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nz11

Your welcome DC,....oops apologies i now see you already did the drugs checker...

I feel gutted for you that you were 10 months drug free and your doctor then pushed you onto not one but three of these chemicals.

Just keep in mind if you keep gambling your luck may at some stage run out. Anyway be careful out there. Following the tried and tested rec here may remove the luck from the equation.

 

I am sorry your switch to liquid was problematic. Hope you stabilize soon with the move back to tablet.

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DC112

I guess my question is if anybody would recommend the Mayo clinic for this issue.? Obviously emphasizing with them that I want OFF meds the right way?? I'm thinking of going this route!

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ChessieCat

Hi DC112,

 

I can't imagine that they would be able to do anything that can't be done by yourself tapering with the support of SA.

 

CC

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nz11

A gentle reminder DC that its one thread per person in the intros....

 

CC is right.

 

Its running to the med profession that got you in this so difficult position. YOU are the soltn out of this. You and sa. This is it you are on the frontline of tapering info right here.

 

Whats the bet  inspite of your pleas to get off these drugs  you will be talked over and they will no doubt resort to the usual tactic...double the dose!

 

check out this experience

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7294-rach-seeking-professional-help/?hl=%2Bmayo+%2Bclinic

Look at Altos comments in post # 9

Even Mayo doctors know little about withdrawal and tapering.

 

Doing a search on Mayo clinic experiences on this site ....suggests these people may know zip zilch zero about wdl and tapering.

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Altostrata

Welcome, DC.

 

Our members who have gone to the Mayo Clinic haven't found the doctors there to be any help at all for tapering or withdrawal syndrome.

 

(In fact, the Mayo Clinic is still very devoted to the outdated and invalid "chemical imbalance" theory.)

 

I would be very happy to refer everyone there if Mayo was of value.

 

What drugs are you taking now, for how long, and at what dosages? What is your daily symptom pattern? How did you go off Pristiq?

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and copy and paste the results in this topic.
 

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DC112

On my personal thread me and NZ have put my drugs on the symptom checker. I am on gabapentin 300 mg. vibriid 10 mg. and buspar 2.5 mg in morn and at night. I have been buspar for over a year now. Gabapentin for almost a year and viibrid for five months. I got off pristiq about two years ago on a three to four month taper. After I got off I got severe WD.

I would really like to work through this through some clinic of sorts of doc who really believes this.

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nz11

I would really like to work through this through some clinic of sorts of doc who really believes this.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/

 

ok how about ...

Paul Conti, MD, Portland, Oregon

 

or drive/bus/fly/row?/train 13 hours and 23 mins south and go to:

 

Stuart Shipko, MD Pasadena, CA

 

or in San Fran

 

If you happen to see a Moa bird (N.B. Thats Moa not Mayo) on the drive south  let me know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa

 

Last sighting was 1959 a little ways south of Cape Foulwind by some guy called Mr Masport.

 

Good luck.

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KarenB

Merged your two intro topics so all your personal notes are together - as we only have one intro thread per member.

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DC112

Thank you NZ! I don't think I will be making the drive so I won't see the elusive bird. Are there no clinics that deal with this? Is it just the certain docs?

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nz11

As far as i know there are no clinics that deal with this because no-one believes us.  I could be wrong though. Perhaps  drug addiction clinics may be aware of this issue.

 

Then there are those that do acknowledge it, a few individuals like say Kelly Broggan however she appears to have lost the plot big time thinking its all do to with a super-spectacular diet that allows people to get off these drugs. Give me a break Kelly !

 

Pharma indoctrinated doctors blame the patient and not the poison.

 

All research studies basically omitt any form of acknowledgement of withdrawal symptoms erroneously calling it  'relapse' . They totally disregard any differentiating btwn the two

 

And many in the know have been forced to remain silent. Breggin has represented thousands in court in respect of withdrawal and side effects from these drugs GSK and others settling in such a way that plaintiffs can never talk about withdrawal even on the internet.

 

The only organisations that are aware of this appears to be charities....charites that dont take pharma money and have not been silenced like say the Icarus project.

oh yeah Rxisk.org know about it ...but they refer people to sa. so there you are you have come full circle.

 

http://www.theicarusproject.net/article/updated-publication-ordering-and-downloads

 

Checkout this free booklet

http://www.akpress.org/harmreductionguide.html

 

 

So yeah its just the certain docs.   You will need to checkout the list of them ...link above.

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JanCarol

Hey DC, how are you?

 

I've just read your thread, and I'm sorry you've been through so much.  

 

Can you please put your dosages in your signature line?  It is my understanding that you are on  2.5 mg buspar, 300 mg gabapentin, and 10 mg viibryd?

 

If you want to switch to liquid gabapentin, please do as NZ says, and cross taper with the liquid.  Like 75 mg liquid, 225 mg tablet first week, then 150 mg liquid, 150 mg tablet second week, then 225 liquid, 75 tablet third week.  Then hold for a month before reducing dose. 

 

It is my understanding that you are tapering the buspar first?

 

If it were me, I would go for the viibryd next.  The gabapentin will cushion your withdrawals somewhat.  Please see:  

Polydrugs? Taper off the Antidepressant First!

 

Additionally, it sounds like you need to breathe more, I hear a lot of frantic fear and anxiety in your "voice."  These things are difficult to tell over the internet - but - an important part of any tapering plan is - what are you going to do with your wellness?  How will you learn to live without the drugs?

 

For this, please start here: Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

Let us know how you are going?  I hope you see the sun today.

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DC112

Jan

 

Thank you for your concern. I think my writing style is very brief so that is why it may come across as frantic. But yes I do have a lot of fear about this at times. I want to be better. More than anything I have ever wanted. I want to love and feel loved. I want to have a lover this issue can hurt those things that I need the most. I don't know who wouldn't have fear with this. The reality is that I still need to get off three meds. I've only been on viibryd for six months so I think I might start to taper that first. I have an appointment with dc conti"s associate in Portland on jan 12.

 

The problem is I have adverse effects to the meds that I am on so I want off them swifty, but also safely. So I am hoping to eventually implement ten percent reductions at a quicker rate than four weeks. But I just want to do it right with the least amount of suffering. I think we can all say that we have suffered enough!!!

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DC112

Also,

 

I am most likely going in for surgery on my neck, to get it fused. Then I would start the taper after the surgery. I was just wondering if there have been any complications with surgery and withdrawal? With anesthesia. Etc..?

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DC112

Also I my computer has recently kicked the dust and I am not sure how to update my signature on my phone. But to answer your questions, I am on 5 mg total of buspar. 300 mg of gabapentin and 10 mg of vibryd. None helped with withdrawel.

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Fresh

Hi DC112 , this may help you to update your signature. It's hard to keep scrolling up to see where you're at.

 

"Just thought I would mention this for members who are using phones or tablets to view the site. At the bottom of each page is a button to view 'full version'. If you click this you will then be able to view the signatures of posters. In full view you will also be able to add a signature to your posts as outlined above. Scroll up for those instructions.

 

This works on android devices. If you have I-stuff, I am not sure how its browser displays the page so YMMV."

More instructions here

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/page-2?p=116756#entry116756

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DC112

I hope my signature is fixed as I cannot see it. I meet with dr conti's office and they have recommended I start to taper the viibryd first. I have taken my first dose of the taper today and slowly got more depressed as the day went on. Now am feeling very depressed and uneasily unfortunately. Hopefully things will quite down in a couple days from the initial drop.

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SquirrellyGirl

Hi DC112, 

 

I can relate on the feeling of just wanting off the drugs as soon as possible .  I'm sorry that your first cut in Viibryd caused trouble from the get go.  

 

If you go back to nz11's post 46, he put the link for Will Hall's Harm Reduction Guide, and if you haven't looked at it I think that would be very valuable to you.  You can alternatively listen to a video of him discussing what's in the guide here:  

 

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/01/10/comingoffpsychdrugs/

 

I think it is around the 23 minute mark that he really starts talking about going off meds, but prior to that is all very good foundational stuff about the decision-making involved in whether to go off.

 

I just had a listen and I've been at this for awhile!  What is really important in the guide is the need to adjust and re-evaluate as you go along, to be willing to modify your plan.  You may feel very urgent about getting off these meds, but too hasty tapers may tell you otherwise.  You must listen to your nervous system, and I think it told you with the Viibryd that things are happening too quickly!

 

I had a bad protracted WD for 10 months before reinstating Effexor, ended up on Remeron before that happened, so am disgusted with the idea that not only am I back on Effexor, a failed attempt, but now I am also on another notorious AD!  BTW, I tried Viibryd briefly while in protracted withdrawal and it was a disaster!!!  

 

I have felt enough discomfort during even 10% cuts to know that I simply can't go faster, and have even done 5% cuts bi-monthly to ease the symptoms. I know when I get really low in dosages that I will likely have to go even slower to be successful and minimize suffering.  And so the harm-reduction approach.

 

This is a dicey game, scary, yes, because no two people are the same.  I've read so many times of people getting into big trouble because they risked cuts too big or too often, and found themselves unable to get relief from updosing.  So, that is why the recommendation is 10%, for the greater good of most.   It sucks that it has to be so slow - I'm with you on that.  With the alternative being to stay on them the rest of your life, going too slow is the better choice in my book!   :D

 

And do spend some time in the symptoms and self care section boning up on techniques to help you get through the rough patches, because there will be the waves and having those in place is crucial.

 

We're with you and want you to be safe and successful in your goal to come off these meds.

 

SG

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Fresh

Hi DC , congratulations on starting your taper.  

 

What dose of viibryd are you taking now?

 

When you get a chance , please can you update your signature.

It should show when you started each of the meds (with dates) and when you changed doses.

How long have you kept your meds stable before starting this taper?

That way people understand the context of your posts without having to go back and read your whole thread.

 

How long have you kept your meds stable before starting this taper?

 

As the next few days unfold , you know that any changes are related to your decrease.  

You don't need to be fearful , just observe them.  Symptoms are likely to resolve as suddenly as they arrived.

 

Keep calm.  

The fact that for you , there has been a change within hours , doesn't mean this drop is going to be bad.

The quicker they come , the quicker they go , that's how I see it.

 

It might be good to keep notes , it's often hard to recall details later.

 

bw ,  Fresh

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DC112

Thank you both for your responses. I apologize for my brevity in response as I am typing from a phone. My first reduction was ten percent so I am all on board with the harm reduction approach. I haven't made a move in six months on meds. A couple failed attempts l but no moves. I did decrease buspar from ten milligrams to five milligrams very easily about eight months ago.

 

 

Having some tough days after this first cut. The second day was not too bad. Yesterday was ok at times then other times in the day I was feeling unwell. Today I am unfortunately having some problems. Think I gotta just let this new dose (9mg) set in along with the liquid. I think the change to liquid maybe is gonna take an adjustment period as well

 

 

I have a complex issue because my protracted withdrawel is from pristiq over two years ago. But I still have to taper three drugs. Can you heal from the original withdrawel while you are slowly tapering!? Thank you for your respone. The support feels good because this makes me feel so alone. So thanks for the help.

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DC112

I was very agitated yesterday and that was four days after the 10 percent reduction to 9mg of viibryd. I have only been on viibryd for six months. I am having health issues with being on these meds so I need to get off. I just wouldn't think that I would feel like this just after an initial ten percent reduction. Maybe I'm sensitive to the liquid. Maybe I have to give it more time to settle in?

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Altostrata

Your body will be continually adjusting -- healing -- as you reduce drugs.

 

How long have you been using the liquid? How did you make the change from tablets to liquid?

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DC112

That first part is very good to hear

 

I have been using the liquid for five days.

 

I switched directly to liquid from tablet five days ago

 

Thank you for your response!

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DC112

Feeling very unwell after six days on liquid dose. Not sure what to do? Very worried about my future.

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Fresh

I 've missed something . . . . which med is liquid?

 

Lots of members get a wave of symptoms when switching from tablets to liquid , it's metabolized quicker/differently.

Add that to a drop and it's a double insult.

 

It'll pass , just may take longer.

 

:)

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SquirrellyGirl

Did you do a cut when you switched to liquid as well?

 

When you say you are very worried about your future, what do you mean by that?  Are you having thoughts of harming yourself?  Do you have people close to you who know your journey with the meds, know that you are tapering?  Seek their company.

 

If you are feeling suicidal, please seek help outside of this forum.  You are experiencing chemically induced thoughts, and it will pass with time, but please take necessary steps to assure your safety in the meantime :-)

 

Please read the following if you are having such thoughts:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7619-for-those-who-are-feeling-desperate-or-suicidal/

 

SG

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DC112

Fresh

 

I decided under dr Conti's associates advice to taper of the viibryd first. I switched directly to liquid and dropped 10percent when I switched.

 

Squirlly

 

I was more just thinking about my long term options but yes I do deal with those types of thoughts at times. Thank you for your support.

 

I had to start taking the ten my tablet again because I was feeling so horrendous. Gonna call dr conti's office on Monday and come up with a second try. Not sure how to proceed at this point. I already payed 200 bucks for this liquid dose so just stopping this is a huge financial burden.

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SquirrellyGirl

Uh-oh, it is recommended when switching to a liquid form to not cut at the same time since the liquid processes differently and can cause a bobble even at the same dose that you were on in pill form.  You  might try up-dosing to the level you cut from and letting yourself stabilize on the liquid for 3-4 weeks before commencing tapering.

 

SG

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Fresh

Squirrellygirl has a good suggestion:  updose to the 10mg you were taking until Jan.23 , but take it in liquid.

Or , updose to 10mg and take 5mg tablet and 5mg liquid until you stabilize , then switch to all liquid?

 

Allow any symptoms to resolve and your brain to stabilize from this hiccup (4 - 6 weeks).

 

Then when you're ready again to taper , perhaps try a 5% cut as a first test dose.  

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DC112

I have started taking the 10mg liquid. I was wondering how long it 'generally' takes for the liquid to set in and for the body to adjust? As I am having some issues two days in. Hope everyone is well!

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Fresh

It may take several weeks DC.

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SquirrellyGirl

Did you do a cross-over?  I made the mistake of switching straight to a home-made prep of mirtazapine and ran afoul with WD symptoms.  I had to go back to dry cutting and get stabilized.  So, if you are having trouble, you might do the same, and then do a gradual cross-over to the liquid.

 

I am currently doing a cross-over to mirtazapine SolTabs so that I can use them to make a liquid more easily in the future.  Did 3/4 old and 1/4 new for four days, then 1/2 and `/2 for four days, and now on 1/4 old and 3/4 new, probably doing 10 days at that level just to use up most of the old and be sure I'm solid, then go 100% new.  So far so good.  There may be a more acceptable cross-over schedule advised by the mods, but if you are noticing a difference going straight to the liquid you might consider this.

 

SG

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DC112

Oh man. I'm really in a bad spot. I can't tolerate liquid at all. I don't think even a crossover would be worth my time and suffering. A very good compounding pharmacy did my liquid and said there should be no issue with the switch. I might just have to try to cut the tablet as best I can. Cut of one mill then two then three. It might be my only way. I know its not ten percent but I might not have a choice. I literally don't know what to do. The suffering and torture is dehumanizing.

 

I'm felling completely hopeless. I've already been through so much with pristiq protracted withdrawel that I'm not sure I can physically and mentally get off this meds. And I'm having severe issues from being on the meds so I'm in a horrible rock and a hard place. Feeling very scared for my future. Sorry for the bummer report. Hope everyone else is well!

 

I'm thinking of going more severe routes. Getting off everything in a rehab clinic. I'm not sure what options I have at this point. Trying to think practically. At least if I cold turkeyed everything in a clinic I would be off these things.

 

It seems every attempt I make at making any move throws me into a free fall anyway. I guess the worse that could happen is I would maybe risk my life from seizures? But I can't go on like this. Just completely stuck in this severe mud. I have to do something. I need a second chance at life somehow.

 

Is there anybody in the portland on SA? I would like to talk to somebody. Is there somehow to connect? It's just kinda hard not having someone in person to talk to about this!

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Fresh

Please reread the posts above .

This is a repeat episode of when you switched directly to liquid in January.

 

The same advice applies.

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DC112

My nervous system might be too wrecked to ever taper. Even if I switch to liquid properly. Im very scared

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DC112

Should I just try cutting a viibryd in half to do this switch? 5mg of liquid 5mg of tablet? Omit last post!. Was very scared and not feeling well from direct liquid switch.

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Fresh

That's what I would do DC . . . half liquid and half tablets.  You could even do 3/4 tablets (7.5mg) and 1/4 liquid (2.5mg) at first.   Once that's stable , go to 50:50.  Then 1/4 tablets and 3/4 liquid.

 

It's worth thinking about investing $30 in a digital scale so that your tablets are precise.  You're obviously very sensitive , so it will be important that your doses are exact and not bouncing around within a window of even 1mg either way.

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