many people have not adjusted to how cut-throat capitalism really is, because we spent the better part of 200 years on the well-fed end of it, in terms of our non-marginalized classes, and now we are starting to be on the ass end of it and realizing there has been a scheme all along.  the changes in availability of goods and advertising, due to advances in transportation, communication, and manufacturing, have created a much broader market for these expensive snake oils that have been around, in one form or another, since prehistory.

 

in this sort of economic climate, words like "discrimination" and "criminality" essentially lose their meaning.  words like that are predicated on the idea of upholding some definition of objectively equal or fair treatment, but capitalism is the opposite of equal and fair treatment.  it is mandatory inequality, and legislation towards supporting a capitalistic economy is legislating mandatory inequality.  one of the greatest brilliances of capitalism is tapping into the part of the human brain that loves to gamble.  if you win, you are a skilled and blessed individual, and if you lose...well, its just a bad day!  if you tread on people to get rich, you tell them that they just need to work harder to get to where you are and tread on their own kin, but if youre the one being tread on, its time to throw the book at those bastards and take every shortcut and cheat possible!

 

we assume, for some reason, that the government is not an arm of the industry...that lobbyists and superPACs dont guide the rules, that regulatory agencies somehow operate beyond the scientific publishing community that gets their funding and information initiatives straight from the corporations supposedly being regulated, etc.  is this because the illusion only works if we all play along?  who would be getting our money if we, as a population, didnt buy into those lies?  only someone telling an even more convincing lie...which we never find out about until we no longer find it convincing, by which time other hucksters have already stepped in anyway.  its not the moral responsibility of corporations or individuals to care about the lives they ruin, basically.  you cant fine or regulate economic actors into having a conscience (or even acting as if they did)---the problem isnt with them, because they are simply being humans.  sh*tty humans, of course, but still, operating fully within their evolutionary imperative.  so the problem must be with the system..and the system cannot be fixed from within, because internal adjustment can only perpetuate the framework already being relied upon---the framework already built quite specifically to fail us.

 

plus, if between .1% and 1% (or more) of the population is psychopaths, and tons of the industry leaders and government officials are most effective operating as many psychopaths do, there is no system of control or bargaining that will change their tactics/rackets.  all of the supposed artifices of change are about as useful as mashing playdough through a bunch of shaped plastic in the vain hope that it will magically become something besides playdough.

 

/

 

to comment on the issue of hormonal balance and life cycles...all psychotropics have the potential to influence ones hormonal cycles, especially sexual and reproductive, and different hormonal states can make us experience the effects of psychotropics---or withdrawing therefrom---differently.  hormones regulate pretty much everything---our heartbeat, emotions, digestion, who we find sexually attractive at any given time, etc.  substances that influence our hormones can change our entire state of being, and the state we begin with does alter the ranges and ways in which substances can change our situation.  being more specific than that is beyond both my capabilities and those of generalizing science---we are unique individuals, and while patterns emerge when you study large groups over time, drugs like SSRIs have such a long, scattershot list of side effects because our experiences are fundamentally incapable of being scripted.

 

also, since substances that influence our hormonal state do not operate within our normal parameters for those changes, the states they result in are not necessarily fully analogous to the natural states we could normally achieve.  so, specific to this discussion, experiences like early menopause, false menopause, non-menopausal amenorrhea as precipitated by drugs will not always function (during or afterwards) in the same ways as those same categories of state reached through other means.

 

ive recently started reading a bit about the theory that significant menstrual bleeding is partly a method of toxin removal, and is a sign that we are living with unnatural exposures (which is fairly ubiquitous in the post-industrial first world setting).  its quite possible that pre-agrarian humans experienced little or no blood loss or other health fluctuations (dietary, emotional, hormonal, etc) associated with menses and menstruation in the modern era.  this is how nature tends to operate in the wild, so i suppose it shouldnt be a shock.  but, point being---when your body is denied that capacity to purge, it might have a greater persistent toxin load and more trouble coping.  articles noting the differences between male and female health changes during puberty (like the gender distribution of acne) made it seem an interesting point, though i havent researched nearly enough to come to any solid conclusions on the mater.  either way, psychotropics change the way we store and processes toxins (along with fats, proteins, and everything else), so theres a lot of changes in play that can set you up for vulnerabilities, sensitivities, and dysfunctions, even after you have quit them.

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btdt

Winning et al., a hop back to hormones here...it was about 1 year before my CT/mania event, the kick-off, that a non-psych drug I had to take in order to not die caused a quick cessation of menses. I had no other symptoms of menopause that I noticed behind the chemo I was on. (I forget to feel lucky about this.)

 

My question is about the normal duration of menopause. I'm wondering whether, a year later, something to do with hormones made me more vulnerable to the Effexor CT Rocket to the moon.

 

Since Effexor is know to cause early menopause in some women it very well may have.. I so wish we had the benefit of the experience of the woman on topix who went on effexor either while they were taking hormone stopping drugs to fight cancer ... breast and gyno cancer mostly if I recall correctly ... the Topix site is gone tho some of it may be found at wayback machine sorting it is a pain ... as I tried.  

 

I don't know how to search the wayback site for specific pages... so I did it one at time opening links.. pain. If you know how to search it an easier way search cancer or menopause as that is where the infomation was to my best recollection.. I wish some of those woman would find this site.. maybe some day. I am sure many of them are still dealing with healty issues if they are still with us...

peace

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btdt

IU  I will get back to you need a nap

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btdt

I was looking up Thiamine on here tonight and found this quite by accident things that can make you crazy... there was the Pill again. 

 

Exogenous Toxins

The role of exogenous toxins in mental disorders is a very broad subject. Because of the limited space and scope of this article, only a brief overview is presented. Toxins can include medications, drugs of abuse, solvents, pesticides, and heavy metals. Some of the most common drugs associated with induction of a psychoactive state are as
follows[35] :

  • Antihypertensives - Reserpine, methyldopa, beta blockers
  • Oral contraceptives S
  • teroids
  • Histamine-2 blockers
  • Cancer chemotherapy agents - Vinca alkaloids, procarbazine, L -asparaginase, amphotericin, interferon
  • Psychoactive substances - Alcohol, opioids, amphetamines (withdrawal), cocaine (withdrawal) Benzodiazepines
  • Barbiturates

Idiopathic major depression is very common, as is the use of medication, alcohol, and/or illicit drugs. Separating causal factors is not always easy. A high index of clinical awareness is helpful in considering underlying causes of conditions that can appear as primary idiopathic psychiatric illness. Knowledge of the time course can also be helpful; ie, comparing the onset of symptoms to the initiation of or change in dosage of the putative offending agent.

Laboratory testing with toxicologic screening of blood and urine can assist with or confirm a toxicologic diagnosis. Knowing exactly what drugs are screened for at any individual facility is important because different routine screens include different drugs. Depending on the clinical presentation, testing for additional individual drugs may need to be specified. For example, patients with phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication may present with psychosis and with particularly agitated and violent behavior; however, most routine drug screens do not test for PCP, which can nevertheless be measured when specified.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2710-what-lab-tests-should-i-get/?hl=thiamine#entry28665

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InvisibleUnless

idiopathy---the #1 treatment market for big pharma!  on one hand, that seems completely backwards...but thats only if you arent wise to their entire way of doing things.

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btdt

Sadly they are relentless teachers. 

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RubyTuesday

Still the fact that the pills causes depression IS A BIG DEAL  if you think of how many woman take the pills and how women out number men on antidepressants.  

 

I don't want to lose the fact as it is a big deal. 

 

 

OH MY GOD IT IS SUCH A BIG DEAL.

Did I leave in my signature that I was on birth control the same time as Prozac? following an unwanted abortion in December 2001?

and all the trouble started in 2009 when I stopped the Pill. Cold turkey of course, since tapering off the Pill was never an option. Actually I was in bed for 3 weeks unable to walk with severe cramping. Doctor switched me to Yaz. no particular reason. wouldn't take my calls. major nightmare.

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RubyTuesday

 

we are a society increasingly engaged in furthering the radicalness of our ego-isolation, and its a self-perpetuating process because the more isolated we are, the more we think we are not isolated enough, since we feel terrible to be isolated but are taught that isolation is what solves emotional problems; self-reliance, financial independence, emotional distance.  idiots trying to shill that we, as utterly communal mammals that have only ever survived through species cooperation, are actually fully capable of having lives and meaning unto ourselves, divorced from the greater community and its mutual dependence for survival.  personhood is important, but we are only defining ourselves in comparison to others when we try to speak of 'uniqueness' anyway...its always a dependency no matter what way you slice it.

 

very well said. thank you for that.

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btdt

The pill robs your body of things it needs 

http://www.rodalenews.com/drug-mugging

 

Birth Control Pills
"These are drug muggers of at least eight different nutrients. If you take for more than a year, it could cause problems like panic attacks, chronic fatigue, higher risk of gallstones, depression, hypothyroidism, and weight gain," Cohen explained. "And it's all due to the hormones stealing the nutrients which are required by your body to make natural, happy, healthy neurotransmitters and sex hormones."

Possible drug-mugging side effects: Heart disease, fatigue, candida, increased risks of stroke and cancer, irritable bowel syndrome, depression, insomnia, lowered immunity, memory loss, irritability, nerve pain, hypothyroidism, inability to cope, higher risk of breast cancer

Extra nutrients you may need: Beneficial floras, magnesium, zinc, most minerals, B vitamins, vitamin C; Cohen says Hawaiian spirulina can help with trace mineral restoration.

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InvisibleUnless

really good point.  seeing doctors about issues rarely involves them covering the secondary and tertiary reactions people face because of the medications they are given.  some doctors are uninformed, some are just plain ignorant.  and many studies, as someone reminded us in posting about statin research, purposefully avoid the longitudinal parameters or specificity required to show stuff like decline from mineral leeching even though these are drugs that people are given for the rest of their lives (or close to it).

 

you could consider the off-label prescription use (and positive user reports) of birth control for reducing menstrual problems, depression, and other hormone-related issues, but just because one person might have some positive effects doesnt mean the drug impacts others like that, or is worth it in the long run either way.  there are more natural, and generally less dangerous, ways to become healthier.  ive known some people in that 'overall positive reaction' category, but dont imagine it to be a prescriptive experience.

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btdt

http://kellybroganmd.com/tag/the-pill/

 

WEDNESDAY, MAY 13TH, 2015

Did Your Gyn Tell You The Pill Could Kill?

POSTED BY KELLY BROGAN MD IN MINDFUL BIRTHING AND MOTHERINGSNIPPET

Rare risks are only rare if they happen to someone else. It’s my belief that no one is engaging the principles of informed consent when it comes to the birth control pill. Now, the science is piling up, and the signal of harm is becoming harder to ignore. The Pill Could Kill? A recent metanalysis...
read more

 

TUESDAY, APRIL 28TH, 2015

Is The Pill Changing Your Brain?

POSTED BY KELLY BROGAN MD IN MINDFUL BIRTHING AND MOTHERINGSNIPPET

Oral Contraceptives Where you look, you may find. Because oral contraceptives seized the market in 1959 and have not let go since, there has been little to no incentive to actually research the safety of these pharmaceutical products for women of varied genetic and epigenetic makeups. These are drugs for healthy people. Thus, they should...
read more

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 16TH, 2014

Does The Pill Cause Autism?

POSTED BY KELLY BROGAN MD IN MINDFUL BIRTHING AND MOTHERINGSNIPPET

This question – “What’s the cause of autism?” – belies our attachment to an old model of medicine in which diseases have linear causes and one-drug remedies. In today’s health market, sickness is syndromal. It is a collection of symptoms without a single identifiable cause, and without safe or effective treatment options. It is a...
read more

There you go my fellow Eve's this is your apple for today... 

I wish you clarity in your choices and peace always

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