Dallasxd: Question Regarding Tapering

[Dallasxd]

I am currently 21 years old. I was taking Lexapro since I was 14 up until a few months ago, my Therapist thought it would be a good idea to switch to "Pristiq". It wasn't that I found Lexapro not helpful, I just was searching for something "Better".

 

The Tapering Process for Lexapro was 3 days, I was told to cut 3 pills in half and take one a day for 3 days, then on the third day begin Pristiq. After starting Pristiq I felt very weird symptoms which I found to be "brain zaps" after doing some research, I had headaches, I was irritable, Had Dizziness/Lightheaded spells. Then after a few days I started feeling better, my guess is once the Pristiq started to really enter my system it helped with the WD symptoms. I saw a therapist after starting Pristiq (not because of the pristiq, just a general therapist to help move forward with my life, I'm 21 no job/school because of my mental health problems) She diagnosed me with ADHD, I spoke with my doctor about it and she told me that you cannot  take Pristiq With Adderall and that I had to choose which to take, I told her I wanted to try the adderall, so after 3 weeks of being on Pristiq, I stopped. She said I did not need to taper, and told me to immediately stop Pristiq and Begin Adderall. 

 

 

I immediately started Adderall the next day, and have had the most horrible WD symptoms. I feel like i have the flu and a migraine at the same time. I am constantly dizzy, lightheaded, have headaches, my anxiety is so bad my hands are literally shaking while I type this, I have a bp monitor and have been taking it, my heartrate is avg 115-120. I feel nauseous, I feel like I could throw up. Worst part is these horrible "brain zaps" Whenever I turn my head or are focusing on reading something I experience this quick shock in my head which comes with lightheadedness, my best way to explain it is when you are in an elevator and it comes to a stop, you feel a quick "jolt" in your brain. I am constantly experiencing this, at least 2-5 times every 5 mins. If i sit still or an laying down not moving my head I don't experience them. I feel a lot more depressed, have crying spells. on Christmas eve I was laying in bed around 6 pm and cried for 30 minutes and had no idea why I was crying. 

 

 

My main question is, I am reading on here that the tapering process can take months, I was told to do it for 3 days, and actually. my doctor told me to immediately stop the Lexapro as well, it was my pharmasist that recommended 3 days of half a pill.

 

Just looking for advice, thanks guys.

 

 

 

 

Quick note on my dosages 

I think I was taking 30 mg Lexapro the entire time.

I know for Pristiq I was taking 50mg for the short time I was on it.

and Adderall I started at 10mg to try it.

I am not 100% sure on the Lexapro I would have to go check.

 

[KarenB]

Hello Dallasxd and welcome to s/a,

 

The reason you were not given any useful tapering information is that doctors seem completely clueless about it.  Everything on this forum is based on the experiences of thousands of people.  It is rare to find a doctor who understands tapering or withdrawal.

 

Your tapering of Lexapro amounted to a cold-turkey, which (as you've discovered) leads to withdrawal symptoms.  This site recommends tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose each 4-6 weeks.  It's a harm-reduction measure. 

 

Then you c/t'd Pristiq - another shock to the system.  Pristiq is a very concentrated, powerful SSRI. 

 

How long have you been on Adderall?  What did you make of the ADHD diagnosis?  Did it ring true to you?  Your path from here depends on whether you really want to stick with Adderall.

 

Could you fill out a signature so your meds, dates and tapering info is clearer?  That helps us to help you better.

 

You'll be able to find a way through all this, the important thing is to go slow and careful.

Glad you are here,

KarenB

[Dallasxd]

Hello Dallasxd and welcome to s/a,

 

The reason you were not given any useful tapering information is that doctors seem completely clueless about it.  Everything on this forum is based on the experiences of thousands of people.  It is rare to find a doctor who understands tapering or withdrawal.

 

Your tapering of Lexapro amounted to a cold-turkey, which (as you've discovered) leads to withdrawal symptoms.  This site recommends tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose each 4-6 weeks.  It's a harm-reduction measure. 

 

Then you c/t'd Pristiq - another shock to the system.  Pristiq is a very concentrated, powerful SSRI. 

 

How long have you been on Adderall?  What did you make of the ADHD diagnosis?  Did it ring true to you?  Your path from here depends on whether you really want to stick with Adderall.

 

Could you fill out a signature so your meds, dates and tapering info is clearer?  That helps us to help you better.

 

You'll be able to find a way through all this, the important thing is to go slow and careful.

Glad you are here,

KarenB

 

Thanks for the fast response, I have been on Adderall for one week. Last Sunday (Dec 20th) was my last dose of Pristiq, Monday I was prescribed Adderall but couldn't get it until Tuesday. So Tuesday morning I started Adderall XR 10MG (Dec 22) I have noticed 0 effects from Adderall, no increased focus/ energy, nothing. I've even been able to sleep perfectly fine. First time I took Adderall I fell asleep an hour after I took it with no issues sleeping. I think the dose is too small but we started with the smallest dose just to be able to see how I would do on it. The Adderall Diagnosis seemed true to me, I have had many problems staying focusing since I was younger, I get distracted easily, Interrupt people often and many other symptoms of ADHD my therapist talked about that I could relate to. I will work on adding a signature, a lot of the past seems blurry to me so I'll have to ask my mother for input on some of the dates, but this is my current situation...

 

Then you c/t'd Pristiq - another shock to the system.  Pristiq is a very concentrated, powerful SSRI.

 

Pristiq is an SNRI and not an SSRI right? or are they basically the same thing.

[ChessieCat]

Yep, Pristiq is an SNRI.

 

Hi Dallas.  CC

[KarenB]

No you're right - I was typing too fast - Pristiq is an SNRI, which means they block the reuptake of both serotonin and norepinephrine, whereas SSRIs block only the serotonin (according to the drug company literature).  Similar, but with a key difference.

[Dallasxd]

No you're right - I was typing too fast - Pristiq is an SNRI, which means they block the reuptake of both serotonin and norepinephrine, whereas SSRIs block only the serotonin (according to the drug company literature).  Similar, but with a key difference.

 

Hmm so is it possible that when I took the Pristiq, it cured the withdrawals I was having from Lexapro? Or would that not happen since they are different drugs?

[nz11]

Welcome Dallasx,

 

After reading of your plight i am just completely speechless.

 

With the mountain of info out there your doctor must surely win the insane award.

 

30mg of lexapro that is a truckload of drug. ...and given to a 14 yr old for 7 years. (we could be talking here something as potent as 60 to 120 mg of paxil)

Black box warnings came in in 2004 and age extended in 2006. FDA warnings in 2005 or 2004?

 

And a doctor saying CT it ...

recs by the pharmacist and therapists?!?! Then patients making drug rec to doctors.

Since when are therapists qualified to make diagnosis ...perhaps it was a pdoc therapist.

It is completely erroneous to diagnose a brain altered by drugs. 

 

I cant see what could possibly be 'selective'  about a drug that has literally hundreds of side effects. (and they are just the ones we know of).

 

Unfortunately i am a very opinionated member ....that just means whatever i say you can ignore it.

 

Basically 1 Dec stopped 30 mg lex (after 7 yrs) and took 50mg of pristiq for 3 weeks

20th dec stopped pristiq and on 22 dec took adderall for one week

 

You are clearly a lex addict ...

 

ditch the adderall, forget about the prisitq and go back to lex (say 20mg?,) ...and stabilize then taper properly as rec here. Rightly or wrongly ..thats my cards on the table.

(another option i guess is to go back to pristiq but perhaps venlafaxine is a better choice)

 

Tapers are tending to take years not months for long term exposure. However you are  young so you may well do much better.

 

 

I think its important to get some more voices come in on this ...i dont want to scare anyone but this is a very concerning situation. imo

[Dallasxd]

Welcome Dallasx,

 

After reading of your plight i am just completely speechless.

 

With the mountain of info out there your doctor must surely win the insane award.

 

30mg of lexapro that is a truckload of drug. ...and given to a 14 yr old for 7 years. (we could be talking here something as potent as 60 to 120 mg of paxil)

Black box warnings came in in 2004 and age extended in 2006. FDA warnings in 2005 or 2004?

 

And a doctor saying CT it ...

recs by the pharmacist and therapists?!?! Then patients making drug rec to doctors.

Since when are therapists qualified to make diagnosis ...perhaps it was a pdoc therapist.

It is completely erroneous to diagnose a brain altered by drugs. 

 

I cant see what could possibly be 'selective'  about a drug that has literally hundreds of side effects. (and they are just the ones we know of).

 

Unfortunately i am a very opinionated non-mod....that just means whatever i say you can ignore it.

 

Basically 1 Dec stopped 30 mg lex (after 7 yrs) and took 50mg of pristiq for 3 weeks

20th dec stopped pristiq and on 22 dec took adderall for one week

 

You are clearly a lex addict ...

 

ditch the adderall, forget about the prisitq and go back to lex (say 20mg?) ...and stabilize then taper properly as rec here. Rightly or wrongly ..thats my cards on the table.

 

Tapers are tending to take years not months for long term exposure. However you are  young so you may well do much better.

 

 

I think its important to get some more voices come in on this ...this is a very concerning situation. imo

 

I have not seen a psychiatrist in years, saw the therapist that comes into my doctors office once a week and asked if there might be something better I could take, he recommended Pristiq. I told my doctor and she said okay let's try Pristiq, so I switched. Saw a different therapist few weeks later, this was my first visit with her so we talked about my entire life and medical history, she said a lot of what I have said sounds like I could have ADHD, I filled out a "true/false" questionare on ADHD and got like 7 out of 9 correct, she said she can't get a psychiatrist in until february but to bring it up with my doctor, I told my doctor that my therapist thinks I had ADHD and she said ok we can try Adderall but you need to drop the Pristiq because they won't work together, so that's what I have right now.

 

 

I am diagnosed with Agoraphobia, Panic Disorder and some Anxiety disorder I can't remember exactly what, this is what i was given Lexapro for, My life started falling apart slowly over the years, dropped out of school at 16 because I couldn't make it until lunch without having a panic attack. Tried online schooling, couldn't focus or discipline myself well enough to get **** done, failed that. Also haven't been able to hold on a job either, Couldn't focus, had anxiety. quit after 1 week. So I was happy to try adderall because if I did have ADHD that was causing me to not remain focused then maybe it was the thing I needed to get my life back together, but after going from Lexapro > Pristiq > Just Adderall, I feel worse than I ever have.

 

 

I try to talk to my mom about this and she's completely unsupportive on the matter, she tells me to stop reading up on bullsh*t on the internet and to just listen to my doctor because she knows best.

[nz11]

I am so sorry the med profession have done this to you.

 

If it wasnt so serious it would be comical cos I cant help thinking i just read of a scene from faulty towers or the keystone cops.

 

Hopefully we will get some more moderating comments posted soon.

 

nz11

I was about to post my guess at what the 9 questions were but i have exercised better judgement.

[KarenB]

Hmm so is it possible that when I took the Pristiq, it cured the withdrawals I was having from Lexapro? Or would that not happen since they are different drugs?

 

 

This is exactly what happened.  Pristiq covers all the bases Lexapro did, plus a few extras for good measure.

 

What NZ11 said has some merit, but it really depends on your willingness to live drug-free.  You are probably discovering that drugs are not the complete answer they are advertised to be. 

 

Here is an article which digs into ADHD-med use a little:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1231-child-psychiatrist-on-adhd-overdiagnosed-stimulants-overprescribed/

 

And here is some discussion/experience of ADHD meds (ncluding Adderall):  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6208-porcelainmonster-please-help-adhd-meds-plus-lexapro/

 

The trouble with getting on the medi-go-round is that once a person is destabilised it becomes harder and harder to find a drug that will work.  The understanding here at s/a is that it is best to start untangling from the drug mess sooner rather than later, and preferable without adding more drugs.  Adderall at any dose may no longer work for you - it's all quite unknown. 

 

If you do want to live drug-free you will need to take the reigns and get really focused on learning how to manage the difficult things in your life. 

[Dallasxd]

 

Hmm so is it possible that when I took the Pristiq, it cured the withdrawals I was having from Lexapro? Or would that not happen since they are different drugs?

 

 

This is exactly what happened.  Pristiq covers all the bases Lexapro did, plus a few extras for good measure.

 

What NZ11 said has some merit, but it really depends on your willingness to live drug-free.  You are probably discovering that drugs are not the complete answer they are advertised to be. 

 

Here is an article which digs into ADHD-med use a little:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1231-child-psychiatrist-on-adhd-overdiagnosed-stimulants-overprescribed/

 

And here is some discussion/experience of ADHD meds (ncluding Adderall):  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6208-porcelainmonster-please-help-adhd-meds-plus-lexapro/

 

The trouble with getting on the medi-go-round is that once a person is destabilised it becomes harder and harder to find a drug that will work.  The understanding here at s/a is that it is best to start untangling from the drug mess sooner rather than later, and preferable without adding more drugs.  Adderall at any dose may no longer work for you - it's all quite unknown. 

 

If you do want to live drug-free you will need to take the reigns and get really focused on learning how to manage the difficult things in your life. 

 

 

Going to see my doctor tomorrow morning, and I guess my options are to either stay off the AD's alltogether and fight the withdrawals while only taking the Adderall, Or go back on the AD's, stop the adderall and slowly taper off. Now if I decide to take option B,  I'm wondering what taper drug would be of better choice, going back on the Pristiq or the Lexapro?

 

My experience with each is: about 6 years 20g mg Lexapro (First few years were 10mg)

and 3/4 Weeks 50MG Pristiq.

 

I really don't want to put these drugs back in my system but if its the only way to stop the withdrawals I think I may have to. Also my doctor is going to ask me about the Adderall and I'm going to let her know I haven't felt a single thing, which she will end up most likely increasing to 20-30 mg. Is that a good idea for me at this point? to take an increased dose of Adderall? Or do you think no matter how big the dose of adderall I may not feel it because of how screwed up my brain is atm from going off lex > to pris> then off that all CT

[ChessieCat]

Hi Dallas,

 

This is my opinion (FWIW).  I don't know anything about Adderall so this comment isn't related at all to Option A.

 

Re:  Option B:  If it were me and I had to decide between Lexapro and Pristiq in your situation (having only taken Pristiq for a short time), I would choose Lexapro.  Lexapro is SSRI.  Pristiq is SNRI which to me means it would be messing with serotonin AND norepinephrine so during your taper your brain would then have to be recovering from 2 messed up chemical areas rather than just the one.  However, ADs most probably mess with other chemicals (even if only indirectly) in the brain aside from what they are prescribed for because it would be a domino effect where something is out of kilter so the brain has to adapt somewhere else etc.

 

You may only need to reinstate a small dose.  It is better to start with a small amount to see how you go.  Not the full dose.  It takes 4 full days for the drug to get into your system.  I suggest you read about Reinstating and wait for a suggestion from a mod about what dosage to start with.

 

And don't forget, you have the last say on whether you take what or the dose the doctor suggests.  I think it would be a good idea to post here what has been suggested after your visit BEFORE you take anything so others can give their opinion.

 

Just a thought re the ADHD diagnosis.  Because you have been on ADs since 14 (which is in fact 1/3 of your lifetime) you may not be able to remember clearly how you were up until the age of 14.  You may have been an average kid.  Remember that there are many different types of personalities and personal traits.  From what I have read diagnosing ADHD on the 9 page questionnaire should only be the start of the diagnosis.  And your answers to those questions would be different on different days depending on how you were feeling.  Also, your answers may have been biased because you were looking for an answer to how you are presently feeling.

 

CC

[Dallasxd]

Hi Dallas,

 

This is my opinion (FWIW).  I don't know anything about Adderall so this comment isn't related at all to Option A.

 

Re:  Option B:  If it were me and I had to decide between Lexapro and Pristiq in your situation (having only taken Pristiq for a short time), I would choose Lexapro.  Lexapro is SSRI.  Pristiq is SNRI which to me means it would be messing with serotonin AND norepinephrine so during your taper your brain would then have to be recovering from 2 messed up chemical areas rather than just the one.  However, ADs most probably mess with other chemicals (even if only indirectly) in the brain aside from what they are prescribed for because it would be a domino effect where something is out of kilter so the brain has to adapt somewhere else etc.

 

You may only need to reinstate a small dose.  It is better to start with a small amount to see how you go.  Not the full dose.  It takes 4 full days for the drug to get into your system.  I suggest you read about Reinstating and wait for a suggestion from a mod about what dosage to start with.

 

And don't forget, you have the last say on whether you take what or the dose the doctor suggests.  I think it would be a good idea to post here what has been suggested after your visit BEFORE you take anything so others can give their opinion.

 

Just a thought re the ADHD diagnosis.  Because you have been on ADs since 14 (which is in fact 1/3 of your lifetime) you may not be able to remember clearly how you were up until the age of 14.  You may have been an average kid.  Remember that there are many different types of personalities and personal traits.  From what I have read diagnosing ADHD on the 9 page questionnaire should only be the start of the diagnosis.  And your answers to those questions would be different on different days depending on how you were feeling.  Also, your answers may have been biased because you were looking for an answer to how you are presently feeling.

 

CC

 

Yeah the ADHD diagnosis isn't 100% yet I don't think, I think it may have been given to me too soon. I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow morning so yeah I'll post back here before I do anything. I was also wondering if you, or anyone else in this thread, has any information regarding my other post: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10940-lexapro-and-the-endocrine-system/

[ChessieCat]

Found this - someone else having issues but no answers.  endocrine-system-exocrine-affects-of-ssri-treatment

 

Copied it here because it will more likely get seen.

 

Earlier this year I went to see an endocrinologist. I was on quite a few different meds and my family doctor didn't feel I needed all these meds anymore so she sent me to see her to get a second opinion. I had a bunch of blood work done and she found my hormones to be all out of whack. Specifically my Cortisol and Testosterone, she said my testosterone was incredibly low, and and not sure exactly she found with my cortisol but also found it to be concerning, so I went for a bunch more blood tests and nothing came up, so I'm booked for an MRI of my pituitary gland sometime in 2016, My question is I have been on Lexapro since I was 14, starting at 10mg and a few years later going to 20 mg where I stayed until now, Could the Lexapro be resulting in my endocrine system going out of whack?  and have any of you experienced this?

 

Just did a search and found this:  http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm

 

If you Ctrl + F on your keyboard and type in cortisol it will bring you to this:

 

What actually happens when you increase serotonergic neuronal activity or elevate your serotonin levels is this: the stress hormones "Cortisol" & "Adrenaline" (Epinephrine) in the brain and body are triggered by increased serotonergic activity or elevated serotonin levels. It is a natural reaction from the body to combat the excessive serotonin levels. These released hormones, cortisol and adrenaline, are secreted from the "Adrenal Glands."

 

I hope that helps.  I didn't read all of it.  CC

[Dallasxd]

Found this - someone else having issues but no answers.  endocrine-system-exocrine-affects-of-ssri-treatment

 

Copied it here because it will more likely get seen.

 

Earlier this year I went to see an endocrinologist. I was on quite a few different meds and my family doctor didn't feel I needed all these meds anymore so she sent me to see her to get a second opinion. I had a bunch of blood work done and she found my hormones to be all out of whack. Specifically my Cortisol and Testosterone, she said my testosterone was incredibly low, and and not sure exactly she found with my cortisol but also found it to be concerning, so I went for a bunch more blood tests and nothing came up, so I'm booked for an MRI of my pituitary gland sometime in 2016, My question is I have been on Lexapro since I was 14, starting at 10mg and a few years later going to 20 mg where I stayed until now, Could the Lexapro be resulting in my endocrine system going out of whack?  and have any of you experienced this?

 

Just did a search and found this:  http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm

 

If you Ctrl + F on your keyboard and type in cortisol it will bring you to this:

 

What actually happens when you increase serotonergic neuronal activity or elevate your serotonin levels is this: the stress hormones "Cortisol" & "Adrenaline" (Epinephrine) in the brain and body are triggered by increased serotonergic activity or elevated serotonin levels. It is a natural reaction from the body to combat the excessive serotonin levels. These released hormones, cortisol and adrenaline, are secreted from the "Adrenal Glands."

 

I hope that helps.  I didn't read all of it.  CC

Interesting, thank you.

[nz11]

.................................................................................//.................................................................

 I was on quite a few different meds and my family doctor didn't feel I needed all these meds anymore ..................... she found my hormones to be all out of whack. ......... she said my testosterone was incredibly low,  Could the Lexapro be resulting in my endocrine system going out of whack?  and have any of you experienced this?"

....................................................................................//......................................................

 

Dallas it might be a great idea at this moment in time to pause and complete a signature block ...as requested by Karen....its under all our postings.

 

Please put down all the drugs you have been on and are currently taking now. Have you cold turkeyed other ad drugs?

 

I  thanks to ssris now have lower testosterone than a 100 hundred yr old man.

Doctors have tried to dismiss the fact it was caused by the drug. Yet i know i am not alone, at 5 yrs it has not improved. I see it as permanent damage.

 

Anyway wouldn't it be pointless to read anything into hormone tests when taking a chemical that is messing with hormones! and pretty much everything else.

 

I await the outcome of your doctors consultation  with much interest. They have backed themselves into a real corner here. Especially since they clearly by their actions have not acknowledged ssri withdrawal and have now labelled you as ADHD.

 

So i wonder will they now say these current manifestations are due to ADHD and that the medicine is lacking in efficacy and current symptoms have nothing to do with the fallout from a too fast (non-existent/CT) lex/pristiq taper but rather are due to an underlying drug resistant ADHD.

 

Maybe they will make a new diagnosis 'bipolar' and give a new drug. (zyprexa, klonopin and maybe double the dose of adderall.)

 

Personally i feel things may get very rough very soon from the CT of lex and ensuing withdrawal, trying to relieve it with adderall may be like trying to hold back a freight train with a matchbox car. imo

 

Here is a list of symptoms that will occur in withdrawal...its very accurate.

I found number 7 to be  all consuming (well more accurately the whole lot really)  for many many months. Maybe for you it wont be.But it was not easy to survive it.

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

 

Just out of interest i did the ADHD questionnaire

 

i answered very conservatively with often recording 'rarely' and a couple of 'sometimes' thrown in for good measure. Guess what happened....?

 

Based upon your responses to this adult ADD/ADHD screening quiz, you have replied in a way similar to people who have symptoms of.....(im not writing it cos its just silly)....Wonder what the first line of therapy is????

 

http://psychcentral.com/lib/treatment-for-attention-deficit-disorder-adhd//

 

 

"Another useful category of drugs for adults with ADHD are the antidepressants, either alongside or instead of stimulants. Antidepressants which target the brain chemicals dopamine and norepinephrine are the most effective. These include the older form of antidepressant known as the tricyclics, as well as new antidepressants, such as Venlafaxine (Effexor). The antidepressant Bupropion (Wellbutrin) has been found useful in trials of adult ADHD, and may also help reduce nicotine cravings."

 

 

What a lot of cow manure, an unimaginable cost to pay awaits a person/child who gets pushed down this path...well this site is testimony to that.

 

All the best with the doc tomorrow i hope something worthwhile comes of it.

 

3. At school you had a tendency to get up out of your chair and walk around cos the teacher had bad classroom management skills and was in the wrong job. Answer' rarely'

.

.

.

 

7. You often didnt do homework and dragged your feet when it came to reading.

Answer: 'Sometimes'

 

nz11

I feel a dark force is trying to victimize me but i will not have a bar of it.

[Dallasxd]

I  thanks to ssris now have lower testosterone than a 100 hundred yr old man.

Doctors have tried to dismiss the fact it was caused by the drug. Yet i know i am not alone, at 5 yrs it has not improved. I see it as permanent damage.

 

Anyway wouldn't it be pointless to read anything into hormone tests when taking a chemical that is messing with hormones! and pretty much everything else.

 

So yeah I wasn't too big on going for an MRI. I'm claustrophobic and what not, not to mention the radiation isn't good for you. i specifically asked her if she thought the drugs I am taking (specifically lexapro) could have caused these hormonal imbalances, she tells me no.  This is coming from the Endocrinologist, not my regular Family Doctor.

 

-Pristiq Lexapro and Adderall are the the only types of drugs I have ever taken that effect your "mind".

-I take a thyroid supplement called "synthroid"

-I was taking meds for high blood pressure/ cholesterol (stopped a few months ago because they were no longer needed)

 

Besides those, that is all the prescribed meds I have ever taken, aside from the normal (antibiotics,etc)

I plan on updating my sig sometime this week, just feel really sh*tty atm and not thinking straight so haven't been bothered to gather all the exact dates and what not.

 

 

ALSO: when there were those few days when I began transitioning from Lexapro to Pristiq I had a lot of these same symptoms I am experiencing now, The main one was the lightheaded/dizziness I went and saw my doctor and told her that I believed these were withdrawals symptoms from Lexapro, she looked at me like I was insane, she told me to lay down and she checked my ears, said there was a bit of fluid in my right ear and that's what was causing the Dizzness, she told it was just allergies and it would go away in a few days on its own, I did get better after a few days but I know thats because the pristiq finally entered my system and started taking over what the Lexapro had done previously, I felt almost immediate relief from all my withdrawal symptoms on about day 3 of Pristiq.

 

 

I am starting to feel very hopeless and on my own, I feel like I can't trust any doctor because they just give me bullsh*t answers to everything and look at me like I'm an idiot when I try to explain whats wrong, I go to my mom for help and she tells me to stop reading stuff on the internet and yells at me, tells me I just need to listen to my doctor and do what she says. 

[ChessieCat]

If you do enough reading on this site, you will realise that many doctors do not know what they are talking about when it comes to ADs, at least not when it comes to getting off them.  They have been hoodwinked too (by the pharma companies) although we think/wish they should know better.  However we are very fortunate that the information that has been gathered over the years on this site can provide us with what we need to get off the drug/s.  Also the support.  We only need the doctor to prescribe what we need.  This is a link to how to talk to your doctor.  Also What You Should Expect from Your Doctor.

 

I can understand your mom telling you to listen to the doctor.  There are many people who think that doctors know best but unfortunately they are human too and they do not know everything.

 

This is what happened to me:  Twenty plus years ago I presented to my doctor telling him my symptoms and he said oh you're probably allergic to something.  I had told him that my heart had been beating so fast I didn't think it was going to keep up and that I went very weak.  It turned out that I had suffered anaphylaxis from eating MSG and the next stage from that was having a heart attack (I didn't find that out until later and it was from researching on the internet!!! NOT from a doctor).  Now I wouldn't have expected him to pick the MSG as being the culprit but I was surprised that he hadn't taken my symptoms seriously.  After it happening a couple more times I went back to the same doctor having decided beforehand that if he didn't take me seriously I would get another doctor's opinion and keep going to different doctors until I got an answer.  Anyway he sent me to an allergy specialist and I did the elimination process.  I got through every one of them and left the MSG until last.  When I said well I know it was the MSG the specialist said don't you want to know for sure, and I said I already know and refused to do the MSG challenge.  I think he wanted to see for himself but I was not going to go through it even being monitored in hospital.  So yes, you can get accurate information off the internet and no you cannot trust a doctor to know everything and a big YES is that you have to get the information and make your own decisions.  It is your body and you have the last say.

 

BUT you have the support here that you need.

 

CC

[AliG]

Dallas ,

 

I can understand how confused you are here, and don't know what to think or who to trust. You are young and impressionable, and under pressure from family and also Doctors. I'm not sure when you are seeing your Doctor again, but in the meantime, if I were you , I would read as much as I could on here, so you are as knowledgeable as you can be, when you have your next appointment. Come from a place of power, instead of being a " pawn" in their game. Know & state what you want. Educate yourself. You are not alone. You have the research, intelligence and common experience of those here, to " fall back on " , and to help you get through this. We will help you get through this. You can do it .

 

Ali

[Dallasxd]

Appreciate the kind words, I guess the hardest part is convincing the doctors otherwise, I mean, I'm just a kid, no one is going to take my word for it. and If she asks where I found out about this tapering information and I said on the internet, well that isn't a reliable enough source for most people in the real world. I am seeing my doctor in like 8 hours from now, I'll read the "how to talk to your doctor" section that was linked and go from there I guess.

[bubble]

Hello Dallassx.

 

You are not just a kid. You are a brave kid. Here is what I would do: you don't need the doctor to agree to the way you decide to manage the drugs. You just have to get him/her prescribe what you need.

 

Your situation at the moment isn't easy but it could become more difficult if your doctors continue to mess around with drugs.

 

I agree with the opinions of others here: you were on Lexapro so long that your brain has remodelled itself around it. You weren't feeling well because you were put on a too high dose. But it doesn't mean you can just stop taking it.

 

Adderal seems to be completely unnecessary. If I was going to visit a psychiatrist now I would tell him/her as it is: after I started taking Adderal and Pristiq, I started feeling worse. I was doing better on Lexapro and I'd like to go back.

 

You don't have to agree on the dose.That's a hard one. I would maybe start with 10 mg or less.

 

I'm so sorry your mom isn't really supportive. It's just that she doesn't know any better. But you saw and felt that listening to doctors only made you feel worse. I'm older than you but my family and doctors leave the drug management to me because they see that I'm doing well and coping with my symptoms. It's extremely hard to educate anyone about this and make them understand. The best way is to show them we can manage on our own (with the peer support which they don't have to approve until they see we are doing better).

 

Unfortunately after a month of messing around it will take some time for things to settle down. Now it's just important that you find yourself on the right track.

 

As Chessie said, you have the last say (and I would dare say, now even more information for the right decision than your doctor).

 

Wishing you the best of luck. It's very hard to advocate for oneself at any age but I believe you can do it. And you are not alone We'll be here to hear about how it went.

[nz11]

Dallas its not easy for anyone of any age to push back against a doctor because in the doctors clinic  the power imbalance is unprecedented and the arrogance unmatched.

However what was the game changer for me was being informed.

 

Print out the icarus project guide and take that in and show them the 10% taper schedule on pg 35?

Print out and take with you Breggins ch 8 from his book this also talks about a 10%method

Peter Breggin in Your Drug May Be Your Problem

Point out the piece that says The world authority ..Healy and team are referring people to sa. for withdrawal advice.

 

http://withdrawal.rxisk.org/

 

Last paragraph

This site [rxisk one ] builds on the extraordinary work done by a range of other sites, especially Altostrata’s Surviving Antidepressants. However, it is primarily a site for resources and research rather than support. If you want support through a withdrawal process, the place to go is Surviving Antidepressants.

 

 

I also had a very unhelpful family member but again what helps us see their voice as clueless is being informed for ourselves.

 

nz11

"Off course they will treat your like an idiot ...they're doctors"

[Dallasxd]

So I just got back from seeing my doctor. she is starting me back on 10 mg lexapro (half what I was on before) and is discontinuing the adderall. she booked me an appointment with a psychologist in a few weeks to re-evaluate if I need the adderall. I asked her what her reasoning for taking me off both lexapro and pristiq cold turkey, I told her I have read online about horrible withdrawals from these drugs and have been experiencing them myself this past week, and i listed off all my symptoms to her, her exact worlds were "Well, 99% of my patients that I take off Lexapro or Pristiq cold turkey show no signs of withdrawals whatsoever"

 

 

Just took my first dose of lexapro 10mg, not happy to be back on this drug but doing what I have to do to hopefully get rid of these awful withdrawal symptoms. - will update signature this week.

[AliG]

Dallas,

 

That is a large dose. Could you not start back at a lower dose . Maybe if you filled in your sig, we could understand a little better.    I hope it goes well, Dallas.

[KarenB]

Dallas you did good!  Getting yourself through that appt, telling the doc some of your concerns, asking her about her actions.  Brave stuff.  I'm in my 30s and I find it hard to do stuff like that. 

 

Stopping the adderall - great. 

 

Reinstating a low dose of lexapro - doesn't feel great for you, but is a necessary step in finding your way out from under all this.  Bubble thought 10mg or less would be the place to start.  What are your instincts on that? 

 

Now - time to step up the self-care.  Are you taking magnesium and fish-oil?  They are the main things that help people through the w/d process.  And read, read, read - build your understandings of how all this works, and how it will be okay for you in the end.

 

Hugs,
Karen

[bubble]

I'm also impressed with how you handled this Dallas.

 

Suggesting a dose for reinstating is tricky. I mentioned 10 mg because you said you were taking 30 less then a month ago (but weren't sure). If you took 10 already we will see how you feel over the next 4 days and reassess if it has become too much.

 

If you haven't started yet, it might be better to start with a lower dose.

 

More precise information about your last doses would be very helpful.

 

Keep us posted.

[ChessieCat]

Woohoo!!!  Way to go!!!  (I'm 58 so please excuse me if I haven't used an "in" expression )

 

Seriously, you have done very well.  Knowledge is power!!!  Now to keep it Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable.

 

Also, you might want to check out these 2 things which I found helped me to understand what is happening and why we need to take it slowly:  Video: Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery & Brain Remodelling.

 

"Well, 99% of my patients that I take off Lexapro or Pristiq cold turkey show no signs of withdrawals whatsoever"

 

No, when they return with withdrawal symptoms she probably gets them to take the ADHD test and prescribes them Adderall   (NZ's cynicism is starting to rub off)

 

Again, seriously, do your research before your psycho appointment, remembering that they will probably already have a biased view towards ADHD from the doctor's referral.

 

You've joined a knowledgeable and supportive community here at SA.  And keep on asking any questions you want on this thread and posting your updates of how you are doing.

 

Wishing you all the best.  CC

[Dallasxd]

Dallas you did good!  Getting yourself through that appt, telling the doc some of your concerns, asking her about her actions.  Brave stuff.  I'm in my 30s and I find it hard to do stuff like that. 

 

Stopping the adderall - great. 

 

Reinstating a low dose of lexapro - doesn't feel great for you, but is a necessary step in finding your way out from under all this.  Bubble thought 10mg or less would be the place to start.  What are your instincts on that? 

 

Now - time to step up the self-care.  Are you taking magnesium and fish-oil?  They are the main things that help people through the w/d process.  And read, read, read - build your understandings of how all this works, and how it will be okay for you in the end.

 

Hugs,

Karen

 

Yeah my apologizes, in my very first post I had put 30 mg Lex but wasn't sure, Found out I was actually taking 20 mg. I took my first 10 mg pill this morning - I would have been more happy with starting on less than 10 mg. but already took the 10. As for multivitamins I don't take any, and I also don't eat very well so I know my body is probably missing a lot of essential nutrients. When purchasing multivitamins will basically anything get the job done or is it more complex than that? I was going to order this: https://www.a1supplements.com/optimum-nutrition-opti-men#collateral-tabsHas pretty much everything except the fish oil obviously which I would need to take separate. You can scroll down and view the nutrition facts to see everyhting in it. Let me know what you think!

 

 

 

 

[Dallasxd]

I'm also impressed with how you handled this Dallas.

 

Suggesting a dose for reinstating is tricky. I mentioned 10 mg because you said you were taking 30 less then a month ago (but weren't sure). If you took 10 already we will see how you feel over the next 4 days and reassess if it has become too much.

 

If you haven't started yet, it might be better to start with a lower dose.

 

More precise information about your last doses would be very helpful.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Multi quote isn't working for me so have to make two posts. I Appreciate the kind words, I should be able to update this thread at least once a day, I am wondering though how will I know if 10 mg has become too much? And since already taking the 10 mg is there no going back to 5? or am I just going to have to work around 10 now and have the longer taper process.

 

 

@CC thanks for the links I will check those out sometime later tonight.

[KarenB]

Dallas,

 

Since you've only had about 1-2 doses (I'm guessing) then it's probably fine to flick down to the 5mg and settle there. 

 

And multi-vitamins are too activating for people in w/d.  Find individual ones, and only start one at a time in low doses.  That way you know what to stop if it gives you trouble.  And avoid B especially.  Just start with magnesium and fish oil - see those links for details. 

 

You're really getting on track now.  It's a good idea to note down any symptoms you get, so you can make good decisions as you go. 

 

Karen

[bubble]

I would also go down to 5.

 

You will know if it is too much by how your symptoms develop: what happens with your anxiety levels and all the physical symptoms you've been having.

 

Some people feel an almost instant relief although we are waiting for 4 days to be more certain of trends. In your case I would expect a decrease in those physical symptoms you described in your first post.

 

I admire how level headed you are about all this. These as so awfully scary situations that many people can't help but panic...

 

Keep a good track of your symptoms, note them down and they will tell us if we are going in the right direction.

[Dallasxd]

Dallas,

 

Since you've only had about 1-2 doses (I'm guessing) then it's probably fine to flick down to the 5mg and settle there. 

 

And multi-vitamins are too activating for people in w/d.  Find individual ones, and only start one at a time in low doses.  That way you know what to stop if it gives you trouble.  And avoid B especially.  Just start with magnesium and fish oil - see those links for details. 

 

You're really getting on track now.  It's a good idea to note down any symptoms you get, so you can make good decisions as you go. 

 

Karen

Problem is I have 20 mg tablets right now which I'm cutting in half for 10 mg, so for 5 mg I have to get 10 mg so I can cut those in half right? And my mom is gonna ask me a million questions as to why I'm taking a lower dose than the doctor suggested. Unless there is an easy way to cut 20 mg into 5 mg that I can do on my own, and hmm okay I'll try and find mag/fish oil. What is wrong with Vitamin B? or is B referring to something else? I also don't see any links so I'm a bit confused as to which links you were directing me towards.

 

I would also go down to 5.

 

You will know if it is too much by how your symptoms develop: what happens with your anxiety levels and all the physical symptoms you've been having.

 

Some people feel an almost instant relief although we are waiting for 4 days to be more certain of trends. In your case I would expect a decrease in those physical symptoms you described in your first post.

 

I admire how level headed you are about all this. These as so awfully scary situations that many people can't help but panic...

 

Keep a good track of your symptoms, note them down and they will tell us if we are going in the right direction.

Problem right now is its hard to tell which symptoms are clearing up and which aren't because I also have a horrible cold that started a few days ago, so its hard to tell how much better I'm actually feeling until this clears up as well. I have only taken one dose of 10 mg, if I can find a way to cut my 20 mg tablet into 5 mg I can take 5 mg tomorrow morning.

[bubble]

It is important that we don't change our dose every day due to imprecise cutting of the pill, which is inevitable...

 

There are solutions but in your situation (your mom monitoring you) and today being the New Year's Eve this might not be so easy to do. I will tell you the options and you will see what can be done.

 

Lexapro comes in liquid form but you didn't get it and all you have are 20 mg pills from which it is very hard to get 5 mg. Many people including me prepare our own suspension of Lexapro.

 

All you need for that is a small jar with a lid and a 10 ml syringe (and one 5 ml). You can suspend a 20 mg pill of Lexapro in 20 ml of water measured with the syringe. Wait for it to get suspended, stir it and draw out 5 mg with the syringe. But given that your mom is obviously disapprovingly involved in this process and is supervising you quite closely this might be  a problem for you. I'm not from Canada but here we can easily and for very little money get syringes in ever pharmacy.

 

Check this thread again and see what is most feasible for you in your situation: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

 

Cold makes things blurry for sure but I'm sure you will be able to feel your withdrawal symptoms through your cold symptoms. 

 

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[KarenB]

Hey Dallas,

 

Yes B meant B-vitamins - that's my w/d brain in action .  B vitamins are too activating for many people in w/d (unless you were already taking them before getting into w/d). The links for mag/fish oil were in my previous post - just scroll back up a bit.  Or here: 

Now - time to step up the self-care.  Are you taking magnesium and fish-oil?  They are the main things that help people through the w/d process.  And read, read, read - build your understandings of how all this works, and how it will be okay for you in the end.

 

 

Another thought - colds/flu are a very common w/d symptom.  Note it down in your records.  You could also check out this list of w/d symptoms.

 

I remember being 21 and how tricky it was to set the new boundaries in my 'adult' relationships with my parents.  Esp if you still live with them.  If you come from a place of calm strength and confidence in what you have decided, that can go a long way.  Maybe voice a gentle reminder that you are an adult and in charge of your own health decisions?  Not easy, but look how well you did with the doctor.  Perhaps at best it will be an 'agree to disagree' situation, but at least that leaves you clear to manage this in the way you see best.

 

You're doing well Dallas,

Karen

 

Actually you could avoid the letter B, ut it might make for some izzare spellings..

[Sarabera]

Dallas, the experienced posters here have given you great advice, and I agree with them 100%. Just a couple of others things that might be helpful. Taking vitamins won't make up for a terrible diet--anything you can do to improve your diet is going to help with the healing a lot. Also, I have no idea if this applies to you, but doing a lot of video-gaming and other very stimulating/interactive computer stuff, can make young people have ADD/ADHD. Please let me know if you would like more information about this. If you can get outside just a bit every day and walk or some other type of exercise, it will pay off tremendously. I'm so glad you are looking at getting off the drug treadmill. I listened to my doctors, and now have been on ADs continuously for 34 years! Get off now while you are still young.

Sarah

[Dallasxd]

It is important that we don't change our dose every day due to imprecise cutting of the pill, which is inevitable...

 

There are solutions but in your situation (your mom monitoring you) and today being the New Year's Eve this might not be so easy to do. I will tell you the options and you will see what can be done.

 

Lexapro comes in liquid form but you didn't get it and all you have are 20 mg pills from which it is very hard to get 5 mg. Many people including me prepare our own suspension of Lexapro.

 

All you need for that is a small jar with a lid and a 10 ml syringe (and one 5 ml). You can suspend a 20 mg pill of Lexapro in 20 ml of water measured with the syringe. Wait for it to get suspended, stir it and draw out 5 mg with the syringe. But given that your mom is obviously disapprovingly involved in this process and is supervising you quite closely this might be  a problem for you. I'm not from Canada but here we can easily and for very little money get syringes in ever pharmacy.

 

Check this thread again and see what is most feasible for you in your situation: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

 

Cold makes things blurry for sure but I'm sure you will be able to feel your withdrawal symptoms through your cold symptoms. 

 

Best of luck and keep us posted.

Alright, I'm thinking of going to pick up the 10 mg tablets since I already got a prescription for it and then splitting that in half, would seem a lot easier. I just took my second dose of 10 mg this morning, would I still be alright to switch to 5 mg for tomorrow morning? I feel a bit better today, not much but slightly noticeable.

 

Hey Dallas,

 

Yes B meant B-vitamins - that's my w/d brain in action .  B vitamins are too activating for many people in w/d (unless you were already taking them before getting into w/d). The links for mag/fish oil were in my previous post - just scroll back up a bit.  Or here: 

Now - time to step up the self-care.  Are you taking magnesium and fish-oil?  They are the main things that help people through the w/d process.  And read, read, read - build your understandings of how all this works, and how it will be okay for you in the end.

 

 

Another thought - colds/flu are a very common w/d symptom.  Note it down in your records.  You could also check out this list of w/d symptoms.

 

I remember being 21 and how tricky it was to set the new boundaries in my 'adult' relationships with my parents.  Esp if you still live with them.  If you come from a place of calm strength and confidence in what you have decided, that can go a long way.  Maybe voice a gentle reminder that you are an adult and in charge of your own health decisions?  Not easy, but look how well you did with the doctor.  Perhaps at best it will be an 'agree to disagree' situation, but at least that leaves you clear to manage this in the way you see best.

 

You're doing well Dallas,

Karen

 

Actually you could avoid the letter B, ut it might make for some izzare spellings..

Haha, okay yeah I see the links now. I know some of my wd symptoms made me feel like I had the flu, but with this cold I think it may be an actual cold. I went out on Saturday with a friend for a bit just to get out of the house, spent the entire week in bed from wds, we stopped at the casino and a bunch of people there were coughing, woke up the next day with a horrible sore throat followed by my nose being so congested I had to breathe through my mouth to be able to sleep. I'm going to hopefully be able to stop at the store today and see what they have for mag/fish oil.

 

Dallas, the experienced posters here have given you great advice, and I agree with them 100%. Just a couple of others things that might be helpful. Taking vitamins won't make up for a terrible diet--anything you can do to improve your diet is going to help with the healing a lot. Also, I have no idea if this applies to you, but doing a lot of video-gaming and other very stimulating/interactive computer stuff, can make young people have ADD/ADHD. Please let me know if you would like more information about this. If you can get outside just a bit every day and walk or some other type of exercise, it will pay off tremendously. I'm so glad you are looking at getting off the drug treadmill. I listened to my doctors, and now have been on ADs continuously for 34 years! Get off now while you are still young.

Sarah

 

I haven't had much of an appetite since this happened but I'm working on my diet, I actually spend 8-10 hours a day (if not more) playing video games. I have done this as long as I can remember, so its funny you mention that. Maybe you're onto something, Idk. I have a treadmill downstairs I could use, not that up for actually going outside for a run right now though.