simack: Trying to taper off antipsychotic's (saphris/zyprexa).

[simack]

Thanks again fresh, might see if I can source some, my sleep has been ok although I just had a molar extracted and not sure if it's the codeine pain relief knocking me out our not.

[simack]

Just another update, I'm not sure if I've made a bad move or not, but I decided to ct the seroquel over the Xmas break, I've done it successfully before in the past from a much higher dose and didn't think I'd run into much trouble.... So far I'm 10 days off and my main symptoms are, messed up sleeping pattern.. I'm still managing about six hours a night although I'm not drifting off until around three am, my anxiety is a bit higher than it had been, but it's not at extreme levels, and relentless fatigue, which worries me because I'm back to work next week and not sure how I'm going to cope with it.

The main reason I decided to ct was the fatigue/anhedonia was overwhelming me, I figured it was from being on two antipsychotic's and perhaps low dopamine levels from excessive d2 blockage.

I don't know if I should keep pushing through and ride it out or Reinstate, might just wait until the first couple of days of work and see how I manage them.

[AliG]

Simack,

I'm not sure if that makes sense, to C/T  for those reasons. I have the same symptoms, and they are overwhelming , and I have been off all drugs for 19 months !  Were you on 50 mg ? From your Drug history signature, it seems that is what you were on. It was probably not a great time to C/T , particularly if you have to go back to work. Actually, no time is good to C/T.  My thoughts would be to reinstate a little, to help you over the " hump " , and then continue with a slow taper. I think it depends on what amount  you C/T'ed off. Maybe , you can reinstate a little.   If you can update, that would be great , and help everyone to offer advice & find a solution for you. 

I do understand the desire to be free of the drugs. It's totally understandable. You will get there.

Ali

[simack]

Thanks aliG, yeah I was on 50mg of seroquel when I decided to quit, all my symptoms were there previously the've just ramped up a bit, I've got some 25mg tablets on standby to attempt a RI if things get too chaotic. Just thought since I've had no issue in the past with seroquel, somehow it wouldn't be now, I guess when your CNS is destabilized any change can set you off.

[AliG]

Simack ,

As you get lower in dosage , it can become more problematic. Even, a so called " small amount" . However, 50 mg is quite a large dose, so I think you have to be quite careful in your tapering .

Tips for tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine)

Maybe you need to think about reinstating a small amount to re- stabilize . Maybe have a look at this link  :   http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

It can help to explain this. See what you think.

Ali

[Altostrata]

simack, please consider reinstating your 25mg tablets immediately if your withdrawal symptoms get any worse.

 

Going on and off drugs is wearing on the nervous system. Even if you've done it before without any apparent problems, you can't assume you can cold turkey and the same will hold true. We have many people here who made the same assumption and were mistaken.

 

The stress of cold-turkeying Seroquel can also make it more difficult to taper Pristiq and other drugs. If I were you, I would not make any other drug changes until your Seroquel situation is resolved.

[simack]

Thanks Alto, I'm not planning making any more changes for a long while now, thinking of reinstating at 25mg, my social anxiety seems to be getting stronger with each new wave.

[simack]

Ok so I'm one month in from cutting the seroquel cold turkey, and just as everything seemed to be going ok I've been hit with complete insomnia, I can usually manage around four to five hours sleep at the least in the past, but now I'm not even getting an hour, I'm thinking of increasing the olanzapine slightly to see if that helps, otherwise I have sone temazepam to try... Though I don't want to become addicted to that also

[simack]

Well the updose in olanzapine hasn't helped my insomnia one bit, I really have no idea on what to do next. Every time I come close to sleep my body jerks waking me up, Should I try reinstating the seroquel after one month out? The temazepam dose help me sleep but I'm worried about addiction and tolerance to it, so far I've been using it every other night, is this too frequent? how long does it take to become addicted to benzo's?

[Fresh]

From Altostrata:   Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:58 PM

simack, please consider reinstating your 25mg tablets immediately if your withdrawal symptoms get any worse

 

If you're using benzos more than 3 consecutive nights , you risk withdrawal issues.

 

You keep testing your limits Simack , and your way isn't winning.

 

 

[simack]

Yeah I know fresh, I'm sorry I just so desperately want to be free of antipsychotic's, will try reinstating 25 mg tonight. What I don't understand is why I didn't have any major symptom's until one month after the ct.

[Fresh]

That's why they call it "protracted withdrawal" my friend.  It sucks people in to thinking they're safe.  Then BAMMM.

 

Good choice , do let us know how it goes.

 

Happy Australia Day  .

[simack]

Happy Australia day to you also fresh, will post my results tomorrow, hopefully after a good night's sleep

[simack]

Well I managed to get some decent sleep last night, but it was mainly due to using 20mg of temazepam...., i was desperate for sleep, I'm going to refrain from using benzo's again as I've used them twice this week. I'm feeling defeated at having to re-instate seroquel, losing any hope that I'll ever be free from meds

[simack]

Ok so things seem to have settled down a bit for now, I just wanted to ask for some advice on what to do next. I can't handle ANY change to the olanzapine at the moment, the slightest cut and I'm hit with terrible insomnia, should I just hold for a couple of months then try again, or move my focus to the pristiq taper?

[Fresh]

Hi simack ,  the logical thing to do next , to me , is to do nothing. As you say , time to hold for 4 to 6 weeks to recover.

 

I'd be inclined to start chipping away at the pristiq next.   Spend 6 months reducing that , then have another go at the

olanzapine.

 

[simack]

Thanks fresh, think I'm finally beginning to realize the severity of the situation we're all in. As bad as I want off olanzapine, with the memory issues, intense hunger, anhedonia, fatige and lack of motivation, things can and will get a hell of a lot worse by rushing tapering. There are allot of other members on this site suffering much worse than me, if i can avoid getting worse by slowing my taper down then so be it. Even if it takes another three years.. It can be the difference between life and death.

[Fresh]

Where do find the "Like" button ?

 

[simack]

Well things have turned for the worst, the damn insomnia is back and nothing I'm doing seems to help it, the seroquel Reinstate isn't helping, and neither is increasing olanzapine.... Only thing that works is 20mg of temazepam but I'm only using it every second night to try and avoid addiction... Don't know what to do

[Fresh]

Did you increase the olanzapine since Feb. 6 ?   When did you reinstate seroquel , at what dose?

 

Have you changed the seroquel dose since Feb. 6 ?

 

Please update your sig.  No one can comment constructively if we don't know what you've been doing.

 

 

bw ,   

[simack]

Ive titrated up to 3.625 mg of olanzapine from 3.5mg, and holding 25mg of seroquel since reinstating last week, sorry I'll try and update my sig from my phone.

[simack]

Going to try 50mg seroquel and 3.75 olanzapine tonight and pray I can sleep

[simack]

Update, My sleep is back thankfully, and so is the intense fatigue... I had to reinstate seroquel at 50mg and increase olanzapine to 3.75mg, I'm taking two months off tapering to stabilize, then I'm going to focus on the pristiq..I have a meeting with a new psychiatrist Friday but I'm not expecting it to go very well.

[leahy]

Hi Simack,

 

Do you find Ashwaghanda helps you? Do you take melatonin every night? How are you sleeping now?

 

I'm sorry you had to updose Seroquel to get your sleep back. I was hoping you could have dumped it like you did in the past. My pdoc keeps telling me I'm taking too long to taper. She has no idea how sick and literally tired we can get. It's SO frustrating. I need a new pdoc, too. 

 

I take the same supplements as you do. The only thing I can say for sure is melatonin does help me get to sleep. I drink Ashwaghnda tea just in case it's helpful. I can't tell if it helps or not. I'd love to hear your opinion.

 

Leahy

[simack]

Hey leahy,

I'm not sleeping too bad at the moment, I'm managing around 6 to 5 hours of fractured non restorative sleep a night. I take a melatonin tablet every night that is 5mg instant release then 5mg slow release, it seems to be helping a bit. I can't really tell if the ashwagandha helps much though, as I was using it before entering withdrawal, it's not hurting though so I keep taking it.I guess it seems to help me relax a little.

The new psychiatrist was a waste of time, I took in some paperwork of Alto's theory on withdrawal and she just glanced over it and dismissed it altogether, saying that I'm just suffering from depression and not withdrawal

[simack]

Just checking in again, I've been holding my doses for a month now, trying to stabilize, all was going fine until the last couple of nights.. My insomnia is back again and nothing seems to be helping. I took two temazepam which only gave me a measly three hours of sleep, I don't know where to go from here,.

[SkyBlue]

Stabilizing sounds like it would be a good idea right now. It takes time…. so frustrating when we just want to get off the stuff. Hang in there. 

[Altostrata]

What time of day do you take your drugs?

[simack]

Hey Alto and sky-blue, I take my pristiq first thing in the morning , and the seroquel and olanzapine about half an hour before bed.

[simack]

Is it possible that I could be experiencing some form of protracted kindling, due to reinstating seroquel?, it just send strange that it was almost exactly one month from cold turkeying seroquel before I started having side effects, and now it's almost exactly one month since reinstating?

[Fresh]

I don't believe there is such a thing as "protracted Kindling" simack.  They are mutually exclusive - a kindling reaction is an immediate adverse reaction.

 

See the thread on kindling here  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8095-adverse-reactions-kindling/?hl=seroquel#entry27865

[simack]

Ah ok, thanks fresh, wasn't sure I had that right

[simack]

Hey all, just have another question for you all, I've been holding or just over one month now, and am starting to think about tackling my pristiq taper, however, I'm a bit frightened of starting it.

When I was under Yolande Lucire's care, she had compounded pristiq tablets made up for me, all the way down from 100mg to 0, the problem is they reduce at a rate of -5mg per week...I know this is way too rapid to decrease with, especially once I hit the 50mg mark, so I'm sort of stumped on where to go from here.

If I take the dive off the cliff, I'm stuck in a relentlessly linear taper, with no way to back when things go bad.. Could I try the compounded tablets down to say 50mg, then hold and change tactic to say crushing and weighing my doses for the last half?.

[Fresh]

I would ignore the tapering schedule she worked out (I love Yola , but it's too fast).

You can use combinations of 50mg tablets plus 10's , 5's and 2's in capsules to make up your dosage.

So your first drop , say to 90mg , will be one 50mg tab. and 4 x 10mg capsules.

Then to go to 81mg , a 50mg tab. , 3 x 10mg caps and 1 x 1mg cap.  It doesn't matter if the cut is a bit less than

10% , just round it up.

Let Yola know if you want more capsules compounded.  They're still offering the best prices in town.

 

The problem with tapering pristiq is that we can't crush the tablets or make a liquid solution . . . it gets absorbed too

fast.  Even taking fragments and crumbs can lead to "dose dumping"  and "inter-dose withdrawal".

[simack]

Thanks for your time and help fresh, greatly appreciated!!, unfortunately I'm no longer under yola's care due to Medicare technicalities, if I email her and asked, would she still be able to provide scripts for me?

[Fresh]

Ah , you would have to ask her about that.    Is your new doc. on board with the concept of tapering?  There

must be compounding pharmacists in Bendigo.