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Neonic9: clozapine / Clozaril victim


Neonic9

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Hello neonic,

 

Have you read anything about neuro-plasticity?  There lots about it on-line, you can also watch you-tube clips about it.  It will give you lots of hope about how your brain can recover.  Learning about this was what gave me the hope I needed to keep on trying to heal.  Our brains are fully capable of healing, and you have already taken steps in the right direction.

 

Now what it needs is lots of support from you as it does it's healing work.  Good diet, plenty of water, fish-oil, magnesium, lots of rest, gentle exercise.  Have a look at http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/ and see what appeals to you.  The more care you give yourself the better.

 

Hugs,

Karen (living over the ditch from all you aussies ;))

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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Hi Neonic,

 

When I started writing in this forum years ago (~5) I was desperate. I have read so much horror stories about Zyprexa and I was feeling so bad, like I was dying that I did not find relief in anything. I was sick, mentally ill, physically ill and feeling devastated.

 

Some years later, here I am, I am feeling better. Still some problems persist and I am dealing with them. But I am here, I am reading less about zyprexa horror stories and more about how to recover. I am distracting my thoughts from all that cannot help me and using all that could help me to get better. I am trusting more my doctors and following their instructions, therapy, medications and recommendations. 

 

Time is very important, and maintain the desire to find the cure for our illness too. At this point I do not know if my brain is damage or no, if my brain will be the same or no. But I know that I am better than 6 years ago, and for me that It is what count now. 

 

I wish you start feeling well soon. 

Thank you for sharing your experience! I'm so sorry to hear that, but also glad you feel better now, thanks for the encouragement! 

 

Hello neonic,

 

Have you read anything about neuro-plasticity?  There lots about it on-line, you can also watch you-tube clips about it.  It will give you lots of hope about how your brain can recover.  Learning about this was what gave me the hope I needed to keep on trying to heal.  Our brains are fully capable of healing, and you have already taken steps in the right direction.

 

Now what it needs is lots of support from you as it does it's healing work.  Good diet, plenty of water, fish-oil, magnesium, lots of rest, gentle exercise.  Have a look at http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/ and see what appeals to you.  The more care you give yourself the better.

 

Hugs,

Karen (living over the ditch from all you aussies ;))

Does neuro-plasticity have to do with the frontal lobes as well? I always read about dopamines and stuff when reading about all this stuff, but people tend to avoid the topic of the frontal lobes and it worries me!

 

Thanks for the reply, great advice and tips. :)

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

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Bump, someone reply to my above post please! 

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post

I have not read about the "frontal lobe" - neuroplasticity theory. I have always read about what is neuro-plasticity, dopamine-serotonine levels. 

 

After reading about "frontal lobe", a damage to that structure can cause a disaster, an explosion in our mind, in our body. Now I do not see the connection or I have not read enough to find the connection with the psychotropic drugs we are taking. Could be nice to ask our doctors, they must probably know about it. 

 

I definitely believe neuro-plasticity deal with all our brain, and frontal lobe is an important part of it. My brain have recovered some of its normal functions, thanks god for that. 

Zyprexa 15 mg  for 5 months  in 2010. I quit cold turkey /Zyprexa 5 mg from sept 2011 to sept 2012. I quit cold turkey

Lamictal and Geodon for around 6 months (from around sept 2012 to feb 2013)

Trazodone/ Klonopin 0.5 mg / 1 mg /Quetiapine  and gabapentin 600 mg/ Risperidone and gabapentin 600 mg

Gabapentin 1200 mg  around feb 2014 to  june 2014/ Gabapentin 900 mg july 2014 to December 2014

Invega 6 mg dec 2014 (for 8 days) / Gabapentin 600 mg

Invega 6 mg April 2015 / Gabapentin 900 mg

Invega 3 mg May 2015 / Gabapentin 600 mg

Since May 25th Gabapentin 600 mg

July 24 Gabapentin 400 mg August 18 Gabapentin 300 mg

Currently taking Invega 6 mg and Venlafaxine 150 mg. 2018

2019. I took invega 3 mg for two months. I stop taking medication two days ago (11/13) I am doing ok.

In three words I can sum up everything I’ve learned about life: It goes on.

 
 
 
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  • Moderator Emeritus

As far as I can understand, the entire brain including frontal-lobes has neuro-plasticity.  This basic quality allows us to learn and develop - and heal.  The frontal-lobes are not shut off from the brain as a whole - in fact the whole brain has large areas of over-lap in terms of function etc.  

 

I'm not a very scientific person, so my understanding of this is basic.  

 

There are so many fascinating aspects of our brains' abilities.  Like how certain areas go 'off-line' during adolesence while further development is carried out, and how alcohol and drugs slow down that development.  I can't answer detailed questions about science, but if you're interested there's heaps to read.  Dr Gabor Mate and Peter A Levine are two authors that helped me a lot with this stuff.

 

I've also had some personal experience with 're-wiring' some brain pathways - such as those dealing with anger and defensiveness.  It really opened up for me an awe of what our brains can achieve.    

 

Enjoy exploring :)

Karen

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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Thanks everyone, that gives me hope.

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

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  • 9 months later...

I've been taking Clozapine 300mg a night since December 2015 last year.

 

How do I come off this drug safely?

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Neonic

 

I moved your post above into your Intro/Update topic because it is about your individual situation.  This will keep your history in one place both for yourself and other members.  It will also get noticed better here.

 

I'm not familiar with Clozapine couldn't find anything on the site when I did a search.

 

I'll let the other mods know.  Someone should be by soon and be able to answer your question.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator

Hey Neonic, aren't you the one who was protecting your frontal lobes?

 

How did this happen?  Did you "get caught"?

 

I wrote (edited to tailor to you):

I believe in "mental diversity".  You can believe in whatever you want, and listen to whomever you want, including voices that nobody but you can hear, and dance like no-one's watching  - but when your behaviour crosses a certain line, you GET CAUGHT.  One of the early goals is to learn what behaviours get you CAUGHT and never go there.  Yelling loudly in public places.  Hiding on store shelves behind the merchandise.  Threatening behaviour (even if it is harmless, it makes people uncomfortable).  Publicly proclaiming your deep spiritual belief and asking others to join you in your revelation.  Public self harm.  Crying loudly in a public place but not talking to anyone for hours.  These are just a few examples that I personally have experienced with myself and close loved ones.  If you are back on a neuroleptic - the Clozarine, you did something to GET CAUGHT.

 

If you want to stay off the drugs, you have to mind your behaviour - to not do things in public places that get you "caught."

 

That's a fat dose of Clozarine, which is an "old school" neuroleptic.

 

 Are you only taking it for sleep (that's a pretty heavy sleep drug, if you are)?  How do you feel 18 hours later?

 

Because the half life of Clozarine is 14 hours - so - it would start running down, and you could be having interdose withdrawal symptoms before you take your next dose.

 

It is an older drug, and should be soluble as a liquid.  

 

It is not a nice drug, and requires special blood tests and 

 

from:  http://www.safetyandquality.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/National-Adult-Clozapine-Titration-Chart-User-Guide.pdf

 

Metabolic and haematological monitoring of patients is required as clozapine is associated with a number of serious adverse effects such as blood dyscrasias, myocarditis and cardiomyopathy. The collection and recording of baseline, then periodic, measurements is recommended to ensure early detection of serious adverse effects. White blood cell count and neutrophil blood count are required to be registered with a clozapine patient monitoring service (CPMS) prior to dispensing clozapine.

 

I remember the mother of a friend of mine being on this, and having to do the blood tests.  It was a tough time in her life - because the drug was very effective at putting down the manifestations, but she also got sick, and lost.  She had a few "good years" on it.

 

I'm very concerned, because this same article talks about how important it is to carefully ramp up the Clozarine, not just give out a pill, and stay on that dose.  It looks like they recommend a 28 day "ramp up" period.  

 

This emphasizes to me how important it would be to taper carefully.

 

Further, it looks like "treatment guidelines" for the PBS have approved clozarine in "treatment resistant" patients who "had trouble with other antipsychotic drugs."    So they've put down your olanzapine thing as a drug reaction - instead of healthy reaction to a bad drug.  

 

Additionally, they have to give it to you initially in hospital (according to:  http://www.nps.org.au/publications/health-professional/health-news-evidence/2015/new-S100-supply-arrangements#_Toc423951420  ) and that you can only get it out of hospital if you are stable on it.

 

Are you on a treatment order?

 

Last time you CT'd, and I don't know how well it went - except that (as the literature predicts) by the end of the year you were back in hospital with a "relapse" (cough-cough - withdrawal!) and put on an older, uglier drug.

 

Are you getting regular (at least every 3 months) blood tests?

 

Because of the last time - you apparently weren't coping as well as you thought you were, and ended up back in the system.  What would you like to do differently this time?

 

What symptoms landed you in the hospital?  The "soullesness?"  What else?  How do you intend to deal with those symptoms this time?  

 

We can help you with a taper, and we can suggest techniques for you - but you also need to engage your own healing, set up a practice that will teach you how to cope in extreme states (it will serve you well your whole life), and take charge of your own behaviour.

 

Six Mistakes I've Made In Withdrawal

 

Let us know how we can help.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I've been on 300mg since December 2015. How do I come off it?

 

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Neonic - I've moved your question to the introduction thread you started in June 2015. Please post your questions in this thread so that all your history and questions are in one place.

 

Would you like us to change the title so that it reflects that your current questions are about Clozapine/Clozaril?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Sorry guys, I didn't realise my posts were being moved!

 

 

Hey Neonic, aren't you the one who was protecting your frontal lobes?

 

How did this happen?  Did you "get caught"?

 

I wrote (edited to tailor to you):

 

I believe in "mental diversity".  You can believe in whatever you want, and listen to whomever you want, including voices that nobody but you can hear, and dance like no-one's watching  - but when your behaviour crosses a certain line, you GET CAUGHT.  One of the early goals is to learn what behaviours get you CAUGHT and never go there.  Yelling loudly in public places.  Hiding on store shelves behind the merchandise.  Threatening behaviour (even if it is harmless, it makes people uncomfortable).  Publicly proclaiming your deep spiritual belief and asking others to join you in your revelation.  Public self harm.  Crying loudly in a public place but not talking to anyone for hours.  These are just a few examples that I personally have experienced with myself and close loved ones.  If you are back on a neuroleptic - the Clozarine, you did something to GET CAUGHT.

 

If you want to stay off the drugs, you have to mind your behaviour - to not do things in public places that get you "caught."

 

That's a fat dose of Clozarine, which is an "old school" neuroleptic.

 

 Are you only taking it for sleep (that's a pretty heavy sleep drug, if you are)?  How do you feel 18 hours later?

 

Because the half life of Clozarine is 14 hours - so - it would start running down, and you could be having interdose withdrawal symptoms before you take your next dose.

 

It is an older drug, and should be soluble as a liquid.  

 

It is not a nice drug, and requires special blood tests and 

 

from:  http://www.safetyandquality.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/National-Adult-Clozapine-Titration-Chart-User-Guide.pdf

 

Metabolic and haematological monitoring of patients is required as clozapine is associated with a number of serious adverse effects such as blood dyscrasias, myocarditis and cardiomyopathy. The collection and recording of baseline, then periodic, measurements is recommended to ensure early detection of serious adverse effects. White blood cell count and neutrophil blood count are required to be registered with a clozapine patient monitoring service (CPMS) prior to dispensing clozapine.

 

I remember the mother of a friend of mine being on this, and having to do the blood tests.  It was a tough time in her life - because the drug was very effective at putting down the manifestations, but she also got sick, and lost.  She had a few "good years" on it.

 

I'm very concerned, because this same article talks about how important it is to carefully ramp up the Clozarine, not just give out a pill, and stay on that dose.  It looks like they recommend a 28 day "ramp up" period.  

 

This emphasizes to me how important it would be to taper carefully.

 

Further, it looks like "treatment guidelines" for the PBS have approved clozarine in "treatment resistant" patients who "had trouble with other antipsychotic drugs."    So they've put down your olanzapine thing as a drug reaction - instead of healthy reaction to a bad drug.  

 

Additionally, they have to give it to you initially in hospital (according to:  http://www.nps.org.au/publications/health-professional/health-news-evidence/2015/new-S100-supply-arrangements#_Toc423951420  ) and that you can only get it out of hospital if you are stable on it.

 

Are you on a treatment order?

 

Last time you CT'd, and I don't know how well it went - except that (as the literature predicts) by the end of the year you were back in hospital with a "relapse" (cough-cough - withdrawal!) and put on an older, uglier drug.

 

Are you getting regular (at least every 3 months) blood tests?

 

Because of the last time - you apparently weren't coping as well as you thought you were, and ended up back in the system.  What would you like to do differently this time?

 

What symptoms landed you in the hospital?  The "soullesness?"  What else?  How do you intend to deal with those symptoms this time?  

 

We can help you with a taper, and we can suggest techniques for you - but you also need to engage your own healing, set up a practice that will teach you how to cope in extreme states (it will serve you well your whole life), and take charge of your own behaviour.

 

Six Mistakes I've Made In Withdrawal

 

Let us know how we can help.

 

I tried to kill myself last year and was put on it. I am not on a treatment order anymore.

 

Neonic - I've moved your question to the introduction thread you started in June 2015. Please post your questions in this thread so that all your history and questions are in one place.

 

Would you like us to change the title so that it reflects that your current questions are about Clozapine/Clozaril?

Yes please change the title.

 

I'd like some help with the tapering. Also, one question - I've never had psychosis before but I've heard if I come off Clozapine I will have a psychosis. This is seriously stressing me. Will it happen?

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Moderator

This is a very formative and fragile time in your life, and it will enhance your future to come off Clozaril.

 

But you will need to take care of yourself, too.  

 

Last time you came off, you ended up suicidal, in hospital, on a serious drug with a treatment order, on a very strong (and  inappropriate) drug.  

 

Can we prevent that from happening again?  What have you learned from that experience?

 

Do you have a good psychiatrist? Yolanda Lucire (see her contact info in:  Recommended doctors, practitioners and clinics) has good experience with antidepressants, but may or may not be a good fit for you.  

 

It is important that you have a prescriber who can at least keep you in supply, even if you aren't exactly taking the drugs as prescribed.  (sometimes, especially with "antipsychotics" it's better to tell them after you've been off for a year)

 

What other support do you have?  

 

Did you know that while drugs can stop a suicide attempt - talking about it prevents future suicide attempts?  It is important to have all kinds of support in your life - artistic, musical, pets, social, therapeutic, fitness related.  Spread your web, and the broader your web, the better you will survive this attempt.  Do you have a therapist?  

 

I also strongly recommend establishing a practice before you start to taper, as the practice - like mindfulness meditation, qi gong (my personal favorite, as I can move my body with it), or even yoga - something you can do alone in your house, no matter how sick you might be.  A personal practice that you do every day, builds up a "bank" of well-being - and you can make "withdrawals" later when you need them.  Look here to see what others have chosen:  Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

I suggest you familiarize yourself with PRE-TAPER protocols, before trying your first 10% :

 

Will Hall - Coming of Psychiatric Medications: A Harm Reduction Approach

 

Psych Central 6 Ways to Prepare for Antidepressant Withdrawal

 

Preparing to Taper

 

What I am learning, on your behalf, is that Clozaril is not easy to come off of.

 

You need to do this slowly, carefully.

 

I would like it very much if you could post your plans here, and we will help you along as best we can.  

 

But I think you will need more than us to do it.  You will need care, the ability to retreat and be safe - maybe even someone to sit with you through the difficult times and just "let you be."  And ways to get support and help for yourself.

 

Please read Robert Whitaker's Mad In America for some alternatives.  I'm thinking specifically of the Quaker houses in the USA and England in the 1800's.  The "mad" were just fed and kept safe, while their bodies and minds healed.  They were listened to, even when the listening didn't make much sense.  They usually recovered.

 

After you've gone through these links, and posted your plan for SUPPORT, then, we can talk about how you will get the first 10% (30 mg) off of your dose.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • Moderator

Hey Neonic - how are you sleeping?

 

My first thought about your taper is about splitting your dose, so that you are taking it 2x a day instead of 1x a day.  But I need to know more before I can recommend that, and how.

 

Are you sleeping well at night, when you are supposed to sleep?

 

How are you when you wake up?  Do you awake with panic?  Or are you doped out, made of lead?

 

Thank you.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to post

"Can we prevent that from happening again?  What have you learned from that experience?"

I'm definitely never attempting suicide again. Suicide is not the answer.

 

"What other support do you have?"

My family.

 

"What I am learning, on your behalf, is that Clozaril is not easy to come off of."

Really? Damn. I have a question. Will I have experience psychosis if I come off Clozaril? I'm afraid of this.

 

 

"I would like it very much if you could post your plans here, and we will help you along as best we can."

Um, to taper off it. Idk.

 

"Hey Neonic - how are you sleeping?"

Very well.

 

"Are you sleeping well at night, when you are supposed to sleep?"

Yes.

 

"How are you when you wake up?  Do you awake with panic?  Or are you doped out, made of lead?"

 

I wake up just fine.
 
Thank you for your help!

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Administrator

 

"What I am learning, on your behalf, is that Clozaril is not easy to come off of."

Really? Damn. I have a question. Will I have experience psychosis if I come off Clozaril? I'm afraid of this.

 

 

 

Hi, Neonic. 

 

I'm sorry you're in the position of having to come off antipsychotics again. I have an extensive 30 years experience with neuroleptics and they can be very difficult to come off of without rebound psychosis. 

 

However, going slow and doing what Jan mentioned about not doing things in public that will get you caught is important. Also, as you've experienced, psychosis is only one element at play. Being suicidal is another. I'm glad you said you won't try that again. 

 

 

 Also, one question - I've never had psychosis before but I've heard if I come off Clozapine I will have a psychosis. This is seriously stressing me. Will it happen?

 

 

 

You're actually in a very good position now because you're stable and you're sleeping. Now is the time to learn some coping skills to manage stress and anxiety. From the literature on people who come off antipsychotics, managing anxiety is key. By learning to handle anxiety, you'll also handle any insomnia that may come your way, as this is another common withdrawal symptom.

 

The fact that you've never had psychosis before is good, but did you have problems with anger? That's another reason people land on antipsychotics.

 

But here's the good news:

 

 

  • There are certain non-drug coping skills like mindfulness that will help with anxiety, insomnia, and anger all with one coping skill. And from my own experience, the chronic insomnia is what caused a lot of the rebound psychosis. So now would be a great time to learn about this and any other kind of non-drug coping skill that interests you. Here are some links:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Neuro Emotions

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

http://palousemindfulness.com/  - this is a free, 8-week long course in mindfulness

 

Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression

 

If you are dealing with anger, this is a great article about SSRI induced anger, and from my own experience, it's really accurate for antidepressant and benzodiazepine induced anger: 

 

https://npanth.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/dealing-with-anger-during-ssri-withdrawal/

 

 

By learning as much as you can now while you're stable and then doing a very slow and careful taper, you're much less likely to suffer from rebound psychosis and the other symptoms. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. Please let us know how you're doing. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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  • Moderator

Hey Neonic -  (thanks Shep, your experience exceeds mine in this department!)

 

How about your daytime symptoms?  

 

Why do you want to come off the drug?  What are the effects it is giving you that you do not like.

 

Break-through and rebound psychosis is always a possibility when coming off this class of drugs (all of them), and Clozarine is at the top of the list, as far as I can tell.

 

That's why it is vitally important to go slowly.

 

Your first taper will be to 270 mg.  What size are your tablets?  Do you only have 300 mg tablets?  Or do you have 150's?  

 

We have never tapered anyone off of these, but the principles will be the same:

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Intro to Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome

 

Healing from Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery (by Toxic Antidepressants)

 

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/

 

 

You are not giving me much to go on here.  How do you feel about splitting your dose to 2x a day?  Even if one is in the afternoon, and the other in the evening?  (it might be a difficult drug to take first thing in the morning).

 

Lacking detailed information, I'm not able to give more than general suggestions.

 

And please, let's be courteous.  This is the internet, and we cannot see each other's faces.  Words can be misconstrued, especially in emotional states.

 

I like to be as clear as possible.  How are you going to not get caught again, as you come off this drug?  

 

Have you read "Anatomy of an Epidemic" by Robert Whitaker? It's in all the public libraries here.  I suggest you have someone in your family read it, too.  It will help them understand that your desired course of action is quite sane.  When mainstream society is shocked that you want to "come off your drugs," there are actually very good evidence-based reasons for doing so, and Mr. Whitaker spells them out quite clearly. 

 

I can't do the taper for you.  You will have to read and learn and make your own decisions.  I am hoping that you opt for a nice, slow, conservative taper with lots of holds.

 

Lastly, this does not sound like a plan to me.  It does not sound like you read the "pre-tapering" suggestion links I sent you.  

 

"I would like it very much if you could post your plans here, and we will help you along as best we can."

Um, to taper off it. Idk.

 

This is not a plan.  A plan would look something like this:

I'm going to go into talk therapy.

I'm going to sign up for a tai chi class, or make myself do Chi-gung from YouTube every day.

I'm going to take a DBT group that's available to me - or I'm going to do it online.

I'm going to hang out and take group sessions at the local "wellness house" (I forget what the Brisbane one was called) and hang out there and play ping-pong.

I'm going to look at my diet, to make sure there's nothing in there which would irritate my taper.

I'm going to eliminate all recreational psychoactive substances (if you haven't already)

I'm going to tell my best mate that I'm doing this, so that he will understand.

I'm going to get a doctor, a prescriber on board, so that I can get the doses I need to taper gently (10% of previous dose, no sooner than every month)

I'm going to take an art/music/writing/photography class to give me a place to express my feelings.

There's a meditation group around the corner that I'd like to participate in.

I'm going to get informed, and have at least one family member who is almost as informed as me, so we can talk about it if things get weird.

I'm going to have a plan for what to do if things get weird.  Do I want to be locked in my room?  Sent to hospital again?  If you have enough people around you who understand, you can prevent hospital, and that is important.

 

These are plans.  "IDK I'd like to get off the drug" is an idea, but not a plan.

 

Please, read the links provided here, and ask specific questions.  

 

We need information in order to point you to more information.  And it helps to know that you are absorbing the information we have provided previously.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to post

I'm so scared I will get psychosis. Please reassure me, people. God.

 

"Sending healing vibes your way. Please let us know how you're doing."

Thanks for the helpful post.

 

"How about your daytime symptoms?"

Nothing except the dullness that antipsychotics bring.

 

"Why do you want to come off the drug?  What are the effects it is giving you that you do not like."

I want to enjoy things more, you know what I mean? These drugs dull my brain.

 

I'm going to ask my psychiatrist how to taper off it properly. 

 

Sorry I haven't answered all your questions. 

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Administrator

That's okay, Neonic. You don't have to answer everything right away.

 

Take your time and read over the links and explore. That's part of the journey of coming off these drugs. Find the non-drug coping skills that "speak" to you and discard the rest. This is your journey and you'll find your way.

 

I found mindfulness along the way, and that really helped with the rebound psychosis. It also helped with anxiety and with insomnia. So it made a difficult journey a bit more comfortable.

 

And you'll find what works for you. That's the real takeaway from this journey. It's a "process" that involves learning what you need to learn in order to safely get off the drug, and then finding out those same non-drug coping skills are what keep you off the drug the next time you have a crisis. 

 

But it's a process, not done overnight. Staying stable and withdrawing from your drug carefully and slowly will decrease the chances of psychosis. I hope we've reassured you and given you the tools you need to do this. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to post

I know I already asked this but I'm really, really scared of this happening - Will I get psychosis?!

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

That's okay, Neonic. You don't have to answer everything right away.

 

Take your time and read over the links and explore. That's part of the journey of coming off these drugs. Find the non-drug coping skills that "speak" to you and discard the rest. This is your journey and you'll find your way.

 

I found mindfulness along the way, and that really helped with the rebound psychosis. It also helped with anxiety and with insomnia. So it made a difficult journey a bit more comfortable.

 

And you'll find what works for you. That's the real takeaway from this journey. It's a "process" that involves learning what you need to learn in order to safely get off the drug, and then finding out those same non-drug coping skills are what keep you off the drug the next time you have a crisis. 

 

But it's a process, not done overnight. Staying stable and withdrawing from your drug carefully and slowly will decrease the chances of psychosis. I hope we've reassured you and given you the tools you need to do this. 

 

Hi Neonic,

 

Shep answered this in her last post.  I've quoted her post and shown the answer in blue.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • Moderator

Hey neonic:

 

 

 

I'm going to ask my psychiatrist how to taper off it properly. 

 

We find that doctors do very dangerous tapers.  And that they are not at all cooperative when you say "I want to come off of my drugs."  Especially the antipsychotic ones.

 

We suggest 10% of your current dose, per month.  And you may not be able to tell your doctor exactly what you are doing.

 

I gave you your first taper to 270 mg, which you can do right away.

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What Should I Expect From My Doctor About Withdrawal Symptoms?

 

Perhaps the best approach for you is to tell your doctor you feel numb, and want to be on the "lowest effective dose" and that you are afraid of psychosis, so you want to go very very slowly, and ask him to prescribe different sized tablets so that you can do just that.  They come in 50, 100, and 200.  So for your first dose, you can ask for some 50's, and take a 200+50+cut a 50 in half = 275.

 

That list of ideas I wrote of "things to do" for your withdrawal was not just for fun.  It was, as Shep said, a strategy to help you survive your taper whole and intact.  You may get some psychotic symptoms - but that is not the be all and end all.

 

Psychotic symptoms are experienced by many people - some studies say up to half the population.  It's what you do with those symptoms that makes the difference between "psychosis" and "functioning."  I define psychosis as a temporary state where your inner reality does not match up to the reality of people around you.

 

Some people in here call it DP/DR, and there's a discussion of it, here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1766-derealizationdepersonalization/

 

This is why it might be important to have some chi-gung, or mindfulness, or therapy, or musical instrument, or a mate to talk to - to help you through the rough bits.  

 

You haven't given me a clue as to what you'd like to try.  The more things you try, the more tools in your toolkit - the more situations you will be able to handle and survive.

 

Yes, there may be psychosis.  I cannot promise you that there will not be.  A slow taper, with support and a strong toolkit may prevent it.   But what is on the other side, is feeling yourself again, and maybe even resolving some of the issues that drove you to the drug to begin with.

 

There are thousands of people on this site asking for help.  You need to come up with some new questions.  We have answered you so far.  If it seems like we're talking from the end of a long dark tunnel, then just keep re-reading your thread and the links we give you until something sticks.

 

In short, how to get off an antipsychotic:

 

1.  Learn some coping skills and get support

2.  Taper by 10% of previous dose no sooner than once a month (we can help you figure out how to get those doses made up)

3.  Learn from your symptoms of withdrawal, and listen to your body - hold - until your symptoms are manageable. again.

 

Rinse and repeat.  The time will fly by, as you start to feel better and more free.

 

The 10% is not an arbitrary figure, it is the dose lease likely to cause rebound symptoms (like psychosis).  People go slower, and some go faster (most who go faster come to regret it).  My first exposure to 10% tapering was here:  

Will Hall - Coming of Psychiatric Medications: A Harm Reduction Approach and

Icarus Project Harm Reduction Guide To Coming Off Psychiatric Drugs

 

But Shep said it best: 

 

 

But it's a process, not done overnight. Staying stable and withdrawing from your drug carefully and slowly will decrease the chances of psychosis.

 

Don't expect your doctor to understand.  We do.  

 

This is possible, but it will take patience, diligence, and hard work on your part, too.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to post

Thanks for all the info and advice. Sorry I'm not engaging you completely but that's just how I am - I'm going my own way with things. I just wanted to know if I was going to get psychosis or not, which I'm dreading like mad.

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post

I've read of people not getting psychosis after getting off Clozapine. What do you have to say about that?

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Administrator

Hi, Neonic.

 

To a large extent, it depends upon you.  Like we've been posting on your thread, go slow and pick up some non-drug coping skills.

 

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

 

Non-drug Techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

This is something you only want to do once because the more you are off and on these drugs, the more likely you will be to get worse withdrawal symptoms, including the possibility of psychosis due to kindling:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

You've already had one cold turkey and then several months later, you ended up right back on an antipsychotic. That was my experience in the past, too. 

 

But now you have more information and can make this withdrawal a success. 

 

 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to post

Thanks Shep.

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post

My doctor reduced it to 275mg yesterday. I feel a tad better already to my amazement!

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Administrator

Hi, Neonic.

 

That's a reasonable 8.33% reduction, and I'm glad to hear you're feeling better.

 

Please keep up with your symptoms, as this will help you decide your next reductions. These links may help:

 

Rate symptoms daily to track patterns and progress

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

It sounds like your doctor is on board with your reduction, so you're doing a great job of being your own advocate. This is a very good sign. 

 

Now is the time to work on your non-drug coping skills. Your history includes some really intense emotions including suicidal thoughts, so learning how to deal with these emotions before they spiral out of control is very important. Please re-read the post I left here, as it contains a lot of great links for this:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9280-neonic9-clozapineclozaril-victim/?p=241039

 

Please keep us updated on which coping skills are helping and if you have any questions along the way. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. I hope you continue to feel better on this reduced dose. And again, great job on getting your doctor on board. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to post
  • 5 months later...

Hey, I'm still tapering off Clozapine. I'm down to 100mg.

 

I'm still stuck between a rock and a hard place. Let me explain: 

 

I want to get off this drug completely so I can enjoy life like I used to, but I'm afraid that I may end up suffering psychosis if I do, and wind up back in hospital on a higher dose.

 

I need help.

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post

Hey neonic why so long between posts.

Thanks for the update.

What are your symptoms if any.

Maybe you could update your drug sig.

So what are you saying...'i want to get off faster' ?

 

You said you are doing your own thing ..so what taper thing are you doing? I notice your rate is a little faster than the 10% rate.

Repeat after me ...'Slow and steady wins the race'

If you taper slow and steady then hopefully you wont have to worry about psychosis.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

Link to post

Hey neonic why so long between posts.

 
I didn't feel like posting before but now I do.
 

 

What are your symptoms if any.

 

None apart from the lack of enjoying life like I did when I was off drugs.

 

 

Maybe you could update your drug sig.

 
Done!
 

 

So what are you saying...'i want to get off faster' ?

 
Not really, no. What I'm saying is when I'm finally done to 25mg, should I finally get off the drug or keep it at 25mg to prevent the chance of psychosis?
so what taper thing are you doing?

 

All I've been doing is dropping it by 25mg every month.

 

 

Repeat after me ...'Slow and steady wins the race'

If you taper slow and steady then hopefully you wont have to worry about psychosis.

 
Thanks for the advice!

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Administrator

Hi, Neonic.

 

Thanks for the update. 

 

As NZ11 mentioned, you are tapering faster than the 10% rate we caution about here. 

 

 

 

Hey, I'm still tapering off Clozapine. I'm down to 100mg.

 

I'm still stuck between a rock and a hard place. Let me explain: 

 

I want to get off this drug completely so I can enjoy life like I used to, but I'm afraid that I may end up suffering psychosis if I do, and wind up back in hospital on a higher dose.

 

I need help.

 

 

From what you've stated here in your thread, you were placed on psych drugs after a suicide attempt. Do you have someone who can't prescribe drugs who you can talk to? 

 

If you didn't have psychosis (hear voices, see visions, feel you were in danger when you were in safe places, etc) before you went on these drugs, than you're only in danger of getting these symptoms if you taper too quickly.

 

So from your current 100 mg dose, you would reduce to 90 mg, as this would be 10% of your current dose.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

JanCarol - an analogy for tapering 

 

How are you making your reductions so far? Do you have a scale or have you read about doing a liquid taper? 

 

 

Please let us know how you're tapering and if you have any questions. 

 

Also, please re-read your thread. There are some wonderful links to ways of handling your symptoms with non-drug methods and tons of reassurance about this not being a permanent condition. Sometimes we need those reminders.

 

And one final reminder - go slow. It's best to take your time now than risk another hospital stay and more drugs. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to post

From what you've stated here in your thread, you were placed on psych drugs after a suicide attempt. Do you have someone who can't prescribe drugs who you can talk to? 

 

 

 
Sorta, yes. A friend.
 

 

If you didn't have psychosis (hear voices, see visions, feel you were in danger when you were in safe places, etc) before you went on these drugs, than you're only in danger of getting these symptoms if you taper too quickly.

 

 

 
That's great to hear!
 

 

How are you making your reductions so far? Do you have a scale or have you read about doing a liquid taper? 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you're asking me, but I just take it in pill form every night.

 

Please let us know how you're tapering and if you have any questions. 

 

Also, please re-read your thread. There are some wonderful links to ways of handling your symptoms with non-drug methods and tons of reassurance about this not being a permanent condition. Sometimes we need those reminders.

 

 
Okay.
 

 

And one final reminder - go slow. It's best to take your time now than risk another hospital stay and more drugs. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice.

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

 

How are you making your reductions so far? Do you have a scale or have you read about doing a liquid taper?

I'm not sure what you're asking me, but I just take it in pill form every night.

 

The pills you currently take are 100 mg dose, correct? To minimize the risk of setting off withdrawal symptoms, we suggest that people decrease by 10% or less per month. You can't get a 90 mg pill or an 81 mg pill, etc.

 

Before you start to taper clozapine, please consider how you are going to make these non-standard doses. People do that most often by weighing bits of the pill on a digital scale or by making a liquid. Shep provided links to topics that discuss each of these methods.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Still haven't had this question answered: When I'm finally down to 25mg, should I finally get off the drug or keep it at 25mg to prevent the chance of psychosis?

 

I would much appreciate answers to this.

From April 16th 2015 to May 25th 2015, Zyprexa for 39 days. 20mg for the last half of the days. I'm off them cold turkey since May 25th 2015.

Clozapine 50mg a night.

Link to post

Are you thinking that 25mg is such a low dose that people just jump off at that level?

 

 I'm currently at 0.126mg after a taper from 40mg that has taken 5.5 years and I can still notice when I change a dose.  It is generally recommended that a person taper to 0.2 - 0.1mg before making the jump to "0".  Any higher than that tends to cause a marked increase in symptoms that can take a long time to resolve.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Neonic9: clozapine / Clozaril victim

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