Colonial: worsening withdrawal symptoms changing from Paxil CR to liquid suspension

[crhawk]

Sorry to hear you're doing so poorly colonial. You know...it always seems to be at its very worst...when you don't think you can do it any longer...when it then starts to get better. You get a window. It can literally be the worst day ever, and wake up and the next day is much better. You'll be there soon, I'm sure.

[crhawk]

You'll be in my prayers

[Ali4]

It will pass, I tell myself that all day long, don't engage, we will get through this TOGETHER, all of us and will be stronger in the end. Ali

[Colonial]

Thanks guys,

 

I'm just banging my head into the wall...

 

It helps a little...

[Colonial]

Worse morning yet,  neck and skin is crawling and on fire.  Can't think, nauseous, weak, flu like symptoms. 

I'm back to tasting and smelling colors and numbers.

The number 8 is purple.  Orange is Male.  Milk and bananas are Male.  Purple is also male but it has a dark brown taste to it.

My arms are shaking and I'm sweating,bad mood swings.

All I did was get my period after 2 weeks of feeling good and now I want to die again, it's that bad again.

My period ended a week ago and I just keep getting worse.

I just want to die.

Maybe I should start throwing stuff out.  

[Ali4]

Sorry your having another bad day, I again am the same, can't think straight, head feels like it's gonna blow up, I actually think it might, I've convinced myself I'm dying, I just at this point want to die too.... hope tommorow is better colonial. Ali

[Ali4]

Funny you should mention your period, mine will arrive shortly, it affects our situation??????? ???????????????????????? now I'm angry. It's a no win.

[SkyBlue]

Hang in there, Colonial.

[Colonial]

I just threw a bunch of stuff out...

 

A few years back when the jackass Police called me up and told me over the phone my sister had killed Herself, I had to go the next day and clear all Her stuff out of Her apartment.  It was very difficult trying to figure out what to do with things.  She had 5 kids under the age of 12.   It was more difficult trying to determine what to do under those circumstances with all that stuff.  

 

Just dumped a bunch of crap in the dumpsters...I wouldn't want anybody to be in that circumstance trying to decide what to do with all this crap. 

 

I actually feel a little better now, not as overwhelmed.  Still shaky and physically bad but not as anxious now.

[Farout]

Reading your recent posts is heartbreaking.

 

Keep putting one foot in front of the other. Do you have an emergency plan to keep yourself safe?

[Colonial]

Hi Farout,

 

I'm not sure what you mean by emergency plan.

 

But thanks for thinking of me.

[SkyBlue]

Colonial, I think farout is asking about the same thing I was asking about a few replies back; what is your plan 

for staying safe ? It would be a good idea to have a plan. Who can you call, etc.?

[Colonial]

I'm still not sure what plan I need. I'm not having  "urges" to do something destructive "against" my better judgement.

I just meant if I finally decide to give up, and that's my decision, I didn't want anyone else to have all this crap to go thru like I did. 

 

Anxiety not as bad today,but now I go from being freezing cold to sweating hot to freezing again in 45 minutes...Not as shaky today but the flu like symptoms are ridiculous.  The light outside hurts my eyes.  

[Farout]

Well, yes, it would be your decision but a decision made during any form of wave would not be from your rational self. There is no "better judgment" in a wave. It would be a catastrophic response to a transient state.

 

This hell you are in will pass, so I urge you to protect yourself while you are enduring it: avoid people having similar thought processes (it is not a good thing to have affirmed even if it feels like only they understand), keep some emergency numbers to hand in case the decision starts to feel more attractive.

 

I have been following your posts. You seem to have hit a really stubborn wave but your recovery hasn't always been like this. You'll get another window and you will be glad you lived through to see it.

[Farout]

Please read this

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7619-for-those-who-are-feeling-desperate-or-suicidal/?fromsearch=1

 

You are not alone. Sending you all my best wishes.

[Fresh]

Hi Colonial , how long has this wave been around for?

 

I'm not able to follow all the numbers in your signature , sorry. Has this wave been triggered by tapering?

[Colonial]

Thank you Farout and Fresh,

 

It started about 2 weeks ago but only got severe last sunday.

 

It was triggered by getting my period at the beginning of the month.

 

This happened the end of September after being good for 2 weeks and all of a sudden I got my period end of September and it all came back.

 

I haven't dropped the Paxil since December but I went cold turkey off the xanax Jan 23 and didn't realize when delayed xanax withdrawal hit In mid feb that that was what it was and not just the continuing Paxil drop.

 

When I restarted the xanax I was much better in 4 days, and I was back to almost completely normal for 16 days the second half of March.  When my period started April 5th I had been having symptoms for 2 days but it got severe around last sunday once my period ended.

 

When this happened in October I think it lasted at least a good 3 weeks.

 

I understand why the period would induce it from the Paxil drop,but considering I went back to TWICE the amount of xanax I had been taking, I don't understand why it happened.  

 

Apparently it has something to do with progesterone being GABA esteric,but I'm back on 2 times the amount than what I had been down to,so I would have thought that would have been enough to hold off any period induced spiral.

[Farout]

Hi Colonial, how are you feeling today?

 

Is it possible that you have increased the Xanax too fast and/or it has gone paradoxical?  I don't know much about it but I've heard it can happen.  Hopefully the mods can give you more clues soon.

[Farout]

PS.  Based on your experience in September, you know that the windows come back.  Keep holding on. x

[Colonial]

Hi Farout,

 

Considering it's the same scenario as september which was a too fast Paxil and Wellbutrin taper, and since the xanax had immediately helped the end of last month, I doubt it the xanax.  Apparently when the progesterone drops it brings back the symptoms of whatever you were having from whatever you were tapering.

 

I just figured that since I was back on twice the amount of xanax as to what I had tapered down to before dropping off that it shouldn't happen, since I'm not still in a taper.  But, I guess your body does what it wants.

 

Anxiety not as bad today, it doesn't start again until close to the next dose, 6 hours, instead of 4 hours.  Still feel shaky "inside", go from hot to cold within 30 minutes.  Sometimes I even can even be both at the same time.  Cortisol effect is back in the mornings past 2 days, I sleep about 4 hours and then I'm wide awake.  But I didn't fall into one of those "sleep paralysis" episodes atleast today.  The light hurts my eyes.

 

I've just had it.  6 months ago it took a month of feeling this bad before I wanted to kill myself, this time it took all of..what..8 days?  

 

Hope your doing well....

[Farout]

Considering it's the same scenario as september which was a too fast Paxil and Wellbutrin taper, and since the xanax had immediately helped the end of last month, I doubt it the xanax.  Apparently when the progesterone drops it brings back the symptoms of whatever you were having from whatever you were tapering.

 

I just figured that since I was back on twice the amount of xanax as to what I had tapered down to before dropping off that it shouldn't happen, since I'm not still in a taper.  But, I guess your body does what it wants.

 

 

Yes, I get the cycle-related waves too.  Sometimes nothing and sometimes they are terrible and last a good couple of weeks.  

 

I'm still concerned that you have adjusted your medication and it hasn't helped.  If anything, you are worse.  It might be nothing but, can you humour me and ask the question in the benzo forum?

 

What safety measures have you put in place while you wait for the next window?  

[Colonial]

When I reinstated, it did help, almost immediately.  

 

I don't know what "going paradoxical" means, but we pretty much figured in the benzo forum it was cycle related:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9660-colonial-regulating-xanax-dose-during-ad-withdrawal/

[Fresh]

Farout , thank you for your concern and input.It would help if you read Colonials thread in the

benzo forum here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9660-colonial-regulating-xanax-dose-during-ad-withdrawal/page-5

 

It sometimes does get confusing when members have essentially 2 current threads.

 

[Farout]

Ok. Good. Thanks.

 

 

The suicidal stuff is another big lie from your withdrawal brain. It is not you.

 

Keep coping. You are doing well so far. I have seen your usual self, over quite some time, in other people's threads - giving them lots of info, encouragement and support. You'll get back there again.

[Farout]

Farout , thank you for your concern and input.It would help if you read Colonials thread in the

benzo forum here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9660-colonial-regulating-xanax-dose-during-ad-withdrawal/page-5

 

It sometimes does get confusing when members have essentially 2 current threads.

 

Thanks Fresh. Sorry, I thought I had looked at all your content but missed it. I'm really glad you are getting support Colonial. x

[Colonial]

After reinstating the xanax, I started to feel somewhat normal around June.  That really had messed up the rest of my taper, and I didn't make any changes until 8/4/16.  I made a small drop in the paxil from 7.2 to 6.8, that hadn't been dropped since december.  Within 4 days I was having the electrical shocks. By day 10 I was having what I call "Paxil headache".  The top of my head feels dumb, but frozen, or cold inside at the same time, yet it comes with a headache.  That lasted for 10 days.  And the zaps lasted for about 4 weeks on and off.  But those were the only 2 symptoms I had immediately from that 5% drop.  At the same time we made a small drop in the Wellbutrin.  I had been on 12.5 mgs for about 10 months and we dropped it to 9mgs.  I don't think that did anything.  And we dropped the xanax by 1/6th of my dose that i had been on for 2 months.  Didn't notice anything from that...

 

So, it seemed the only symptoms were from the paxil drop, and not too bad, but just enough to know that my brain was registering the difference, and that obviously that was the max I want to cut at any time.  So the plan was to wait 2 months and make another paxil and wellbutrin cut.

The first menstrual cycle after the drop was unaffected, but the September cycle was late by 10 days, and OMG, like a few other times, it sent me in another cycle induced spiral staring on day 5, or the end of my period.

 

It stated this past saturday night, the 17th with difficulty thinking, then my sunday morning it was all back: Flu like symptoms, bad anxiety, dark thoughts, dark room (like the lights were only giving half light)  having to nap in the afternoon everyday, bad premonitions, brain zaps, cortisol mornings, insomnia,  I was getting all of the symptoms from going off the xanax completely too, like the muscle twitching, and some of the neurological symptoms from the wellbutrin, like the top half of my body feels like its burning and spinning to the left, while below the waist I feel numb but I'm spinning to the right.  So even though I didn't have the Wellbutrin or Xanax symptoms from the drops, only the Paxil ones, now that I was tail spinning from the hormonal change they all came back.  The worst day was wensday, but I'm still having them all at different times.

 

The only thing I did that kind of destabilized my system was I tried to go off the percocet for 10 days...BAD IDEA... even though the WD symptoms were bad the first 3 days, I started to feel better days 4 though 7, but on day 8 the cortisol mornings and insomnia hit, and by the end of that night my shoulders were on fire and my whole body was tingling.  So, no more fasting from that either in order to reset my system.  But, that was June, 2 months before these cuts, and it didn't set my other symptoms off of put me in a tail spin when I got my Periods after that.  Not until this month after it being late 10 days after the early August cuts....

 

So, I have to decide if it was related to the tiny cuts I made 8/4, or if it would have happened anyway.  I kind of think it was cut related...

Alright the flu symptoms are coming back and the top of my body is spinning to the left and my legs are numb again now, so I'm gonna go back to bed for a bit...

 

So much for tiny cuts of 5% being the way to go...   The whole point was to make cuts tiny enough that it didn't tail spin me when my cycle hit.  But if it's going to spin me anyway, I might as well make a full 10% cut but only half as often, and decrease the number of these tail spins in half.  So I only have one every 4 months rather than one every 2 for the same amount of med drop over all....

 

I suppose it's POSSIBLE that if I hadn't been destabilized recently from the Percocet debacle, this additional stressor may not have spun me, but, I dunno.  That was about 2 months before these cuts..

 

Advice or thoughts appreciated..

[scallywag]

The changes you made in August/September are not tiny dose reductions:

• Paxil 7.2 mg to 6.8 mg - 5.6%
• Wellbutrin 12.5 mg to 9 mg - 28%
• Xanax - 16.7%

If you're going to reduce dosage of 3 medications, a "parallel taper", you probably need to reduce dosage by much smaller percentages than you have recently. Rhiannon, one of the very experienced moderators here at SA, is doing a parallel taper of 4 drugs. Here's a bit of her signature:

 

 

Feb 22 2013:   86 Lamictal    2.05 Celexa       0.23 Xanax      1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.875 Xanax    1.42 Valium  

 

Notice that these decreases, are year-over-year changes. 

2013 to 2014: Lamictal 28%, Celexa 46%, Xanax 41%, Valium 0%

2014 to 2015: Lamictal 19%, Celexa 20%, Xanax 19%, Valium 17%

2015 to 2016: Lamictal 5%, Celexa 14%, Xanax 20%, Valium 5%

 

In that set of changes, the largest year-over-year decrease is with Celexa in 2014 (in green italics). This equal to making 12 monthly 3.2% reductions.

[Colonial]

Hi Scalywag,

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

Normally, when I made a drop too large, I had immediate problems.  These didn't happen until they were set off by the hormonal change amost 7 weeks later.

 

 While I realize the Wellbutrin drop looks large percentage wise, the 12.5 mgs only represents a very small fraction of my original 300 mg dose. So to drop from 12.5 to 9 only represents a 1% drop of my original dose.

 

 I'm thinking if it was anything it was the Paxil-xanax drop.  I was even more tentative with that, instead of dropping the suggested 10% from a dose I had been on for almost 9 months I did only 5%.  I figured dropping a mere 5% every 3 months for a year would have only totaled a 20% drop over 1 year.

 

Perhaps that with the xanax drop, as well as the destabilization from the percocet WD from only 2 months earlier it was just too much.

 

Thanks again! 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Colonial,

 

Tapering percentages here at SA are always based on the previous dose, not the starting dose.

[Henosis]

Liquid was much less effective /consistent than compounded pills I had made..

[Colonial]

Thank you Chessie Cat and Henosis!

 

The issue I am up against too, is that the Wellbutrin has to be compounded, and if I try to tell the doctor we need to drop the Wellbutrin from 12.5 to only 11.5 He's probably going to roll His eyes at me and say;  "Well you were on that dose of Wellbutrin for 9 months, that had to be long enough to drop 3 whole mgs of a med that most people I have taking 450mgs of".  They really don't get it.   They seem to think they can go by how long you were at the previous dose I think.  It aso doesn't hep that the majority of their patients can just change from one med to another no problem.

 

I am happy that I hardly had any symptoms at the time of the original dose change.  That tells me I may not be too far off from the correct & to drop and that I may have just had a period induced tumble anyway.  I know a lot of people have those without a dose change at all.

[scallywag]

A question you could ask your doctor is, "Okay I was on 12.5 mg for 9 months. Your opinion is that a scrip for 11.5 mg is silly (or whatever word s/he uses). Will you give me a scrip for 11.5 mg even though that is your opinion?"

 

You could also ask with curiosity, "I appreciate your concern for my health and I'd like to understand it: What is the harm of making a small dose reduction? What is the harm of taking longer than most people take to come off [drug]?"  In all likelihood, the only harm TO YOU of doing this is to your cash flow. The cost-benefit decision is up to you.

[Colonial]

I agree.

Your absolutely right Scallywag..

Because if we had started making tiny cuts of only 1 mg 5 months ago after being stable on that 12.5 dose for 6 months, and dropped it 1 mg every 2.5 months, we would have been down to around where we are now dose wise, without a 25% drop all at once

 

Although in His defense, and probably under the advice of the pharma company, He was willing to keep me on what was a ridiculously low sounding dose for, looking now at my signature has been 11 months and not 9.

 

He likes the thought of not making too many changes too often considering my history.

 

The point that they had no problem keeping me on that dose for 11 months instead of dropping me 1 mg every 3 months, (Which in reality would have amounted to the same thing) shows He isn't in a rush to get me off.

 

They just don't get that when you DO make a drop, it would have to be lower than 1.2% of your original 300 mg dose...

 

SYMPTOM UPDATE:

 

I have noticed just this morning that I have been much more thirsty this past week, and that was ONLY EVER A WELLBUTRIN SYMPTOM!

BUSTED!

 

So, instead of dropping it again beginning of October I'll let Him know we wil keep it the same for another 2 months at 9mgs.

Probably 3 months really, I don't think making any dose changes beginning of December is a good idea....

I can't be back in bed for Christmas..

Even though this crash took almost 2 months to kick in..

Thats the problem with the Wellbutrin, it messed up my menstrual cycles, which could be why my cycle was 10 days late after this drop and caused such a hormonal breakdown this time..

 

The Wellbutrin is the only med He was responsible for starting me on as well, and considering my neurological past, He admits now that was a bad call, so He aways says "no rush", but, still..

I do notice a bit of..something.. I not sure what...

[Colonial]

Bad nightmares all of January, cortisol affect mornings from mid December till now.  Still able to sleep 7 or 8 hours but the effect is still back, once I awaken with a startle I'm not falling asleep again.

 

Had dropped the Paxil from 6.8 to 6.4 mgs on 11/1 and the Wellbutrin from 9 to 8.5mg on 1/9.  Nothing else to report during that time other than the usual brain zaps within 5 days of a Paxil drop but that cleared up in a few weeks.  

 

 

On 2/8 dropped the Wellbutrin from 8.5 to 8mg, and had dropped the Paxil on 2/5 from the 6.4 to 6 even.  Had a ROOT CANAL... on 2/7..

 

LET THE GAMES BEGIN....

 

Had the root canal 10am Tues the 7th at 10 am,  by 9pm on that Friday the 10th, I was smelling smoke on and off for 13 days.

 

Went on Dr. Google and with 20 minutes of researching "smelling phantom smoke " I was diagnosed with a major brain infection due to botched dental work...  

 

Switched to Dr. Wikipedia and got sinus infection induced by Ebola...

 

The smell started to change on day 9, the 19th,  Started resembling the smell of when someone is cooking a steak but over cooks it just a little, and was now smelling it on the "exhale" and NOT the "inhale" (which makes no sense) and ONLY the left nostril...  

 

Humm...  

 

 Went back to the dentist this past Tuesday the 21st and He didn't think it was related on His end.  

 

Went to the ENT that same afternoon and did the scope thing they didn't see any sinus infection or anything ear nose or throat related.

 

Then on the 22nd, the "smoke smell" started to TASTE LIKE THE NUMBER 11....

 

Now where... Have I seen this... Before...

 

Oh yes!  Autumn of 2015!  Paxil and Wellbutrin withdrawal...

 

Smelling colors and tasting numbers for 3 months...

 

This is the first time it was ever "phantom smoke", and after going back are re looking it can MOST DEFINITELY be NEUROLOGICAL, and it's "technically" a hallucination.  THANK YOU GLAXO SMITH KLINE...

 

Of course, it could also be a brain tumor, but the timing is suspicious.

 

And just now today, my throat is numb when I swallow:  PAXIL SYMPTOM.  I remember that from a few other drops as well...

 

Of course, I did just start my period on Sun 19th, after skipping 2 months, last one was 11/21.  That kicked me back into the brain zaps.  Whether the hormonal flux is responsible for numb throat as well maybe, but I only did just drop the Paxil less than 3 weeks ago.

 

Only smelled smoke once today and not at all yesterday, but now its the numb throat.  I think I had the numb throat 10 days last time the Paxil WD kicked that in.

Period has also re induced the flu like smptoms between 4 and 8pm and some dyslexia.

 

It's been over 2 years since this nightmare began in January 2015.  I will be 48 in less than a month..

 

Praying for early menopause... Skipping 2 months is promising..

 

Although the Wellbutrin did ever mess that up as well..Except I was getting it more often and not less..

[Altostrata]

Very interesting, Colonial. 

 

I'm sorry if we discussed this before -- why don't you hold on the Paxil for a while and just reduce the Wellbutrin?

[Colonial]

I've been trying to find the 'right pattern', so to speak.  I didn't make any changes for 6 months, and then made small drops of all 3 meds at once.  Had a spiral about 7 weeks later when I got my period.  So then I thought trying to stagger them, reducing each only every 2 or 3 months but not each at the same time.  The autumn drop of all 3 meds at once in August in small amounts tripped me up 6 weeks later In September when my period hit.  So we thought to try staggering the drops one med one month, another 6 to 8 weeks later.  The November Paxil drop and January Wellbutrin drop were 2 months apart and small percentage wise.  I was hoping staggering them might be less taxing.  I don't think the most recent Wellbutrin drop played a part, it was just before this escapade began and my Wellbutrin reactions are always weeks out, it's the Paxil ones that are almost immediate.  

 

It may just be that at this point, regardless what I'm dropping, I have to wait longer than 8 weeks before I drop ANYTHING else.  Or I could just be to the point that regardless how long I wait I'm going to have some reaction reducing the last trace amounts of Wellbutrin out of my brain.

 

Waiting to see if I get the Paxil "head freeze headache"  that I sometimes get around 3 weeks after a Paxil drop.   Considering how bad I was from Autumn 2015 through Spring of 2016, this is a breeze, but it's just astonishing that I keep coming up with these bizarre reactions.  and of course, letting others here know "olfactory hallucinations" can happen in their Paxil and or Wellbutrin WD..

 

Of the 2, I am more interested in making Wellbutrin progress.  The insurance company is starting to balk about paying for such trace amounts of it to be compounded, and I had to file a complaint with the State with the State Banking and Insurance examiner when the denied to pay about 2 months ago.  I sent a complaint into the State telling them to bill Glaxo Smith Kline for the compounding costs.

 

So, for now I'm covered until the end of 2017.