Jump to content
Petunia

What good is all this suffering?

Recommended Posts

Petunia

Apparently, if we can get passed how bad it makes us feel, there is a lot of good which can emerge from a period of feeling awful.

 

Pain and suffering, including that caused by withdrawal from antidepressants and other drugs can be a catalyst for transformation, a gift, which when unwrapped, can contain the seeds of a renewed life.

 

"Are pain and suffering destructive experiences to be avoided, or are they opportunities for people to develop an extraordinary life? The wisdom of spiritual philosophies throughout the ages has converged with modern psychological research to produce an answer: Suffering and sacrifice offer profound gains, advantages, and opportunities to those open to such boons....

 

1. Suffering is Redemptive

Buddhism teaches us that suffering is inevitable but can also be a catalyst for personal and spiritual growth...

 

...Christianity also embraces the redemptive value of suffering....For Christians, Christ's suffering served the purpose of redeeming no less than the entire human race, elevating Jesus into the role of the Western world’s consummate spiritual leader for the past two millennia...

 

...Positive psychology recognizes beneficial effects of suffering through the principles of post traumatic growth, stress-related growth, positive adjustment, positive adaptation, and adversarial growth...

 

2. Suffering Signifies a Necessary “Crossover” Point in Life

Psychologists who study lifespan development have long known that humans traverse through various stages of maturation from birth to death. Each necessary entanglement on the human journey represents painful progress toward becoming fully human, each struggle an opportunity for people to achieve the goal of wholeness...

 

...A recurring theme in world literature is the idea that people must plummet to physical and emotional depths before they can ascend to new heights...

 

In eastern religious traditions, such as Hinduism, [...] karma involves the acceptance of suffering as a just consequence and as an opportunity for spiritual progress.

 

The message is clear: we must die, or some part of us must die, before we can live, or at least move forward. If we resist that dying – and most every one of us does – we resist what is good for us and hence bring about our own suffering. Psychoanalyst Carl Jung observed that “the foundation of all mental illness is the avoidance of true suffering.”

Paradoxically, if we avoid suffering, we avoid growth...

 

3. Suffering Encourages Humility

Spiritual traditions from around the world emphasize that although life can be painful, a higher power is at work using our circumstances to humble us and to shape us into what he, she, or it wants us to be...

 

...Humility is a major step toward “recovery” in twelve-step programs such Alcoholics Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, Gambler’s Anonymous, and Al-Anon... The spiritual principle at work here is the idea that victory is only possible through admitting defeat. Richard Rohr argues that only when people reach the limits of their private resources do they become willing to tap into the “ultimate resource” – God, Allah, the universe, or some power greater than themselves.

 

4. Suffering Stimulates Compassion

Suffering also invokes compassion for those who are hurting. Every major spiritual tradition emphasizes the importance of consolation, relief, and self-sacrificial outreach for the suffering...

 

...Psychologists have found that just getting people to think about the suffering of others activates the vagus nerve, which is associated with compassion...

 

5. Suffering Promotes Social Union and Collective Action

...Freud viewed social relations as the cause of suffering. In contrast, the spiritual view of suffering reflects the opposite position, namely, that suffering is actually the cause of our social relations. Suffering brings people together and is much better than joy at creating bonds among group members...

 

...Psychologist Stanley Schachter told his research participants that they were about to receive painful electric shocks. Before participating in the study, they were asked to choose one of two waiting rooms in which to sit. Participants about to receive shocks were much more likely to choose the waiting room with people in it compared to the empty room. Schachter concluded that misery loves company.

 

Schachter then went a step further and asked a different group of participants, also about to receive the shocks, if they would prefer to wait in a room with other participants who were about to receive shocks, or a room with participants who would not be receiving shocks. Schachter found that participants about to receive shocks much preferred the room with others who were going to share the same fate. His conclusion: misery doesn’t love any kind of company; misery loves miserable company...

 

...Suffering can also mobilize people... In North America, African-Americans were subjugated by European-Americans for centuries, and from this suffering emerged the heroic leadership of Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Jesse Jackson, among others. The suffering of women inspired Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and a host of other heroic activists to promote the women’s suffrage movement...

 

6. Suffering Instills Meaning and Purpose

The sixth and final benefit of suffering resides in the meaning and purpose that suffering imparts to the sufferer. Many spiritual traditions underscore the role of suffering in bestowing a sense of significance and worth to life...In Islam, the faithful are asked to accept suffering as Allah’s will and to submit to it as a test of faith...

 

...For Christians, countless scriptural passages emphasize discernment of God’s will to gain an understanding of suffering or despair. Suffering is endowed with meaning when it is attached to a perception of a divine calling in one’s life or a belief that all events can be used to fulfill God’s greater and mysterious purpose...

 

...Psychiatrist and concentration camp survivor Viktor Frankl suggested that a search for meaning transforms suffering into a positive, life-altering experience: “In some way, suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning...."

 

...The ability to derive meaning from suffering is a hallmark characteristic of heroism in myths and legends. Comparative mythologist Joseph Campbell (1949) discovered that all great hero tales from around the globe share a common structure, which Campbell called the hero monomyth. A key component of the monomyth is the hero’s ability to endure suffering and to triumph over it. Heroes discover, or recover, an important inner quality that plays a pivotal role in producing a personal transformation that enables the hero to rise above the suffering and prevail...

 

Conclusion

For an individual or a group to move forward or progress, something unpleasant must be endured (suffering) or something pleasant must be given up (sacrifice)...

 

...Great heroic leaders understand that suffering redeems, augments, defines, humbles, elevates, mobilizes, and enriches us. These enlightened leaders not only refuse to allow suffering and sacrifice to defeat them; they use suffering and sacrifice as assets to be mined for psychological advantages and inspiration..."

 

Full article here:  Psychology Today - Want To Be A Hero? Embrace Suffering and Sacrifice

 

Also see:  The Descent Experience

 

 

 

 

 

 


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
chicken

Going though all this has really helped me to be more aware of other's suffering. I'm more helpful to people than I used to be.


Prozac 1999-2009 quit semi cold turkey.

 

2012 Placed on Seroquel 25 mg, Tranxene (Clorezepate) 3.75 mg 3x a day, Remeron 30 mg for anxiety/akathesia.

 

Weaned off Seroquel and Tranxene .to Remeron 15 Mg.

In May 2014 tried quitting Remeron at its lowest dose. Had severe withdrawals.Reinstated Remeron at 30 mg by doctor. August 5 2014 entered hospital. Doctor pulled the Remeron and bridged it to Pamelor (Nortriptyline) 40mg and Zyprexa 2.5mg.After removing the Remeron all my bad symptoms went away and I am stable.

 

9/11/14 - 7.5 mg tranxene, 40mg Pamelor, Zyprexa 2.5mg

12/29/14 -  20mg Pamelor, 1/6/15,  7/31/15 3.5mg, 8/10/15 3.2 mg, 9/15/15 2.2mg, 10/15/15 1.8mg

(Feb 2016 - 1.4mg Pamelor only -  OFF OF TRANXENE AND ZYPREXA SINCE DEC 2014 BENZO FREE Since 2014. Nortrityline (Pamelor) .8mg Aug 2016

March 2017 DRUG FREE

Share this post


Link to post
ten0275
petunia, hey.

 

this is a really good article to share. thanks for taking the time to post it. i think suffering has a lot to teach - and bestows many gifts of its own accord. if you tried to tell me this in the acute phase of withdrawal, i would have probably been hurt and confused because there was no seeing any sort of meaning in the kind of pain that zeroed in on me around the clock. in the relatively clearer perspective of post-acute healing, i now realize that pain brought some bows to the good.

 

the most palpable change the pain (and its accompanying terror) brought for me was a much easier approach to the way i view problems, react to stress that emanates from the problems, and face daily situations which pre-withdrawal would have put me uptight or otherwise at disequilibrium. while on psychotropic drugs, i was convinced that i had a panic disorder, was prone to depression, was socially phobic, and had health concerns that were hypochondriatic in scope. as my component pieces of body, mind, and spirit began to reassemble in the aftermath of the harshest phases of my withdrawal, i found that the drugs had in fact caused many of the conditions i had, to that point, considered organic in origination. and many of the problems simply disappeared. but interestingly, some echoes of the problems remained - as a result of conditioning. 

 

for example, i used to have a distinct fear of meetings in the workplace. i couldn't even attend them and if i absolutely had to, i would do so by phone. after withdrawal, i found that i could easily attend meetings. but i would still have a gut reaction that would prompt me to avoid the situation at its outset. it was at this point that i had to manually override these thoughts by saying, "you know, i may not have been able to attend these meetings when i was medicated, but i can now." and as symptoms of anxiety would rise, i'd counter those with "if you survived withdrawal, you will survive anything."

 

i once had someone further along the path tell me precisely that. if you can survive withdrawal, you can damn near survive everything. in my personal experience, this has proved true. the exquisitely painful suffering that is characteristic of psychotropic drug withdrawal puts a lot of the other sufferings of life in a perspective that is, in many ways, invaluable. i had to live it through towards its conclusion to know this as truth though.

 

my suffering, and its residual scars, is actually one of the biggest assets i have carried out of withdrawal with me. it almost seems foolish to say such a thing, but it is true. its dissipation was earned with a whole lot of patience through a whole lot of agony. it's better than a certificate of graduation or a medal of valor really. because it actually pays dividends. i'm vitally more willing to risk for the good, because i've yet to see bad - as bad as it was.

 

thanks,

 

dave


1996 - .5mg Ativan as needed, 7.5mg Remeron daily2008 - .5mg Xanax, Ativan discontinued, Remeron continued2012 - .5mg Xanax, .25mg Ativan 3x daily, Remeron continued2/2012 - Jumped from Remeron, continued .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily4/2012 - Began rapid taper of .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily6/2012 - Jumped from Xanax and Ativan, voluntary hospitalization followed7/2012 - 2nd voluntary hospitalization, reinstated Remeron, bumped to 30mg, also given risperidone.8/2012 - discontinued risperidone, tried gabapentin, dicontinued gabapentin, Remeron 30mg continued10/2012 to current - tapered Remeron 10% every 4 to 6 weeks (sometimes more time) using liquid compound12/2014 - 2mg Remeron 1/16/2015 - 1.9mg Remeron 8/1/2015 -1.6mg Remeron - 03/1/2016 - 1.5mg Remeron - 1/2/2017 1.3mg - 5/7/2017 1.2mg - 5/13/2017 - syringe size change - 6/8/2017 - 1.1mg - 7/10/2017 - 1mg - 9/1/2017 - 0.9mg - 10/22/2017 - 0.8mg - 11/22/2017 - 0.7mg - 2/2/2018 - 0.6mg - 3/13/2018 - new compound pharmacy - 5/20/2018 - 0.5mg - 8/31/2018 - 0.4mg - 11/16/2018 - 0.3mg - 12/24/2018 - 0.2mg - 4/1/2019 - 0.1mg - 5/1/2019 - .05mg - 0mg achieved 2019-06-15. 🤞

Share this post


Link to post
Adagiooo

I guess I'm going to be the Debbie Downer here but there is NOTHING good or redemptive or anything else positive about my suffering. I am speaking only for myself here but I truly do not believe I will ever make it off of these drugs because of severe, terrifying insomnia. My feet are in excruciating pain all day everyday and I can barely walk from my bedroom to the kitchen to get a glass of water because of SEVERE, SEVERE, SEVERE fatigue. My whole body hurts like h#ll and I am merely watching the world pass me by because I am too debilitated to do anything productive. And the trauma of still having to put this poison in my body everyday because if not I would get sicker is damaging me so much psychologically I can barely get out of bed in the morning. Maybe if I were tapering instead of migrating my benzo I would feel differently. But quite frankly, even after I complete the migration I don't feel I can taper. Maybe is has something to do with being on an AP instead of an antidepressant, I don't know.

 

No, this suffering is for nothing more than my foolish decision to take a pill. Nothing good has come of this.


2001-04 Polypharmacy to include Paxil,Celexa, Risperdal, Seroquel, Depakote, Ambien, Geodon, Valium, Ativan, Haldol

03/04-11/04 Abilify

11/04-05/07 CT Abilify Non symptomatic

6/07 took Valium, began to experience altered reality and physical symptoms of withdrawal from Valium.

07/08. Abilify 2 mg, 12/08 Abilify 1 mg, 03/09 Abilify 0 mg, 03/08-06/11Altered reality but fully functional

10/12 hospitalized, Invega Depot, 2 shots discontinued, severe insomnia

6/14-10/14 flexeril, discontinued, developed insomnia; 10/14 10 mg Doxepin I week, no help with insomnia; 10/14 Remeron for two days, paradoxical reaction

Present Risperdal 1mg, clonazepam 2 mg, Restoril 15 mg. Went from .5 to 1 to 1.5 to 2mg of clonazepam in 2014. Also in 2014, tapered from 2 mg risperdal to 1.5 (fairly slowly but still too fast) and had to up dose back to 2 mg. Got liquid risperdal and started from 2 mg again.

Share this post


Link to post
LoveandLight

For me also, cannot see any good in it right now..


2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

Share this post


Link to post
bluebalu86

Me too...


I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering

Share this post


Link to post
ten0275

i don't think it is a trait of a "debbie downer" to not see a constructive outcome of the suffering when you are so squarely in the middle of it. i don't assume many people would be up for a suffering love-fest, a celebration of agony. most of us wouldn't wish the suffering we endure in withdrawal on our worst enemies. in the second sentence of my post above, i said "if you tried to tell me this in the acute phase of withdrawal, i would have probably been hurt and confused because there was no seeing any sort of meaning in the kind of pain that zeroed in on me around the clock." that is 100% certain. it's like someone who survives a plane wreck. do you think that as the plane is plummeting from the sky they are considering the positive reverberations of their possible survival? i'd say not. i'd surmise that their overwhelming drive would be towards the immediate survival itself - how to ensure it. we are hardcoded to survive after all. i think finding meaning in any of the terrors and agonies of withdrawal is predominately situated in the aftermath, when the intensity has died down. in the immediacy of intense symptoms, i found it almost impossible to be philosophical. in fact, for all the mushiness of my brain and thoughts, i don't think i'd ever been more concrete. concrete as in it was all about taking the next breath, the next bite of food, the next sip of water. maybe that isn't being concrete, rather instinctual.

when it was all still intense and fiery, there was nothing even remotely educational or constructive about the suffering. i would have been in complete agreement. and further, i always feared that my suffering would result in some form of ptsd when withdrawal was through. particularly because one of my worst psychological symptoms were repetieve, never-ceasing intrusive thoughts that centered on the premise of harming myself and others. i was happy to find that instead, when my nervous system had cooled and thoughts subsided, there was a lot of love and maybe even constructive vulnerability left in their place.

 

when you reach the conclusion of this process, or are at least in a more foundational spot of healing, the view changes. i didn't think it would, but it does. the perspective shifts. for some people this may be towards the positive, for others maybe towards the negative though i haven't heard that too often. whichever, the suffering of withdrawal invariably leaves its mark as it crests and recedes...

dave


1996 - .5mg Ativan as needed, 7.5mg Remeron daily2008 - .5mg Xanax, Ativan discontinued, Remeron continued2012 - .5mg Xanax, .25mg Ativan 3x daily, Remeron continued2/2012 - Jumped from Remeron, continued .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily4/2012 - Began rapid taper of .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily6/2012 - Jumped from Xanax and Ativan, voluntary hospitalization followed7/2012 - 2nd voluntary hospitalization, reinstated Remeron, bumped to 30mg, also given risperidone.8/2012 - discontinued risperidone, tried gabapentin, dicontinued gabapentin, Remeron 30mg continued10/2012 to current - tapered Remeron 10% every 4 to 6 weeks (sometimes more time) using liquid compound12/2014 - 2mg Remeron 1/16/2015 - 1.9mg Remeron 8/1/2015 -1.6mg Remeron - 03/1/2016 - 1.5mg Remeron - 1/2/2017 1.3mg - 5/7/2017 1.2mg - 5/13/2017 - syringe size change - 6/8/2017 - 1.1mg - 7/10/2017 - 1mg - 9/1/2017 - 0.9mg - 10/22/2017 - 0.8mg - 11/22/2017 - 0.7mg - 2/2/2018 - 0.6mg - 3/13/2018 - new compound pharmacy - 5/20/2018 - 0.5mg - 8/31/2018 - 0.4mg - 11/16/2018 - 0.3mg - 12/24/2018 - 0.2mg - 4/1/2019 - 0.1mg - 5/1/2019 - .05mg - 0mg achieved 2019-06-15. 🤞

Share this post


Link to post
freespirit

I have times of seeing the good that has come of this, but I'm not always there....still, it's my intention to be changed by this experience and I try to remember that part. Sometimes it comes in small moments, where I feel immensely grateful for something that I used to take for granted. Past experiences of suffering have shown me that the deepest realizations often come later on...and it can only come from the inside. Someone suggesting I see the good in something has often as Dave said, left me feeling hurt or confused.


Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a.few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications: Natural Dessicated Thyroid 22.5 mg/day

Current Supplements: Vitamin C, D, K2, B12, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium lotion, oil, or epsom salts bath daily, CBD, and cannabis.What has helped me most: qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Petunia

I'm sorry if the article above has upset anyone, that wasn't my intention. I think what Dave wrote about this perspective being something you can access at a later stage of the process is probably accurate. I'm not quite there yet either but I occasionally get small glimpses of a transformed future when I'm recovered.


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Adagiooo

You are blessed to have those small glimpses Petunia and you have every right to write about your experience. You've been through hell and have obviously become a better person either because of it, in spite of it or both. I wish you wellness and windows, big, bright windows.


2001-04 Polypharmacy to include Paxil,Celexa, Risperdal, Seroquel, Depakote, Ambien, Geodon, Valium, Ativan, Haldol

03/04-11/04 Abilify

11/04-05/07 CT Abilify Non symptomatic

6/07 took Valium, began to experience altered reality and physical symptoms of withdrawal from Valium.

07/08. Abilify 2 mg, 12/08 Abilify 1 mg, 03/09 Abilify 0 mg, 03/08-06/11Altered reality but fully functional

10/12 hospitalized, Invega Depot, 2 shots discontinued, severe insomnia

6/14-10/14 flexeril, discontinued, developed insomnia; 10/14 10 mg Doxepin I week, no help with insomnia; 10/14 Remeron for two days, paradoxical reaction

Present Risperdal 1mg, clonazepam 2 mg, Restoril 15 mg. Went from .5 to 1 to 1.5 to 2mg of clonazepam in 2014. Also in 2014, tapered from 2 mg risperdal to 1.5 (fairly slowly but still too fast) and had to up dose back to 2 mg. Got liquid risperdal and started from 2 mg again.

Share this post


Link to post
Pharmageddon

I'm still terrified and in tons of pain now, so for what it's worth--I'm glad to see people discussing this because one of the lesser-known risks of severe protracted withdrawal is having spontaneous, shocking experiences of joy like nothing you've ever felt in your prior life...that sounds crazy at first but I'm serious... I've been through a lot of suffering with this, plus the death of my family, loss of social life and career etc. It's definitely one of the "horror stories," I had severe suicidal akathisia for months and also have to worry about this syndrome damaging my arteries since I have a decent probability (according to geneticist) of suffering the same fate of my mom who had an agonizing death from a failed surgery on her aortic aneurysm. So my life has been nonstop torture for three years on one level or another.

 

But something has happened in the past year. I have moments, more and more--sometimes lasting for hours or days, where I feel a freedom and joy that is like nothing I ever came close to back when my life was normal and "happy." It's really hard to describe but I'll try...It's like I am set free from all fear except "neuro" fear--free from fear of death and fear of pain. In these moments I have finally become something more than my neurology. Or it's like if this world were a test, or a simulation, that whoever is running it whispers "Congratulations, you figured it out." And then I'll break down and cry like I always did from the withdrawal, it's the same old biochemical convulsion, but this time it's not torture, it's blissful.

 

Last night I had a terrible nightmare, woke up sweating and heart racing. I dreamed I was in a huge operating room, having brain surgery for my "disease." All of a sudden, I overheard the surgeons whispering, laughing at what a dupe I was! "Haha," one said, "she has no idea we're implanting this torture device in her brain!" As soon as I heard them I raced out in terror. I hid in a hospital bathroom, and looked at myself in the mirror. Suddenly the dream changed: they hadn't just implanted a torture device, they had changed my whole body, into this horrible, disfigured wreck of a person, wearing punk clothes and a mohawk! "I" slipped out of my body and watched as this disfigured person took out a gun, shocked at her revolting new body, and shot herself. But right as I woke up, I thought "I really admire that disfigured punk!"

 

The dream terrified me until later today, when I started to think it was a metaphor. If the physical me had only seen what the "spiritual" me had seen, I wouldn't have shot myself, I would have been proud to try out the new life. I started thinking about my father, who died at 40. He got Hep C in his early 30s, then liver failure (which also causes brain problems from toxin accumulation), then heart failure but he refused to see a doctor, instead he kept living the way he always did and going for a daily jog. He dropped dead of a heart attack right there in the middle of his jog, and to the very end he held on to his sense of meaning and his mission in life--to teach others that kindness is all that matters. Before I thought his life was a waste but now I see him as a role model. When I had akathisia today I went outside and started dancing and thought "I want to be just like my dad, whenever I die, I want to die dancing."

 

Sorry if I'm rambling and I KNOW this sounds like minimizing the agony of this antidepressant suffering and no one should ever have to go through this, but for those who have lost hope, I hope it might help to know that there are some wonderful experiences that can ONLY happen after intense and long-term suffering--in my case AD/polydrug damage. 


Current Daily Meds: 1.25 mg Klonopin, thyroid, growth hormone, 5 mg Lexapro, 7.5 mg oxycodone, supplements. 

Dec.2014-present PRN/OTC Meds: as of 8/14/15 NONE!!!  :) I had been on DOZENS of these up until recently to cope with wd effects.

Very complicated polypharmacy history, but one simple pattern: every time I have stopped Lexapro (3 times total):

1 week post-WD Feeling great.

1.5 months post-WD horrible depression and physical symptoms (5/2006, 8/2012, 7/2015)

2.5 months post W/D progression to an intolerable syndrome with dysautonomia, severe insomnia and akathisia, resistance/tolerance to sedatives, sensitivity to WD of anything, extreme "alerting" syndrome. (9/2012-12/2012, 8/2015)...now stabilized  :) beginning oxycodone wean.

2012 W/D: Fast taper, reinstated at onset of severe akathisia 2.5 months post-WD, akathisia resolved in 3 months, residual disability continued until I started Xyrem and Klonopin. Stopped Xyrem 10/2014.

Current W/D:  5/18/2015 finished 18 month Lexapro taper. Reinstated due to severe symptoms.

Benzo WD Problems: No stopping a benzo except when I was off of Lexapro or tapering it--severe issues Dec-Jan 2014/2015 from quitting Klonopin quickly while tapering Lexapro (3 mg lexapro at the time). Started @ 2mg Klonopin, reinstated successfully @ 1 mg, tapered to 0.75 mg by Apr. 2012, held dosage.

 

Share this post


Link to post
LoveandLight

That's amazing. Thanks very much for sharing :)


2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

Share this post


Link to post
freespirit

Yes, thanks for sharing...beautiful.


Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a.few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications: Natural Dessicated Thyroid 22.5 mg/day

Current Supplements: Vitamin C, D, K2, B12, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium lotion, oil, or epsom salts bath daily, CBD, and cannabis.What has helped me most: qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Pharmageddon

You're welcome...thanks for listening :)


Current Daily Meds: 1.25 mg Klonopin, thyroid, growth hormone, 5 mg Lexapro, 7.5 mg oxycodone, supplements. 

Dec.2014-present PRN/OTC Meds: as of 8/14/15 NONE!!!  :) I had been on DOZENS of these up until recently to cope with wd effects.

Very complicated polypharmacy history, but one simple pattern: every time I have stopped Lexapro (3 times total):

1 week post-WD Feeling great.

1.5 months post-WD horrible depression and physical symptoms (5/2006, 8/2012, 7/2015)

2.5 months post W/D progression to an intolerable syndrome with dysautonomia, severe insomnia and akathisia, resistance/tolerance to sedatives, sensitivity to WD of anything, extreme "alerting" syndrome. (9/2012-12/2012, 8/2015)...now stabilized  :) beginning oxycodone wean.

2012 W/D: Fast taper, reinstated at onset of severe akathisia 2.5 months post-WD, akathisia resolved in 3 months, residual disability continued until I started Xyrem and Klonopin. Stopped Xyrem 10/2014.

Current W/D:  5/18/2015 finished 18 month Lexapro taper. Reinstated due to severe symptoms.

Benzo WD Problems: No stopping a benzo except when I was off of Lexapro or tapering it--severe issues Dec-Jan 2014/2015 from quitting Klonopin quickly while tapering Lexapro (3 mg lexapro at the time). Started @ 2mg Klonopin, reinstated successfully @ 1 mg, tapered to 0.75 mg by Apr. 2012, held dosage.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Mort81

very good article.  I totally am a believer that once we get to a point of happiness or we break free from the constraints of Withdrawal that Life can be much more enjoyable than it ever had been before. We will experience life at a higher level than almost anybody. Its so tough while you in the middle of WD to see that . I think its tough right now for alot of us cause we cant picture feeling healthy again because  our current reality has been so grimm.  One thing I can try and hold onto is how good its gonna feel to be healthy again. Im holding a lottery ticket just waiting to cash it in.


Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

Share this post


Link to post
KarenB

I like this Petunia.  None of us would choose this situation, but since I find myself here I like being able to see the good things that come out of it. 


2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

Share this post


Link to post
manymoretodays

Me too as I humbly await this extraordinary life.  I guess it already is.  In some moments.

 

I like the reference to dancing too.  Ear buds and any kind of movement today feels good.

 

Winning lottery ticket of a different kind is good too.  I have one too!


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

Share this post


Link to post
Mort81

Ya waiting to cash it in ! its going to be glorious  :D


Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

Share this post


Link to post
Rachelina

I believe my suffering is not mine alone, but a piece of the world's suffering that I have been given to carry and to heal. I believe in interbeing (Thich Nhat Hanh's term for the Buddhist belief that we are all part of each other), so healing myself is healing the world as well. The world is in crisis and pain right now, and our individual sufferings are pieces of that. And our individual healings are actually the world healing itself.


Trying to get off Paxil since 2007. Was tapering by 0.1 mg every 4-5 weeks. Had awful crash in November 2015 at .5 mg; updosed gradually to 2 mg. 

 

Doing better and tapering again, much slower this time.  2016: Dropped from 2 mg to 1.62 mg.  2017:  1.62 mg to 1.2 mg. 2018: 1.2 mg to .76 mg. 2019: .76 mg to .56 mg. CURRENT DOSE: 9/21/20 .39 mg 

 

Started Klonopin in November 2015 to deal with crash. 1/10/16 started milk titration taper from .5 mg. Finished taper 12/6/17. Still take Klonopin for agoraphobia 2 - 3 times a week. 

Share this post


Link to post
manymoretodays

That's cool Rachelina.

 

I am thinking humility at the moment.  And I hope I remember this someday.  Mainly to comfort another..........let some else know what I survived and that they can too.


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

Share this post


Link to post
PatriciaVP

My two closest friends and I have been getting together via Skype every week to encourage one another and study a book we have all been reading about the purpose and value of trials in our lives.

 

10 years ago one of those dear friends fell and exacerbated an existing back problem she had since middle school. Ever since then she has been all but bedridden -forced to take strong pain relievers that strip her daily of energy and joy. It was around that time that I started down this road of every increasing mind numbing meds for an issue that now seems so minor.

 

When we were talking the other day and sharing our frustrations with the place where life had dumped us - bereft of energy, drive and many of the goals we had hoped to achieve by this time in our lives, I realized something. Neither of the people we were 10 years ago would have any clue how to sympathize with the people we are today. So perhaps at least one of the reasons we are enduring the this suffering is so we could each be the person the other needed.


PatriciaVP@AbleWriterSays My Intro

 

Zoloft 150-200 mg- on and off between 1998 and 2004.

 

Lexapro 40 mg - 2004-2013 30 mg 2013 - August 2015 20 mg August 2015- September 2015 15 mg September 2015 - October 2015 10 mg October 2015 -Nov. 1 2015. Nov. 2015 increased dose to 12.5 mg to stabilize. Dec. 28 2015 11.25 mg March 29, 2016 10 mg. August 1, 2016 9 mg. October 23, 2016 8.1 mg. Nov. 29, 2016 7.5 mg. Feb. 25, 2017 7 mg. April 9, 2017 6.5 mg. June 2017 6 mg. Aug. 2018 5.75 mg March 2019 5.5 mg Apr. 2019 5.25 mg. June 2019 5 mg Sept. 2019 4.75 mg Nov. 2019 4.5 mg Dec. 2019  4.25 April 7 2020 4mg 

 

Depakote 1000 mg 2008-2013  750 2013-Dec 2015 500 mg Dec 2015 to Feb 2, 2016. Sopped completely Feb 2 2016.

 

Adderall 40mg 2004-Feb 29, 2016. Feb 29,2016 - reduced Adderall to 20 mg based on pdoc's recommendations. March 29, 2016 - Reduced Adderall to 15 mg. April 30 reduced Adderall to 10 mgs. May 28, 2016 reduced Adderall to 5 mgs.June 8, 2016 stopped taking Adderall due to extreme agitation.

 

Amphetamine 20mg 2008 - 1/16. 1/16 - Stopped Amphetamine completely because pdoc did not renew script.

WWW.PSYCHFREE.NET 

Share this post


Link to post
Vonnegutjunky

If you are currently suffering you can't see the way it changes you - you have to decide once you are "out of the woods" what to do with this experience that has shaken you to the core - it can have meaning or it can leave you bitter - you have to decide - when you are suffering you are not rational - it's only until the acute pain has passed that you will be able to make something from this -

 

I always thought addressing my sexual abuse would leave me deep in a cavern that I would never be able to get out of - now I realize, I can face anything - I don't have to be broken by my past, and akathisia taught me I can be stronger than any depression or anxiety that my past has tried to dump on me - it taught me that I have patience and I can grit my teeth and wait things out- it taught me that quick fixes can make things worse - it taught me that bad feelings pass on their own- it made me appreciate life and living - it taught me that others who want to commit suicide experience internal horror that you won't ever be able to understand until you experience it - something I used to balk at -

 

You cannot see or feel any of these things in wd - but don't let your wd be in vain- let it teach you something good


 

*Currently at 3.3mg off my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) so I’m around 7.4 mg 

*No other supplements or vitamins 

*Taper schedule in the pdf 

Blank.pdf

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564

Share this post


Link to post
MaryDavid

If you are currently suffering you can't see the way it changes you - you have to decide once you are "out of the woods" what to do with this experience that has shaken you to the core - it can have meaning or it can leave you bitter - you have to decide - when you are suffering you are not rational - it's only until the acute pain has passed that you will be able to make something from this -

 

I always thought addressing my sexual abuse would leave me deep in a cavern that I would never be able to get out of - now I realize, I can face anything - I don't have to be broken by my past, and akathisia taught me I can be stronger than any depression or anxiety that my past has tried to dump on me - it taught me that I have patience and I can grit my teeth and wait things out- it taught me that quick fixes can make things worse - it taught me that bad feelings pass on their own- it made me appreciate life and living - it taught me that others who want to commit suicide experience internal horror that you won't ever be able to understand until you experience it - something I used to balk at -

 

You cannot see or feel any of these things in wd - but don't let your wd be in vain- let it teach you something good

That it is really true and well expressed. Thank you.  Would like to know what helped you therapy wise?


In 2001 - started on Carbamezapine (can't remember dose), Fluoexitine 20mg, Clanozepam (low dose) after a nervous breakdown.

In 2004 - abruptly stopped carbamezapine after falling pregnant.  

In 2009 - changed from Fluoexitine to Citalopram 20mg.

In 2014 - tappered off clanozepam.

In Aug 2015 - cold turkey off Citalopram :o

From Aug - Dec 2015 I had mostly flu-like symptoms and trouble sleeping. From Jan - April 2016 Emotional nightmare ensued, paranoia, excessive anxiety and tormenting thoughts, basically trying to manage these emotions and thoughts which are exhausting.  Lots of intense emotions followed by tears, at times howling when Im alone.In March 2016 I tried Choline & Inisitol, Vit B Complex, Using Aromatherapy, like Lavendar, Clary Sage and others.

In April STOPPED Choline & Inositol as I beleive it was giving me shakes and making me more anxious.  It also made me feel like i'd taken a benzo tablet making me feel sedated.  Reading - The Body Keeps Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk (recommended by a member on this group).

Symptoms - extreme low self esteem and insecurity, intense emotions and tearfulness. This is so so hard.  But im going to keep pushing.  Feel bad for my 2 girls and husband.  I don't want to be seen in this way, especially by the girls. Self-help : praying, meditating, breathing exercises and physical exercises.

Ceterizine (antihistamine) - I've been taking this for many years now for itchiness in my palms and feet.  I take them as and when I need them. JULY 2016 Dr Bach homeopathic remedies and 'rescue remedy'

Share this post


Link to post
Vonnegutjunky

Thank you Mary - my therapist uses commitment and acceptance therapy - he forces me to focus on being alive and I am to address sincere gratitude for something each day- he says that since I have gratitude for anything and can enjoy any aspect of life this is proof that I am strong enough to endure - he taught me that we don't have to be affected our whole lives by our past and we can choose to be a suvivor a warrior instead of a victim - but it takes practice


 

*Currently at 3.3mg off my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) so I’m around 7.4 mg 

*No other supplements or vitamins 

*Taper schedule in the pdf 

Blank.pdf

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564

Share this post


Link to post
MaryDavid

Thanks Vonne, im interested to know what is working for other people as i know that some therapies suit other people better than others.  I will start making a habit of being grateful too!


In 2001 - started on Carbamezapine (can't remember dose), Fluoexitine 20mg, Clanozepam (low dose) after a nervous breakdown.

In 2004 - abruptly stopped carbamezapine after falling pregnant.  

In 2009 - changed from Fluoexitine to Citalopram 20mg.

In 2014 - tappered off clanozepam.

In Aug 2015 - cold turkey off Citalopram :o

From Aug - Dec 2015 I had mostly flu-like symptoms and trouble sleeping. From Jan - April 2016 Emotional nightmare ensued, paranoia, excessive anxiety and tormenting thoughts, basically trying to manage these emotions and thoughts which are exhausting.  Lots of intense emotions followed by tears, at times howling when Im alone.In March 2016 I tried Choline & Inisitol, Vit B Complex, Using Aromatherapy, like Lavendar, Clary Sage and others.

In April STOPPED Choline & Inositol as I beleive it was giving me shakes and making me more anxious.  It also made me feel like i'd taken a benzo tablet making me feel sedated.  Reading - The Body Keeps Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk (recommended by a member on this group).

Symptoms - extreme low self esteem and insecurity, intense emotions and tearfulness. This is so so hard.  But im going to keep pushing.  Feel bad for my 2 girls and husband.  I don't want to be seen in this way, especially by the girls. Self-help : praying, meditating, breathing exercises and physical exercises.

Ceterizine (antihistamine) - I've been taking this for many years now for itchiness in my palms and feet.  I take them as and when I need them. JULY 2016 Dr Bach homeopathic remedies and 'rescue remedy'

Share this post


Link to post
NaturalBorn

i cannot see anything good at all about this situation 2012, 2013, 2014 were the best years of my life, 2015 was also a pretty good year, but that was the year that i started and quitted effexor, in october of 2015, it has been a year from now. everything started going downhill from there , my life is pretty much the most pathetic and miserable thing i could possible imagine. .

I AM the most miserable person i ever met, i lost my health, mental health, libido, cognition, lifestyle, joy in life, skills, trust from other people, etc. At the age 20!

 

doctors don't believe you, your family doesn't believe you, your friends think you are going insane, this is literally a living nightmare...

it's funny to think that in some terms heroin and crack woulddn't have messed me up this bad, not even close. this was caused by a "doctor". this is just beyond wrong...

 

how the hell am i supposed to start college like that? or start a family? or even leave my parents house?  i don't see anything positive coming out from this


(i'm brazlian so please, ignore spelling mistakes) 2015 the beggining of the year started with effexor xr 37,5

went up to 300mgs

in october of 2015 quitted COLD TURKEY/took olanzapine 5mgs for 2 weeks around november/ reinstated effexor in january of 2016

in march of 2016 was at 300mg again

in may tappered effexor xr and added trazodone 150mgs, seroquel 50mgs and abilify 10 mgs/in july cold turkey from abilify (no big deal)

in september tried reducing trazadone to 50mg

after 2 weeks went back to 150mgs of trazadone and 50 mgs of seroquel and added 2 mgs of klonopin to use WHEN NEEDEED

currently taking 150mgs of trazadone and 50 mgs of seroquel at night

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jayjohnny

i cannot see anything good at all about this situation 2012, 2013, 2014 were the best years of my life, 2015 was also a pretty good year, but that was the year that i started and quitted effexor, in october of 2015, it has been a year from now. everything started going downhill from there , my life is pretty much the most pathetic and miserable thing i could possible imagine. .

I AM the most miserable person i ever met, i lost my health, mental health, libido, cognition, lifestyle, joy in life, skills, trust from other people, etc. At the age 20!

 

doctors don't believe you, your family doesn't believe you, your friends think you are going insane, this is literally a living nightmare...

it's funny to think that in some terms heroin and crack woulddn't have messed me up this bad, not even close. this was caused by a "doctor". this is just beyond wrong...

 

how the hell am i supposed to start college like that? or start a family? or even leave my parents house? i don't see anything positive coming out from this

 

Well just be thankful that you're still only 20 for starters. A young brain can heal much faster than an older one. Your healing will, more than likely, be faster than someone in their 40s for example. You may still have a long road ahead but consider all that you have already learned from your traumatic experiences! With these drugs being handed out to people of all ages like candy , you can bet yourself you won't be the last to experience what you're going through!!

 

And more importantly, once you fully heal, you will begin to feel like a new person. I almost assure you of that. And more than likely you'll still be in your early to mid 20s. Still have plenty of time to try and get your life back on track after all the trauma to your brain and nervous system !!


2005: Began switching from one ssri to the next. Very little tapering time was instructed by my psychiatrist. Tried just about every drug on the market. Some two or three times. Nothing reallly helped my moderate depression and anxiety. They only made things worse most of the time!!

2014: Began experiencing severe symptoms while still taking Zoloft, oddly enough. Was forced to quit drugs altogether.

2017: A new year begins having experienced substantial improvement. Still not sure if my symptoms were severe protracted withdrawal or a severe reaction to a med, or possibly a combination of each.

Share this post


Link to post
FarmGirlWorks
On 2/3/2016 at 5:16 AM, Rachelina said:

I believe my suffering is not mine alone, but a piece of the world's suffering that I have been given to carry and to heal. I believe in interbeing (Thich Nhat Hanh's term for the Buddhist belief that we are all part of each other), so healing myself is healing the world as well. The world is in crisis and pain right now, and our individual sufferings are pieces of that. And our individual healings are actually the world healing itself.

Love, love, love this...


  • Prozac | late 2004-mid-2005 | CT WD in a couple months, mostly emotional
  • Sertraline 50-100mg | 11/2011-3/2014, 10/2014-3/2017
  • Sertraline fast taper March 2017, 4 weeks, OFF sertraline April 1, 2017
  • Quit alcohol May 20, 2017, quit coffee October 2017, quit cannabis 😩 July 2018
  • Magnesium powder, fish oil, estradiol, kombucha, gluten/dairy/histamine-lite
  • Lifestyle changes: AA, kundalini practice

 

"If you've seen a monster, even if it's horrible, that's evidence of divinity." – Damien Echols

 

Share this post


Link to post
xyz

 

"I believe my suffering is not mine alone, but a piece of the world's suffering that I have been given to carry and to heal. I believe in interbeing (Thich Nhat Hanh's term for the Buddhist belief that we are all part of each other), so healing myself is healing the world as well. The world is in crisis and pain right now, and our individual sufferings are pieces of that. And our individual healings are actually the world healing itself."

 

 

amen to that Rachelina

 

 

i think our goal in life is to understand compassion through our own suffering.

 


june 2014 to feb  2015- on xanax 0.25 to 1mg/day- then CT - jan 2016 - panic attack, went on 3.75mg remeron to sleep march 2016- CT remeron (because it caused me tinnitus)- deep depression, couldn't sleep because of  intrusive Tinnitus

april to june 2016- valium 4mg, xanax as needed, lunesta 3mg

june 2016 - valium 4mg, lexapro 10mg

oct 2016- valium 2mg, lexapro 10mg- hold

march 2017- started daily micro liquid taper of valium and lex- -taper speed 0.0033mg valium daily and 0.033mg lex daily

may 2018- valium 1mg, lexapro 2.4mg - i had to slow down the rate of my daily micro taper considerably

LAST dose of Lexapro: 0.05mg on 05/17/19

LAST dose of valium: 0.04mg on 08/18/19

April 26th 2020- intense panic attack that lasted 4 days, akatisia, 0 sleep- suicidal, almost hospitalized- took rescue doses over 2 days- total: 1.5mg xanax, 18mg valium, 2x5mg lexapro

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
NobodySpecial

My teacher used to say that the more intimate we are with our pain, the less personal and more universal it becomes.

 

Pain and in turn, compassion, are truly the great roads!


Taper commencing 14/06/18:

  • Going down by 2.5mg per month from 35mg - once 2.5mg is bigger than the recommended 10%, I'll switch to a water solution. 
  • Planning to taper until October and then hold until 2019 - balancing study, work, life and holiday season.

 

Medication / withdrawal history:

  • Tapered July 2016 to October 2016, unsuccessful and reinstated to 30mg (didn't track specifics)
  • Tapered March 2017 to August 2017, was unsuccessful and reinstated to 35mg (didn't track specifics).
  • Current taper - started 1st January 2018 @ 32.5mg and 2.5mg per month until I reach a dose where 2.5 is > 10% of dose.

 

Morning supplements:

B complex, Niagen, COQ10, Black seed oil, Vitamin C, Zinc, Fish Oil, EGCG, Bosweilla Extract, Curcumin (Longvida), Vitamin D, R-ALA, NAC, Ashwagandha (occasionally), Epimedium / Icariin, Resveratol.

 

Evening supplements:

NatureCalm Magnesium, Glycine, Ashwagandha, Reishi, Schisandra, Melatonin.

I also take Phenibut (maximum 3 times weekly at a dose that doesn't build tolerance) and Oleamide when required.

Share this post


Link to post
Justcope
On 8/5/2015 at 10:37 AM, Petunia said:

I'm sorry if the article above has upset anyone, that wasn't my intention. I think what Dave wrote about this perspective being something you can access at a later stage of the process is probably accurate. I'm not quite there yet either but I occasionally get small glimpses of a transformed future when I'm recovered.

Exactly what I was thinking. Even in a wave, I get a small feeling every now and then, that if I manage to get off the AD, I think.. or hope, that I may have some more resilience afterwards. That if anxiety comes up here and there, which I realise I do have to live with and be ok with, ill remember that during this period (now) it was so awful, and I we get through this and have a great big window at the end of it, then it’ll have been worth the pain. 

I think if we can get to the other side- being off the drug, and mostly being stable and ok, then that’s the biggest win.


Hi! I’m JustCope. 

 Currently tapering off 20mg lexapro. I’m about 10 weeks in and at 5mg- kinda fast I realise- stupidly listened to a GP who spoke to me for 5 mins about stopping lexapro. 🤕

Share this post


Link to post
NobodySpecial

Here's some 'proof' that you'll be way more resilient after working through these issues - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4185140/


Taper commencing 14/06/18:

  • Going down by 2.5mg per month from 35mg - once 2.5mg is bigger than the recommended 10%, I'll switch to a water solution. 
  • Planning to taper until October and then hold until 2019 - balancing study, work, life and holiday season.

 

Medication / withdrawal history:

  • Tapered July 2016 to October 2016, unsuccessful and reinstated to 30mg (didn't track specifics)
  • Tapered March 2017 to August 2017, was unsuccessful and reinstated to 35mg (didn't track specifics).
  • Current taper - started 1st January 2018 @ 32.5mg and 2.5mg per month until I reach a dose where 2.5 is > 10% of dose.

 

Morning supplements:

B complex, Niagen, COQ10, Black seed oil, Vitamin C, Zinc, Fish Oil, EGCG, Bosweilla Extract, Curcumin (Longvida), Vitamin D, R-ALA, NAC, Ashwagandha (occasionally), Epimedium / Icariin, Resveratol.

 

Evening supplements:

NatureCalm Magnesium, Glycine, Ashwagandha, Reishi, Schisandra, Melatonin.

I also take Phenibut (maximum 3 times weekly at a dose that doesn't build tolerance) and Oleamide when required.

Share this post


Link to post
Gerg

Petunia. You started this topic

I would like to add these if I may. I think the most important fact and I mean "fact" is that suffering is not natural to our existence for if it were 1. We would look forward to it. 2. What person in good health would choose a date so as to commence suffering.

3. Would you hit your thumb with a hammer just to find out what its feels like to have a good thumb. 4. When was the last time you put your hand on a red hot plate so you could feel better later in the day. 5. Do you mark on the calendar the happy day when you stubbed your toe and ripped it open. 6. What about that migraine that stopped too early while you were sleeping and now left you with no pain. Suffering is not natural to our needs, growth education or of any advantage unless you think that we need suffering to appreciate the good. This can give you solace when you are copping with withdrawal but in general terms it is a scape goat out of what is real. There is no advantage in suffering in any way unless you are coming out of it and have leant something of advantage that you can use as a means of showing empathy toward others, helps you to cope better or that suffering may have taught you an important life lesson. But to say that suffering is (a part of life that is essential for living) has no reliable basis. Make no mistake Suffering is bad it is hurt one way or another, Self hurt or damage caused by outside influences. It  is contrary to nature, (not natural) to our human welfare or well-being. You do not need to hit your thumb or put yourself down to feel good, for in the end suffering is a negative not positive experience.

This is where the Prince that eventually became the Buddha got it wrong. The answer he felt he got exempted him from proactive responsibility, (he said he received the answer from within, and called it enlightment) he had the ability to act. This was within his capacity, he could releive others suffering if he got up from under that tree and in a pro active way came to the aid of those that were suffering under his watch. 

No you cannot prove and there is no evidence that shows suffering is natural. Even if it is everywhere. But I can prove that suffering is unnatural and that it  is possible to understand suffering and put it in it's proper context. But that's me.


After 48 years of illness.🤤 Diagnosed for 34 years as bipolar of which i was on zoloft for 23 years. 300mg for the past 5 years.😲 I stoped zoloft mid  December 2017 tapering 25mg per week.🤒 Stopped completely 4 months later mid April 2018. A good decision but not without its problems. Incessant itching all over my body also patches of welps on my trunk and upper legs. After a trial of various kinds, soaking my body in all kinds of substances, ended up using goat milk soap and PawPaw soap which helps a lot. Eventually my body will forgive me for my excess use of of a drug. The only questions left remaining are 👀will i deal with my future stressors effectively and appropriately, has my 48 years of negative and positive experiances been a help or are there still underlying problems the the "god zoloft"🙏 only covered over since my youth, the comming years will reveal all.

My quote: "you must learn to laugh at yourself then you are a survivor."😉👑

Share this post


Link to post
xyz

gerg,

how do you define "Natural"- are all experiences that we reject are "unnatural"?

 

i agree with one thing that you said, suffering has no purpose except the one that we give to it, just like anything else in life.

so... why not give it a purpose then since we have no choice? why not make the best of the situation? why not learn something from it, and instead of using it to feel separated from others, use it to share our common ground?


june 2014 to feb  2015- on xanax 0.25 to 1mg/day- then CT - jan 2016 - panic attack, went on 3.75mg remeron to sleep march 2016- CT remeron (because it caused me tinnitus)- deep depression, couldn't sleep because of  intrusive Tinnitus

april to june 2016- valium 4mg, xanax as needed, lunesta 3mg

june 2016 - valium 4mg, lexapro 10mg

oct 2016- valium 2mg, lexapro 10mg- hold

march 2017- started daily micro liquid taper of valium and lex- -taper speed 0.0033mg valium daily and 0.033mg lex daily

may 2018- valium 1mg, lexapro 2.4mg - i had to slow down the rate of my daily micro taper considerably

LAST dose of Lexapro: 0.05mg on 05/17/19

LAST dose of valium: 0.04mg on 08/18/19

April 26th 2020- intense panic attack that lasted 4 days, akatisia, 0 sleep- suicidal, almost hospitalized- took rescue doses over 2 days- total: 1.5mg xanax, 18mg valium, 2x5mg lexapro

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
NobodySpecial

Gerg, I literally posted a study providing a scientific basis that suffering is beneficial...


Taper commencing 14/06/18:

  • Going down by 2.5mg per month from 35mg - once 2.5mg is bigger than the recommended 10%, I'll switch to a water solution. 
  • Planning to taper until October and then hold until 2019 - balancing study, work, life and holiday season.

 

Medication / withdrawal history:

  • Tapered July 2016 to October 2016, unsuccessful and reinstated to 30mg (didn't track specifics)
  • Tapered March 2017 to August 2017, was unsuccessful and reinstated to 35mg (didn't track specifics).
  • Current taper - started 1st January 2018 @ 32.5mg and 2.5mg per month until I reach a dose where 2.5 is > 10% of dose.

 

Morning supplements:

B complex, Niagen, COQ10, Black seed oil, Vitamin C, Zinc, Fish Oil, EGCG, Bosweilla Extract, Curcumin (Longvida), Vitamin D, R-ALA, NAC, Ashwagandha (occasionally), Epimedium / Icariin, Resveratol.

 

Evening supplements:

NatureCalm Magnesium, Glycine, Ashwagandha, Reishi, Schisandra, Melatonin.

I also take Phenibut (maximum 3 times weekly at a dose that doesn't build tolerance) and Oleamide when required.

Share this post


Link to post
Gerg

You ask what is natural as to suffering.

Naural comes from the word Nature, it is not a philosophical word nor can it be used in some weird abstract concept.

The Oxford Dictionary says the word Natural is

1. Existing in,  or produced by nature

2. Conforrmed by the ordinary course of nature, normal

3. Suited to be such by nature.

4. Not effected in manner.

5. Not surprising, to be expected.

6. (Of a child) illegitamate

7. Of a note, not flat or sharp

8. A person or thing that seems naturally suited (for a role purpose etc).

Natural Gas, Not manufactured.

It is not natural to want to hit your thumb with a hammer so as to feel better for the rest of the day. It is natural to care for your body and respect life and the lives of those we come ito contact with. Natural in life is kind loving and giving. Its object is to be of good spirits, upbeat, it does not produce harm as some form of bi product of life. It is proactive and generous.

There are many things that happen that are sad dissapointing unkind and dangerous such is that suffering brings. Suffering has taught us and condemed us as in a pit of despair. But to equate life with suffering as being as it were natural is a fàlacy, that we have come to accept as a positive truth when it is in truth a negative truth. Suffering may be everywhere but this does not make it a natural event. It might be a normal consequence for depression and you can learn from it so as to avoid further trauma. Suffering can be a vehicle toward wanting better results than presently exist but it is not natural, it is not a good end result in itself for as the word states you suffer. The real holy Grail of this question is not why do i suffer but how can i learn not to suffer as a result of my depression, withdrawl or pain. But this is mine. It all has to do with the type of homework you set for yourself so as to answer this question for yourself.


After 48 years of illness.🤤 Diagnosed for 34 years as bipolar of which i was on zoloft for 23 years. 300mg for the past 5 years.😲 I stoped zoloft mid  December 2017 tapering 25mg per week.🤒 Stopped completely 4 months later mid April 2018. A good decision but not without its problems. Incessant itching all over my body also patches of welps on my trunk and upper legs. After a trial of various kinds, soaking my body in all kinds of substances, ended up using goat milk soap and PawPaw soap which helps a lot. Eventually my body will forgive me for my excess use of of a drug. The only questions left remaining are 👀will i deal with my future stressors effectively and appropriately, has my 48 years of negative and positive experiances been a help or are there still underlying problems the the "god zoloft"🙏 only covered over since my youth, the comming years will reveal all.

My quote: "you must learn to laugh at yourself then you are a survivor."😉👑

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy