flowstate1310 Zopiclone Withdrawal/Rebound insomnia

[flowstate1310]

Hi all,

 

I was put on Olanzapine for 4 weeks, but after reading material on the site and others I decided to go off.

 

While taking Olanzapine I could sleep so the doctor prescribed Zopiclone 7.5mg. I've been taking it now for 4 weeks. And last night I cut it out cold turkey and didn't sleep for a single minute. I'm terrified of this withdrawal/insomnia. Has anyone else gone through this? How long should the insomnia last? How do I get through this? Do you recommend going back on a tapering?

 

I also have bipolar and am worried that this insomnia will trigger mania.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, flowstate1310.

You have rebound insomnia from quitting zopiclone. The sleep drugs also need to be tapered. See Tips for tapering off Z drugs for sleep (Ambien, Imovane, Sonata, Lunesta, Intermezzo, etc.)
 

If I were you, I'd reinstate 3/4 of a dose tonight and prepare to taper.

[oskcajga]

For the sleeping pill, I'd take 5mg for 2 weeks, then 2.5 mg for 2 weeks, and then 1.25mg for 2 weeks and then just quit.  You've only been on it for 4 weeks, so the neuroadaptations aren't THAT severe yet.  You'll have some difficulty sleeping, of course, but it won't be quite as bad as if you cold turkeyed. 

 

I'd expect sleep issues for a little while, probably another week or so after your last dose.  Won't be too intolerable though.\

 

You might also want to consider the fact that your "bipolar" "illness" is a load of nonsense.  Very few people in the general population actually have bioplar, it's highly over diagnosed.  Having periods of excessive happiness followed by depression is fairly typical.  Unless you're driving backwards up streets and proclaiming that you're the Eucharist when you're manic, and then slitting your wrists and not going to work and laying in bed for weeks at a time when you're depressed - my recommendation is to get off the medication, and go get a good talk therapist.  Medication causes brain damage, talk therapy helps you. 

 

Psyciatrists love to label people, but they're no more legitimate than a snake oils salesman at your local fair. 

 

So in response, get the heck off of the zyprexa.  There's no single drug that causes more brain damage than that one.   It's like taking a daily dose of arsenic and cynanide for your brain.  Google the side effects and the damage that that drug causes. Educate yourself. You've been on it only for 4 weeks, so taper down 20% or so every 2 weeks and get that poison out of your system.  You could probably taper it over the next month without any adverse effects.  Don't cold turkey, but I wouldn't go off of it excessively slowly either.  If it takes 1-2 months to get off of it completely, you'll almost certainly be fine and have avoided the worst drug on the market.

 

Good luck.

[flowstate1310]

I was prescribed Celexa by my General Practioner in September of 2012 to treat "Depression". At the time I had a scholarship to attend graduate school for Jazz performance but was having second thoughts as to whether or not I wanted to attend. Although I had a scholarship attending would still mean considerable debt in a field with very little chance of making a living. Also I was going through a lot of personal changes at the time and wanted to quit music and explore other things but the idea of quiting music after I had dedicated my whole life to it up until this point causes extreme anguish.

 

After a brief talk with my doctor she decided it was "depression" and I should try Celexa. Without doing any of my own research I listened to the doctor and took the medication. I took a semester off to decide if grade school is a good idea.

 

Well... it worked! really really well. All my inner struggles went away, I felt cool, calm, and relaxed. My dating life exploded for the first time in my life, I went from being a nervous music student to a confident alpha male almost instantly, now able to go into any bar and approach any woman.

 

I was working two music related jobs having a blast being in the real world after 5 years of post secondary. During my time in music school I was obsessed with practicing and my whole identity was based around music. And now finally I began to think that my self-worth was seperate from music and I should feel good and be confident around people regrardless of my playing. I felt great and didn't stress at all about my playing.

 

When the time came to go to grad school my thinking was "I have the scholarship", "it'll be an adventure", "Who cares if I'm not playing well right now, I feel great"

 

When I got to school I had a great time, met lots of people, did a lot of dating, met a girl got in a relationship, found a part-time job, things seemed to be going great. I felt great. Practiced a bit and doing enough work to maintain a high GPA but I wasn't worried about it.

 

Over the course of the next three years I lowered the dose of Celexa. From 20mgs to 10mgs after the first 8 months. Got the typical brain zaps and started to notice people giving me bad looks during a presentation. At the time a equated this to my depression and them reflecting my internal state back to me (more on this later).

 

A year went by, I was enjoying my time living in another country, going to the gym all the time, hanging with my girlfriend, keeping up with my studys, playing some gigs, and planning move to Nashville (where I had some friends) to become a guitarist. I was feeling so great I decided to lower the dosage from 10mgs to 5mgs.  After this I began began feeling a bit stressed out, my alpha-male confidence began to fade and my girlfriend of now a year and a half began to annoy me. We were fighting all the time I began to think I needed more time to practice and study I started to stress a little bit about my planned move to Nashville. I eventually broke it off to her extreme dismay.

 

After we broke up I attempted to regain my social life and get back to practicing but it wasn't the same, I didn't feel the same level of confidence as before and by now a lot of my friends had graduated and moved away. I also began to notice more and more strange facial expressions from people at the bar or just the occasional funny look from other music students.

 

The next semester my final semester I took on a heavy course load That included my graduate recital. Things were going along great so I just sort of stopped taking the 5mgs of Celexa and about one week later while I was casually walking from the gym when it hit me... "What the **** am I doing".

 

I had been here for 2 and a half years and I had barely done anything. I was telling myself I was going to be a guitarist and move to Nashville even though I hate the guitar, playing music and had done next to nothing to prepare for a move into such a competitive environment. 

 

It also hits me when I checked the "most played" list on my itunes... I don't even like jazz. By this point I have a community college diploma, an undergrad, and now I am going to have a masters in subject.

 

It gets worse... my recital is coming up in a few weeks and I haven't done anything to prepare for it. I'm not even playing that well. As for the facial expressions... I felt so good all the time that it never bothered me when someone gave me a dirty look so my mind never registered them. Some of them now I realize, were from good players/high status people in the program sub-communicating how strange it is for a graduate student that plays so poorly to have such conidence.

 

As for the relationship... I was emotionally apathetic and never felt any proper love or bonding. I regret putting her through such distress. Now that its months later and I'm off the drugs I realize I love and miss her. 

 

What's more... it hit me I had just gone $86,000 into debt to acquire a skill I don't have any interest in or affinity towards. I felt great so why practice hard or plan for your future?

 

After this all hit me over the course of a few days I couldn't sleep became severely depressed, my cognitive abillities fell apart I couldn't read, or study at all. All at once I went from Alpha male with a 300lb deadlift, and more than capable intelligence to a nervous wreck who can't even formulate a sentence. In a panic I went back on 10 mgs of Celexa and that was it.

 

10 psychiatrists later, between 5 clinics and 2 mental hospitals across 2 countries. I am left with $86,000 in debt, no girlfriend, few friends, no hire-able skills, no masters degree, 3 years of my life wasted to Epicurus (no career building, networking, self development) and a bottle of lithium.

 

Had I only listened to my heart...

[Skyler]

Flowstate...

 

Sorry to hear you have hit yet more lumps and bumps.  What a miserable time you have had of it all.   Very dispiriting I'm sure.

 

I merged your post with your intro topic as we can better follow your progress here.  You will also get more responses there as there is more traffic in that section. Please put a link to this topic in your sig line so you can find it more easily when you want to update.  Please see the link in my sig. as an example, and please update your sig line.  

 

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Welcome, flowstate.

 

How long did you take Celexa? How did you go off each of the drugs you've been on? How long has it been since you've taken Celexa or olanzapine?

 

When you first posted here, you were having difficulty going off zopliclone. How did that get sorted out?

[flowstate1310]

Hi! thanks for checking in

 

I was on Celexa for about 2.5 years: 20mgs for 8 months, 10mgs for 1 year, .5mgs for 8 months. Getting off Celexa even after being on only 5mgs was pure hell I couldn't sleep and my mind turned to mush (writing basic emails became extremely challenging). So after a few weeks, seeking some sort of relief I went back up to 10mgs. That made everything worse and I went through another few weeks (It may have been 5 weeks) of sleep 2 hours a night. From there I went to the campus psychiatrist she said she thought I was having a reaction to the Celexa and to stop it Immediately. She also thought it may have been Bipolar Disorder and to take Depakote and seroquel at this point I was beginning to become skeptical of psychopharmacology but I couldn't sleep so I eventually started taking them. This started a whirlwind of drugs and doctors. 

 

I still can't believe how much the SSRI affected my thinking, perception and life. I keep asking myself why anyone would ever give these drugs to anyone. Feeling bad sometimes is necessary part of human existence, think Sartre's forlornness, anguish and despair. Not only will these emotions help steer you from danger ("it's absurd to think a drug is going to cure the bankruptcy" -Dr Gary Kohls)

their part of the fullness of life. I feel like because I didn't really feel bad ever I missed out on a lot of life during these last three years.     

 

I got off the olanzapine alright, that drug turned me into a jerk so I was glad to get off it. I did a fairly fast taper and ended up just not sleeping for a few days and feeling really anxious. Two weeks later I got off zopiclone just by dropping straight from 3.75mgs which also led to about 12 days of very little sleep and anxiety. The anxiousness and "sketchyness" I felt coming off these was brutal I felt like a shell of a man.

 

The doctors are saying this is a bipolar disorder. I wouldn't doubt if it is iatrogenic from the 2.5 years of SSRI I feel like they may have done some brain damage. Do you think this is possible?

 

I'm currently taking lithium 1050mgs

[Altostrata]

It's very common that doctors will diagnose an adverse reaction to an SSRI as bipolar disorder. This is a complete misunderstanding of adverse reactions.

 

It sounds to me like you had Celexa withdrawal syndrome from going off too fast. That is not bipolar disorder.

 

Going on and off all the other drugs further stressed your nervous system.

 

Please add the lithium to your signature. How long have you been taking it? Do you get periodic blood monitoring?

 

The purpose of lithium is to slow you down. This could be contributing to your emotional anesthesia.

[flowstate1310]

I have been on it for 3 months. Blood work done twice. It was slightly below therapeutic at 900mgs. A few weeks ago the PDoc suggested going up to 1050mgs. I went for it because I was extremely anxious and couldn't get present i.e. mind racing. For about a week on set breaks from my gig I could do nothing but pace. (I do trust this PDoc because he openly acknowledges all the negative side affects to APs. He say Lithium is the only Bipolar treatment that is "neuro protective".)

 

As for the lithium slowing me down it definitely worked, I'm currently sleeping around 12 hours per night and napping throughout the day.

 

I'm contemplating going off this stuff soon.

 

I think part of this racing thoughts and brutal anxiety comes from all the stressors that I allowed to build up during my SSRI induced bliss where there were no downsides to anything. Now I feel like I'm in a really bad spot in life.

 

I also didn't mention that between the celexa and olanzapine there was a two month period were I was in the hospital in the states and a hospital in Canada. During that time I saw 10 different Pdocs and was on at one point or another Depakote, lithium, seroquel, risperdal, back to depakote, back to seroquel, then to olanzapine, lithium and zopilcone. 

[Altostrata]

It sounds to me like you have withdrawal syndrome. Going on and off a bunch of drugs might have set you up for prolonged bout of this. It can take many months to settle down.

 

See The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

I don't know about lithium being "neuroprotective." It can do a lot of damage to your kidneys, though. "Therapeutic" levels are not necessary to cause damage.

[flowstate1310]

It's crazy how much damage these drugs cause. I feel like I'm half the person I was before starting them. I can't even fathom how a doctor could justify prescribing an SSRI let alone an AP they clearly do not know the implication of what they are doing. The worst thing is the insidious nature of these drugs they make you feel great so you don't even notice the cost they are having on your life. We really are living out Fahrenheit 451.

 

There needs to be a paradigm shift and this site looks like a huge step in the right direction.

 

I'll keep you posted as I start to get into (out of) the lithium. These long hours of sleeping are killing my productivity.

[Altostrata]

Tips for tapering off lithium

[flowstate1310]

I realized I that although I was stable on 1050 I was having side effects. Really dry skin, really lethargic and slow in general (it was taking me all day to accomplish 4hours of work and I was easily tired while working), poor memory, and just overall feeling strange and stupid. I was at the gym squatting with a plan to just "work up to something heavy" because it was my first time back in a while and I could only get to 115lbs x 5 and this caused brutal cramping in my legs (and not just regular muscle soreness that feels good while working but straight up pain while doing the movement). This was the last straw I decided to start the taper.

 

I lower the does to 900mg and almost immediately felt better and best of all smarter. I had one evening of mild racing thoughts but I had a coffee that day and will just avoid coffee in the future. So far I'm more productive and have more energy. I'm going to drop to 750 this week.

 

Does anyone have any strategies for dividing doses of lithium in capsule form?

[Altostrata]

Please don't rush to go off. See Tips for tapering off lithium

[bubble]

You may also want to read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. It will confirm many conclusions you have already reached and explain why we have come to this situation with psychotropic drugs.

 

I would listen very, very carefully to everything that Alto says.... Thank you for sharing your story and I'm very sorry you had to go through this. But unfortunately things can get worse. so please take the advice here seriously.