PapaBear Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi all, I took Paxil for over 10years after I had a panic attack during an ECG. The first 5 years I took 20mg and then 10mg since without problems. After gaining more than 35lbs and developing pain in my arms and legs I decided to quit. Usually the pain subsided when I reduced the dose or during my phases of withdrawal. Following the advice from my GP but also psychiatrist I always tried to quit very fast which always failed due to severe wd symptoms. My last try was in spring and I tried to reduce from 10 to 5 to 2.5mg to 0mg in about 8 weeks. I had horrible wd problems, from muscle spasms to paresthesias to anxiety and panic. After 2 months I gave up and reinstated to 10mg. Within days I felt back to normal so I reduced again to 5mg. Now I am feeling slightly anxious but my main problem are muscle cramps (mainly in the calves) and a tingling sensation on my skin (arms, legs and face). Could this still be from reinstating and reducing again? I often worry this could be a neurological problem triggered by the wd stress but I am afraid to see a neurologist. Please let me know your thoughts. Many thanks for your help! - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
oskcajga Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi all, I took Paxil for over 10years after I had a panic attack during an ECG. The first 5 years I took 20mg and then 10mg since without problems. After gaining more than 35lbs and developing pain in my arms and legs I decided to quit. Usually the pain subsided when I reduced the dose or during my phases of withdrawal. Following the advice from my GP but also psychiatrist I always tried to quit very fast which always failed due to severe wd symptoms. My last try was in spring and I tried to reduce from 10 to 5 to 2.5mg to 0mg in about 8 weeks. I had horrible wd problems, from muscle spasms to paresthesias to anxiety and panic. After 2 months I gave up and reinstated to 10mg. Within days I felt back to normal so I reduced again to 5mg. Now I am feeling slightly anxious but my main problem are muscle cramps (mainly in the calves) and a tingling sensation on my skin (arms, legs and face). Could this still be from reinstating and reducing again? I often worry this could be a neurological problem triggered by the wd stress but I am afraid to see a neurologist. Please let me know your thoughts. Many thanks for your help! These sorts of symptoms arise when someone attempts to discontinue an SSRI with surprising frequency. Probably best to stay on 5mg for a little while (about 1 month since reinstatement) and then slowly taper 10% each month until you're off the stuff. This is going to be a rough road no matter what, so you're in the right place. Going to a neurologist won't do much - there's no cure for the sensations that you're experiencing. Time will heal them, however. A lot depends on how quickly you taper the medication, and how slow your taper is going to be. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted July 15, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 15, 2015 PapaBear, Osk is right and it is very likely that the sensations you are feeling are attributable to the reduction in your Paxil dose. What you are finding is that at the lower doses it is harder to taper your SSRI because the amount you are reducing as a percentage of where you were is that much greater. If you spends some time on the site and read some of the stories of others you will see that what you describe is all too common in getting off these meds. Having said all that, there are no doctors on this site and if you find yourself getting increasingly concerned about a neurologic disorder, it can provide a great deal of comfort to get a work up and make sure you have a clean bill of health (other than the w/d). Only you can make that decision so go with your instincts on that. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 15, 2015 Administrator Share Posted July 15, 2015 Welcome, PapaBear. How long have you been on 5mg? What is your daily symptom pattern? As you've been on 5mg, has it been getting better, worse, or is it the same? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi, many thanks for all your support so far! I have been on 5mg for approx. 4 weeks now. While reinstating on 10mg everything seemed to be completely fine. The muscle stiffness and tingling sensations only started with the 5mg. I have the impression that it is slightly improving now but for instance today the tingling was back again. It is really creepy... For the muscle issues I am taking some magnesium which seems to help. From a daily perspective, I usually wake up with a strange body feeling and some anxiety. Then I am trying to meditate which helps a bit. Then I go to work by bike which even helps better (30min). Until lunch everything seems to be ok and then the tingling starts. The muscle stiffness is more present in the evenings. - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Frustrated Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I am a Paxil survivor and I do have the leg cramps also. I do believe it is Paxil related. 2002-put on amitryptiline for fibromyalgia. 10mg.2004-stopped abruptly. Didn't think it helped.2006 approx.-put on Paxil for mild anxiety 20 mg.2007 upped to 40 mg. not sure why.2011- tapered from 40 to 10. went nuts and went back to 20mg2014- tapered from 20mg to 0 from April to The end of June.current meds- Metformin(type 2 diabetic) and low dose aspirin.Take multi vitamin and vit b12, vit. D and magnesium. 5 months off Paxil. Still suffering.recently added 1.2mg of Paxil to alleviate withdrawals.(Nov 30)Dropped to .9mg because having symptoms from reinstatement.(dec 23)<p>taper to .76mg-.8mg (Feb 3) approx. weight .010 to about .008-.009 on scale..6mg (march 19th.) .5mg(April 19th).4mg(April 27th).2 (June 27th) 0mg. done taper at beginning of August. Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted July 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi PapaBear-- welcome to the group. I feel your pain, literally. Paxil is famous for causing pain all over the body. One of the side effects of being on paxil can be pain that is very similar to fibromyalgia, which is often misdiagnosed by doctors. I had this for many years and it caused a lot of trouble for me. Once I started to taper off of the paxil the pain started to subside. While tapering the pain was usually in my lower legs and arms and was rather debilitating as I am on my feet all day at work. I really noticed a decrease when I got below 15mg and since I've gotten below 5mg it very rarely show up. What I'm trying to say is that it will go away as you taper further and further. Keeping moving everyday is a real help (I see you bicycle to work, that's good) keep your legs and feet warm at all times and use a hot shower massage on them. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 15, 2015 Administrator Share Posted July 15, 2015 Most likely the tingling is a withdrawal symptom from going from 10mg to 5mg. See Paresthesia: Pins & Needles, Numbness, Tingling, Burning Sensations Would you want to increase slightly to 6mg to see if that would help? You can take part of your dose in liquid form, see Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine) -- it tells you how to make or get a liquid. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thank you again for all your replies. Yes I am thinking about increasing slighlty to 6mg. Maybe I can prepare the exact dose on the weekend and then I hope it will get better. In general if I wouldn't be such a hypochondriac I would simply try to ignore the symptoms. Some are easier to tolerate because I know exactly they come from the SSRI wd (e.g. I had the brain zaps but I found them not really bad after I read about them). For the muscle issues and tingling it is hard for me not to think about any neurodegenerative disease despite reading so many stories from other Paxil users. As irrational thoughts seem to be a part of wd I shouldn't wonder about that probably. I will try the 6mg now and then let you know how it went. Eventually I should say that I am really glad that I have found this community. - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted July 16, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 16, 2015 For the muscle issues and tingling it is hard for me not to think about any neurodegenerative disease despite reading so many stories from other Paxil users. It's really a challenge, PB. I know that from my own experience. The hardest part about it is that most of us (me included) make the mistake of taking our symptoms to "Dr. Google" who then advises us of a "short list" of 20 neurodegenerative diseases that could be at the core of our symptoms, each one more frightening than the next. Distinguishing between "sensations" and "symptoms" is quite a challenge, but my general philosophy of late is that if it annoys me but doesn't impair me I'm going to assume it is part of the w/d process. If it gets to the point where I lose some level of function, it's time to at least rule out neurological causes. By way of example, if my fingers are numb and tingly it irritates the crap out of me. So long as I can button my shirt and tie my shoes, I'm going to assume it's not a major problem. If I get to the point where I can't do the basics, time to get it checked out. Don't know if that helps, but it's my view on dealing with this. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Hi Andy, that is really a good tip. I will try to follow your advise. Sometimes I wonder why some people need horror films or climb on mountains for an adrenaline rush. Taking an SSRI for some time and then withdrawing is doing the same trick ;-) Many thanks, PB - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted July 16, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 16, 2015 LOL, PB. I'm going to try and follow my own tip as well. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Hi, Just one comment for people who have visual problems: Since Paxil I am suffering from visual snow (you will find a wikipedia entry for it) and yesterday it was stronger than ever. Nevertheless I had it checked by a neurologist and eye specialist years ago and he didn't find anything. It is mainly if I am looking in the sky and the sun is shining. Though sometimes disturbing it seems to be completely harmless and I also found other people on pp then who had it. Apparently it varies with my tapering... PB - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Had a good day so far. No tingling, nearly no muscle issues (only some stiffness after sports). Despite the heat I ran 15min and cycled 45min. Currently I am playing Minecraft with my daughter which is fun. I also ordered some Epsom salt and will see if it helps for the cramps. If the next 2 days will be similar I think I will try to stay at 5mg. Wish you all the best out there! PB - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Strange day. I was afraid of jogging the whole time because I thought that my muscles would make problems. When I finally managed to go outside I found myself in the middle of a thunderstorm after 20min. Really scary. Anyway I managed 45min today and so far I am feeling quite good :-) I think I will stick to the 5mg for the next 4 weeks and then start further tapering by 10%. Live long and prosper. PB - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
LoveandLight Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Lol Papabear..would have much preferred watching that horror film or climbing a mountain! 2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare! On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect. Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan. Nightmare that could have been avoided! Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 19, 2015 Administrator Share Posted July 19, 2015 How long have you been taking 5mg, in this last round? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Hi Altostrata, I think for more than 6 weeks. Tingling and muscle issues seem to decrease during the last days. Will update my signature tomorrow. - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 19, 2015 Administrator Share Posted July 19, 2015 Thanks, a signature will help. If I were you, I'd wait until the tingling and muscle issues go away completely for a couple of weeks, at least, before decreasing again, and then decreasing by maybe 5%, just because. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ok thanks, I will follow your advice. - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Hi, by accident I took this morning 3mg instead of 5mg of Paxil before work. 3 hours later I had big problems with numbness and tingling again which resulted in a major panic attac while sitting in a meeting. Can anyone relate to that such a 2mg drop is causing problems so fast? I thought the half-life of Paroxetine would be a little bit longer?! I mean the meeting was boring anyway so my panic added some tension to it :-) In general I am very frustrated that there is nothing at the moment that I can really do than to wait. I am really scared of ad at the moment and I would rather throw them out of the window now than to follow a 1-2years tapering plan. Every morning I look at them and know that they are only doing harm but in order to avoid severe wd I have to continue the medication. I know that you all have the same problem during tapering so I don't want to complain but somehow this is really paradoxic. I just read the article in the UK Times magazine and I really liked it. I hope it will create greater awareness for the problem of ad and wd. - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted July 27, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 27, 2015 Hi, PB. Sorry to hear that you had that kind of relapse after you seemed to be improving with respect to that symptom. My guess is that if your body gets really used to getting the paroxetine in the same amount at the same time each day, especially at a very small amount, that a reduced dosage could cause a hit to the serotonin system and result in an increase in whatever your most irritating symptoms are. At the levels you are working with I'm not sure that the half-life really matters in that regard because your body has reached (or is reaching for) homeostasis with respect to the amount of the drug in vs. the amount of the drug out. When you throw that off, you can have problems related to that. Add to that the fact that I'm sure when you realized what had happened you had an "oh, shi*" moment which ramped up cortisol, decreased breathing to shallow and created the carbon monoxide/oxygen shift that yields numbness and tingling from hyperventilation syndrome that could be a source of the even greater numbness and tingling. I think Alto's advice (as always) is solid and that stabilizing fully is the best way to go. I say this with the personal frustration that goes along with having the EXACT SAME issue you do (sans the reduced dose) which is the numbness and tingling that is the primary offender. I am scheduled for an August 1 10% drop but it's looking more and more like I'm going to have to postpone that. I know where you are coming from because once you decide you want to be done with the SSRI it's hard to take it each morning and not feel like "WTF am I doing to myself?" The logical you (as well as the logical me) knows that the best way off is the slow and steady way off starting from a point of stability and the least symptomology. I appreciate the fact that you are still keeping your sense of humor and making jokes about things. Very critical to recovery from anything. What do you do may I ask that you were in a meeting after 3 hours of work at 6AM in the morning in Alabama, or are you on the road? Hope you feel better soon. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Hi Andy, lol :-) Good question. Actually I am in Europe at the moment, so it is already a little bit later (2.30pm) and I am using my smart phone to type my posts. Many thanks for your comments as they provide the rationality that I am missing in such moments! After reading so many stories about too fast tapering and also from my own experience I am pretty sure that it will pay out to become stable first and to taper only then further down - so I will definitely follow this paradigm though at the same time envisioning again and again the moment the taper is over. Thanx again. Cheers, PB - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 27, 2015 Administrator Share Posted July 27, 2015 Paroxetine has a short half-life. I am not surprised you felt a 40% decrease in your dosage. You might want to take 1mg when you get home. Can you provide a link to the UK Times article? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hi, the article was already linked in the medie section here: http://cepuk.org/2015/07/18/rapid-withdrawal-misprescribing-benzodiazepine-leads-1-35m-settlement-luke-montagu-cep-co-founder/ You can also see it on the times homepage but it is behind a pay-wall. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4497489.ece - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
PapaBear Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hi, I just discovered that breaking a 20mg tablet in 4 pieces is not a good idea if you want to have exactly 5mg. My scale eventually arrived and the crumbs that I weighed related to doses of in between 4 to 6 mg. So no wonder that this caused some problems. I now prepared an exact dose of 4.95mg which is a reduction of 5% and took it this evening. I am curious if there is any effect?! - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
oskcajga Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hi, I just discovered that breaking a 20mg tablet in 4 pieces is not a good idea if you want to have exactly 5mg. My scale eventually arrived and the crumbs that I weighed related to doses of in between 4 to 6 mg. So no wonder that this caused some problems. I now prepared an exact dose of 4.95mg which is a reduction of 5% and took it this evening. I am curious if there is any effect?! Most likely not. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted August 12, 2015 Administrator Share Posted August 12, 2015 You may want to stabilize on your more exact dose before reducing. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 The last days weren't really pleasant. I had a lot of cold sweats during the night and minor headaches and tinnitus during the day. Currently I also have some anxiety after waking up and my body and muscles feel strange. A week ago I fell from my office chair and dropped with my head against the radiator. I had to go to the ER for stitching but besides fixing it up they didn't check anything. So I wonder if my current state could still be related to this accident?! At least I try to avoid putting my feet on the desk at the moment - too dangerous :-) - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted August 21, 2015 Administrator Share Posted August 21, 2015 Where are you with the paroxetine? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hi, I am still at 4.95mg and I plan to stay there until I have stabilized plus a couple of more weeks to give my nervous system a little break. What I noticed is that I got extremely sensitive to wheather changes independent from whether it is from cold to hot or from hot to cold. - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted August 22, 2015 Administrator Share Posted August 22, 2015 Yes, withdrawal can cause problems with the body's temperature regulation. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
PapaBear Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hi everyone, I spent last week in the mountains with my family, doing some hiking and a lot of swimming, sauna and eating :-) and strangely I had nearly no symptoms at all. I could walk for 2-3 hours up the hills but felt only a little bit tired the next morning. Then on the last day the wheather changed from sunny and warm to cold and rain and suddenly all came back with a vengeance. No at home I have extremly tight muscles, especially in my calves and forearms. With regard to my forearms It feels like someone is putting constant pressure on a point there in the upper region close to my elbow. It starts as soon as I leave bed in the morning and remains more or less constant throught the day. While still in bed everything feels normals though. This is now present since last weekend and though I had it before during wd I find it scary. PB - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted September 13, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 13, 2015 Thanks for the update PB, sounds like you had a great time in the mountains with your family. I'm sorry your symptoms returned with a change in the weather. I hope you have another window soon. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
PapaBear Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Hi, Yesterday I spent quite a lot of time cutting pills for my next drop (-5%) using my scale and putting them in small boxes for each day. After finishing I stood up and accidentially hit the table with my leg. As a consequence my whole work fell to the floor and covered it in Paroxetine dust and pieces. Now I have to repeat the stupid procedure again In general I still have muscle problems, especially in my calves and problems with my wrists. Strangely it is worse on the weekend when I haven't used my bicycle to drive to the office. It is really annoying and still makes me worried about my health. It is so hard to understand why withdrawal should lead to muscle tension mainly in my legs? While I can grasp it on an intellectual level (cortisol, serotonin, etc.) my mind has big problems accepting it. In two months we intend to move to another appartment. While my wife and daughters can't stop making plans, thinking about furniture, decoration and inviting friends, I am more worried about my health and its potential implications on the move. I am afraid that somehow my wd symptoms could get worse and I will spoil the party... Maybe I am too pessimistic?! Currently I am doing progressive muscle relaxation once a day and I am trying to meditate twice a day. I also try to loose some weight but despite the low dose of px this still proves to be difficult. I am thinking about having acupuncture for the muscle tension but I am not sure how to explain my problems to a potential therapist. - Paroxetine since more than 10years - 20mg for the first five year, then 10mg since - Several attempts to withdraw cold turkey following doctor's advise - Last attempt in spring 2015 to reduce 10 -> 5 -> 2.5 -> 0mg within 2 months -> Extreme wd problems - Reinstated with 10mg then down to 5mg again 04/01 5mg (tingling and muscle problems) 07/20 5mg (less problems) 08/20 4.95mg (muscle tightness, no more tingling sensations) 12/28 3.27mg (muscle tightness, numb feeling in feet and hands, light tingling sensations Link to comment
Prestorb Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hi PB, I just wanted to suggest that you consider holding at your current dosage until your symptoms mostly disappear. My experience with dropping from 40 mg to zero over a short period and then reinstating at 10 mg was that it took a full six months for my system to recover. I feel very good now, and it have delayed beginning the taper from10 mg until after the new year. Mainly because fall and the holidays are very busy and I want to enjoy them - for a change. Acupuncture may help, it's worth a try and you won't know until you try it. I have considered it myself, but never tried mainly due to my aversion to needles. Another suggestion is that you cut out the supplements to see if you notice an improvement, then add them back one at a time to makes sure they are not exacerbating your symptoms. My experience with supplements is that the WD made me extremely sensitive and I still cannot take them. I will take Emergenceez Vit C packs occasionally for allergies and seem to be okay with it, except i think it affects my sleep. And I seem to be tolerating Loratadine for my allergies right now. Otherwise, no vitamins or supplement for me - they mostly make me very irritable. Your worry about the upcoming move is understandable because we are especially sensitive to change during WD. You are wise to be concerned and try to do what you can to make it easier on yourself. It's difficult to be excited about things like that when you are dealing with WD symptoms and just trying to get through a normal day. Hang in there, take it slow and be kind to yourself! :-) 2005-2009, Lexapro 10 - 20 mg, CT WD w/severe depression and anxiety: 2010-2015, Paxil, 30 - 40 mg, tapered off at 10 mg/week, moderate anxiety and depression: 2010-2015, Clonozapam 0.25 mg, as needed for anxiety and sleep: 1/10/2015, Zoloft 25 mg, tried to increase to 50 and 75, but nausea and dizziness: 2/13/2015, Paxil 5 mg, added back after 2 weeks at zero to reduce WD: 2/28/2015, Paxil 10 mg, increased from 5 mg to reduce WD, HOLDING: 3/04/2015, Zoloft discontinued (reduced to ~12.5 mg on 2/19, ~6.25 mg on 2/26, then zero): 4/26/2015, Paxil starting 10% taper (no scale so was inadvertently at 20% taper, yikes!): 4/30/2015, Paxil 10 mg, reinstated (WD disappeared between August 2015 and May 2016) 5/02/2016, Started 10% taper, reinstated to 10 mg on 5/11/16: 4/29/2017, Last dose of Paxil (working with holistic psychiatrist, lots of supplements to aid WD): Primary symptoms: apathy, demotivation, anhedonia, fatigue, stress intolerance, moderate social anxiety 7/1/2018 Finally feeling like myself again, success!!! Praise God! Even with the stress of relocating recently, I am feeling pretty good most of the time now. Granted, I eat healthy, I exercise, I don't drink caffeine or alcohol and I try hard find a healthy balance of quiet and social times. Hang in there and keep the faith, you can do it too! Link to comment
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