DC112: struggles after Pristiq

[DC112]

I did not have a good day today. But I'm not sure why. maybe it's still from the last cut, maybe it's a slight change in the pill. It seems to always be something in this mess I have going on.

[DC112]

It's been five weeks since my first 10% cut from gabapentin. The first week was terrible then I was ok for two weeks and now I have been really struggling with bad agitation about a half hour after taking it. It goes off and on all day, then subsides in the ev.

 

Am I not cutting the drug right? Could it be the scale? Could it be my place in Portland that I have come back to after surgery? Something maybe wrong with the counters? I leveled them and they seem good. But it seems like I started struggling again when I started cutting up my pills here. I don't feel like I'm settling in. But I don't want to updose. Maybe Benedryl or hydrozadin could help?

[SquirrellyGirl]

Are you weighing your dose every night or do you pre-weigh a set of doses?

 

I would recommend the latter, using gel caps to put the dosages in.  If you have the Gemini scale, I have found it to be problematic.  It will say zero with the weigh pan on it, but weigh the same dose three times and you can get three different weights.  I have found that, although the scale says "0.000", if you place a 10g weight on it, it won't always read 10.000.  So, my answer to all of this is to calibrate the scale at the beginning of the weighing session, place the 10g weight on the pan, and only proceed if it says 10.000.  You could proceed with 9.999 then subtract 0.001 from the measured weight.   I find it easier to weigh chunks of a tablet rather than all powder, because it is too easy to lose powder along the way.

 

I am trying to get myself relaxed enough to accept a weight if the cal weight weighs true, but sometimes I feel better reweighing the sample a few times before accepting them as being good.  It makes weighing two weeks' worth of doses very time consuming, but then I'm done for two weeks.   Being this exacting may not be necessary at dosages over 200 mg actual weight, but I am weighing 59 mg, and if I want to cut to 57 but the dosage varies +/- 0.002, that's a problem!

 

This may be more detail than you care to know!

 

SG

[KarenB]

Good ideas from SG.  DC, have you made any changes to the other drugs you are taking, and how is your sleep since your 10% reduction?

[Altostrata]

DC, what drugs did you take during and after your surgery? When was the last time you took one of them?

 

Did your problems start after the surgery?

 

It sounds like you have become more sensitive to gabapentin.

[DC112]

SG - I pre weigh about seven days worth.

 

 

My gabapentin only comes in powder. Not sure what you mean about chunks.? Also, I was concerned about losing powder along the way because I put the power on the tray then put it onto a creased paper and funnel it in.

 

Have a better method?

 

I ad 002 to my cut to estimate that I lose that much in the transfer.

 

Update: I'm having severe depression today. I think it is mainly the gabapentin but also might have to do with the possible slight change in my buspar. I think MYLA changed there processing of buspar. I'm really in need of some solid better days soon.

[DC112]

Karen - I have not made any other changes to meds other than gabapentin. My sleep seems fine.

 

Alto - I was under general anethesia during surgery then your basic pain meds. I could only really tolerate Percocet. I didn't take much for that long. I didn't feel any problems from any of this. If anything I was feeling better in recovering. I only started struggling badly when I cut the gabapentin 10%

 

There were no issues with surgery and mentally I felt fine until the cut.

 

Thanks for the responses

 

Dan

[DC112]

Really struggling today

[Altostrata]

General anesthesia can make you more sensitive to drugs, particularly if you're already sensitized by changing dosages.

 

Did you cut gabapentin 10% after the surgery?

[DC112]

Yes. I cut after the surgery. But was feeling fine after the surgery and before the cut. I didn't cut until a month after the surgery.

[DC112]

What does this mean moving forward in terms of the gabapentin and tapering in regards to possible issues with anesthesia? I was told that I reacted very well to anesthesia and felt well after it use.

 

Thanks

[DC112]

Sorry. I don't mean to bother. I just didn't hear a response to this.

[nz11]

I assume the surgery was a once off and not a weekly thing.

Personally i wouldnt worry about it.

It wont change anything in terms of the need to taper slowly as advised on this site. imo

[AliG]

DC. I would think that if you handled it well and don't seem to have any after effects from the anesthetic then that's great and perhaps not worth worrying about anymore . Some are very sensitive to the effects of anesthesia in withdrawal .It can be problematic for some and bring on a wave of symptoms.  Maybe, for you it is indeed a result of the cut and / or perhaps a sensitivity to gabapentin.

 

What amount did you cut ? Maybe, it was a little too much on top of the surgery, even though it was a month after. I would now hold steady for a good while - perhaps a couple of months to let your system fully stabilize from the cut and the surgery. Holding, can help your CNS settle and stabilize after the trauma. Sometimes , any changes at all can be destabilizing and you have had quite a few in succession. Your system could possibly need some gentle / calm right now to recalibrate and find it's new normal.

 

Sometimes , the best thing to do is nothing at all. Perhaps, keep notes on symptoms & see if a pattern emerges.

Ali

[DC112]

I tapered 10%. I felt good and stable before I made the cut, even with recovering from surgery. So I'm not sure if the surgery had anything to do with my difficult cut, but anything is possible.

 

Does a 5% cut produce similar symptoms because the 10% cut really was very difficult and unbearable at times? I'm very concerned with the severe longevity of this process. How would I notice any benefit with five percent cuts.? Is it possible to get a reduction in side effects from a few small cuts? I feel gabapentin makes me dopey and definitely confused with some word finding difficulties.

[DC112]

Don't mean to be a bother, just really looking to understand this issue. I would really appreciate to hear from a moderator

[ChessieCat]

Hi DC,

 

No bother.  That's what we are here for.  Speaking from my own experience (you can see details in my signature) I tried doing a 10% drop but because I got painful ear pressure which I couldn't handle and updosed a small amount.  I have since been tapering >10%.

 

When tapering you need to listen to your body and throw out the calendar.  The aim is to reduce the drug so that it doesn't produce unbearable withdrawal symptoms.  Here are some links on slow tapers.

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases
Rhi's "Start Small, Listen to Your Body" Taper Plan
Slowness of slow tapers

[DC112]

Does anyone know how much the equivalent of 10 mg of viibryd is to pristiq? I was on 50 mg of pristiq and had major problems which lead to me tapering off too quickly.

[DC112]

Does anyone have any knowledge in this?

[nz11]

DC112,

I think that may be a difficult question to answer.

 

There was a study done on equivalent dosages but viibryd is not one in the study

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11108-hayasaka-2015-dose-equivalents-of-antidepressants-evidence-based-recommendations-from-randomized-controlled-trials/

 

All i can do is have a guess.

Let me think about it.

 

Have you thought about venlafaxine/effexor instead of pristiq?

 

It would be great to see start dates and past drugs in your sig. No pressure

[nz11]

Well i confess...i have no idea so your guess would be as good as mine.

 

Viibryd appears to be a new ssri.

 

Can you recall the doctors reasoning for 10mg of viibryd was he trying to replace the 50 of pristiq. or partially replace it.

Maybe he was just guessing too.

 

I tried to think up ways things could be correlated eg molar masses etc but there appears to be no connection that i can see. I can see no logic to this equiv madness!

 

Zoloft has a half life of 26 hours , viibryd's is 25 hrs, could that mean anything?

Prozac comes in 10,20, 40mg so does viibryd. could that mean anything?

 

Im just thinking out loud ...if we can guess the closest drug to viibryd in the study then we can get the dose equiv of effexor and then we can work out the equiv dose of pristiq cos we also know 50mg pristiq is guestimated to be equivalent to between 100mg -150mg of effexor.

 

There seems to be great variation even among ssris eg 18mg lexapro is the equiv of  40 mg prozac =51mg remeron=98 mg zoloft. (though remeron is not an ssri)

 

What exactly are you considering.

I apologize i havent read through your whole thread.

 

Sorry not much help really.

nz11

[ChessieCat]

Hi DC

 

From what I can gather from your posts, you have been off Pristiq for nearly 3 years.  Is this correct?  If so, I am wondering why you want to know what the equivalent is of Viibryd to Pristiq.

[DC112]

Thank you both for the responses

 

I was curious about the dosages because right now I'm stuck on 10 mg of viibryd and am hoping it is effecting me less than 50 mg of pristiq.

 

Also. Is it possible for me to start taking my gabapentin at night. Maybe it will help the dopey feeling?

 

Thanks,

[ChessieCat]

Hi DC,

 

I'll check with the other mods about taking the gabapentin at night.

[Altostrata]

DC, how do you feel on 10mg Viibryd? It's impossible to tell if it's "affecting" you more than Pristiq. Only you can determine that.

 

Yes, if gabapentin is making you dopey, you could gradually move taking it later by an hour or two per day until you are taking it in the evening.

[DC112]

I feel like the 10 mg of viibryd is not my problem at the moment. My problem is Pristiq withdrawel added with side effects from gabapentin.

 

I was ten months off everything after pristiq but because I was in such bad withdrawel the doctors strongly advised I try other types of meds. They were thinking it was not withdrawel obviously.

 

I have some libido issues at times. But it comes and goes. This could be from viibryd. But I think most likely from pristiq withdrawel as it has been an issue since coming off. But it comes and goes. I have a girlfriend and she is very supportive and understanding. I am able to have intimacy in my life right now so I am thankful, even though it's not one hundred percent.

 

I will try to move they gabapentin back every day this week. Then I will make another cut. Maybe five percent?

 

Thanks for the help. This is the most challenging situation I have every dealt with in my 29 years. I am thankful that there are people who understand. I hope to be my whole self again someday soon!!

[DC112]

I moved my gabapentin an hour after my other two meds yesterday and woke up very irritable and uncomfortable. Not sure why this would cause Problems like this?

[scallywag]

It could be coincidence; it could be "simply" that your CNS (central nervous system) is responding to the change in timing.  Give yourself another 2-3 days with the same timing to see if if the irritability and discomfort continue.

[DC112]

I ended up not switching my meds to the evening time right now. I didn't want to deal with issues every hour I moved it back. Will try a 5 % cut soon. Any ideas on afternoon drowsiness? Green tea? Black tea? Something that isn't hard on the nervous system?

[KarenB]

Raw cacao.  Or a nap .

[DC112]

What does one do if the Gemini scale fouls up? It's jumping around up and down .020. Which is significant for me. I calibrate it and it is still doing it. If I wait long enough I can weigh it before it jumps.

 

Also, this seems kinda nerve wracking because what happens if this scale just messes up through my taper or randomly stops working right?

[scallywag]

Some people keep the calibration weight on the scale when they weigh their doses. They report that doing so eliminates some of the inconsistency at lower weights.

[DC112]

Thank u!

 

Also I am wondering how to get some more magnesium and omega three. I need to get it in my food cause the capsules upset my stomach. How about just eating salmon? Would that give me a good amount of omega 3? Also what about just eating foods high in magnesium? Would that work?

[scallywag]

Those questions are likely answered in previous posts in the topics about omega 3 fish oil and about magnesium. You're also likely to find good results on food sources through a google search.

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)
Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

[DC112]

I bought some organic eggs that's say they have 250 mg of Omega 3 in each egg. I also bought some walnuts. Also got some spray that has magnesium and Vit D. Also, I got some Epom salt for baths.

[DC112]

Also, I'm hoping I am using the spray right. It says 4 to 5 sprays on the bottle. Does it matter where I spray on the body? Should I just do this once a day?

 

Thanks.