TobinEU: 18 months of horror

[TobinEU]

Hello everybody,let me share my story.Please excuse my english ,I´m not native english   .I´m male,40years old,married,have 5yrs old son with no previous psychiatric history(no one of my family had issues).Until my break down I was an outdoorsy man,mountain biker and was active person with outdoor media etc. It all happend in august 2014 when we went for holidays to Mallorca. I started to feel sick,thought it is something serious with stomach pain. Was put in hospital for apendix suspection -nothing approoved. Went back to hotel,still thinking have some cancer ,insomnia started altogether with panick attacks.

 

After return to home and many visits in hospital was marked as physically healthy  .Because anxiety and bad sleep my MD prescribed low doses of benzos which didnt help,so put me on Estan(escitalopram) 10mg.Forced to start 10mg gradually in three days I developped extreme anxiety,paranoia,insomnia and other hellish symptoms.I was 1000% worse than before.

 

 On my own request I was for three weeks in mental hospital.They stopped all medications,triyed some different meds but I had strange reactions.After three weeks with no progress I went back home with no meds,continuing anxiety and insomnia.I was so anxious that I was scared to go with my 4yr son to playground.

 

After two weeks i found a psychologist and psychiatrist.Psych started new protocol with Trittico(Remeron) which helped with sleep,but anxiety remains so we gradually increased dosage to 150mg.But after one month insomnia come again,anxiety persisted so I was switched cold turkey to Mirtazapine.

 

Four days later I was having bad nightmare that I was going to hurt my family.It caused serious breakdown(thought it was because quitting ct Remeron,but now I know it was Mirtazapine).I was suicidal so I was put on massive doses of benzos untill I settle down.Mirtazapin helped a little but after few weeks it looks like I adjusted and need higher dose,so we upped.And than again,so i finished on max dose with anxiety ongoing.It was in april.

 

So we lowered Mirtazapine and added Zoloft.After month i felt small relieve,but still anxiety even on dual combo of antidepressants.

 In May I found my wife is cheating on me for few months,so another breakdown for me.We split and I went to live to my mom´s not able to live just by my own.

 

 In July due to continuously being cold and feel sick I went to imunologist.He ran complete tests and found out I have chronic Lyme,Yersinia,Chlamidyae Pneu. and active herpes viruses(EBV).So i was put on six month therapy with trycyclic  antibiotics(Minocycline+Summamed combo).I had no side affects from them I suppose.I was better in summer.

 

 In august I went with my son for holidays and I forget Zoloft home.Nothing happend so I quit cold turkey with no consequences.My wife and me started to see each other again, I felt ok so I decided to move back to my family.

 

In september with approval of my psychiatrist a started tappering of Mirtazapine.It took one month from 30mg to zero with no side effects.My imunology tests was ok so I stoped antibiotics.But after about four weeks I started to feel anxiety again.I started to tak benzos ocassionaly but had to tak more and more,so my psych suggested to start Mirtazapin again.It helped immediatelly but week later I had anxiety back with suicidal thoughts.So I stopped cold turkey and was put on Cipralex(Lexapro).

 

I was surprised because it was the same group of SSRI which started this agony,but he convinced me to try.We started slowly.I have atypical reactions to all antidepressants -  SSRI - first 3days I felt rush(kind of hypomania) with sex needs(horny)but than fell down to depression.I felt more and more hopeless,insomnia come again and than suicidal thoughts.I found a different psychiatrist.She suggested to stick a little more with Lexapro.

 

This was before christmass.I was barely able to work and didnt want to ruin christmass so she suggested to wean of Leexapro and added Olanzapin.I was terrified by side effects of Olanzapine but had no choice.It helped with sleep and anxiety,but I was sure I want this quit as soon as possible.Just after few days I started feel big pain in knees,than shoulders,than in neck and arms.I also gained 2pounds(1kg) a week.So after four weeks I stopped cold turkey the same time i stopped Lexapro(after two weeks tappering off).

 

During christmass I found this web page which helped me a to make a decison which way I want to go.Stay on more and more meds doesnt seem good.No I´m two weeks without any medicine,just taking magnesium,D3 and Melatonin.Still anxious but can handle it for now.For those who felt angry to spouse and blaming them for your depresion I suggest to visit this web .

 

It si typical that feel need to leave and it is caused by depresion and meds.We have overcome that,but no one tells me that(nor my psychologist or psychiatrist or family counselor)so I´m happy I found that web and this one too.Thanx for reading.Tom

Edited January 25, 2016 by KarenB
added paragraph breaks

[nz11]

Wow Tom what a (horror) story (scripted by a doctor).

 

I am so glad you found sa.

Your English is perfect too by the way. I am so envious at people who can do more than one language.

 

I am so sorry the med prof have done this to you.

 

This was an interesting read.

 

"Psych started new protocol with Trittico(Remeron) which helped with sleep,but anxiety remains so we gradually increased dosage to 150mg.But after one month insomnia come again,anxiety persisted so I was switched cold turkey to Mirtazapine.Four days later I was having bad nightmare that I was going to hurt my family.It caused serious breakdown(thought it was because quitting ct Remeron,but now I know it was Mirtazapine).I was suicidal so I was put on massive doses of benzos untill I settle down.Mirtazapin helped a little but after few weeks it looks like I adjusted and need higher dose,so we upped.And than again,so i finished on max dose with anxiety ongoing.It was in april.So we lowered Mirtazapine and added Zoloft.After month i felt small relieve,but still anxiety even on dual combo of antidepressants."

 

Can you recall what dose mirtazapine they switched you to?

 

Heres the crazy thing ...remeron and mirtazapine are the same drug!

 

 

In september with approval of my psychiatrist a started tappering of Mirtazapine.It took one month from 30mg to zero with no side effects.My imunology tests was ok so I stoped antibiotics.But after about four weeks I started to feel anxiety again.I started to tak benzos ocassionaly but had to tak more and more,so my psych suggested to start Mirtazapin again

 

The anxiety effects after 4 weeks was actually the withdrawal symptoms from a too fast taper. Did you know the withdrawal symptoms can be delayed ...so when they manifest it is not a return of depression or anxiety it is the revealing of an iatrogenic injury - caused from the drug.

 

It is very clear the the doctors have been playing ping pong with your brain....and 'your drug has been your problem'

 

Hopefully finding sa will put a stop to this insane merry go round.

 

Others will be in shortly to give help and advice....and a welcome hug

 

Welcome.

 

nz11

Its just so not right that the same drug can hide behind a sea of different names

150 mg remeron (= 120 mg of prozac = 128 mg paxil) ! Thats not exactly a small dose  imo.

[TobinEU]

Hello, thanks for quick reply.I was switched from 100mg of Trittico to 15mg of Mirtazapin.After first pill of Mirtazapin I felt like I'm falling to elevator shaft with loud "whoom" an than I passed out.Next morning I tried to go to work,but had to go back home because I felt dizzy and faint. For the withdraval in September-I did not know anything about wd symptoms which can occur weeks after drug is stopped so I thought it is returning anxiety caused by I'm living back with my wife.How fool I was. I split with her once again,this time my fault and it took long time to convince her I love her and won't leave again(once again storiedmind web helped me understand whats going on).I'm mad by now to these drugs caused so much harm to our family especially to our little son who was desperate to not be with me. Hopefully we are now ok as family,bad memories left behind and we starting from beginning. But those anxiety and hopeless feelings comes back so I have to be patient.Good thing is that my thinking is much clearer, while on antidepressants it felt like time stopped and I'm trapped inside just surviving with nothig in positive progress.But how pride was I on myself from little things I was able to do despite brain fog and depression.I was shaking and anxious but still able to teach junior how to ride bike.Wasn't able to express my happiness but smile on his face guide me through darkness.God bless kids!

[nz11]

I felt like I'm falling to elevator shaft with loud "whoom" an than I passed out

When they took you from 150 (or 100 mg) remeron to 15mg that is exactly what it is like for the brain

 

Glenmullen has put together a 58 point checklist of wdl symptoms …worth looking at.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

It is highly likely you are going to get hit with delayed withdrawal symptoms soon. If you cannot cope a low dose ri is recommneded to try to alleviate the symptoms. Just rest assured it is not due to you the symptoms are due to the drug withdrawal. If you wish to consider this you could read this

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

Healing occurs in windows and waves so you might like to read this

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

 

You may like to try  fish oil and magnesium supplements.
http://survivinganti...acids-fish-oil/
http://survivinganti...hannel-blocker/

 

Here is a book rec maybe you can get it in your language.

Anatomy of an epidemic by Robert whitaker.

http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/1491513217

Your drug may be your problem by P Breggin.

 

Maybe you can get this in your language

http://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Psychiatry-Organised-Denial-Gotzsche-ebook/dp/B014SO7GHS

 

Stay strong.

You certainly have a lot to be proud of ...for one thing you have seen through this scam of medicine...not many accomplish that.

You will get better for sure.

[KarenB]

Welcome Tobin,

 

It sounds like you've started to find your way out of the drug-mess - good for you!  It makes me very angry too, how much peoples lives are affected by drugs.  I really do hope that your family connections will strengthen again.

 

I'm not sure how much you've read on this site, but a good place to start is What is Withdrawal Syndrome?  Anxiety and depression are just two of many w/d symptoms which can continue for a long time (months or years) after c/t or a fast taper. 

 

Normally we'd recommend reinstating a small amount to help with stabilisation.  You have had adverse reactions, but that may have been due to high doses, switching meds and c/ts.  A very small dose such as 1mg could give you relief.  You might like to read that thread so you understand the pros and cons.  You can come back to this thread to discuss it with us further. 

 

Then, if you choose that option, once you are stabilised you can gently taper using the 10% method which was designed to minimise w/d symptoms. 

 

You have discovered that learning natural ways to manage anxiety is a much better plan than taking drugs.  We have many suggestions for this here.  That's one of my favourite threads on this site, cause I had to learn to manage anxiety myself (and depression).  It can be done . 

 

I'm glad you are here,

Karen

[TobinEU]

If you cannot cope a low dose ri is recommneded to try to alleviate the symptoms - low dose of what please? I can buy and read books from Amazon so I will definitely look at these you suggest. Question is how do I have to tapper slowly if meds makes me suicidal and which one choose from that coctail I used to take previous months :-).

[TobinEU]

Another thing is that I never felt ok (anxiety free)long term on any of antidepresants I took,so now I'm confused what to do.My psychiatrist gave me three weeks to se how do I cope,but if I don't she want to try another drug,but I don't want to be guinea pig again.

[nz11]

Tom that is a very good question.

 

This is well worth reading Brain remodeling

 

You were on remeron/trillico/mirtz for 1 year...with a dash(heap) of this and that thrown in and pulled out  along the way.

My feeling is the trellis is of a remeron configuration. Perhaps a low dose ri of remeron might alleviate the symptoms imo.

Be interesting to see what others think.

 

The conundrum is the brain has been carpet bombed with a whole heap of stuff leaving it very sensitized and there are no guarantees in stabilizing easily.

 

Can you read the link Karen and i gave you on reinstating ...

 

"Start low to see what you need. You can always increase if necessary. If you've been off the drug for a month or more, many people can find relief from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms by reinstating as little as 1mg-5mg."

 

What do you think?

 

Regarding how to taper slowly you might want to get liquid for accurate tapering. As mentioned  the rate rec for tapering is 10% of previous dose per month.

Have a read of that link.

 

Let me try to put it in perspective for you say you were on 30mg of mirtz then at the 10% taper method you would taper for 34 months to get off safely however your doctor did it in one month! The trellis(the drug) was pulled away quickly and the vine(your brain) didnt have time to adjust so collapsed.

 

I  note when they ri you for 5 days on remeron in oct you had what appears to be an adverse reaction 'suicidal thoughts' so it was stopped. CT

What dose did they try to ri you on?

You may not be able to tolerate remeron any more. And there is the problem.

[Fresh]

Hi Tobin , welcome to the site.

 

I'm trying to be understand the exact course of your journey since last October , from your posts and signature.

 

What date did you stop lexapro? What dose were you taking before the 2 week taper?

 

I agree that you should probably try to stay away from all psychotropic meds. in the future.  You don't metabolize them - that's why you've had toxic reactions on start-up.

If you are going to try reinstating something , you will need to try just a tiny test dose.  

 

bw ,  Fresh

[nz11]

correction.

150mg remeron = 120 mg prozac = 102 mg paxil (not 128mg)

apologies

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Tobineu.
 
It sounds like you have bad reactions to SSRIs, starting with your introduction to escilatopram. Some people are genetically very sensitive to SSRIs. They can suffer major adverse effects after only a few tablets, and then have withdrawal-like symptoms for a long time after quitting. It sounds like you may be one of those people.
 
Going on and off drugs can make the nervous system distress worse.
 
So you've been off all drugs since the end of December?
 
What is your daily symptom pattern now? How has it changed since the end of December?
 
Please read What is withdrawal syndrome?
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[Petunia]

Welcome Tobin,

I'm sorry to read about everything you have been through, it all sounds very confusing to me too, how are you feeling now?

 

I think there has been a significant mistake and subsequent misunderstanding here.

 

After two weeks i found a psychologist and psychiatrist.Psych started new protocol with Trittico(Remeron) which helped with sleep,but anxiety remains so we gradually increased dosage to 150mg.But after one month insomnia come again,anxiety persisted so I was switched cold turkey to Mirtazapine.

 

 

Trittico is a brand name for Trazodone, not Remeron (Mirtazapine). 150mg of Trazodone is not an excessively high dosage of Trazodone.

 

Tobin was cold switched from Trazodone to Mirtazapine.

[KarenB]

Hey Tobin,

 

I have discussed reinstatement with the other mods in light of your adverse reactions to them, and we feel it's probably best not to reinstate.  Too much risk for you. 

 

You've been given a lot to consider in the posts above, so I'll leave it at that for now.

 

Karen.

[nz11]

Second apologies Tobin.

 

Sorry people i assumed trittico must have been another name for remeron  ...i should have checked it.

I had never heard of trittico before.

 

Lesson learned.

 

nz11

How does that saying go again about when you 'ass/u/me' !!

[TobinEU]

Thank you all!First I have to confirm I made a mistake with Trittico - it is not Remeron but Trazodone.What a mess in my head.Sorry!

I will read through the links you all posted above,just give me some time please.

 So I will try to recal what I have taken and reactions.Step by step.I will use only original meds names here in Czech.

 

15.9.2014 one week of 0,25mg Neurol(benzo)

 

21.9.-26.9.2014 Estan(escitalopram) first two days 5mg nex four days 10mg.Plus 1,5mg of Lexaurin(3* a day)

Extreme shakiness,insomnia,paranoia,depresonalisations,derealizations.

 

26.9. -15.10.2014  1,5mg of Lexaurin at night plus sometimes Hypnogen for sleep. During that 3 weeks in hospital they gave me after one week there one pill of Trittico(unknow dossage) - nothig happend.Next day another doctor changed medication to Fevarin(SSRI).I took only one pill - could not get sleep, feel excited and horny,with priapism.So thay stopped immediately.Rest of my stay there was only on Lexaurin and Hypnogen.Felt extremely anxious all the time and could not sleep.

 

22.10.2014 I started Trittico(together wint Lexaurin and Hypnogen)first week 50gm,second week 100mg,third week 150mg,fourth back to 100mg.

Sleep and anxiety was improving a little but after week or so it started to vanish so we upped dose.

 

22.11.2014 Cold turkey from Trittico.Started 7,5mg Mirtazapin(passed out on first pills) increased to 15mg in few days.After four days in Mirtazapin i had a massive breakdown.So for few weeks I took massive doses of Lexaurin(3mg 3xday)to help .After month I was better so I cut doses of Lexaurin.

 

22.11.2014 - 30.3.2015 every month raised doses of Mirtazapin 7,5-15-30-45mg.Last two weeks in march back to 30mg.Again after couple of weeks symptoms worsened so we upped dose.

 

04.2015 Mirtazapin 30mg + started Zoloft 2,5mg slowly increasing to 10mg in one month due to persisten anxiety.First few days I felt again excitement(happy),but unable to get sleep and was very horny.After that passed,every morning I took Zoloft I felt some kind of kick of energy within an hour,but after lunch anxiety was back.

I was trying to raise up to 15mg of Zoloft but it was too much.Zoloft side effects - not into sex much,delayed orgasm,

 

 06.2015 - 10.2015 i was on antibiotics for Lyme.These are trycyclic and can cause depression and depersonalisation but i didn´t notice worsening symptoms.I took Minocycline 50mg twice a day and Summamed 250mg three times a week.

 

In July and August 2015 I started to feel better,been socializing,doing sports.

10.8.2015 we went for holidays ,I forgot Zoloft home.Nothing happend I did not take it for a week so I quit Zoloft cold turkey.

 

1.9.2015 With this "positive" result i started to wean off Mirtazapine from 30mg to 0mg in one month.I was still anxious but felt antidepressants didn´t help 

and I was able to cope with anxiety (with some bad days when I took Lexaurin).

 

1.10.2015 free of drugs but felt increased episodes of anxiety.Thougth it was because I moved back to my wife and she is causing this so I left her and moved to my mum.Anxiety and insomnia was back.

 

30.10.2015 breakdown,I was taking Lexaurin daily.I took one pill of Mirtazapin 7,5mg.Felt great,slept .Next day feel newborn.Well so I continued to take it for about a week with 15mg dossage suggested by doc.Still on lexaurin.But anxiety raised againd together with depression and suicidal thoughts. So we stopped almost cold turkey.

 

10.11.2015 I started Cipralex(escitalopram) .I asked my doc why to take med from same group which started my misery but he convinced me to try.

Ve started slowly from 2,5mg to 10mg in one month(2,5mg every week).First three days the same  excitement and horny feelings,but after three days  drop down to anxiety and depression.Still on lexaurin.During that month I went to another psychiatrist.She suggest to wait a little longer on Cipralex.But anxiety was increasing and also depression and suicidal thought appears after one month.Also significal weight loss due to low apetite.Not into sex,delayed orgasm side efect.

 

23.12.2015 I was almost collapsing.New doc agreed to wean off Cipralex in next two weeks,because it was harming me so much and I could not handle that any more.

To survive christmas and help with sleep she gave me Olanzapine.I was shocked why antipsychotics for sleep,also by side effects and horror stories on internet so i took only 2,5mg instead of 5mg she suggested.I was taking 2,5mg till i stopped in January.

It helped me so much.I slept well and anxiety was almost gone just after one pill,so christmas was ok.

I also quit lexaurin(benzo) and didn´t have any since that.But after few days on Olanzapin I started craving for food,specially sweets.I gained two pounds every week.Also strong pain in my big joints appeared.First in my hips,like someone smashed you with hammer.It stopped and moved to shoulders,than to knees,than to my neck and arms.

I felt tired all the time.Really weird.I was terrified so I asked her I want to stop.She told me to stop cold turkey.

It was 15.01.2016 the same day I took last pill of Cipralex.

 

During christmas I found SA web when searching for Olanzapin side effects and stories

 

Now I´m without any meds.I took only suplements - magnesium,Omega3,D3 and Melatonin.

 

I sleep almost well for about 6hours(my usuall sleep is 7-7,5hours) since 15.01.2016

I feel owerall better than on antidepresants,but anxiety is still present - mostly managable,but some days are worst than others.

 

Tom

[Petunia]

Thank you for clarifying your details Tobin.

 

Is it correct that you have been drug free for about 2 weeks and are generally feeling better, but with a little anxiety?  In your signature you have:

 

01/2015 stopped Cipralex after two weeks of tappering and also stopped Olanzapine cold turkey because side effects.Now with no meds.

 

Should this be 2016?

 

I think, given your history of nothing helping and severe adverse effects, if I were you I would stay away from psychiatric drugs from now on and look for non-drug ways to manage your anxiety.

 

Cognitive behavioral therapy can be very effective for anxiety, including health anxiety, which sounds like what you originally had.

 

Also see:  Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms 

and  The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

[TobinEU]

Petuina,thank you for stopping by  .

Actually I was just going to write an update.About Cipralex you are right it Should be 01/2016 .

 

So last full dose of Cipralex(10mg) on about 22.12.2015 than gradulay tappering till 0mg on 16.january 2016.

 

Xanax 1mg SR taken twice a day from mid november till 23.12.2015.Than not needed because of Olanzapin did the job.

 

Olanzapin(2,5mg) from about 23.12.2015 to 16.1.2016.Olanzapin help a lot with psychical issues (bad reaction to Cipralex went out almost overnight)I slep very vell,but I promise to myself to take it max 3-4weeks.I laso had physical side effects from it.

 

Firs week without meds was mostly fine with light to medium anxiety.I slept well.

 

Bad thing is WD hit strong encreasedly since this monday(25.1.2016).

Anxiety is back at almost fullforce,I wake up soon(about 2am this night).And Im barely able to go to work.

Thanx to this site I donť panic that much and Im standing to fight(not taking Xanax or other meds).

But hey, this has been my pattern on all AD´s all the time.For few days or weeks I felt a little ok and than anxiety was back.

 

Now i feel very anxious,kind of detached,with crying spells,easilly irritated and selfcentered/focused.

Can´t enjoy music,book or movie now,just surviving hour after hour.

 

I´v red topic about nero-emotions - it is me since august 2014 and meds didn´t help me at all.

When I crushed back than I felt so much stress - waves of cortisol pumpign into my body(my kidneys and testicals was in massive pain)

and I remember I thought "man,this is going to be seroius".And it was.

 

Thank you for all your support guys !

Tom

[nz11]

Thanks for clarifying everything.

 

Thanx to this site I donť panic that much and Im standing to fight(not taking Xanax or other meds).

Good for you

 

But hey, this has been my pattern on all AD´s all the time.For few days or weeks I felt a little ok and than anxiety was back.

That anxiety is withdrawal symptoms

 

Now i feel very anxious,kind of detached,with crying spells,easilly irritated and selfcentered/focused.

Can´t enjoy music,book or movie now,just surviving hour after hour.

These are classic withdrawal symptoms ...this is exactly how it was for me too. The name of the game at this stage is survival and hang on.

 

Hang in there. Dont let it frighten you. Many here are going through the exact same stuff.

[TobinEU]

Question:is it safe to take some benzos in withdrawal? If yes how much and how often? I ask because Lexaurin was the only one which worked for my anxiety with not much side effects. And a have now a lot of anxiety.

[Fresh]

Hi Tobin , welcome to the site.    Sorry to hear things are getting rough for you. 

 

"Xanax 1mg SR taken twice a day from mid november till 23.12.2015.Than not needed because of Olanzapin did the job"

 

Benzos can help to dampen withdrawal symptoms , but they do have their own problems.   Usually you build up a tolerance 

within weeks to small doses , and require more and more to get the same effect.   After a couple of weeks of regular use , you may need to taper in order to avoid w/d symptoms.

 

You're going to need to develop some non-drug means of handling anxiety.  

It's quite likely that over the next weeks your symptoms will follow a similar pattern to the previous times after you stopped all meds.  as per your signature.

 

 

 

[nz11]

Tobin as Fresh says if you take this stuff dependence will be quickly established and you will have to taper it.

 

My opinion is to say NO to all psychotropic drugs.

Read the Whitaker 'anatomy' book he talks about the benzo trap.

In wdl i was offered it and i didnt take it i chose suffering.

 

I am not going to sugar coat this.

It is going to be rough for some time.

You will need to concentrate on surviving it.

You can do it.

 

Keep us updated, post whenever you need to.

People here will come in and support and encourage you.

[TobinEU]

Appreciate all your advices and encouragement you give me. I am reading only my topic and successful stories because I have no power to read anything else so if you're still struggling I wish you all the best. Can't thank you enough.

[TobinEU]

How can I know that my condition is from withdrawal and not returning anxiety/depression?I have no physical symptoms like pain,flu,brain zaps etc.

Just worsened anxiety,depression.Suffering with sleep deprivation whole time since 08/2014.The anxiety is sometimes debilitating and malfunctioning me.

Suffering from anxiety since begining ,with no relief while using any AD´s.Now I feel the same way I was feeling when starting AD but I overcame that

by swalloving benzos.So frustrating.

[nz11]

Because people who never had any anxiety or depression before taking this stuff, given it for a sore toe or whatever, experience the exact same phenomena.

 

My feeling is push the delete button on previous issues and go with wdl.

What you call anxiety /depression is really withdrawal symptoms. This is something the medical profession dont want to know about because then they would have to acknowledge that they have harmed someone.

 

If you go to the doc to 'take it away' he will simply drug you with dangerous chemicals as per past experience. The problem with be seen as a faulty you not the drug wdl.

 

The anxiety withdrawal is sometimes debilitating and malfunctioning me.

yes that is what wdl is like.

 

You might want to clarify your drug sig by changing

 

11/2014 Trittico(Remeron) from 50mg up to 150mg for one month - stopped cold turkey,switched to Mirtazapine

 

to

 

11/2014 Trazodone (Trittico) from 50mg up to 150mg for one month - stopped cold turkey,switched to Mirtazapine

 

I am sorry you are suffering like this. Wishing you strength

[TobinEU]

I have to clarify my anxiety.I had a panic attack years ago when I had cough for three months and due to this I was suffocating in sleep which caused one single attack.Also after our son was born I started to become anxious about him-more than usual.Which led to my anxiety collapse on holidays when I thought I have some serious illness. So about month before I started first AD's I was experiencing panic like attacks and on-going anxiety with insomnia.AD's worsened my symptoms to living hell.Thats why I'm asking.What do you think?

[KarenB]

Anxiety (and depression) are not conditions that we have all the time.  They are not our 'pre-existing' condition.  They are a response to difficult events or on-going traumas, or a signal to us to take some action or solve a problem. 

 

All of those times of anxiety you mention above are based in an experience.  This is when we need to know tools for managing anxiety.  We can soothe our way through it, or make the changes we realise we need to make in our lives, and gradually the anxiety will settle down again.  

 

So, if you aren't having a particular experience that would cause anxiety atm (and I reckon w/d is one such trauma) then the anxiety will be w/d induced.  And  possibly amplified due to neur-emotions.   

 

Getting some techniques under your belt will see you a long way - Emotional Freedom Technique, CBT, guided meditations - there are a lot of options. 

[TobinEU]

I'm wondering if I'm also in benzo withdrawal.As I'm trying to remember, I was taking them almost constantly since August 2014.With some breaks but no more than one or two weeks windows. It was in a waves. When anxiety hit hard I took lexaurin 1,5mg three times a day and then cutting dose and frequency to zero and than again. Last benzo I took was at 23.12.15.Could I have also benzo withdrawal?Don't have headaches or other physical symptoms, just anxiety and sleep difficulties. Any suggestions? Should I reinstate?Thank you. Tom

[nz11]

Could I have also benzo withdrawal?

yes i think that could be one of several  players here.

Don't have headaches or other physical symptoms, just anxiety and sleep difficulties. Any suggestions?

Should I reinstate?

Can you manage the anxiety drug withdrawal symptoms?

If it is primarily the sleep you are worried about then I wouldnt be considering taking something for this ..... did you consider the ideas in post post #4.

You may like to try  fish oil and magnesium supplements.
http://survivinganti...acids-fish-oil/
http://survivinganti...hannel-blocker/

 

Many going through withdrawal have sleep issues. myself included.

[TobinEU]

Thank you nz11 for stopping by and giving advices. I think in my case AD's was worsening anxiety and I bet them with benzos.Bad circle for year and half.I take supplements-magnesium 600mg,fish oil 1200,D3 and Melatonin 1mg. I sleep about 5hours thanks to Melatonin which is not bad for now.What is really bad is almost unbearable anxiety at times,specially in the morning-cortisol spikes,I know.I do some deep breathing,autogenic relaxation,cbt self talk but with very little reliefe.So from my point of view I do fight on two fronts, AD's and benzos and I'm looking for more ways to help myself. That's why I'm asking about benzo reinstatement to reduce symptoms and avoid proctracted withdrawal since I'm not willing to reinstate AD's due to severe reaction.What do you guys think?

[nz11]

Should I reinstate?

If you are referring to taking a benzo then my suggestion is NO ..dont go there dont open the door to another addiction.

 

What you are suffering may go on for many months ...if you try to take a benzo for it dependency will be established perhaps within a week.

You are going to try to fix a wristwatch with a sledge hammer ... do you expect it to do no harm?

 

"In every way the results painted a powerful portrait of the  benzo trap:  This was a drug that worked for a short time , then its efficacy over a placebo petered out and yet when patients tried to go off the drug, they became quite sick and many couldnt kick the habit. The first few weeks of relief came at a very high long term cost, with those stuck on the drug - as previous benzo studies had shown - likely to end up physically, emotionally , and cognitively impaired."  Whitaker Anatomy pg 297.

 

Its not easy in the mornings tell me about it ...but it will recede in time ..i had to wait about 16 months to get a window.

Your job is to just survive thats all you have to do and one can only do it one day at a time.

You can do this.

[TobinEU]

Thank you for explaining. What I have red on benzo websites,when you take them for long time it's advised to tapper slowly than go could turkey, which can lead to prolonged and severed withdrawal.And I did went cold turkey at Christmas from Xanax 1+1mg/day.

[nz11]

In Whitakers book on page 297 he is actually referring to the xanax study ...

 

Whitaker writes on xanax:

 

Xanax was approved by the FDA as an anti-anxiety agent in 1981, and then Upjohn set out to get it approved panic disorder, which had been newly identified as a discrete condition for the first time in DSM III (1980).

 

As a first step it hired former NIMH director GeraldKlerman to co-chair its "steering committee" for the testing process and it paid Daniel Freedman editor of the Archives of General psychiatry to be an assistant to its division of medical affairs.

 

This was just part of the company's efforts to co-opt academic psychiatry: "The most senior psychiatrists in the world were flooded with offers of consultancies" from Upjohn, said Isaac Marks, an expert in anxiety disorders at the Institute of psychiatry in London.

 

Klerman and Upjohn designed Upjohn's cross national collaborative panic study in a manner that could be expected to produce a poor placebo response.

 

Patients who had been on benzo's were allowed into the study, which meant that many in the placebo group would in fact be going through the horrors of benzo withdrawal, and thus could be expected to be extremely anxious during the first weeks of the trial. Nearly one fourth of the placebo patients had traces of benzos in the blood when the treatment period began.

Benzos are known to work quickly, and that proved true in the study. At the end of four weeks, 82% of the xanax patients were moderately improved or better versus 43% of the placebo group. However during the next four weeks, the placebo patients continued to improve, while the Xanax patients did not, and by the end of the eighth week there was no significant difference between the groups on most of the rating scales, at least among the patients who remained in the study. The Xanax group also experienced a variety of troubling side-effects: sedation, fatigue, slurred speech, amnesia, and poor coordination. One of every 26 Xanax patients suffered a serious reaction to the drug, such as mania or aggressive behaviour.

At the end of eight weeks the patients were tapered from the medication for four weeks and then followed while medication free for another two weeks. The results were predictable. 39% of those withdrawn from Xanax deteriorated significantly, there panic and anxiety skyrocketing to such an extent they had to start taking the medication again. 35% of the Xanax patients suffered rebound panic and anxiety symptoms more severe than when the study began, and an equal percentage suffered a host of debilitating new symptoms, including confusion, height and sensory perceptions, depression, feeling that insects were crawling over them, muscle cramps, blurred vision, diarrhoea, and decreased appetite, and weight loss.
 

In sum, at the end of 14 weeks the drug exposed patients were worse off than the placebo group: They were more phobic, more anxious, more panic stricken, and doing worse on a 'global scale' that assessed overall wellbeing. 44% had been unable to get off the drug, on their way to a lifetime of addiction. In every way the results painted a powerful portrait of the  benzo trap:  This was a drug that worked for a short time , then its efficacy over a placebo petered out and yet when patients tried to go off the drug, they became quite sick and many couldnt kick the habit. The first few weeks of relief came at a very high long term cost, with those stuck on the drug - as previous benzo studies had shown - likely to end up physically, emotionally , and cognitively impaired." 

The Upjohn investigators published three articles in the Archives of Gen psychiatry in May 1988, and anyone who carefully reviewed the data could see the harm caused by  Xanax.

 

In order for Xanax to be successfully marketed, Upjohn needed its investigators to draw a different sort of conclusion, and so they did, particularly in the abstracts of the three articles.

 

First, they focus their attention on the four-week results (rather than the eight week outcomes at the end of the treatment period), announcing that xanax was found to be effective and well tolerated. Next they noted that 84% of the Xanax patients had finished the eight week study, which was evidence that "patient acceptance of Xanax was high."

 

Although their Xanax patients regularly exhibited such problems as "slurred speech, amnesia" and other signs of "impaired mentation", they still concluded that the drug had few side-effects and is well tolerated.

 

Finally, while they acknowledge that some xanax patients fared poorly when the drug was withdrawn, they reasoned that it had been used for too shorter period and the withdrawal done too abruptly. We recommend that patients with panic disorder be treated for a longer period, at least six months, they said.

In London, Isaac Marks and several of his colleagues at the Institute of psychiatry subsequently pointed out how transparently ridiculous this all was.

 

In the letter to the Archives of General psychiatry they observed that since the Xanax patients "were in a worse state than patients receiving placebo" at the end of the study, the finding by the Upjohn investigators that the drug was effective and well tolerated can only be seen as" biased and arguable."

 

The entire affair, Marks subsequently wrote, is a classic demonstration of the hazards of research funded by industry.

 

Yet the fact that the Xanax patients came to such a bad end, with many on a path to a lifelong addiction, did not deter Upjohn, Klerman, the APA, and the NIMH from touting Xanax's benefits to the American public.

 

The same marketing machinery that had made Prozac a bestseller was rolled out again.

 

Upjohn sponsored a symposium on the APA's 1988 meeting where the "expert panel" highlighted the four-week results.

 

Robert Pasnau, who had been head of the APA in 1987 sent a  glossy booklet on the Consequences of Anxiety to APA members, an "educational" effort paid for by Upjohn. Both Shervert Frazier and Gerald Klerman penned a "Dear Doctor" letter that Upjohn included in the promotional literature it sent to doctors about Xanax as a treatment for panic disorder.

 

Upjohn also gave 1.5 million to the APA so that it could mount a DART - like campaign to educate psychiatrists healthcare workers in the public about panic disorder which was said to be underrecognized and undertreated.

 

Finally the the NIMH chipped in to identifying panic disorder as a priority concern sponsoring a conference in 1991 on it, with its panel of experts designating "high potency benzos" this would be Xanax - as one of the two" treatments of choice."

The FDA approved xanax as a treatment for panic disorder in November 1990, and many newspapers and magazines ran the usual features.

 

IN A PANIC? HELP IS ON THE WAY, a Saint Louis Post-Dispatch headline announced. Treatment, the paper said, helped 70 to 90% of those with the debilitating condition, which afflicted 4 million adults in this country.

 

The associated press explained that a  "biochemical malfunctioning in the brain is believed to be one of the causes of panic attacks. Xanax can block the attacks by interacting with several different systems in the brain."

 

In the Chicago Sun Times Dr John Zajecka at Rush Medical college in Chicago announced that "Xanax is the fastest acting and least toxic" of medications for this disorder. Once again a very effective safe drug had arrived on the market, and in 1992, Xanax became the fifth most frequently prescribed medication in the United States.

 

Whitaker Anatomy pg295- 299

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[TobinEU]

Ok,so I have to be strong and hope for the best :-) Good thing is I had a window yesterday afternoon till night,after a week of real struggle. Have a nice day nz11.

[Fresh]

Hi Tobin ,   there is a Members Only Benzo forum here ,   you might pose your questions there for input from our

benzo experts.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-forum/

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[TobinEU]

Thank you Fresh.

[TobinEU]

I´ve red what Alto write and this is exactly me including that part being kept on  :People who have immediate adverse reactions to serotonergics often have severe symptoms for quite a while -- symptoms very much like withdrawal syndrome -- and take a long time to recover.

 

Yes,I have been expiriencing that after only five pills of Escitalopram.I was so irritated I could not stand any family members in room(just my mom),could not watch tv,listen to music.I was shaking,trembling.Sever insomnia.If someone said something disturbing when I was hospitalised,like commenting about ebola , I could not sleep whole night and was shaking in massive fear.

 

So after 1,5month still struggling with anxiety and fierce insomnia I was put on another AD´s together with benzos and my saga started.

 

Bad luck hey?