Freeby60: this month is the 24th anniversary of getting on ADs - 24 years!

[Fresh]

If it were me I might take 1/2mg valium or equivalent if this is an extraordinary situation.

No point beating yourself up.

You might want to add the one 10mg dose of wellbutrin to your signature so it doesn't get lost

in your thread.

 

It will take a few days to get the wellbutrin out of your system. Maybe then another 5% cut

of lexapro will feel right.

[Freeby60]

Thank you Fresh- very much appreciated!

[Freeby60]

I have written about this before. Since too fast taper on Lexepro and then too high reinstatement ~ or who knows why?? I have been experiencing:

 

Anxiety. Lack of motivation. Crying before work each morning. Fear of doing certain aspects of my job. Fear of being alone. All of these symptoms, plus involuntary tongue movements, occasional feelings of agitation in legs at night while trying to sleep, disassociation. Brain fog. Mistakes at work. Thoughts that I can't go on like this anymore.

 

I am very lucky to have a very supportive family. I know I am loved and will be supported no matter how long or how hard this will be. That doesn't mitigate that my husband is underemployed and my work paid by commission with a small base salary. To succeed in my job I must network regularly, attend functions outside of work hours, make over 100 phone calls a week, and sell sell sell. I have numbers I need to meet each week. Underperform for a extended period of time, say one quarter, and it is very hard and grueling work to recoup losses. Sales is a very unforgiving line of work.

 

Knowing what I do now, I would put off this tapering entirely until I am retired. But, reinstating the Lex after a too fast taper has wreaked havoc on my cns and the Lex is no longer "working". I have become sensitized to AD's I assume.

 

Witness the horrible reaction to 10 measly mgs of Wellbutrin. Several days later and still crazed. Missed several days of work just prior to a planned vacation with my son and husband. I felt so bad, I thought I would be sending family off on vacation and me to the hospital. I was unable to travel, but unable to be alone. Hence, questions above about using something to alleviate the anxiety short-term you can read above.

 

I did, and had a wonderful vacation, felt like a human being for the first time in many months. I was taking 1/4 mg of klonapin 2x daily (never seems to last). Upon returning home I gave myself a couple days before deciding to stop the Klonapin and see how I feel. Had a great work week. Stopped the Klonapin by taking 1/8 mg 2x daily for a couple of days.

 

And then. Anxiety. Lack of motivation. Crying before work each morning. Fear of doing certain aspects of my job. Fear of being alone. All of these symptoms, plus involuntary tongue movements, occasional feelings of agitation in legs at night while trying to sleep, disassociation. Brain fog. Mistakes at work. Thoughts that I can't go on like this anymore.

 

You get the drill. I went back on the Klonapin. If this is the only way I can function, then so be it. I am kicking the can down the road. I know I will not like any of this any better years from now, and I'm probably making it harder for myself in the future, but I can't watch my world fall down around me and take my beautiful family with me.

 

So, I am currently taking .5 mg KP (.25 twice daily) and just took another cut of the Lex. After my terrible reaction to the WB, my pdoc agrees that I should continue to taper off the Lex, using the Klonapin to function.

 

Any thoughts, words of wisdom or encouragement will be much appreciated. Yours in this awful struggle, Freeby60.

[Altostrata]

You are still recovering, Freeby.

 

Please see Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Also, many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Taking a bit of magnesium citrate now and then might very well take the edge off that anxiety and reduce your need for benzos. I know it seems odd, but a simple little thing like that, plus fish oil, might help.
 

[Freeby60]

Thank you, Alto. I would like to try your suggestion. How do you recommend I make this transition from benzos to fish oil & magnesium citrate? I have been taking the klonapin regularly (1/2 mg) daily since 4/14. Thanks!

[Wellness]

Freeby,

 

I just read your symptoms and feel sad that you got trapped taking these drugs.

 

I know you need encouragement, but the problem with taking clonazepam daily is that you build tolerance so darn fast, it only takes a few days before your brain starts adjusting to the drug state.

 

I understand that you feel you need the drugs to keep your job and perform and if I felt that clonazepam could do that for you until you retired, I would not voice my concern, but it is possible that within a week or two, or a month or two the dose that you are currently taking just won't work anymore.

 

You could be feeling the need to Increase the dose and you could be taking 2-3 mg/day just to get the feeling that you are now getting with 0.25 mg.

 

And as you are now finding out, the feeling is short lived.  If you don't take your dose on time at the right dosage, you immediately go into withdrawal, and even if you do take your dose on time, you could start feeling withdrawal between doses.  

Coming off of clonazepam is really really hard.   It is a very powerful drugs for which your brain has absolutely no natural defense.  

 

Please consider coming off of the Clonazepam.  It could save you months of suffering if you come off of it before it has time to take a hold on you.

 

I'm going to post a link to the Ashton manual, it is a bit of a long read but worth every word.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

 

You have only been taking it for a couple of weeks, going a fast taper might be your best option.  We do heal in time, the anxiety does go away.

[Freeby60]

What is considered a fast taper?

[Wellness]

Clonazepam has a long a long half life (30 to 40 hours) so it would take 2-4  days before you could feel the strongest withdrawal symptoms from a cut.  It might be a good idea to make a cut and wait to see if you are going to experience symptoms.  A fast taper would look like this: 

If you are taking 0.25 mg twice a day, then cut to 

 

0.125 am, 0.25 pm for three days, then

0.125 am, 0.125 pm for three more day, 

then 0.125 mg/day (either once or split) for a few days.

 

You need to see if you are going to have a strong withdrawal reaction, if you do have strong symptoms, then you should consider going slower.

 

Take heart, all these withdrawal symptoms come to an end. 

[Freeby60]

Thank you very much, Wellness! I will post an update soon, to let you know how it goes.

 

Alto had mention earlier adding fish oil and magnesium. Should I wait unti I am sure I am not having strong withdrawal symptoms?

[JanCarol]

Hey Freeby!  Congratulations on working while tapering!  That is no small feat!  And in sales, no less.  

 

My suggestion is do as Wellness says, and when you are off the benzo, start the fish oil first, then the magnesium.  Taper them in over a period of about 2 - 4 weeks - just to make sure you don't have a reaction to them.  Most people benefit from them, but there are a few who react.

 

I understand that your symptoms are intense, and affect so many areas of your life.  I cannot imagine being in sales while worrying about my akathisia, for example.  If you'd been on the benzo for years, you could continue to use it - but Wellness is very good and understands benzos very well - and she says you  have a chance to get off before you get addicted, which makes this top priority.

 

If you wait until you try the fish oil & magnesium (usually the first things I suggest, and excellent first steps in a taper), you might get more deeply entwined with the Ativan.  So the fish oil and magnesium can come in later to help you with your lexapro taper.  Bringing Fsh oil and magnesium in, are a good thing to do while in a hold (they aren't usually dramatic) while waiting for your next taper.

 

You're doing so well!  I can see you've come a long way from your beginning here in SA - and I hope you feel it too!

[Freeby60]

Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement! It is amazing to me how while all of you are struggling with your own wd you have the focus and caring to offer advice! I did take Wellness' advice and began to taper according to her suggested schedule. it became apparent, as she noted, that I was already noticing a reduction in efficacy, knowing I would only have to continue to increase, something I was not prepared to do. It was naive to think I could just continue with such a small amount for a long period of time, something my pdoc didn't disabuse me of, so really, what choice would I have but to bite the bullet and get off the benzos! I'm glad I am. It is day 3 and no bad reaction has reared its head, so I will continue to taper quickly on Wellness' suggested schedule. I realize my CNS has been under quite an assault. So I am pleased with my progress. I'm very fortunate to have have a loving and supportive husband, and healthy and happy children. Not to mention good friends, both online and off! Thank you, again, for your advice. I agree with your suggestion of adding fish oil and magnesium judiciously ( I was taking MG for constipation, but happily now off the Wellbutrin it isn't necessary for that! I have a few things to update on my signature, which I will do soon! All the best, freeby60!

[Freeby60]

Just to update, I have done the first 6 days of suggested taper off benzo and have not had a bad reaction. Starting tomorrow I will be at .125mg daily for a few days and then hopefully able to stop. I hope things continue to go well. Again, I am very appreciative of all the support and advice given regarding this. Ooxx

[Altostrata]

Please keep in touch, Freeby.

[Freeby60]

Oh, I shall! You have not heard the last of me!!

[Freeby60]

Hello Wellness, could use your advice if u are able. Yesterday I went to .125 (split) and had bad reaction. Super anxiety and burning/tingling waves and no appetite. Based on half life I assume this is reaction to .125 2x daily cut I had just ended. Assuming I shouldn't reinstate to that I was thinking .0625 in am and .125 in pm. Does that sound right? If so, should I hold longer than 3 days?

[ChessieCat]

Hi Freeby,

 

Just wondering how you are?  Would love to hear from you.

[Freeby60]

Hellow ChessieCat!

 

It has been a long time since you were wondering how I was doing. You were so helpful, as were so many here. Anyway, I am back after an amazing journey through the Mental Health Industrial Complex. I am now on more meds than when I started here in 2015.  A poly-med cocktail that is completely different than 2016.  I am still standing and I am still tapering. Radical until the damn end! And it may take my entire life, but who cares? I will put all the details down sometime soon. I've been tapering Lexapro with the restrained help of my psychiatrist. But, I have grown into a bold advocate for myself with him. I wasn't able to do that in 2015. Anyway, I am close to the end of my tapering of the Lexapro ~ Yay! And I know I should be here where I can get and give support too. 

 

~ Freeby60 now 62

[Gridley]

On 10/30/2020 at 4:59 PM, Freeby60 said:

I am close to the end of my tapering of the Lexapro

Congratulations on that, Freeby60.  I just finished my Lexapro taper and wanted to make sure you knew that we recommend stopping at a much lower dose than psychiatrists might suggest--somewhere in the 0.00's.  I jumped to zero at 0.025.

 

Gridley

[Freeby60]

7 hours ago, Gridley said:

Congratulations on that, Freeby60.  I just finished my Lexapro taper and wanted to make sure you knew that we recommend stopping at a much lower dose than psychiatrists might suggest--somewhere in the 0.00's.  I jumped to zero at 0.025.

 

Gridley

Thank you Gridley! I am currently at .4 using liquid 5mg/5ml. I am here to make sure I finish the taper safely and appreciate your input. I will be adding all my current meds to my profile tomorrow.

 

 Thank you!

[Freeby60]

At the bottom of my first taper- 3 meds to go

 

Greetings! I am polydrugged from a short visit to psych hospital 2 years this past November 2017. In 2015 I had a very bad withdrawal event that hypersensitized my CNS (I was active on SA at the time) I was the sole wage earner and needed to take short term and then long-term disability from work because I couldn't function. I would wake up and anxiety would be at peak intensity everyday. I was desperate and my Pdoc was willing to play Russian roulette with antidepressants trying a new drug almost weekly which ultimately caused suicide ideation and the hospitalization. Only a week, but of course I came out polydrugged. I held my lexapro taper for awhile then resumed with a monthly taper of 10% which has been steady for 2 years. I tried to make a switch last month to tapering weekly smaller doses but I don't think the change made my CNS very happy. Now I am at .36 mil and tapering 10% of my previous dose to be extra careful. I noticed some occasional short-lived anxiety and agitation, feeling unable to control it at times. With the month when I changed the tapering behind me, I am beginning to feel myself again. I'm considering holding this taper a little longer because of the anxiety and agitation. More than anything else I must avoid becoming hypersensitive again! Any advice, support, words of encouragement appreciated!

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[Freeby60]

Tset

[Freeby60]

Hello! I just updated my signature and want to note that I have held for 2 months because I was feeling mood swings, electric shocks, and twitches along with occasional waves of anxiety. Does anyone know if being on an AD while tapering another AD masks withdrawal at all? Also, once you've tapered too fast from an AD and have protracted withdrawal, does that make you susceptible to having a repeat when you try again years later?

 

Thanks for any information. 

[Gridley]

20 minutes ago, Freeby60 said:

Does anyone know if being on an AD while tapering another AD masks withdrawal at all?

Not necessarily, but it can.

 

21 minutes ago, Freeby60 said:

once you've tapered too fast from an AD and have protracted withdrawal, does that make you susceptible to having a repeat when you try again years later?

 

Not necessarily.  Based on your post, I'm assuming you've emerged from protracted withdrawal at this point.  Your system may still be sensitized from the protracted withdrawal but that doesn't mean you're in for another round of it when you taper again.  I'd recommend a very conservative slow taper to be safe.

[Freeby60]

Gridley,
 

Yes, I emerged from it 3 years prior. It started from a 50% drop of Lexapro. I resumed tapering after and continued over the last 3 years.

 

I will continue to go slow.

 

Is it best to follow how I feel or try to continue a schedule, albeit slow but regular? 

 

Thank you for your response 🙏

[Gridley]

12 minutes ago, Freeby60 said:

Is it best to follow how I feel or try to continue a schedule, albeit slow but regular? 

It's always best to follow how you feel and slow your taper if symptoms increase.  This is the way to taper rather than hold to a set schedule.

[Freeby60]

42 minutes ago, Gridley said:

It's always best to follow how you feel and slow your taper if symptoms increase.  This is the way to taper rather than hold to a set schedule.

Okay. Thank you very much! 

[Freeby60]

My most recent Lexapro drop was 10 days ago. The drop was from .30 ml to .26 ml. The usual 10% of the previous. So far my symptoms have been extremely mild. Except for squirrly legs in the evening, a few moments of anxiety, and sleeping more, I feel good. Mood seems stable this far.

[ChessieCat]

That is good news.

 

Different drugs have different strengths; eg 1mL = 1mg, 1mL = 5mg, 1mL = 10mg.  So that we can see the dose you are taking please state the dose in mg as well as the drug name so there is no confusion about drug and dose.  Thank you.

 

Please edit your drug signature to show mg too.

[Freeby60]

21 hours ago, Freeby60 said:

My most recent Lexapro drop was 10 days ago. The drop was from .30 ml to .26 ml. The usual 10% of the previous. So far my symptoms have been extremely mild. Except for squirrly legs in the evening, a few moments of anxiety, and sleeping more, I feel good. Mood seems stable this far.

.26 ml = .26 mg

[Freeby60]

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

That is good news.

 

Thanks! It sure is  I have made the changes to my signature you requested!

[Freeby60]

I am at 0.15 mg/ml on my taper. I have been holding here for 2 reasons. One, I noticed after this drop an increase in my mild Oral TD. This makes me very nervous. I have also been diagnosed with drug induced Lupus. The only med I take that is among the classes of drugs known to cause this is the Benzo. My GP wants me to taper that next. How long do you recommend waiting between tapers to start titrating the next one?  Thanks!

[Freeby60]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:40 AM, Freeby60 said:

 

I am at 0.15 mg/ml on my taper. I have been holding here for 2 reasons. One, I noticed after this drop an increase in my mild Oral TD. This makes me very nervous. I have also been diagnosed with drug induced Lupus. The only med I take that is among the classes of drugs known to cause this is the Benzo. My GP wants me to taper that next. How long do you recommend waiting between tapers to start titrating the next one?  Thanks!

 

Hello 👋 Can someone please tell me how long to wait between tapers and respond to the above? Thank you!

[ChessieCat]

I let the other mods know that you need assistance.

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature so that we can easily and clearly see your drug history:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Altostrata]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:40 AM, Freeby60 said:

I am at 0.15 mg/ml on my taper.

 

What drug are you tapering? How long have you been at this dose?

 

Exactly what drugs are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages?

 

Did you ever address potential problems of drug interactions with your doctor? Any TD is more likely related to Seroquel, or an interaction of Seroquel with your other drugs that would increase plasma levels of Seroquel.

[Freeby60]

I am tapering lex since 2018

 

AM - lex - 0.13 ml/mg (since 11/28)

clonazapam - 0.05 mg 

duloxetine - 60 mg

probiotic

 

PM - seroquel 25 mg 

Multi Vit

Omegas

 

Yes, TD is related to Seroquel. My GP says clonazepam is the only Med that can cause Positive Histone Antibodies and she wants me to taper when I can.

 

Drug interactions in the drug checker all moderate. 
 

The benzo, Seroquel, and duloxetine all added during psych hospital stay in 2018 Nov. When I asked pdoc about all the drugs, he was unconcerned about polydrugging.