bigpoppa Scared

[KarenB]

I get those sorts of days every so often - they seem random and I usually put it down to my brain doing some extra healing.  Try to provide your brain with lots of support - rest, soothing bath with epsom salts, protein - especially things like salmon or fish oil.  I know it's horrid while it's happening, but at least you are on a healing pathway.

 

And, where there are downs you know there will eventually be an up .

 

Hang in there,

Karen

[bigpoppa]

Hello friends

 

Another entry in my "journal". I'm hopefullsomeone has had a similar experience.

 

For the past couple of weeks, the following has been happening like clockwork daily. The last time something similar occurred was after a dosage increase before I decided to get off the med school.

 

1. Wake up really groggy feeling like i need my meds. Take med at 815am and eat breakfast

 

2. 825am - 9am feel the meds hitting me (almost like I had a few too many drinks)

 

3. 9am-11am all is great. Feel fine

 

4. 11am-1230pm start getting heightened anxiety and feeling light headed similar to how I felt drunk right after taking my meds. Eat lunch, start feeling less anxiety and dizziness after.

 

5. 1230pm-330pm feel better but not as good as I did for the short morning window. Get minor on and off feelings of heightened anxiety and light headedness.

 

6. 330pm-530pm start getting worse increased anxiety and dizziness again similar to how I did before lunch. Eat dinner, and it becomes better

 

7. 530pm-10pm feel better but small periods of heightened anxiety and a little bit of lightheadedness, but not a lot. About an hour before I go to bed, I start getting a bit of numbness in my hands and feel pretty tired and heavy if that makes sense. Go to bed at 10pm and sleep through the night.

 

Then the vicious cycle repeats.

 

I'm getting pretty down about this. Not to the point where I want to end my life, but to the point where I only fear the next hour, and day. No motivation, nor feelings of any sort really.

 

This is hard.

[kitschywoman]

Heh.  I call it "Groundhog Day" when that happens for me.  I'm finding it happens after a few weeks when I decrease my dose too quickly.  The first time it happened, it was because I'd gone of Sertraline (Zoloft) entirely.  That was last year.  This summer, it was because I'd cut down too quickly.  Only my day goes like this once it kicks in...

 

Wake up early (either at 2 AM or at 4 AM) with "anxiety."  I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that it's probably really akathesia that I'm feeling, although it does tend to make me more prone to anxious thoughts.  Meditation has helped a lot in dealing with the thoughts.  Not so much with the akathesia, which I believe has a physiological component, in my case.  More on that in a moment.

 

Gradually, the akathesia eases off throughout the day.

 

By evening, I feel somewhat to mostly "normal."

 

Go to bed.

 

Wake up early and start the entire process all over again.

 

I'm pretty darned sure this daily cycling has a lot to do with my body's cortisol levels fluctuating throughout the day.  Withdrawal really seems to mess with that, in my case.  I've tested on the very high end of "normal" when going through withdrawal, so science seems to support this theory.

 

As I improve (by reinstating or upping my dose, as I've just done from my dosage cut experiment this summer), the akathesia gradually eases off earlier and earlier in the day.  I also start sleeping later at night.  I'm to the point now where I'm waking up _maybe_ at 4:30 AM and am, more often than not, able to get back to sleep again until at least 6 AM.

 

As much of a pain as it is, I'm starting to recognize this state of withdrawal earlier and deal with it before it gets really bad.  I'm now at 75mg and holding on the Sertraline and am going to start a long, slow taper next Spring.  Should take me about 4 years, give or take a few weeks.  Wish I'd learned about this process a long time ago, but I consider myself fortunate that reinstating/updosing has worked well for me and that I've only got one med to deal with.  I've also learned that I can get by on surprisingly little sleep, although it is not pleasant.

 

I should add that my supervisor at work is male and has been on what he calls a "low dose" of Prozac for as long as I've been on antidepressants.  He says when he has problems they get worse as the day goes on.  So he's a bit like you in that regard.  I'm also fortunate in that a few key people in my workplace know about my problem and are very understanding about it.

[KarenB]

Hi Bigpoppa,

 

As I read through your list I noticed that meals may be helping you feel less dizzy and anxious.  Do you eat morning and afternoon tea?  Perhaps could be worth trying smaller meals more often or something. 

 

Actually 11am is a 'down-time' for people in general, not just those of us on SSRIs.  I've been eating lunch at 11am for years now, and find it works much better for me than waiting till 'proper' lunch time.  

 

I am on Effexor too and I had a lot of dizziness before I even started tapering.  What I did was split my dose into equal morning and evening doses, and take them pretty much exactly 12 hours apart.  It did relieve things a bit, not totally, but I still felt it was worth it.   

 

It's good you are settling on that dose for a while - how long since you did that last reduction?  I imagine your body is still adapting to the latest level of Effexor.  My dizziness in general has been decreasing as the amount of meds in my system has decreased. 

 

I hope you find some relief soon, two weeks is a long haul for you.

Karen

[bigpoppa]

Heh.  I call it "Groundhog Day" when that happens for me.  I'm finding it happens after a few weeks when I decrease my dose too quickly.  The first time it happened, it was because I'd gone of Sertraline (Zoloft) entirely.  That was last year.  This summer, it was because I'd cut down too quickly.  Only my day goes like this once it kicks in...

 

Wake up early (either at 2 AM or at 4 AM) with "anxiety."  I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that it's probably really akathesia that I'm feeling, although it does tend to make me more prone to anxious thoughts.  Meditation has helped a lot in dealing with the thoughts.  Not so much with the akathesia, which I believe has a physiological component, in my case.  More on that in a moment.

 

Gradually, the akathesia eases off throughout the day.

 

By evening, I feel somewhat to mostly "normal."

 

Go to bed.

 

Wake up early and start the entire process all over again.

 

I'm pretty darned sure this daily cycling has a lot to do with my body's cortisol levels fluctuating throughout the day.  Withdrawal really seems to mess with that, in my case.  I've tested on the very high end of "normal" when going through withdrawal, so science seems to support this theory.

 

As I improve (by reinstating or upping my dose, as I've just done from my dosage cut experiment this summer), the akathesia gradually eases off earlier and earlier in the day.  I also start sleeping later at night.  I'm to the point now where I'm waking up _maybe_ at 4:30 AM and am, more often than not, able to get back to sleep again until at least 6 AM.

 

As much of a pain as it is, I'm starting to recognize this state of withdrawal earlier and deal with it before it gets really bad.  I'm now at 75mg and holding on the Sertraline and am going to start a long, slow taper next Spring.  Should take me about 4 years, give or take a few weeks.  Wish I'd learned about this process a long time ago, but I consider myself fortunate that reinstating/updosing has worked well for me and that I've only got one med to deal with.  I've also learned that I can get by on surprisingly little sleep, although it is not pleasant.

 

I should add that my supervisor at work is male and has been on what he calls a "low dose" of Prozac for as long as I've been on antidepressants.  He says when he has problems they get worse as the day goes on.  So he's a bit like you in that regard.  I'm also fortunate in that a few key people in my workplace know about my problem and are very understanding about it.

Thanks Kitschy. Its comforting to know Im not the only one, however, not comforting to know that you must also experience this. Groundhog day, ha! I've thought many times about increasing my dosage a bit, but I feel like I would then just be going backwards. Im pretty stubborn so I am trying to see if I can tough this out.

[bigpoppa]

Hi Bigpoppa,

 

As I read through your list I noticed that meals may be helping you feel less dizzy and anxious.  Do you eat morning and afternoon tea?  Perhaps could be worth trying smaller meals more often or something. 

 

Actually 11am is a 'down-time' for people in general, not just those of us on SSRIs.  I've been eating lunch at 11am for years now, and find it works much better for me than waiting till 'proper' lunch time.  

 

I am on Effexor too and I had a lot of dizziness before I even started tapering.  What I did was split my dose into equal morning and evening doses, and take them pretty much exactly 12 hours apart.  It did relieve things a bit, not totally, but I still felt it was worth it.   

 

It's good you are settling on that dose for a while - how long since you did that last reduction?  I imagine your body is still adapting to the latest level of Effexor.  My dizziness in general has been decreasing as the amount of meds in my system has decreased. 

 

I hope you find some relief soon, two weeks is a long haul for you.

Karen

Hi Karen, thank you. Morning and afternoon tea- I'm assuming that would mean a snack! Thats actually a great idea. Im going to try it tomorrow.

 

This is my first reduction ever. I was on 75mg for years. In June, my doc added another 37.5mg. It was hell for three months. That seems to have started all of this. So, 7 weeks ago now, I cut out the additional 37.5mg. Seeing as though I had only been on the increased dose for 3 months, I figured that I would be ok. So for 7 weeks now, I have been on 75mg. Shouldn't I have levelled off by now? In other words- shouldn't I have no more withdrawl and be ready for another reduction... I will definitely only reduce by 10 percent next, I just dont feel Im ready.

[KarenB]

Ha ha yes, definately snacks . 

 

I'm just a beginner here myself, but here's what I reckon (mods please jump in and correct me as needed ).  Three months was more than long enough on the increased dose for you to need to taper it properly, especially since your nervous-system was already quite unsettled.  And considering that, 7 weeks isn't really that long. 

 

I'm basing this on my experience of tapering 10%, then waiting through 8 weeks of horrible withdrawal-symptoms, then a further 4 weeks of minimal symptoms till I felt settled enough to make another taper.  Your reduction was much more than 10%.  The levelling off will happen, just later than you've been expecting.  I know the waiting game is horrible - all you can really do right now is soothe and nourish yourself and your brain for maximum healing.

 

You're on the right path, just keep your head up a bit longer, it feels great when you get through it.

Hugs,

Karen    

[bigpoppa]

Ha ha yes, definately snacks . 

 

I'm just a beginner here myself, but here's what I reckon (mods please jump in and correct me as needed ).  Three months was more than long enough on the increased dose for you to need to taper it properly, especially since your nervous-system was already quite unsettled.  And considering that, 7 weeks isn't really that long. 

 

I'm basing this on my experience of tapering 10%, then waiting through 8 weeks of horrible withdrawal-symptoms, then a further 4 weeks of minimal symptoms till I felt settled enough to make another taper.  Your reduction was much more than 10%.  The levelling off will happen, just later than you've been expecting.  I know the waiting game is horrible - all you can really do right now is soothe and nourish yourself and your brain for maximum healing.

 

You're on the right path, just keep your head up a bit longer, it feels great when you get through it.

Hugs,

Karen    

Wow, horrible withdrawl for 8 weeks from only a 10% taper? How do you cope with the fear of it happening again on your next 10% reduction?

[KarenB]

Sorry, didn't mean to scare you, just show that it can take longer than you'd expect.  I did go through a time of being very upset and angry and scared at being in that situation, so spent a lot of time reading about micro-tapers.  I decided to do 1% tapers, and that was still too much.  I have found great success and very minimal symptoms by doing 0.4% tapers each week for a month (which I'm now half way through) and then stabilising a month. 

 

I don't expect many people to have to go this slow (I'm the only one I know of) and the most likely scenario is that you'll be like the majority of 10% taperers and do just fine. 

 

I consider myself a turtle-taperer with prickles in my feet...  However at this gentle pace I can function pretty well, am pretty happy, and able to be a fairly good mum to my girls.  The key is to find the rate that works for you - your tapering sweet-spot. 

[LexAnger]

Karen, glad you found the rate that works for you! Crazy drug! 04% at your relatively high dose! I have been doing 0.8% cut holding for 2 weeks but got a terrible hit the last round down to 3.2mg. I'm still suffering many new and severe symptoms and holding. The real key I now think is not to get your systems too sensitized along the watch of tapering. I was functional at 40-50% even with various symptoms until this round, almost like an acute WD. I guess it's also from the cumulative effect from the previous cut as I never really stabilized. Your long holding each month is a good strategy to prevent the cumulative WD effect. I'm thinking a very long hold this time before next cut hopefully things can move more bearable.

 

Also, I'm happy for you being off lexapro. It's the most powerful ssir and also has the most dangerous side effect.

[bigpoppa]

Thank God for fish oil! As advised by a few people here, and taking into account a link regarding EPA and DHA Alto sent me, I started taking fish oil a few days ago. Wow! I felt symptom relief the first day, and have been now for 3 days! Even if it's a placebo, it has been working!

[Altostrata]

Hurray!

[bigpoppa]

Hi Everyone, apologies, I have not been on in a while. I have been dealing with my young one starting daycare, and the germs he keeps bringing home to my wife and I!

 

My current status:

 

Still on 75mg of effexor daily. My last dramatic increase and decrease which was suggested by my doc was about 6 months ago now and I still dont feel right. However, I do feel better than I did months ago. It seems to take a LONG time. Because I dont feel quite "right" yet, I am not going to start another taper just yet.

 

Supplements I am currently taking:

 

Fish Oil and Vit D

 

This has been a staple for months, and I feel it helps simply level me out a little

 

Adreset

 

This is a new one suggested by my Naturopath, and I have been on it a couple months now. This one is interesting. Perhaps the one thing that I have noticed the biggest difference with. Its main ingredient is Cordyceps. It seems to tame the adrenal glands and assist in lowering cortisol levels. My "fight or flight" feelings I often get are nearly gone.

 

Unfortunately, the daily lightheaded feeling/dizziness is still there. As well as just a general feeling of fatigue, non motivated feeling, and a foggy feeling. I find it hard to focus/concentrate and have an engaging conversation with someone.

 

So, it appears the the really intense bad feelings have been tamed down, but overall not much improvement.

 

After 6 months, Im seriously wondering if things will ever be "fixed". I really have to be careful as I keep having thoughts of driving my car off the highway everyday on my way home. Rationally thinking I would never do this, but it's tough to not think like that most days.

[buggedout]

Hi bigpoppa,

 

First off, I used to live in Manitoba. Swan River to be exact! That was a little over 10 years ago. Now I am in Tennessee, but I'll be returning to Canada in a few weeks, to Ontario.

 

Second, good call on the fish oil! That stuff is pure brain nutrients, while the effexor is brain poison! It really helps.

 

Anyways, I too am tapering off effexor. It can become very discouraging at times, and irrational thoughts are no fun. Since weaning, I find myself becoming super paranoid about my health, almost as if I've turned into some sort of hypochondriac or something. Whenever I get any type of symptom or discomfort, I become paranoid that it's something fatal. From headaches, to stomach aches, coughing, small rashes, and lately I've convinced myself that I'm having trouble breathing. It's become an obsessive thought but I know deep down nothing is wrong with me. Sometimes I'll forget the obsessive thought for a couple hours and then I reassure myself that everything is fine and it's all in my head.

 

The important thing is to become aware of your symptoms. Observe them, but don't become them. Even the dark thoughts we experience, remind yourself that it's not you, it's this poison our doctors have stuck us on. And that it does indeed pass. And it takes time, years for some, but it's possible to pull through it if you don't give up.

 

I don't like to give too much advice, since I am still pretty new to this myself. But I'd suggest taking a multi-vitamin as well. I believe in a lot of cases, anxiety and depression are caused by deficiencies, but we don't always know what we're deficient in, so the multi-vitamin will help cover all the basis. Also, I've found exercise to really help with fatigue and the overall zombie feeling. Specifically resistance training. I know it's hard to find motivation, and I still struggle to get myself into the gym as much as I would like, but I can assure you, the times that I do, I walk out feeling SO much better.

 

Also, I know this may be common sense for most of us effexor users, and it may be something you are already on top of... but it's imperative that the pill gets taken at the same precise time every day. I personally notice a difference if I am even 15 minutes late. Last week, I was late a couple days in a row, and that caused me to be dizzy and have a couple nights of really bad insomnia.

 

You are lucky to only be on one drug, as am I. Makes things much simpler and makes it easier to identify and recognize symptoms.

 

Keep up the good work. Good luck to you. I'll be following.

[bigpoppa]

Hi bigpoppa,

 

First off, I used to live in Manitoba. Swan River to be exact! That was a little over 10 years ago. Now I am in Tennessee, but I'll be returning to Canada in a few weeks, to Ontario.

 

Second, good call on the fish oil! That stuff is pure brain nutrients, while the effexor is brain poison! It really helps.

 

Anyways, I too am tapering off effexor. It can become very discouraging at times, and irrational thoughts are no fun. Since weaning, I find myself becoming super paranoid about my health, almost as if I've turned into some sort of hypochondriac or something. Whenever I get any type of symptom or discomfort, I become paranoid that it's something fatal. From headaches, to stomach aches, coughing, small rashes, and lately I've convinced myself that I'm having trouble breathing. It's become an obsessive thought but I know deep down nothing is wrong with me. Sometimes I'll forget the obsessive thought for a couple hours and then I reassure myself that everything is fine and it's all in my head.

 

The important thing is to become aware of your symptoms. Observe them, but don't become them. Even the dark thoughts we experience, remind yourself that it's not you, it's this poison our doctors have stuck us on. And that it does indeed pass. And it takes time, years for some, but it's possible to pull through it if you don't give up.

 

I don't like to give too much advice, since I am still pretty new to this myself. But I'd suggest taking a multi-vitamin as well. I believe in a lot of cases, anxiety and depression are caused by deficiencies, but we don't always know what we're deficient in, so the multi-vitamin will help cover all the basis. Also, I've found exercise to really help with fatigue and the overall zombie feeling. Specifically resistance training. I know it's hard to find motivation, and I still struggle to get myself into the gym as much as I would like, but I can assure you, the times that I do, I walk out feeling SO much better.

 

Also, I know this may be common sense for most of us effexor users, and it may be something you are already on top of... but it's imperative that the pill gets taken at the same precise time every day. I personally notice a difference if I am even 15 minutes late. Last week, I was late a couple days in a row, and that caused me to be dizzy and have a couple nights of really bad insomnia.

 

You are lucky to only be on one drug, as am I. Makes things much simpler and makes it easier to identify and recognize symptoms.

 

Keep up the good work. Good luck to you. I'll be following.

Swan River! Awesome. I near Portage La Prairie. 

 

Thanks for the encouragement. That alone helps. I will give the multi vitamin a try. Do you get fatigued/dizzy much?

[Fresh]

Remember when you're taking anything new , there's always a risk that you may become over-stimulated and have

symptoms flare up.  If you take  multivitamin , you won't know which ingredient you're reacting to.  many people find the b-vitamins don't agree with them.

 

See the link on Multivitamin Tips here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4220-multivitamin-tips/?hl=multivitamins

 

If you go through the Symptoms section , there are many specific supplements you may want to consider individually , with discussions about each on it's own thread.

[bigpoppa]

I read recently that apparently there can be a substantial difference in the way one reacts to the Wyeth brand name Effexor XR and generic Velafaxine. I decided to try it out. All I can say is wow. Fingers crossed.... I am feeling a big difference in the severity of side effects. The only negative so far is I feel slightly more "dopey". I'd be interested to know if anyone else has felt like this.