ChanceLucky: Antidepressant withdrawal, social anxiety, & pessimism

[Orangecat]

Sorry to hear rest is still fleeting. I can't recall if I told you yet but I'm having a good experience with acupuncture for mood and rest, also helps me stay aware of my body. Started doing acupuncture about three weeks ago. Hang in there!

[AliG]

 Hi Chance,

 

How are you ?

[ChanceLucky]

Thanks for asking! I've been OK. Sleep has been up and down but better, and hypochondria has subsided somewhat. However, I've encountered a conflict with a colleague at work at the worst time possible - right before my formal evaluation. I won't know the extent of the damage for a little while but she is in line to likely become my supervisor in the future and I've been playing out all sorts of worst-case scenarios. I believe I'll be meeting with her later in the week, and I'm hoping I can repair things somewhat. I'm lucky to have recently made two good friendships. They've been tremendous sources of support. The uncertainty stinks though.

[AliG]

 Sleeping better .  That's good !  ( how much, are you getting ? )       Hypochondria  -  down , is positive, as well . You're doing great !

 

What happened ? ( with the colleague ? )   Supervisor. Maybe you can make " amends".

 

 Two good friendships . That's positive !  Don't imagine the worst.  It sounds like you're traveling along quite well.

 

Let me know how it goes .  I hope it works out, for you.  P.S.   How's the exercise, coming along?

 

Love, Ali.

[ChanceLucky]

 Sleeping better .  That's good !  ( how much, are you getting ? )       Hypochondria  -  down , is positive, as well . You're doing great !

 

What happened ? ( with the colleague ? )   Supervisor. Maybe you can make " amends".

 

 Two good friendships . That's positive !  Don't imagine the worst.  It sounds like you're traveling along quite well.

 

Let me know how it goes .  I hope it works out, for you.  P.S.   How's the exercise, coming along?

 

Love, Ali.

The senior colleague was unhappy with my work and sent me a scathing e-mail, which she CC'd my supervisor on. She had some legitimate criticisms but was brutally excessive in my opinion. She didn't come to talk to me first. Just a brutal e-mail CC'ing my supervisor. We have today off work and work resumes tomorrow. Supervisor has supported me the past 4 years though. I'll have a better idea most likely tomorrow of the extent of the damage. The worst case scenario is either that they let me go or I stay but when this senior colleague becomes my supervisor, she makes my life miserable. I don't think either of these scenarios will happen but my brain is good at focusing on the worst case scenario! I've already started imagining each thing she could do to make my life miserable, how I'd respond, how she'd respond, how it would affect my anxiety and sleep, etc. Not a fun way to spend a day off!

 

The exercise is coming along reasonably well. I wish I could do much more but I've been at least doing one brisk 15-20 min walk each day - sometimes 2 walks and some light weightlifting most days.

[ChanceLucky]

Oh in terms of how much sleep? Maybe 5 1/2 hrs on average. I've had a lot of days with around 8 and then a brutal day with like 1 periodically, though. I think once this work situation is resolved, sleep will stabilize more. I'm very glad I'm getting some sleep though. That stretch of zero sleep was scary.

[AliG]

 That all sounds promising, Chance . 

 

You're right , " zero" sleep is challenging !!  to say the least !

 

Have you " joined " a gym ?  Yet ?

 

 I find it helps to be " accountable" , to friends etc.  Otherwise, I don't think , I could  put one foot in front of the other !   LOL.          After, no sleep !!

 

Ali.  

[ChanceLucky]

 That all sounds promising, Chance . 

 

You're right , " zero" sleep is challenging !!  to say the least !

 

Have you " joined " a gym ?  Yet ?

 

 I find it helps to be " accountable" , to friends etc.  Otherwise, I don't think , I could  put one foot in front of the other !   LOL.          After, no sleep !!

 

Ali.  

Promising? I assume you're replying to the sleep/exercise part, not the work part. My mind's being a bit obsessive about work right now. You may not have seen the work message I typed above.

[AliG]

 Yes . I suppose I was " skipping " over the " not great " stuff & focussing  on the " good ".    

[ChanceLucky]

Well, things are OK at work. A few things are going to change but they're minor details and my job is secure.

[apace41]

Well, things are OK at work. A few things are going to change but they're minor details and my job is secure.

 

Chance,

 

Great to hear.  I recognize that withdrawal is a factor in your tendency toward "catastrophic thinking" but perhaps this is a lesson that you need to work on gaining perspective.  You had almost assured yourself that this issue was going to be the end of your job and the stress that caused you for several days could have been avoided with some greater ability to step back and create some distance.

 

Not trying to be critical -- just constructive.

 

Hope you take it that way.

 

Andy

[ChanceLucky]

 

Well, things are OK at work. A few things are going to change but they're minor details and my job is secure.

 

Chance,

 

Great to hear.  I recognize that withdrawal is a factor in your tendency toward "catastrophic thinking" but perhaps this is a lesson that you need to work on gaining perspective.  You had almost assured yourself that this issue was going to be the end of your job and the stress that caused you for several days could have been avoided with some greater ability to step back and create some distance.

 

Not trying to be critical -- just constructive.

 

Hope you take it that way.

 

Andy

 

Yeah, I know. The worst case scenarios I think about almost never happen. It's so hard to gain that perspective though. You're right. I have to try to.

[ChanceLucky]

Sleep has been very good - probably 7 hours a night now. On the downside, I'm pretty sure anxiety about dating is one of the things that keep me up at night and being single again has contributed to my better sleep. I think I'm just going to enjoy single life for a little while. Starting December, I actually won't have to work mornings. Classes will be early afternoon and early evenings. So that removes some sleep pressure. I'm sure I'll have some work that I'll want to get done in the mornings but it will be more flexible.

I've been walking about 1 mile pretty fast each morning. At times, my right hip or lower back gets a little sore but it's not that bad and I feel it's better than doing no exercise. 

[Orangecat]

Congratulations on the excercize! Geez that's huge. And on getting better sleep. That sounds like a virtuous cycle. I'm glad things are looking up for you.

[ChanceLucky]

My hypochondria and dating worries have been brutal for a while now. Part of me wants to share the details but I worry about really obscure health stuff and it will probably sound like I’ve gone a bit crazy. Although I’ve had many of these fears for a while, they’ve really intensified in the past week. My therapist thinks my health anxieties might be because part of my unconscious mind wants me to be a sick kid and be taken care of by a motherly figure. I lost my mom in early childhood and never really got taken care of. I’ve also been afraid of romantic relationships, especially physical intimacy. In many ways, being in a mature romantic relationship is the ultimate way of being an adult and no longer needing a mom to take care of you, and he thinks my unconscious is too afraid to do that right now. For a variety of complicated reasons, I feel like I’ll never be able to calm down and be in a mature rewarding relationship. I’ve lost a lot of hope. I have to somehow get past these intimacy fears.

 

I know people will advise against it but part of me wants to go back on a higher dose of Celexa like 10 mg. I was functioning so much better when I was on a higher dose. I had some anxiety but it wasn’t this severe. But I’ve read the worrisome stuff that you guys are all familiar with about long-term effects of antidepressants. And I realize increasing the Celexa could shock my brain and even make things worse rather than returning me to the level of functioning I was at a year ago on a higher dose. I just want to feel better. Some things like being with my dog, working, talking with people, and light exercise are helping but they still don’t give me the kind of enjoyment they used to.

[ChanceLucky]

Well, the past message might not have conveyed how hard this has been. It's embarrassing to have my bizarre anxieties (below) that most people don't have. I know they probably sound ridiculous. Basically, my hypochondria and dating fears have merged in a bad way. Like, I worry about getting an STD but I also started reading about all the factors associated with incorrect STD test results - like you can get a false positive HIV result if you've gotten the flu shot or get regular allergy shots (both of which I get). I don't have any symptoms and have a very low risk based on my history - this is all just fear but it's been costing me sleep and well-being. I feel like if I entered a relationship, I might never get valid test results or might never know for sure if my partner was clear. Part of me just doesn't want there to be any risk in life. Every time I've been in a relationship, I've found some way to ruin it with some kind of fear. It's just never felt this harsh or carried over into when I wasn't dating. Usually when I'm not dating I have false hope that the next relationship will work. 
 

I also used to find that slow diaphragmatic breathing was helping me but then I read that it risks taking in too much air and lowering your CO2 levels in a way that's dangerous for the brain. I know there's still a huge body of evidence supporting abdominal breathing for anxiety but I've not been able to be as calm while doing the exercises anymore.

[ChanceLucky]

Well, I have chilled out a little bit. I've been thinking about how my therapist thinks I have both a strong motivation to be in a relationship and a strong unconscious motivation to avoid one (and just be a kid who finally has a mom take care of him). I think my turmoil right now is just a battle between those two motivations. I feel a little embarrassed to have revealed everything I did above but I have been really struggling. I have periods of enjoyment mixed in. They're not wonderful highs but they're enough to make life worthwhile.

[tgirl]

Good to hear!

[ChanceLucky]

Good to hear!

Well I'm still an anxious mess. The anxiety just became a little less harsh.

[ChanceLucky]

Slept very little these last two nights. Wow, what a rough spot I've hit. I did enjoy the class I teach this morning, though. It was a great distraction. I'm going to try to talk to my therapist this week before our Friday apt.

Edited October 19, 2015 by ChanceLucky

[Orangecat]

I'm sorry to hear things have been tough. We've all been there, in our own ways- you're not alone, and things aren't hopeless. It sounds like you're doing some good work with your therapist. If it seems to be ringing true, I'd advise you to just hold on to the thoughts and feelings that are coming up, even though they are likely painful. I like to listen to Tara Brach, who advises radically accepting oneself, the "bad" along with the good. It makes it all easier to bear. And you can change for the better, and you can become more aware of your actions and emotions.

 

I speak from experience!! Spending my day trying to avoid my addictive tendencies, which crop up when I'm overwhelmed. But it's not a bad day, even if it feels a little lousy. I'm getting better at this.

 

Wishing you the best. Maybe buy yourself a small treat? You deserve to be handled carefully right now I'd say!

[ChanceLucky]

Thanks, Orangecat. I've been feeling better, though not great. The anxiety lately has been sporadic and medium or high but not brutal. My sleep has generally been better. I had four straight nights of about 7 hrs of sleep, though only like an hour last night since I kept thinking about the issue below. Oh well.

 

I think my anxiety has been worse since I started the melatonin. Even the next day after the first dose, I felt a little off. I'm reading that anxiety is a less common but possible side effect. (I definitely have a lot of work to do in therapy too. I'm not ruling that out.) I'm only taking 0.4 mg at night (and it's been only for about 5 weeks). I'm wondering if it's contributing to the anxiety. I think it has generally helped with sleep, though. So I'm not sure whether to stop it, decrease it, or neither. If it's helping sleep and not contributing to the anxiety, then stopping would be a bad idea. Has anyone here ever stopped melatonin? Did you do a taper? If so, how fast?

[melanie]

Hi ChanceLucky,

 

That was quite an effort to dig up your thread, but I succeeded! Thank you for taking the time to write on mine... That means a lot... Although this was a long while ago. Days fly by like seconds for me...

 

Am not familiar with your thread yet, sorry... Hope to be one day. There's so much to read... But in your first post, you ask some very basic questions:

 

"Am I living a worthwhile life?"

 

"Is there any meaning to life?"

 

These questions have been bothering me for so many years, ever since I lost my faith in God, due to life trauma. I even completed philosophy studies to get these questions answered. Started writing a PhD theses on existential philosophers... And I've always been a pessimist. I owe lots of this pessimism to meds, probably. And to life trauma. The question is: just how much? How to overcome this pessimism?

 

You know, there is such a book as "Learned Optimism", by Martin E.P. Seligman. Good read!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Martin-E-Seligman/dp/1442341130

 

I guess, when we're able to tackle, just a bit, our respective med problems and underlying psychological issues, we'll be better equipped to answer those questions about life meaning.

 

I used to take Wellbutrin for a month in 2013 (pdoc switched me from Effexor XR at the time) and am all too familiar with addiction to coffee/OTC stimulants. If these ADs weren't screwing up our neurotransmitters, we wouldn't need those stimulant mind-altering substances. That is the conclusion I came to long ago.

 

Used to be a teacher as well. Tough job... Couldn't stand being exposed to people - I have social phobia.

 

How are you these days? Is Autumn getting you down? Or maybe a lovely window opened for a while?

 

Wishing you lots of healing,

Mel

[Orangecat]

Yes, how are things Chance? From a fan.

[ChanceLucky]

Sorry I haven't' posted in a while. I'm doing reasonably well. I'm exercising more. I walk my dog about 2 miles a day now and then do a little more walking on my own and do moderate weight-lifting. Sleep has been pretty good. I still at times get really caught up in worries, though.

[ChanceLucky]

In a sense, things are going quite well though my anxiety gets bad at times. I figured I'd give another update. On a positive note, work has been going well - I was recommended for a long-term contract and even offered a prestigious new position at my institution. I'm 50/50 on taking it. It would be great career-wise (as long as I did the work well) but I'm not sure I want it and with my anxiety and sleep the way they are, it might be too much to take on. I also went on a first date last night that went well.

 

On a negative note, I have a lot of stressors that have really worsened my anxiety. The biggest was a recent car accident. I'm OK but it's been a nightmare trying to get insurance to cover it and pay for original manufacturer not cheap replacement parts. The car is having body work though it's not substantial. But the thought that the car won't be as safe as before really worries me. I have a few other minor stressors (like huge stacks of papers to grade) that I think will resolve with time.

 

I guess the pattern I've noticed is that I have stretches of days where I feel very good - minimal worry, good sleeping, positive mood, etc. Then I have stretches where I get really overwhelmed, feel anxious, and don't sleep much. I'm beginning to realize and accept that that's just how things are. I'm in one of those overwhelmed stretches but I can appreciate its temporary nature. At least I'm nowhere near suicidal - I do feel life is worthwhile and I do get some sleep. I have a friend who's been suicidal at times, and it's really given me some perspective. So has reading how much many people here struggle. 

 

I've been doing a decent job keeping up with exercising. I walk my dog 2 miles a day - that's all she can do. We try to make sure we have at least one stretch of ten min of fast walking without stopping. Then some days I do a 15 min brisk walk on my own. And about twice a week I do moderate weight lifting. I'm surprised my joints have been OK tolerating this. I really did just need to gradually increase the exercising, and optimistically, maybe I can continue to. Well, that's where I am in life now.

[ChanceLucky]

I've been doing pretty well overall. I've been in a period of calm the last few days. I have a lot of grading to do for work right now, which I complain about but it keeps me busy. I have a date tonight that I'm looking forward to also.

[Orangecat]

Sounds like fun : ). Congratulations on your new job offer. Even if you don't accept it, what an affirmation of your worth to your employer. That's great. How's sleep going? Mine is okay most of the time and then sometimes rotten, but never so difficult as what you have described here. 

 

Have fun on your date. Don't give up on figuring out how to have relationships last without getting overwhelmed by anxiety. I know it can happen for you. And then on the other hand, wishing you some lighthearted enjoyment without worrying about a greater scheme. 

 

Hopeful for you!

[ChanceLucky]

Sleep has been going pretty well (knock on wood!). I've been getting 6 to 8 hours every night. Every once in a while I have a bad night with little sleep because something is on my mind but that's been rare.

 

I really like this woman but dating is overwhelming for me. On the rare moments when I wasn't anxious, I had a great time but my anxiety was definitely higher than I expected. She told me she had a great time too and she seems like she'd be willing to patient with me and my anxiety. I wish there was an easier way to do this!

 

I ended up turning down the offer at work. I thought a lot about it but felt it was too much for me to take on right now. It was an honor to be asked though.

[Orangecat]

Good for you! Sounds like things are going well!!

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, CL. Where are you with the Celexa, Wellbutrin, etc.?

[ChanceLucky]

Good question. I went up to a 5 mg reinstatement for Celexa and have stayed there for a few weeks now. I think I'm just going to stabilize at that dose for a while. The Wellbutrin is still 200 mg and Benadryl 25 mg at night. The thought of tapering those final 5 mg of Celexa scares me. If anything, I might taper the Benadryl and then the Wellbutrin first and save the Celexa for last.

[Altostrata]

That's a plan! You might want to join the The 'Hold till after Xmas' Club

[ChanceLucky]

Thanks. Is there a discussion about how long to wait between tapering different drugs? I'm not sure how long to just stay stable like this before working on either the Wellbutrin or Benadryl.

[ChanceLucky]

I've been walking about 3 miles a day now in my neighborhood - about half with my dog and half faster by myself. I think it helps with the anxiety.

[AliG]

Chance ,

 

If I were you , I would hold on everything until after Xmas , except for the Benadryl. I would be working to taper that down , a little quicker. I'm glad to see you walking . You do sound much more positive.