How to find a good therapist

[annej]

There has been some discussion on how to find a counselor (therapist). I like John Breeden's work. I don't know if this has already been posted, but if not, here it is:

 

How to find a Counselor (therapist) Hugs, Annej

[Barbarannamated]

I have not read alot of his work, but do like what I've read. He gets into family systems and emphasizes relationship of therapist and client. I've needed someone who encourages me to DIG. Doesn't dig or interpret for me, but provoked me to look at things differently than I have in the past which obviously wasn't working out for me.

 

While 'blame the parents' has gotten a bad rap, I believe there is value to looking at familial patterns where our own coping mechanisms and response patterns took root. Mine are longstanding and evident throughout my life and in several family members.

 

In others' stuations where an event triggered an acute mood episode (grief, for example) that was medicated as depression, the family patterns might not be as influential.

 

I have a few friends who are trained therapists and, frankly, they frighten me. One recently mentioned that her husband was getting physically aggressive with her teenage sons and she had to step in (not the first time). She stays in the marriage for religious reasons. She is a child therapist working with disadvantaged youth in the school system. I would not want her counseling my kids, especially daughters.

Breeding wrote something about the therapist's own life that triggered this thought. I believe that is something that bothered me about the therapist-client relationship -- the therapist is not to divulge any personal details. In the peer relationship, that is the basis of the relationship: shared experiences.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[alexjuice]

This guy is in my area code. I remember calling him when I was in early w/d about 2 yrs ago. I don't think we spoke though. I think I just left a message.

 

I am investigating a therapist who has worked with benzo w/d cases. I have a good feeling about him, the benzo compassionate guy.

 

Interestingly, on Breeding, it seems like I should know, from my years in group therapy, one of his clients. Seems I should've heard ome feedback, but I never did... I've heard of Breeding on the Internet but not on the ground here in Texas.

[GiaK]

John is a great guy and became a friend via my contact with him because of the blog...

 

if you all haven't seen this article by him it's well worth visiting...I've posted and reposted it on the blog...once a year it's so good:

 

Drug Withdrawal and Emotional Recovery

http://beyondmeds.com/2011/11/21/withdrawalrecovery/

 

I should probably post that somewhere on this site for easy reference....

[annej]

This guy is in my area code. I remember calling him when I was in early w/d about 2 yrs ago. I don't think we spoke though. I think I just left a message.

 

I am investigating a therapist who has worked with benzo w/d cases. I have a good feeling about him, the benzo compassionate guy.

 

Interestingly, on Breeding, it seems like I should know, from my years in group therapy, one of his clients. Seems I should've heard ome feedback, but I never did... I've heard of Breeding on the Internet but not on the ground here in Texas.

 

Hi Alex,

 

Can I ask who the name of the therapist who has worked with benzo w/d cases? I don't need to tell you how difficult it is to find a therapist, let alone anyone, who is familiar with benzo and/or AD withdrawal syndrome. Thanks in advance. Hugs, Annej

[annej]

John is a great guy and became a friend via my contact with him because of the blog...

 

if you all haven't seen this article by him it's well worth visiting...I've posted and reposted it on the blog...once a year it's so good:

 

Drug Withdrawal and Emotional Recovery

http://beyondmeds.com/2011/11/21/withdrawalrecovery/

 

I should probably post that somewhere on this site for easy reference....

 

Thanks GiaK for posting this. John Breeden is to be commended for his work on this subject. :)Hugs, Annej

[annej]

I have not read alot of his work, but do like what I've read. He gets into family systems and emphasizes relationship of therapist and client. I've needed someone who encourages me to DIG. Doesn't dig or interpret for me, but provoked me to look at things differently than I have in the past which obviously wasn't working out for me.

 

While 'blame the parents' has gotten a bad rap, I believe there is value to looking at familial patterns where our own coping mechanisms and response patterns took root. Mine are longstanding and evident throughout my life and in several family members.

 

In others' stuations where an event triggered an acute mood episode (grief, for example) that was medicated as depression, the family patterns might not be as influential.

 

I have a few friends who are trained therapists and, frankly, they frighten me. One recently mentioned that her husband was getting physically aggressive with her teenage sons and she had to step in (not the first time). She stays in the marriage for religious reasons. She is a child therapist working with disadvantaged youth in the school system. I would not want her counseling my kids, especially daughters.

Breeding wrote something about the therapist's own life that triggered this thought. I believe that is something that bothered me about the therapist-client relationship -- the therapist is not to divulge any personal details. In the peer relationship, that is the basis of the relationship: shared experiences.

 

Just a few thoughts.

 

I share your views with respect to 99.9% of the therapists I have seen. I believe that peer-led recovery is going to be huge in recovery circles. Hugs, Annej

[fefesmom]

Thanks for the reference to the article by John Breeding: Drug Withdrawal and Emotional Recovery. I just skimmed and printed it; will read it carefully. It seems like wonderfully realistic, caring and practical. Thanks again. FM

[alexjuice]

 

This guy is in my area code. I remember calling him when I was in early w/d about 2 yrs ago. I don't think we spoke though. I think I just left a message.

 

I am investigating a therapist who has worked with benzo w/d cases. I have a good feeling about him, the benzo compassionate guy.

 

Interestingly, on Breeding, it seems like I should know, from my years in group therapy, one of his clients. Seems I should've heard ome feedback, but I never did... I've heard of Breeding on the Internet but not on the ground here in Texas.

 

Hi Alex,

 

Can I ask who the name of the therapist who has worked with benzo w/d cases? I don't need to tell you how difficult it is to find a therapist, let alone anyone, who is familiar with benzo and/or AD withdrawal syndrome. Thanks in advance. Hugs, Annej

 

I was recently referred to him by a guy coming out of bad benzo w/d... I haven't even talked to the therapist yet myself so I need to meet the guy first, verify what I've heard.

 

But after I get some more information, I'll let you know.

 

Best,

Alex

[Altostrata]

Don't forget to post in our Recommended doctors, etc. topic (in Tapering).

[alexjuice]

I will do so though I believe he's only n LPC so not as useful as a doc.

[mammaP]

I have been on the waiting list to see a psychologist for about 4-5 YEARS!! Today I 

received a letter saying I will be given an appointment in the next few weeks.

What can I expect? Has anyone any advice or recommendations? 

My psychiatrist thought at the time that it would help me to come to terms with and

accept my disabilities and also to remove suicide as an option when I get really low

and feel it's the only way to go. Also I have become reclusive and not good with social

situations. 

 

Now I am wondering if it is a good thing while in withdrawal or not and I am very nervous of it.

 I absolutely do not want to and will not start delving into my past again,been there done that

and suffered the consequences.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

[GiaK]

mamma...the thing is that this person is being randomly assigned to you...so be very cognizant of that fact and if it's not a fit walk out the door pronto. finding the right therapist is every bit as tricky as finding the right spouse. 

 

a lot of psychologists (most) know nothing about psych med withdrawal and it's very possible they could misinterpret everything you are dealing with...if this is what happens and you are vulnerable to their opinion it could be harmful...

 

so just walk in there with your eyes open and trust your gut...some of us have found wonderful people to help us through this nightmare...and a lot of us, too, have been harmed by others in the role of "helper"

 

trust your gut....that's all I can say...and don't hesitate to walk away...psychologists often have a way of making people feel guilty about doing that...don't let that happen.

 

I've written about this a bit here: healing journey — part 1 (brief thoughts from this morning to a friend)

 http://beyondmeds.com/2012/09/28/healing-journey-brief-thoughts-from-this-morning-to-a-friend-unedited/

 

and especially this one: Part 2, healing journey: Attn: mental health professionals of all stripes http://beyondmeds.com/2012/10/01/to-mental-health-professionals/  

 

Good luck...when we do find people we can talk to it can be a great blessing. 

[compsports]

mammaP,

 

Several years ago, I briefly saw a psychologist for career counseling who was very supportive of my withdrawal issues. If I had seen her for therapy, there is not question in my mind she would have been helpful.

 

But I have the sense that she is the exception and not the rule.  I agree with GiaK about going in with your eyes wide open. Please let us know what happens.

 

CS

[Barbarannamated]

I strongly agree with what Gia has said.

 

Also, many psychologists are very pro-drugs (some trying to get prescribing rights). Just something to be aware of.

[Finn]

My psychiatrist thought at the time that it would help me to come to terms with and

accept my disabilities and also to remove suicide as an option when I get really low

and feel it's the only way to go.

 

You'd have to be very careful how you word this. In the States now, with all the panic around mental health issues, doctors are going to be more jumpy toward shoving and drugging anyone who mentions that kind of despair--never mind that you come honestly looking for real help.

 

Personally, I have had mixed experiences with psychologists--one really hurt me, another was neutral and two were helpful.

 

The one who really hurt me knew me for all of an hour and diagnosed me as "not that different than a normal girl." Trust me, telling an already traumatized and ostracized eccentric young person that will scare them for years and year. For years, I couldn't think of those words without crying, and everything I did, I triple-checked to see how "normal" it was. I was around 11 or 122 then, I think.

 

When I was 18, I had my next run in. It was more or less neutral. It probably helped a little, but what really helped me at the time was being away from home at college and experiencing new things and personal growth. The psych accused me of being avoidant, and yeah, as a 18/9 year old, I didn't want to deal with past crap as much as I wanted to be comfortable in the present.

 

The two who helped me were both at my school. The first I went to see because I was very anxious because I was in the process of coming out and was going to be spending the next semester living in Europe. The second was my final semester. She was the best psych I saw ever. I felt validated and hopeful talking to her. She even told me that depression didn't need to be a lifelong thing, but never the less, I shouldn't be frustrated that I kept having to deal with it. I think there was another one I saw freshman year too at the medical center, but he just accused me of being suicidal so I ran out of there and never went back.

 

Last year, I saw a few psychs, trying to find one who could help, but I never felt satisfied. I just feel like for the most part, I've helped myself more than they ever did...They weren't all pro-med, though. One told me that exercise was more effective than antidepressants. She was the one who sent me to the first psychiatrist ironically but only because I was sort of in an acute crisis. 

 

But seriously...you know there's a huge problem with mental health systems when people who have been hurt by them have to discuss the benefits and harms of using it.

[mammaP]

Thanks everyone and thanks for the links, they are very interesting. When the doc referred me

we had a conversation about suicidal thoughts, I said that when they pop up I tell them "not

today"  and that I know tomorrow they will be gone. He said he was referring me to change the way I think.

I haven't had them for a long long time until recently and think it's due in a large part to withdrawal. It feels very 

much like when I was put on paroxetine, it was an obsession at that time and something I was driven to do.

Thankfully that went when the med was changed. When the depression or whatever it is lifts I think very differently

and feel terribly guilty for thinking about it. It goes against everything I believe in but when I'm in that state I feel

useless and a burden on society, and that everyone would be better off if I wasn't around. I imagine my family getting

on with their lives happy that I'm away. Also being disabled has hit me hard when I used to be very active and was

a dancer in my youth. I keep looking for ways to overcome it when acceptance is the way to go, or so I'm told. 

Then I have  my daughter telling me to stop accepting it and get out for a walk! I really wish I could, I walked

everywhere before my body started to crumble! She just wants a normal mum like everyone else. 

 

I love that I can say this stuff here and not be judged or led off in a strait jacket! I'm not suicidal now and would love

to not feel that way ever again but I'm scared that he/she will not hear me correctly. What is in my head is not always what 

spills from my mouth, another effect of ADs . Quite often things are taken much different to what I mean, which brings me

to the social isolation. I find it so hard it's painful. I'm ok with family and very close friends but even then things come 

out wrong and afterwards I'm squirming with embarassment. I find myself constantly over explaining things . I never used

to be like this, I had lots of friends and could hold my own socially. 20 years of ect and pills have pickled and fried my

poor brain. I have to phone to accept or reject the offer of an appointment. I'm already down as non compliant with 

my mental health medication because I refused to take several because of side effects.  So far psychiatry has done me

no favours at all and I am not even sure I want this now I've learned so much here.

[Rhiannon]

MammaP, I was suicidal on and off, mostly on, for the whole 20 years I was on psych drugs. Paroxetine was especially bad for this, it became practically an obsession. I've talked to Gia about this and she says it's very common among people taking psych meds and in withdrawal from them, and that it almost always goes away as you get off the drugs and recover from the withdrawal.  

 

In my case the worst of it eased off during the first year of my taper, and then it went away completely in the second year. I am now less suicidal than I have been in 22 years. I am certain in my case that it was the drugs and the withdrawal.

[GiaK]

oh! I have a post that discusses the issue of feeling suicidal on meds...

 

here: http://beyondmeds.com/2011/02/23/withdrawlesssuicide/

 

it's a long post but includes the comments of MANY readers who found that once they were eliminating drugs and especially once free of drugs they never felt suicidal again...

 

it's a very powerful collection of statements...

 

hang on! it gets better

[mammaP]

THANK YOU Rhi and Gia, I am crying here because just hours after posting my last post I was feeling suicidal again.

It is overwhelming, so much that I went to bed and hid under the duvet for almost 2 days. Sleeping fitfully and waking up

thinking I was dead and cheated because it wasn't the nothingness I expected! It was several minutes before I knew 

what was happening, I didn't even know what day it was, and I han't overdosed to feel like that   . It means such a lot to know it isn't me and will get better.

[mammaP]

I have decided that now is not the time to be spilling all to a psychologist, especially one

on the NHS. I read the leaflet that came and it said that sessions are completely confidential

but they will report to my gp on how things are progressing. It said that they will contact my

psych team if they believe me to be a danger to myself or others. 

I've no doubt they will not believe that drugs and withdrawal can cause suicidal thoughts

and would insist it's depression that has taken hold.  Things change by the hour too so

what I feel in the morning might not be the same in the afternoon so I'm going to leave

well alone for now.  Thank you for helping me to make that decision, it's just a shame that it 

came now, after 4 + years of waiting! 

[mammaP]

My appointment with the psychologist was today and after deciding one way then another I thought I'd go 

and see what happened but be very wary. It was fine......better than I could have imagined! She is quite young

so not so set in her ways I suppose. I told her I was tapering and she was interested, she said it is a very

sensible thing to taper slowly. I told her about this site and she was interested in how it works and was impressed

by what I told her saying it sounds very supportive.  

 

It's early days and just assessment for the first sessions to see  if we get along and see if she can help. She deals

mainly with CBT . I told her that I am feeling much clearer now I am almost off meds but I have years of catching

up to do socially and need help with social anxiety.  I told her I will not be divulging my past to her, I don't want to go

there, and she agreed with me, saying that it's here and now, and moving into the future that we will be dealing with. 

 

I did tell her that I have suicidal thoughts and that I deal with them by telling myself 'not today' . She thought that was a

good way of dealing with it! When I told the psychiatrist the same thing he referred me to psychology to 'change the way you think' .

 

Looking like it might be ok for me after all. 

[GiaK]

great! good luck moving forward 

[Altostrata]

Personally, I would never discuss "suicidal thoughts" with any mental health professional or doctor, ever. In the US, they're legally required to take action, possibly hospitalization, where you will be forcibly drugged. And I've come to believe that my innermost thoughts are none of their business!

 

When you want emotional support, the best you can expect from a psychotherapist is emotional support. If the therapist makes you feel in any way bad about yourself or stressed by the sessions, that therapist is not the right one for you.

 

As for changing thought patterns, you might discuss other issues with the therapist and see if she gives you guidance that you find comforting or helpful. If not, think of your sessions as an opportunity for a friendly, but not particularly meaningful, chat.

[mammaP]

Sorry Alto I missed your post there. I am very careful what I say to 'professionals', even my gp when it comes to 

depression and thoughts/feelings.  I  had my second appointment today and found it helpful. I've been in a dilemma 

about moving and she helped me to see how to make the decisions without suggesting what I should do or pointing 

me in any direction but said that whatever decision I make has to be the right one for ME, not everyone else. 

 

I am also trying to get across the message about tapering and anti depressants not helping. I am spreading

the word, lol. 

[Trfielder]

I'm new here so sorry if I offend anyone. My daughter is going through University to be a psychologist..she plans on becoming a Dr. When anyone asks why not a psychiatrist her answer is always to try to help people through without medication...give each professional a chance . If you are worried about what to say spend time before appts and make a list. If you are not comfortable discussing things maybe come back to it later..but if you don't tell them how do you expect them to help without knowing the whole story? I realize i don't your whole story but please give her your help to help you.i apologize if I'm way out of line but I'm finding closed minds don't see the light..

[mammaP]

Thank you Trfielder, please don't apologise, all thoughts are welcome. I'm afraid that many here have bad experiences with

some in the psychriatric department so are very wary. It's great that your daughter wants to help people without giving meds

and I'm sure she will be an excellent psychologist who will help many people. 

 

Some have been forcibly drugged when suicide has been discussed and I was sectioned in hospital several times when I was suicidal.

Of course that seemed the right way to go for the doctors and my family at the time but initially all I needed was TLC and understanding

following traumatic events in quick succession. Instead I was sectioned and given paroxetine which made me obsessed with suicide.

This was quickly followed by more drugs, ECT and several hospitalisations where all rights are stripped away. 

 

The small print on my introduction letter states that the psychologist will refer to my psychiatrist when they feel intervention is needed

so I will be on my guard because I know that I do have suicidal thoughts while withdrawing. BUT I know where they are coming from,

which makes a tremendous difference and means I can deal with them .

If I were to tell her I was feeling that way I  have no way of knowing if she will pass it on to my psychiatrist and I could end up

hospitalised again . The lady I've seen is new and for now seems very good at her job so I'm happy to continue. 

Psychologists as far as I know tend to go the non drug route and should be available to everyone as a first contact. Unfortunately

there is a very long waiting list here in the UK, I was waiting 5 YEARS!! In the meantime it's GPs and psychiatrists who are inevitably 

seen and drugs prescribed, then starts the merry go round which I am absolutely NOT going on again......EVER! 

My grandaughter is also studying psychology and wants to make a difference without drugs, I just hope that they are allowed to do

what they believe is right and really help people who need them. 

[Trfielder]

I'm new here so sorry if I offend anyone. My daughter is going through University to be a psychologist..she plans on becoming a Dr. When anyone asks why not a psychiatrist her answer is always to try to help people through without medication...give each professional a chance . If you are worried about what to say spend time before appts and make a list. If you are not comfortable discussing things maybe come back to it later..but if you don't tell them how do you expect them to help without knowing the whole story? I realize i don't your whole story but please give her your help to help you.i apologize if I'm way out of line but I'm finding closed minds don't see the light..

[Jemima]

I don't know the situation in Canada, but having an open mind--and mouth--can get a person hospitalized and drugged to the gills in no time in the US.  The law here is that if a professional such as a doctor or psychologist believes that a patient is a danger to themselves or others, that patient can be committed to a hospital against their will for observation. Once hospitalized, observed for three days, and subsequently committed by a court of law, that person can be drugged against their will as well.

 

Professionals tend to err on the side of being overly cautious because they fear malpractice suits. We have several members on this forum to whom this has happened. It's a horrible experience and it's understandable that people are careful about what they say in such a dangerous situation.

[starlitegirlx]

I agree with others who have stated that being cautious of what you say is the way to go. I was very cautious with my pdoc about letting him know I was in WD because I didn't know if he was going to yank the pills. I've also never told him when I was suicidal because I know how that goes. And I was suicidal a lot on ADs. If he had known the intensity of it, I would have been hospitalized and drugged. Now, I say very little until I feel them out in conversation. I get a feel for what they think about issues where people are having problems tapering ADs. I was a fluke to him for the problems I had with my Imipramine stop. But then I realized it was benzo related. I didn't tell this to him until I was fairly sure he wouldn't decided I needed to CT stop. Turns out he was very understanding and has given me 100% control over my taper. But I've read stories where docs just take control and screw over the patient.

 

Never say suicidal. Say depressed. If you have been suicidal before and are here to tell the tale, then there's a 99.9% chance you aren't going to get suicidal and kill yourself. You'll just get through it and not be suicidal. Never risk them jumping the gun.

 

When discussing med tapers and WD, be careful what you say. They might decide to take control and make you worse for it. So don't give them the change. Speak benignly about it as if you realized you didn't need the AD or as much of it so you were reducing it. See the responses you get. If the doc digs like they want to see if you are feeling worse from taking less as if taking more would make you better then you have a pro drugger doc and it's best to stay away. If they are fine with it and don't dig like that then they may be more open minded.

 

Sometimes you get a good doc but often they are so brainwashed that they believe the 'chemical imbalance' fairytale despite there is not one test to validate it and there is no empirical data to support it. Kind of makes you wonder what kind of education they had. I bought it as a patient, but as a doc, they are trained or should be trained to want empirical evidence.... but I digress.

 

Always be uber cautious with what you tell these docs.

[compsports]

I agree with others who have stated that being cautious of what you say is the way to go. I was very cautious with my pdoc about letting him know I was in WD because I didn't know if he was going to yank the pills. I've also never told him when I was suicidal because I know how that goes. And I was suicidal a lot on ADs. If he had known the intensity of it, I would have been hospitalized and drugged. Now, I say very little until I feel them out in conversation. I get a feel for what they think about issues where people are having problems tapering ADs. I was a fluke to him for the problems I had with my Imipramine stop. But then I realized it was benzo related. I didn't tell this to him until I was fairly sure he wouldn't decided I needed to CT stop. Turns out he was very understanding and has given me 100% control over my taper. But I've read stories where docs just take control and screw over the patient.

 

Never say suicidal. Say depressed. If you have been suicidal before and are here to tell the tale, then there's a 99.9% chance you aren't going to get suicidal and kill yourself. You'll just get through it and not be suicidal. Never risk them jumping the gun.

 

When discussing med tapers and WD, be careful what you say. They might decide to take control and make you worse for it. So don't give them the change. Speak benignly about it as if you realized you didn't need the AD or as much of it so you were reducing it. See the responses you get. If the doc digs like they want to see if you are feeling worse from taking less as if taking more would make you better then you have a pro drugger doc and it's best to stay away. If they are fine with it and don't dig like that then they may be more open minded.

 

Sometimes you get a good doc but often they are so brainwashed that they believe the 'chemical imbalance' fairytale despite there is not one test to validate it and there is no empirical data to support it. Kind of makes you wonder what kind of education they had. I bought it as a patient, but as a doc, they are trained or should be trained to want empirical evidence.... but I digress.

 

Always be uber cautious with what you tell these docs.

Couldn't agree more with your advice about being cautious. When I tapered off my meds, if I described a negative symptom, I would attribute it to withdrawal and made it clear that I expected this to quickly pass.  I didn't want my psychiatrist to get any ideas in his head that I was having a relaspe.

 

As I got closer to the end of my taper, I kept saying everything was fine even if I felt like h-ll.

[Cookson]

Will be a hell of a lot more helpful then your psychiatrist! Who are laughed and looked down upon by medical health professionals across the board who seriously lack medical training in the treatment of medical disorders and administration of drugs. They are ridiculous with their practises and sinister by nature! We must end their madness! Psychologists will asses you properly and use effective psychotherapies!

[compsports]

Hi Cookson,

 

Sadly, you have to be cautious with psychologists as many of them at least in the US think that drugs are the answer to everything. Many of them want prescription rights.

 

Sorry, I am very cynical.

 

CS

[Cookson]

Hi CS,

 

Oh dear, Sorry to who hear that!

 

In the UK ssri drugs are regarded as a last option.

 

Perhaps because your health institutions are privatised they are under more aggressive influence by the drug companies to sell their product!  

 

You do read about them being wined and dined by these drug companies :/

[compsports]

Hi Cookson,

 

Yup, due to the great influence of drug companies in the US which included physicians being wined and dined and being paid consulting fees, many times, drugs are the first and only option offered for medical treatment.

 

Also, this is occuring also in regular medicine because doctors are rushed for time and don't have to time to accurately access patients, particularly ones with a complex history.

 

CS

[mammaP]

Here in Scotland, mental health services have been cut to the bare bones. 

20 years ago people were admitted readily but now people are turned away even when desperate.

It seems like their thinking is that ' if you are well enough to ask for help you are not ill enough to need it '.

There are some horror stories in the press about people who were desperately pleading for help then

committing suicide when turned away.  If they had access to a psychologist then maybe they could have been helped.

Psychologists here that I have heard of  work on talk therapy and cbt etc. rather than drugs but it is very very hard

to get seen unless you have money to pay for it. It's getting harder to see a psychiatrist too, and most prescribing is

done by gp's. I was on the waiting list for a psychologist for 5 YEARS,  I will still be very careful what I say though,

, I have been detained before and have no intention of going there again!