strongmama2015: Don't know what to do (Trazodone withdrawal?)

[strongmama2015]

Hello, everyone. I really don't know what is going on with me at this moment and I don't know what is the best course of action. Here is a brief history of what has led up to now:

 

I've had anxiety/depression most of my life. I am now 34 about turn 35 in December, God Willing. Almost two years ago, I started taking Ambien to help me sleep because of panic attacks that were happening I think as a result of postpartum anxiety and depression with my last child. Needless to say, I started to abuse the Ambien by taking a half to full pill during the day because it helped my anxiety. I was living with my mother at the time so I had help with my girls (I have three, all under the age of 7). I didn't know what I was messing with with the Ambien and I tried to stop cold turkey once I was honest with myself about what I was doing. Boy was that a mistake! I nearly went mad within a day or two and went back on it. My anxiety had become so bad at that point that I started abusing it again. This time I tried to reduce my dose drastically, from about 10-15 mg a day, to 7.5mg. I had a really bad few days which was followed by an episode of depersonalization which led to hospitalization. They diagnosed me with OCD and Major Depression and offered to put me on Celexa 20mg and Trazodone 50mg. I refused and they only gave me Temazepam 30mg for sleep. I was in there for about 3 days. Needless to say the Temazepam was too heavy so I went back on the Ambien, another mistake. The withdrawal from the Ambien was so bad and my anxiety only got worse. I refused to go back up on the dose as prescribed by pdoc, and I ended up back in the hospital in October of 2014.

 

This time I was put on Zoloft 50mg, Clonazepam .5mg 3xday, and Trazodone 50mg at night. I stabilized and spent the rest of the last year tapering down off these meds. I found essential oils and they were working wonders for my anxiety and any withdrawal I was having from quitting the meds. As of September, I had gotten off all of the Zoloft, and was taking Clonazepam only as needed, with a three week break between starting it up again a few weeks ago due to hormonal anxiety linked to my menstrual cycle. Now here is where things took a turn...

 

A few weeks ago there was a chance that I might have concieved. I called my pdoc and he told me to discontinue the Trazodone cold turkey. I told him I was not sure I was pregnant and wouldn't know for atleast another week. He told me that it would be find to stop taking it cold turkey. He said that my dose is so low that I should be fine. Well, that didn't happen. This Trazodone discontinuation coincided with a very stressful event- I moved out on my own with my husband and kids after living with my mom for 3.5 years. I underestimated how much anxiety that would create. My OCD came back with a vengeance and I quickly started barely eating or drinking from the anxiety. The weird thing is that I can fall asleep without the Trazodone. The worst thing I am experiencing now is that I have that horrible morning anxiety. I am awakened at around 5-6:30am, and my heart is pounding. The anxiety used to be in my head as well, but now I feel it mostly in my chest and limbs. This is hard because I want to sleep in and I really can't when this happens. Is this part of withdrawal?

 

I spend hours sometimes reading this site, and I am learning a lot but I also think my anxiety gets a little worse because some of you are having problems a long time after and I'm scared. I figured I would come on here and tell my story and see if you guys had any advice about my specific situation. Right now I am 17 days without the Trazodone. I am taking Clonazepam sparingly(.25mg every couple of days if the anxiety gets really bad. Twice I've taken .5mg) but nothing else. I have three little ones to take care of and although I am starting to feel better, I don't know if trying to tough it out is best for me as things are very stressful right now. My pdoc wants me to go back on all meds...I don't want to. I'm scared to reinstate the Trazodone for fear things will not get better. I remember when I first started taking it in the hospital that I had horrible sleep paralysis the first few nights which was terrifying. What do you guys think? Thanks so much!

 

 

Withdrawal History:

 

Ambien 10mg (abused it and would take more):started 2/14 discontinued 10/14

Zoloft 100 mg: discontinued 9/9/15

Clonazepam: Originially .5mg 3x/day starting 10/14, tapered down to .25mg as needed

Trazodone 50mg: started 10/14, stopped cold turkey 10/15/15

[strongmama2015]

I forgot to mention that I am not pregnant. Other issues I am having: seeming paralysis from anxiety to do anything meaningful to my daily life (eg. struggling to get up and take care of my kids, calling friends and hanging onto them for distraction and to be reassured everything will be ok). I have been awake since around 5:30-6am this morning and although my anxiety is not as bad as it has been at this moment, it comes in waves. A major symptom of my withdrawals seems to be OCD thoughts, mainly harm, suspicions and thoughts about going insane or losing touch with reality. I also worry about losing strength and ending it all. I am a person of faith and I believe at my core that nothing is so bad as to end it, but these withdrawal thoughts and anxiety makes it feel like you can't handle another day if it is going to be like this...and yet we do

[Martina23]

Hello, you have the same symptoms than me :-)

I have got also harm OCD in withdrawal and am always afraid from psychosis. So, nice to meet you.

[Fresh]

Hi strongmama , welcome to the site.

You are beginning to have withdrawal symptoms from stopping trazodone abruptly 17 days ago.  

 

If you're going to ride it out , things will likely get worse for quite a while before they get better , so you

should be prepared for that.

You may find that a tiny dose (like 1 or 2mg)of trazodone takes the edge off your w/d symptoms.  You don't

need to reinstate at 50mg.   Then when you are stable , you can taper off slowly and safely using the 10%

reduction guidelines.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[strongmama2015]

Thank you Martina and Fresh. I was thinking of reinstating to 25mg as I feel that I cannot handle things getting worse right now. I was hoping that my withdrawal was maybe almost half way through since its been more than two weeks.

[dalsaan]

Hi strongmamma,

 

 

Unfortunately withdrawal can last a lot longer than two weeks. As Fresh said, many people find that a very small dose is enough to address withdrawal. I would try that rather than reinstating 25 mg, particularly because your anxiety already shows a destabilised system. It could be that your system has become sensitised and won't cope with 25 now

 

Here is our thread on reinstatement - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/page-2

 

Read through that and post any questions you have here

 

Dalsaan

[Fresh]

I agree with Dalsaan . . . better to start low and work your way up if you need to.   You could get a serious adverse

reaction to 25mg ,  and it's better all round if you can stabilize on a lower dose.  Then once you're

stable , you can look at tapering slowly and safely to avoid w/d symptoms.

 

Try reading Tips for Tapering Trazodone here

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2883-tips-for-tapering-off-trazodone-desyrel/

 

and How to make Liquid from Tablets or Capsules

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

It's important to get a precise dose.  The process may seem complicated at first , but you'll be fine once

you get your head around it.

 

[strongmama2015]

It has only been two weeks, why can't I reinstate at 25mg? I know you guys will probably say that is my choice but then these are the risks. I'm already so anxiety ridden as it is and this quite frankly freaking me out. I am genuinely feeling a little better and I can sleep, but the problem is the morning anxiety that tends to even out on its own around 10am. I have three small girls, I am so scared I will be hospitalized over this. I just can't wrap my head around that it is too late to stabilize close to my old dose. I don't have the money right now for a scale and I'm scared to figure out dosing with dissolving tablets. I'm just depressed and sad that this is what life is like right now. I'm sorry to seem like a baby, but I'm just scared and frustrated as to what to do. Thanks.

[dalsaan]

I understand you are scared. We have already outlined why we think you should reinstate at a lower dose - your nervous system can become very sensitive once it has experienced withdrawal, starting low and going slow is the key. This is our experience.

 

Some people end up going up to higher doses but only once they have established how well their system is tolerating reinstatement

 

That is the best advice we can give you. It is your decision what to do from here. Fresh has given your links to threads on how to make a liquid to taper

 

Dalsaan

[strongmama2015]

Ok, I have some questions. Here goes:

 

Even when I was tapering from the Zoloft and Clonazepam, I would experience a recurrence of the OCD thoughts and such. I had existing anxiety and depression. Before going on these meds. My question is, could part of the anxiety Inam experiencing be in relation to moving (which is a big stress and fear for me), hormonal triggered anxiety, instead of all due to withdrawal? Except for some nightmares and initial sleep disturbances, I never experienced problems from the Trazodone. I came down from 75mg to 50mg rather easily. I know cold turkey is not the same as tapering. But my question is, could it be that the withdrawal is not as bad as I think as there are other genuine life events that are producing anxiety in and of themselves? I originally started the Trazodone as a substitute for the Ambien to get off it. They added Clonazepam b/c my withdrawal from the Ambien was so bad. I remember the Trazodone helped my mood a little at night, but as time wore on and I got used to the 50mg, I didn't really notice a difference on my sleep. And that was ok b/c I don't think I had a real sleep issue. Even now I don't have a problem sleeping at night. It's just the morning anxiety which I guess is withdrawal from the Trazodone. Sorry if this is rambling--so much on my mind.

[dalsaan]

I can't really answer that because your ct coincided with moving out. It could be that is contributing to your anxiety. However, few people are lucky enough to ct without withdrawal symptoms

 

A prudent response would be to assume both are making an impact. That still suggests a low dose reinstatement.

 

Dalsaan

[strongmama2015]

I know everyone is an individual, but do you know after being on Trazodone for a year, mostly at 50mg, how long it may take for the worst withdrawal symptoms to appear without reinstatement and how long it may take to start to feel better?

[strongmama2015]

And if I am already feeling a little better, can that be. An indication that maybe my brain is starting to adjust? A few days ago with the morning anxiety, I remember my brain buzzing with anxiety as well as my body. Now it's mostly just my heart pounding, but my head feels stable or calm.

[dalsaan]

I know everyone is an individual, but do you know after being on Trazodone for a year, mostly at 50mg, how long it may take for the worst withdrawal symptoms to appear without reinstatement and how long it may take to start to feel better?

Unfortunately everyone is different. There is no pattern that would allow us to predict these things

[dalsaan]

And if I am already feeling a little better, can that be. An indication that maybe my brain is starting to adjust? A few days ago with the morning anxiety, I remember my brain buzzing with anxiety as well as my body. Now it's mostly just my heart pounding, but my head feels stable or calm.

Again, we have seen wide variations. For some people this would be a sign that their body is adjusting for others it's a window of reduced symptoms and stronger withdrawal will follow

 

 

This is one of the key issues with these drugs - the reactions vary markedly when people take them and when they come off them

 

I'm sorry nobody can give you the certainty you are looking for. You have to make a decision with very imperfect knowledge. Given all that I have read, I think a very low dose reinstatement is a risk minimisation strategy that is your better option. You may decide to push through and hope it works out. It's up to you

[strongmama2015]

I just spoke with a pharmacist. She said that 25 mg is a small enough dose to try and take now. It's so hard to tell what is real anxiety and what is anxiety from withdrawal. She mentioned that she also took 50mg of Trazodone for a year and a half and cold turkeyed it as well. She seemed to know that that wasn't a great idea but she said that 50mg is so small a dose and that it is mostly for sleep not depression or anxiety.

[strongmama2015]

I am really tempted to take 25mg and see what happens, but I'm also scared! Thank you dalsaan for your advice. Astro do you have any advice for me, or anyone else who has a similar situation as me? I also have 5mg tablets of Melatonin Incoukd try. I took one about a week ago and it felt very heavy for me. Maybe I can take half and try that.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, strongmama.

 

What doctors and pharmacists think is a small dose is not necessarily what your nervous system thinks is a small dose. Very few doctors or pharmacists realize that one's nervous system can be sensitized by going on and off drugs, as you have.

 

The symptoms they have interpreted as OCD and Major Depression -- and then overdrugged -- probably was drug withdrawal.

 

How about cutting that 25mg trazodone tablet into quarters and see how you do with one quarter (6.25mg)? Give it a few days to test the waters.

 

Whatever your decision, please let us know how you are doing.

[strongmama2015]

What are the pros and cons of hospitalization? My morning anxiety is back and Inthink I got very little sleep last night. One of the hardest parts of this is the difficulty in eating and drinking. I've already lost another 12 lbs in the last two weeks from this.

[strongmama2015]

I talked to my doc today. He did not recognize what I was experiencing as Trazodone withdrawal. He said he could write a list of symptoms for people who are experiencing a sudden decrease in serotonin and I don't have it. He said that I discontinued a very small dose of a medicine for sleep and now Obam having sleep problems so it means the original problem has come back. I told him eve before starting Ambien, I don't remember waking up to horrible morning anxiety, but he didn't recognize my original Ambien withdrawal, either. However he did say that I could take a very low dose like you guys have suggested if it makes me feel better. He said the best dose is the one that works for me. He suggested taking 25 or 50mg and to continue with my counseling and take the Clonazepam to get through the worst parts. He stressed therapy b/c he said that we'll only be treating symptoms and end up on 3 different meds where one is maybe all that is needed. I don't know where he was going with that b/c he didn't mention getting back on Zoloft during the phone call. I broke down and took .25mg of Clonazepam because of the anxiety. It's been three days since my last dose. I feel more stable right now. My sleep is getting worse. It's like I know I've fallen asleep but I wake up so much that it feels like I'm awake with my eyes closed but O know I've taken cat naps here and there. The weird part is hat my obsessive thoughts have gotten better. I'm having so much of anxiety of my life responsibilities right now. I was so close to considering hospitalization, but I don't think that is gre answer. I'm going to take 6.25mg of the Trazodone tonight and see how Indo over the next few days. God Willing it is enough to stabilize me and I can come off of this safely.

 

Due you think taking the Clonazepam once or twice daily for the next week or so is ok to help get through this? I'm just not taking care of myself right now. I'm not eating or drinking enough so my nutrition is horrible. I pray to God that this will be over soon. Thanks, guys.

[nz11]

What are the pros and cons of hospitalization?

Pros: You get to enjoy free(?) meals in bed.

Cons: You get served with a smorgasboard ...of poisons.

 

Pros: The unqualified person who wheels in the food will be an understanding empathic angel.

Cons: The doctors will look at you with about as much empathy and understanding as a Russian fighter pilot viewing a Syrian rebel training camp and then fire off a drug prescription!

 

Pros: The unqualified person mopping the floor will ask ' Whats happened too you'?

Cons: The medical profession will ask ' Whats wrong with you'?

 

Pros: Family and friends might come and visit you.

Cons: You now become voiceless cos you are mad!

 

Pros: You get to choose what meal you want.

Cons: Others get to make the big decisions for you....and you have no say in it.

 

Pros: You do not have to say anything

Cons: ...but anything you do say will be noted down, twisted and used against you (esp if things turn to adverse event custard) and to irreversibly erroneously label you.

 

Pros: You may get to exercise some brain matter having to complete questionnaires.

Cons: Your brain may be exercised as a conducter ...of electricity ...ECT.

 

Pros: When it comes to fees... informed consent is obtained

Cons: When it comes to long term outcomes of hospital actions uninformed consent is obtained.

 

Pros: Nurses will help you get by.

Cons: You may get bipolar-ized.

 

Pros: You may get a diag-nosis.

Cons: More likely however is that  you will get a diag-nonsense. 

 

Pros: You may get to enjoy listening to background music perhaps an orchestra.

Cons: You may be forced to listen to an orchestrated litany of pharma lies.

 

Pros: You will observe workers and co-workers in action.

Cons: You will leave assigned to a gestapo enforcing case-worker NOT a co-worker.

 

Note: I have never been to hospital for wdl but was threatened it if i didnt snap out of it....by family.

[Martina23]

When I was in hospital, even the meals were not for free :-)

[calithebold]

I have had so many hospitalisations over the last 20 years that I have lost count of them (probably around 100 admissions -  seriously scary stuff). What I do know is that I was treated like I wasn't even a person. I was institutionalised and left to pick up the pieces on many occasions. It can at times be attractive to have someone look after you but it's what they do to you while you are there that is the problem and trust me, they will do it, whether you realise it or not. I went from having 1 medication 20 years ago, to having been on around 19 different since. The docs may sound like they know what they're talking about, but you have to listen to your body. It sounds like your body is screaming right now. These guys here know what they are talking about, try and trust them. I'm glad I do!

[MollyN]

I'm always newly impressed and amazed by this community of awesomeness! nz11's post of pros and cons is publish worthy and together with calithebold and martina23, fresh, dalsaan and alto all so experienced in the terrible world of anti depressant withdrawal. I'm just a beginner, but I hope you can hear what they're saying and don't worry if like me you have to re read their advice umpteen times to really 'hear it'.

 

I understand the struggle of suffering through this with small children, it's a terrible added pressure emotionally and physically when we wish we could just curl up on the couch and not move for the next 18 months.

 

Really huge hugs as you make it through moment by moment, letting go of all the 'should does and should have dones' and concerntrate on being kind, warm and lovely to yourself xxxxmolly

 

(I really like KarenB's comment that when it's really bad for her, she uses all her energy focused on just making it through being as kind as she can to herself and her family - never mind doing anything else)

 

I like to think of it like water conservation, I don't need to be using up my precious resources of energy making the neighbour/friend/extended family member/person at the shop/stranger/church member happy. Just concerntrate on me and my husband and children.

 

... do ignore all of that if it's not helpful xxxxxx

[Fresh]

Could someone please move nz11's post to the Best of SA section?   Truly hilarious nz . . . you crack me up.

 

Strongmama ,  one thing you can be sure of is that in  hospital you will be medicated , as others have

said , and you have no control over it.  

If you have an adverse reaction to a big dose of whatever they give you (for me it was an antipsychotic ,

and I became a bit violent) , they add something else to dampen things down.

 

Hospital is a great last resort if you feel so unsafe with yourself that you fear you will harm the children or

attempt suicide.

 

Apart from that , it's usually a less intrusive option to get yourself well at home if at all possible.   

 

I know it's not easy to make decisions.   By all means , try melatonin , wait a few days , whatever you

need.

We have no vested interest in getting you back on meds  , everyone just wants to save you further

suffering.

[strongmama2015]

Fresh, I am trying not to stress over this withdrawal. Do you think waiting a day or two and seeing how the melatonin works or if the anxiety gets better is ok before trying reinstatement? I don't even know if I would perceive a dose of 6.5mg. Doc suggested going back on 25-50mg. He says it's my insomnia from the anxiety and depression returning, not withdrawal.

Honestly reading the forum has increased my anxiety b/c of everyone's horror stories. I also know that I am an individual and there is no way of knowing what is going to happen to or for me until it does. Right now I just need to get better sleep because the night waking is getting worse and the morning anxiety is still there. I'm not really experiencing any violent feelings, just lots of anxiety and depression. My weepiness has decreased a lot, since I would cry at the drop of a hat over things in the last week and a half. My greatness concern remains the lack of nutrition and hydration and the terror and paralysis I feel at doing day to day things. That hurts the most...like I won't do what will help me. I'm running to friends, calling hospitals and clinics, and they all are not a substitute for me doing what I need to to take care of myself.

[strongmama2015]

I'm sorry about the horror story part...I don't mean to offend anyone.

[Fresh]

Of course it's okay to wait strongmama.  You are the captain of this ship and decide your course from this point.

 

We all have the same issue about reading too much on this site , so go at your own pace.  

It's very common to have huge difficulties eating for a bunch of reasons.  Try looking in the Symptoms

section to see what helps other people.  Try to eat a small amount of anything every few hours , to keep up your

blood sugar.   And drink what you can , even if you're peeing alot.  

Magnesium is relaxing , get a powder to dissolve in water.

We know you're doing the best you can.

 

[chicken]

In response to the hospital. Not sure what country you are in but here in the US when I was in the hospital I was able to refuse any medicine I did not want. Of course I went in voluntarily so this my be different from someone who goes in involuntarily. Tried to give me an SSRI and I refused to take it. The docs said that they could not force me to take it.

[strongmama2015]

This morning anxiety is so bad. I think I am going to reinstate. I've been up since a little before 5am and I've been trying to fall back asleep since 5:45am. My heart is pounding and Inambgetting facial and muscle twitches along with waves of anxiety.

[AliG]

Hi Strongmama,

 

If you are thinking of hospitalization. I would encourage you to read  " ten 0275" 's thread.  It says it all ! Please don't go there.

 

How about splitting that Trazodone  into a quarter,  and taking the  6.25 mg, Just to relieve some of those symptoms.

 

You really can't take too much notice of your doctor. That's how we all got in this mess  !  LOL.  By listening to our Doctors .

 

To be honest, If the worst you have is a bit of " heartpounding" and  twitches, with anxiety, you're doing ok . Don't panic.  It will get better.

 

If you're going to reinstate, which is a good idea, start slow at 6.25 mg.

 

Good luck, and let us know how you go .

 

Ali.

[strongmama2015]

Ali, I already feel like I don't know how I can go on like this day after day. I want to sleep in the morning so desperately, but I can't. All I do is lay in bed with my heart pounding, anxiety through my body, dark thoughts and bow muscle twitches. I am also depressed. I am sitting here, watching my kids being entertained by computers and tablets and I am on this forum so much. Just looking at them causes me anxiety. The thought of. Feeding myslef gives me anxiety. All I want to do is go to a place where they can give me the Trazodone and watch me, but I guess that is a false security blanket. I wish I could say suicidal thoughts aren't happening, but they are. I'm so tired right now. I am sleepy but I feel like a live wire from my brainstem down.

[Martina23]

Hello Strongmama,

 

I would not do this with hospitalization if I were on your place. I just remembered my hospitalization. It was after my c/t and the family pursuaded me to go to hospital as I have got as withdrawal symptoms harm OCD, major depression and GAD. I went there voluntary.

 

On the second day my children came to visit me and I wanted to go with them home. I told the doctor I am  decided I am going home, after all I am voluntarily here. The doctor just said "so from this point you are not voluntarily here, now you are unvoluntarily and you will not go home. I wanted to go home even in that case. Seven doctors took me, bound me to the bed and because I spat out medicament they wanted to give me they forced me to take it by injecting it to the leg.

 

This feeling of powerlessness you can not imagine.  I was not dangerous I wanted only with children to go home. Now I have from it trauma for the whole life.

 

I dont say everyone has to have such an experience, but when you are there you can not change the course of their action anymore. They can do whatever they want.

[AliG]

Hi Strong,

 

That's what I'm calling you, from now on .  You can do this . Been where you are.  I still am at times. 

 

" Tired , but wired". I get it !  Don't think it will get better in hospital.  I know the idea of " giving in" , and letting them take care of you sounds appealing, but it's all wrong thinking!   They will just put you on a  hundred medications, that will take you forever to get off !

 

You have children. You have to stay strong for them .

 

Your name says it all.

 

Just try and get through the next minute, and then the next .

 

It will be ok !

 

Hugs,

 

Ali.

[strongmama2015]

Ali, do you think he 6.25mg of Trazodone will help with the morning anxiety? Right now it is after 11am EST, and I notice that I tend to even out around this time in the morning. Sometimes I get waves again around 5-6pm. I can fall asleep at night, but I have some night wakings but I'm able to fall back asleep. As soon as it is after 4am, then the anxiety starts. I feel the most anxious, depressed and desperate in the mornings. Now that I am thinking about it, that's how I felt when I was in Ambien withdrawal, too. However, I can't compare the two because I was abusing the Ambien and taking all different types of doses daily for two months, then tried to cold turkey. This is different. I'm noticing the paradoxical affects with he Clonazepam. When I do take it (maybe one every few days), I notice it can actually make me feel a little more anxious or depressed I just want help with the morning anxiety.

[AliG]

 S,

 

Did you take it for sleep  or depression ?  or both ?

 

It's not too late to re- instate.  It will help with all of your withdrawal symptoms .  I think if I were you, that's what I would do .