Freeby60: this month is the 24th anniversary of getting on ADs - 24 years!

[Freeby60]

Hi Wingbatty! Sorry that you experiencing such a difficult " dip". I'm not in the best place myself right now although I do have good days. The worst is getting out of bed in the morning. The anxiety is at its peak then. Sometimes I can just be ok and get out of bed and move on with my day, but right now I'm just very tired of feeling this way and confused that I still am having reinstated awhile ago. I think I need to be proactive and meditate or do yoga, but getting past how I feel to do that is a barrier.

[Freeby60]

Hello All!

 

I am wondering how I should judge it a good time to start tapering the Lexapro. In November and December 2015 I completed tapers off acid blockers and Wellbutrin. Then went on to taper too fast off the Lexapro, which I reinstated back to my original dosage (from 20mgs to 10mgs back to 20mgs). I experienced difficult anxiety, feelings of hopelessness, loss of motivation and usual positive and happy outlook. I also experienced burning sensations in limbs, occasional electrical zaps, restless legs, etc.

 

I have tried to get off AD prior to this attempt, as I have shared before, and experienced predominantly anxiety. My Pdoc maintained that this is my illness recurring and not WDS, and I went back on. Usually, within a month I would start to feel markedly better and ultimately back to myself. After this past reinstatement (December), I continue to experience anxiety mostly in the morning, and battle negative emotions. 

 

Is it known what I should expect going forward? Should my expectation be that I will become anxiety-free and have my usual sunny outlook, and so should put off beginning tapering anew until I feel back to myself? It is my belief that these ongoing symptoms are due to a sensitive CNS and not illness. Is it recommended that I give it more time to see if my NS will stabilize (anxiety-free?) before I attempt to taper? How long should I wait? I realize these may be a matter of when I feel I am ready, but thought there might be some advice that will help me decide when to start to taper. Given that I tapered too quickly, I understand that I may have to put off beginning again. Any thoughts?

[Fresh]

Hi Freeby ,  what date in December did you reinstate lexapro , could you add the date to your sig. please.

 

It's not a good idea to start tapering until you have gotten as well as you can get.  That means waiting a bit longer , until you feel you're no longer improving.  More symptoms will likely resolve over the next weeks / months , and your natural personality will be able to shine through.

 

After my too-fast taper in 2013 , I reinstated in 2014 , and waited 8 months before beginning to taper.  Given that you've recently come off 2 other drugs , I'd be inclined to err on the side of caution , and give your cns a good few months to recover from this 

latest hiccup.

 

bw ,  Fresh

[Freeby60]

Thank you, Fresh. That was my feeling~ grateful for the advice. I will keep holding. Freeby

[Freeby60]

Today was a bad day. I had a good 3 day weekend period, where I felt a bit like myself and able to do what I needed and wanted to do and feel some pleasure. But this is soooo rare, and that makes me extremely sad about all of this. Started out on Monday feeling some positiveness and motivation, which is a complete shock as I don't feel that way these days at all. Then, today seemed to crash. Yes, it is a wave, but it seems like the waves are in proportion to the window. Big window: Big wave. Little window: Little wave. Does anybody else feel that way?

 

It was so bad that I didn't go to work and didn't get out of bed until after 2pm. I cried about how tired I am of all of this. Tired of the anxiety, tired of pushing myself to do things that never seemed like a complete chore before. Honestly, I should probably be glad that I cried today~ I am feeling miserable and anxious. I need my brain back. I need it back badly.

 

I felt so good this past weekend that I thought I would start to taper. I really need to be off this stuff. I had a lot of anxiety on the 10mg dose, but 20 is too much for me and I need to get off. How do I do that when the good windows are followed by such proportionately bad waves?  Is this getting better? Because it sucks.

[Freeby60]

Is it possible that reinstating Wellbutrin is needed? It has been about 4 months since I completed taper. Could that help ease my anxiety?

[Freeby60]

I am also having symptoms such as involuntary tongue movements. agitated legs and and burning sensations.

[Fresh]

Freeby ,  how long have you been having each of the symptoms above for , in particular the tongue movements?

[Freeby60]

Freeby ,  how long have you been having each of the symptoms above for , in particular the tongue movements?

Since being back on the Lexepro (reinstated mid-December 20mgs) it is the last month that I have noticed them occurring again. This symptom was one of many reasons I was tapering. I had the tongue movements for approximately six months to a year prior to completing the taper off Wellbutrin and the reduction of Lexepro to 10 mgs. They were gone when I was down to 10 mgs.

 

Burning sensations have occurred since I reinstated the Lex to 20mgs. Never had this symptom prior.

 

Agitated legs were present prior to tapering when I was on full dosage of Wellbutrin 200mgs and Lexepro 20 mgs for several years, I'm afraid. I managed this by taking half milligram of Klonopin or Alprazolam. Trying not to use the Benzos anymore, but the agitated legs can make me crazy.

[Fresh]

I can see from  your sig. that you've had this before.  So it comes with the higher doses.  

Given this new information , it's sounding like things are getting worse rather than better , would you agree?

How do you feel about starting to taper the lexapro?

[ladybug]

Is it possible that reinstating Wellbutrin is needed? It has been about 4 months since I completed taper. Could that help ease my anxiety?

 

Wellbutrin tends to be stimulating and that is why it is usually prescribed for depression and not anxiety. Due to this fact I don't think it would ease your anxiety at all. I agree with Fresh, it sounds like your symptoms are due to the Lexapro dose being too high and not the Wellbutrin. A small drop might actually improve your symptoms. I have found this to be the case with me many times in the past.

[Freeby60]

I can see from  your sig. that you've had this before.  So it comes with the higher doses.  

Given this new information , it's sounding like things are getting worse rather than better , would you agree?

How do you feel about starting to taper the lexapro?

 

 

It has been my concern that improvement wasn't what I was experiencing, so I agree that tapering is a good idea. Do you feel that the usually recommended 10% makes sense or do you suggest starting at 5%?

[Freeby60]

 

Is it possible that reinstating Wellbutrin is needed? It has been about 4 months since I completed taper. Could that help ease my anxiety?

 

Wellbutrin tends to be stimulating and that is why it is usually prescribed for depression and not anxiety. Due to this fact I don't think it would ease your anxiety at all. I agree with Fresh, it sounds like your symptoms are due to the Lexapro dose being too high and not the Wellbutrin. A small drop might actually improve your symptoms. I have found this to be the case with me many times in the past.

 

That makes sense. I noticed when I dropped the Wellbutrin that I became very tired. In fact, it may be that was why it was added. I was constantly complaining about being tired! I will try the taper. I'll ask you the same question I did Fresh, does it sound like 10% is a good place to start, or 5%?

[Sarabera]

Hi Freeby, Just wanted to give you some encouragement--you can do this, and even after many years, be okay. I was on a tricyclic (as well as assorted other drugs) for 34 years, and am now very close to being completely off! I was basically forced to cold-turkey the drug I was on, am now on just .325mg, enough so that I can sleep well and stomach isn't a mess. I'm actually quite surprised at how well things have gone after the C/T. Keep your chin up and think about how great it will be to be drug free after all these years!

Sarah

[ladybug]

 

 

Is it possible that reinstating Wellbutrin is needed? It has been about 4 months since I completed taper. Could that help ease my anxiety?

 

Wellbutrin tends to be stimulating and that is why it is usually prescribed for depression and not anxiety. Due to this fact I don't think it would ease your anxiety at all. I agree with Fresh, it sounds like your symptoms are due to the Lexapro dose being too high and not the Wellbutrin. A small drop might actually improve your symptoms. I have found this to be the case with me many times in the past.

 

That makes sense. I noticed when I dropped the Wellbutrin that I became very tired. In fact, it may be that was why it was added. I was constantly complaining about being tired! I will try the taper. I'll ask you the same question I did Fresh, does it sound like 10% is a good place to start, or 5%?

 

 

Whenever I am worried whether a drop will make me worse or better I like to try a smaller one than usual to "test the waters". A 5% drop would hopefully be large enough to test the theory that it's too much Lexapro causing your symptoms, but not so large that if you do experience increased symptoms you can't hold and stabilize quickly or return to your previous dose without too much disruption. Just my two cents on the matter. Whatever percentage you decide I hope it does indeed help.

[Freeby60]

Hi Freeby, Just wanted to give you some encouragement--you can do this, and even after many years, be okay. I was on a tricyclic (as well as assorted other drugs) for 34 years, and am now very close to being completely off! I was basically forced to cold-turkey the drug I was on, am now on just .325mg, enough so that I can sleep well and stomach isn't a mess. I'm actually quite surprised at how well things have gone after the C/T. Keep your chin up and think about how great it will be to be drug free after all these years!

Sarah

Thank you for the encouragement! I wish this wasn't all so much guess work, but time will tell!

[Freeby60]

 

 

 

Is it possible that reinstating Wellbutrin is needed? It has been about 4 months since I completed taper. Could that help ease my anxiety?

Wellbutrin tends to be stimulating and that is why it is usually prescribed for depression and not anxiety. Due to this fact I don't think it would ease your anxiety at all. I agree with Fresh, it sounds like your symptoms are due to the Lexapro dose being too high and not the Wellbutrin. A small drop might actually improve your symptoms. I have found this to be the case with me many times in the past.

That makes sense. I noticed when I dropped the Wellbutrin that I became very tired. In fact, it may be that was why it was added. I was constantly complaining about being tired! I will try the taper. I'll ask you the same question I did Fresh, does it sound like 10% is a good place to start, or 5%?

Whenever I am worried whether a drop will make me worse or better I like to try a smaller one than usual to "test the waters". A 5% drop would hopefully be large enough to test the theory that it's too much Lexapro causing your symptoms, but not so large that if you do experience increased symptoms you can't hold and stabilize quickly or return to your previous dose without too much disruption. Just my two cents on the matter. Whatever percentage you decide I hope it does indeed help.

Thank you Ladybug! I appreciate your support and advice. I hope it helps, too.

[Freeby60]

Tapered 5% off lexapro (1mg) as of Mar 25th in the hopes of reducing symptoms. I felt an immediate relief of anxiety and brain fog/emotional remoteness. The lower torso restless was eased. The tongue continues to have a life of its own, but does not feel as intense. This morning I had anxiety for the first time in 3 days, but it was milder than usual and didn't last. I felt more focused today at work than I have in awhile.

 

Thanks for the help, everyone!

[apace41]

That is great news, Freeby!  Don't want to jump too quickly, but it seems like Fresh might have hit the nail on the head on this one!

 

Let's hope this continues.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Freeby60]

I agree! Thanks, Andy ????

[Freeby60]

UPDATE & QUESTION:

 

Should I hold or taper again in hopes of further reducing symptoms?

 

Since tapering 5% off lexapro (1mg) as of Mar 25th in the hopes of reducing symptoms, immediate relief of anxiety seems to have gradually been lost. I will say week one was lovely- even with anxiety returning it seemed to remain short lived in the mornings, and I had the confidence that I would be alright once I began my day. I have had a couple of bad days anxiety-wise when I felt like I couldn't function and did a fair amount of crying that I couldn't take it anymore. The brain fog/emotional remoteness remains lessened and this is very good! The easing of lower torso restlessness remains as well with only one or 2 nights when I felt I needed Lorazapam (0.25mg) to stop the agitation.

 

I still have involuntary tongue movements, but do feel a slight relief there. The burning feelings have not been an issue this past week.

 

Overall, then, there is continued mild improvement. Perhaps, if my job was not as stressful as it currently is, I would have greater gains anxiety wise, but work is a big trigger!

 

That being said, I have been making my own suspension to taper, and just got an Rx for liquid solution that I assume will be more accurate. Small blessings!

 

Again, it is so good to have the benefit of your experience and generosity! Thank you all!

[Freeby60]

I should add I did feel some flushing a few hours after using the liquid for the first time

[brassmonkey]

Hi Freeby-- I glad you got some relief for a week or so, any little bit helps.  It's only been two weeks since you reduced, so it would probably be a good idea to wait at least two more before trying another drop.  Dose reductions almost always are followed by a spike in symptoms which have to be resolved before the next reduction.  Otherwise they compound each other and can really hit back hard.

[ladybug99]

Yay, FB60!!! You're making headway! Little by little, moment by moment, we get there. Glad you got the Rx liquid prescription. Certainly makes doing the reductions a lot easier. Keep up the good work!

[Freeby60]

Thanks Lady ????

[Freeby60]

Could use some advice on this though-

 

After taking one dose of liquid anxiety is really high. Haven't taken dose yet today, afraid the liquid is too potent (?) or something than my home made suspension. In addition to anxiety spike had some flushing/burning. Woke up this morning with high anxiety. Feeling like I'm living a nightmare. Could have nothing to do new liquid, but ...

 

Should I keep taking liquid? I just don't want to add fuel to the fire. I know it is more accurate than my suspension but afraid to!

 

Also, when the anxiety gets bad enough that I can't function I feel like I want take something to take the edge off things. I am the only income earner in my household with a son in college, my work is solely commission so if I don't work it's bad. I have a Rx for Lorazapam - what do people think about taking it short term? Any thoughts, experience in doing so while tapering off AD?

[ChessieCat]

Hi Freeby60

 

Firstly check the concentration of the prescribed liquid.

 

You could try a gradual switch over by taking a combination of your home made liquid and the prescribed liquid (eg 2/3 + 1/3 for 4 days then 1/2 + 1/2 for 4 days then 1/3 + 2/3 for 4 days OR 3/4 + 1/4 etc if that is easier to measure).  Some people have issues changing from dry to liquid and some have issues going from non-generic to generic.

[Freeby60]

Thanks, Chessycat!

 

The concentration is 5mg/5ml, so it is simple to work with, 1:1. I had no difficulty with the second day in terms of flushing, etc. Perhaps, some of my anxiety was making any change that might rock the boat. Today being Saturday anxiety is very mild! Oh if I only had a lifetime of Saturday's ahead of me, things might be a little easier ????

[ChessieCat]

Hi FB60

 

That's good to hear.

 

Re Lorazapam:  My suggestion would be NOT to take it.  It is a benzo and could easily become addictive and would need to be tapered.

 

From rxlist.com:

 

"Common side effects of Ativan include drowsiness, dizziness, muscle weakness, headache, blurred vision, sleep problems (insomnia), loss of balance or coordination, forgetfulness, difficulty concentrating, nausea, vomiting, constipation, changes in appetite, or rash. Like all benzodiazepines, Ativan can cause physical dependence.

 

I also did a drug interaction check:

Interactions between your selected drugs

Moderate lorazepam escitalopram

Applies to: Lorazepam Intensol (lorazepam), Lexapro (escitalopram)

Using LORazepam together with escitalopram may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[Freeby60]

Wow, Chessiecat! Thank you for taking the time to do that check! I was thinking if it was only intermittent use i could avoid the dependence, but I wasn't considering the issue of interactions.

 

Thanks,

Freeby60

[ChessieCat]

Hi FB60

 

You're welcome.  That's what is so great about this site.  It's the combination of support, encouragement, other people's brains working when ours aren't, thinking of things that we haven't though of, brainstorming, thinking outside the box, combining our knowledge and all of that sort of stuff.

 

You posted that you have read Claire Weekes.  Here a couple others:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

[Freeby60]

Chessiecat, I don't believe I have the words to thank you properly. Here I am feeling sorry for myself, dreading going to sleep because I know I will wake up feeling slammed by anxiety, and you have been so thoughtful with your time and support. Thank you.

[ChessieCat]

Hi FB60,

 

I'm pleased to have been able to assist.  Now that you have mentioned the waking with anxiety, here is another link:

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing cortisol spikes

 

Be aware of anticipatory anxiety too:

 

http://www.drmartinseif.com/resources/anticipitory-anxiety.html

[Freeby60]

I seem to recall Altostrata responding to someone that taking small doses of benzos in moderation if necessary to function is okay. Can anyone confirm that for me? Alto?

[Fresh]

It should be okay Freeby , but if you take benzos more than 3 or 4 days consecutively , you're at risk of w/d

symptoms. So tiny , infrequent doses if you feel you really need it.

 

I was pleased for you that your reduction had a good result. I'm less cautious than brassmonkey in this instance.

Another 5% cut after 2 weeks is the equivalent of 10% every 4-6 weeks. So I would think trying another 5% decrease

is very reasonable. Maybe if you do another small decrease , you'll be less agitated and won't need the benzo?

[Freeby60]

Unforetunately I also tried to reinstate 10mgs of Wellbutrin which caused an uptick in anxiety that is quite acute, I took only one dose with immediate bad reaction so stopped. That was Monday. So I am thinking I need to hold. Very unhappy with myself right now, to say the least. Feel desperate right now.