☼ primrose: Tapering off Valium, others

[primrose]

Hi and thanks

 

Something really strange is happening to me.

 

I went back on my full dose of trazodone a few days after that c/t and got back to normal.

 

I have been holding my valium taper for a couple of weeks, and on Tuesday, after discussing with my doctor started a 10% taper off seroquel.

 

I dont know why nut I started burning up last night and have been sweating all day today.

 

I am sure it's not the seroquel as I made a very modest cut on Tuesday, now down to 135mg per day instead of 150mg and it can't be the valium withdrawals because I have tapered that really slowly, and have held for two weeks.

 

My doctor is sending me for blood tests which I have to attend next Friday.

I told her I had already had a blood test in January but because I never heard anything I assumed it was ok, but when my doctor checked this out, I had a slightly elevated white blood cell count, and my doctor said an infection could cause the elevated white blood cell count.

 

I just want to stop sweating. I'm cold but when I put a jumper on I sweat. I can't even have a slow walk to the shops without sweating like a horse, and I wake up wet.

[Altostrata]

My intuition is you're trying to make too many drug changes at once, primrose. Two weeks might not be enough to have stabilized on the Valium.

 

The symptoms are from nervous system destabilization brought on by the Seroquel dosage change.

[primrose]

Hi

 

I have a question please.

 

I have just found out that seroquel has a half life of six hours. http://www.weitzlux.com/seroquel/halflifeofseroquel_402765.html

 

From my experience of reading benzo forums, for benzos with short half lives (around 6hrs), people on there suggest taking the drug every 6 hours, so that there is an even level in the blood.

There is no scientific information on this, but to me it seems logical.

 

My question is, should I go from taking the drug every 12 hours to every 6?

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

primrose, you can eliminate the confounding variable of withdrawal symptoms by holding on your reduction. If your symptoms go away, they probably were caused by withdrawal.

[primrose]

primrose, you can eliminate the confounding variable of withdrawal symptoms by holding on your reduction. If your symptoms go away, they probably were caused by withdrawal.

 

Hi Alto

 

Yes I have no plans to cut my quetiapine at this moment.

[primrose]

Got a bit impatient and decided to cut my quetiapine by another 10% to 120mgs.

 

I was feeling 'stuck' and that 'stuck' feeling got the better of me, and it just felt too depressing to wait another two weeks.

This way, I feel like I am moving on with my meds.

 

No sweating this last few days and I feel ok.

 

If worse comes to worse I can always go back up, but I am optimistic.

[Altostrata]

Please do not count on being able to updose to quell withdrawal symptoms. Updosing does not always work.

[primrose]

Please do not count on being able to updose to quell withdrawal symptoms. Updosing does not always work.

 

Thanks.

I think I should be ok as I have only cut 15mgs.

I was on 200mg seroquel and cut 50mg in July without any probs.

Won't make that big a cut again of course

[Altostrata]

primrose, you want to believe that it's going to be much easier to get off Seroquel than a benzo. I hope for your sake that this is true for you. It's not true for everyone.

 

In the States, we have a saying, "No crying in baseball." It's a game: If you lose, you don't complain.

 

Unfortunately, that's not the case in drug withdrawal. Play games, and there can be plenty of crying, with no appeals to the umpire or going back for do-overs.

[primrose]

primrose, you want to believe that it's going to be much easier to get off Seroquel than a benzo. I hope for your sake that this is true for you. It's not true for everyone.

 

In the States, we have a saying, "No crying in baseball." It's a game: If you lose, you don't complain.

 

Unfortunately, that's not the case in drug withdrawal. Play games, and there can be plenty of crying, with no appeals to the umpire or going back for do-overs.

 

Hi Thanks

 

I've been in this withdrawal game three and a half years and it's a total trap.

No freedom and tied to meds.

I waited two weeks before I cut the seroquel. I then began to feel stuck, like I was not moving and the psychological stress of this just made me downhearted.

 

I know some unfortunate people have real problems coming off these types of drugs plus antidepressants. I think it is because, according to experiences of people I have read in the past, some develop sensitivities to these drugs, so everything and anything can affect them, and others develop paradoxical reactions to drugs, i.e. they report feeling worse when they take them.

 

I sweated a little today, but not in bed and I did have a synthetic thick hoodie jumper on.

[Altostrata]

I'm not the umpire. You have to negotiate your taper with your own nervous system.

 

You can push it too far. If you break it, you buy it. You're welcome to participate on this site for as long as it takes for you to recover.

 

The next time you get symptoms that might be because of a dosage change, you know what to do: Stop changing the dosage and see if the symptoms go away. There's no need to discuss this again.

[primrose]

Hi

 

I just thought I would post an update. I abandoned my seroquel taper and resumed my valium taper at 0.009mgs per day.

Once off the valium I will start again on the seroquel with a different plan.

 

My seroquel taper went ok until I reached 105mgs. Then my sweats worsened and are only just calming down now.

The problem is, I cannot get liquid seroquel from my doctor, and the tablet is not soluble.

I was working with a suspension and not getting the same dose each day.

 

I now halve my tablets with a pill cutter, but I noticed also, that I am not getting the correct dose as the halves are not equal. To do this I have had to slightly go back up in dose, as it was not possible to get 105mgs from dry cuts.

 

I cannot afford the suspending vehicles, so when I come to tapering the seroquel I may try a yoghurt, because, while it is still a suspension, in a thicker vehicle, the particles are not likely to go down to the bottom of the jar as they would with water.

[primrose]

Hi Everyone.

 

I have lost a bit of valium since I posted last.

 

I got down to 2.4mg a day, but have been feeling a bit up-and-down.

 

I just realised that it's probably not the valium that is causing it. I think, after all this time, I have realised what the cause is.

Interdose withdrawals from the trazodone and seroquel.

They only have short half lifes, so I am going to take them every 6 hours instead of every 8 hours.

I'm not increasing my dose.

Instead of 100mg trazodone every 8 hours, I am going to ask my doctor if I can have 25mg pills to take 75mg every 6 hours.

You'll notice that the 112.5mg seroquel is missing, this is because I cut my dose to 100mg, taking 25mg every 6 hours.

 

I recently did an updose of valium back to 2.7mg and have been holding, I intend to hold a bit longer as I dont want to be cutting valium while I have just cut 12.5mg off my seroquel.

 

My normal doctor is not available, so lets hope the stand in doc will agree to my request.

 

I think I will feel less up-and-down.

[primrose]

I am sorry to hijack your thread Hippo, I would just like to ask members a question please?

 

It's been ten days since I cut my seroquel.

I woke up with worse anxiety today, and I wondered if it could be from the seroquel, and if so, how come it has waited ten days to show?

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Here's your thread for your questions about your own taper, primrose.

 

If you have symptoms you might think are withdrawal, perhaps you should hold on any changes in any of your medications for a bit.

[tezza]

Sometimes it can take a while for withdrawal symptoms to kick in. That's why some people think they've gotten away with cold-turkey. I'm not sure why this happens, the discontinuance of psychotropic meds is very unpredictable.

 

One may leave a med off and not feel the WD symptoms until a few months later.

[hippopotamus]

Primrose, I'm sorry to read you've had worse anxiety. How did you feel yesterday? Any better?

 

Here's a hug to you! : HUG

[Skyler]

Primrose... I'm glad to see you have a "Home of your own!" Hope you feel improvement soon.

[primrose]

Hi Rhi

 

Since writing that I have held my benzo for a few weeks and it felt like the holding was making me feel worse, so I am in doubt again now.

[Altostrata]

primrose, I moved your post here.

 

You've also changed the Seroquel dose. This will affect your symptoms as well.

[Skyler]

You've also changed the Seroquel dose. This will affect your symptoms as well.

Hi Primrose.. my experience with diazepam says it's not the hold that made you feel worse, but the seroquel cut. I've been holding the benzo now for some months with no problem. Have you read the tolerance WD thread? The idea was pretty much debunked, see what you think?

 

Skyler

[primrose]

Hi

 

I am currently tapering valium, but am finding that other worries I have are making symptoms feel worse in the way that excess worries and concerns can delay a taper.

 

One of my worries is this. I take trazodone, 300mg a day, and I am worried that when I come to tapering it, I will have to jump at 50mg and suffer.

This is because, in the uk, we don't get 50mg trazodone pills, even though they do exist. We only have 50mg capsules. Maybe it's a cost thing.

Anyway, I was talking with my pharmacist, about when the time comes for me to taper trazodone, and she thinks that I will not be able to go lower than 50mg, because the powder inside the capsule is not designed for cutting.

I emptied a trazodone capsule into a glass of water and it just went into this weird mass in the middle.

 

The fact that I am going to have to jump off my trazodone at 50mgs, makes every thing I do now seem pointless, because I am already suffering terrible depression and as I have been suicidal in the past, I am worried that a 50mg jump in trazodone will make me suicidal.

 

I know that there is a liquid form of trazodone, but my doctor said I am not allowed that. The only people who are allowed that are those who cannot eat properly and cannot dose orally.

 

Please help me find a solution, because this worry is actually causing me to feel worse and that is slowing my valium taper.

 

Many thanks

[Sparrow]

Primrose, perhaps you could get one of those special digital scales. Then you could open the capsule and make small, measurable cuts to the dry contents.

 

So sorry you're having an especially difficult time right now. I'm just coming off a horrible wave of intense depression and know how much it hurts.

 

Hang in there. You're going to beat this.

 

Sparrow

[primrose]

Primrose, perhaps you could get one of those special digital scales. Then you could open the capsule and make small, measurable cuts to the dry contents.

 

So sorry you're having an especially difficult time right now. I'm just coming off a horrible wave of intense depression and know how much it hurts.

 

Hang in there. You're going to beat this.

 

Sparrow

 

Hi Sparrow and thanks for your post.

 

I remember Rhi saying here, http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2883-tips-for-tapering-off-trazodone-desyrel/, that insolubility never stopped her dividing drugs, and that reassured me to a certain extent, but trazodone is light sensitive according to this link, so by the time I have emptied the powder out, the light is already degrading it.

Here is the link which suggests it is light sensitive http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?id=33648

 

I am glad you are coming off your horrible wave. I just want to rejoin the world instead of watching everyone else.

[tezza]

Sparrow, that's a great suggestion!

[Sparrow]

The link says only that the pills should be stored away from light, unless I've missed something. Why do you think that opening the capsule would result in instant degradation from exposure to light?

[starlitegirlx]

Wait, trazadone comes in tablet forms too, if I remember correctly. I took it in tablet for PRN use to help me sleep. Not capsules. Get the tablets and titrate them. Perhaps crush them then add them to water. See if you can get a few from the pharmacy to see if there is this same congealing problem. I don't think there will be if it's in tablet form. You should be able to crush them then put it in liquid and titrate after shaking. Hopefully the tablets are different enough to allow for titration.

[primrose]

Wait, trazadone comes in tablet forms too, if I remember correctly. I took it in tablet for PRN use to help me sleep. Not capsules. Get the tablets and titrate them. Perhaps crush them then add them to water. See if you can get a few from the pharmacy to see if there is this same congealing problem. I don't think there will be if it's in tablet form. You should be able to crush them then put it in liquid and titrate after shaking. Hopefully the tablets are different enough to allow for titration.

 

Hi Starlite and Sparrow, still stuck I am afraid.

 

I know 50mg tablets are available, it's just that we cannot get trazodone in tablet form in the UK, I already checked. Capsules only here, probably to do with cost.

 

 

Sparrow

 

Here's another link to show traz is light sensitive. Factsandcoparisons.com got a list of drugs from PubMEd and they said that the authors of this list had the same problem when trying to compile a list. Trazodone is on the list. There is some information about light sensitive drugs and degradation and a list here http://www.factsandcomparisons.com/common/PDF/20091201_Dec2009_peer4.pdf

 

http://www.factsandcomparisons.com/common/PDF/20091201_Dec2009_peer4.pdf

[Sparrow]

Prim, they're talking about bulk storage here -- pharmacies that have to keep quantities in stock over time. Keep away from light and moisture, pretty standard.

 

Not seeing anything that would contraindicate opening the capsule for a few minutes to do what you'd need to do.

 

Sparrow

[Altostrata]

primrose, you seem to have a bad habit of obsessing over 1) technicalities that others, such as Rhi, have already addressed and 2) stuff that's going to happen way in the future.

 

There is no need -- period -- for you to have that particular worry about trazodone, and there's no need to worry about it NOW.

 

Perhaps you could work on your habit of worrying?

[SaveMooses]

Hi! I went thought the same thing, worrying about every tiny thing, and I realize right now you are having a very hard time controlling it. That also can be part of withdrawing. Please just hang in there, don't jump around with your dosages, breathe, try to relax in other ways. Breathing exercises, meditate in the sun, long baths, whatever you can do for YOU. Everyone has different things that work for them.

When I jumped off Lexapro, it was about a month of Hell before I reinstated. Alto gave me the best advice, and it saved me. Not kidding. Most of my withdrawal symptoms were cut in half by the next day. It has taken almost two years, but I can now attest to making it to the other side.

I just wanted to write and tell you that there is HOPE! You can do it! Your journey may differ from mine, but there is hope here on this site. Just hang in there. Xoxo!

[starlitegirlx]

I'm in agreement with others about not worrying so far into the future. Take it slow. One drug at a time. Save the trazadone till last and by then you might find a way to safely taper. That gives you years to find the best solution for it.

[primrose]

Hi Everyone and thanks for each of your replies

 

Sparrow, thanks for explaining about the bulk thing, that makes sense.

 

Alto, I suffer anxiety, but it is made worse by the benzo withdrawal induced anxiety. I cannot really do anything about the benzo withdrawal induced anxiety, it kinda takes over. Just like Savemooses mentions.

Before I posted this, I did consider that it is in the future, and not a problem right now, but it was hanging over my head and this triggered intrusive thoughts and feelings around it.

 

Rather than sit and stew about it, and make myself worse, i decided to post, and I am glad I did, because I would never have considered points like what Sparrow brought up, with the bulk supply thing at pharmacys and it not being a problem when breaking capsules.

 

I did empty a capsule in a jar of water and it formed a mass in the middle, but maybe, when the time comes, I can use less water.

I seemed to taper down to 100mg of my other med ok, and that is only partially soluble.

 

Starlite

 

I will save the traz till last, but I hope it wont take me years to get off the remainder of my valium and seroquel.

I have already been tapering nearly four years, and am near saturation point with it all tbh.

 

Savemooses

 

Yes, the anxiety is hard to control, regardless of all the meds I am on. Congrats for beating lexapro.

I just feel so trapped, on all this medication, with no way out, and what with my benzo taper taking forever, and me running out of steam, it all gets a bit much at times. I also have some big non med worries which are delaying my taper, by magnifiying the withdrawal symptoms.

 

Once again everyone, thanks for your helpful posts, they are all important to me.

[CrazyMom]

Just wanted to drop a note to say that I hope you start to feel better soon. It's all very hard and it's very brave to fight through hard things!

 

[primrose]

Hi

 

I've put this in the tapering section, because although my current meds are not suitable for me, and i am slowly weaning off them, I do think that I need antidepressants because of my pre-existing mental health condition.

 

I am not saying that I need them for life, but I do need to be on some form of AD, just not trazodone or seroquel, as I don't like the side effects of them.

 

Trazodone makes my eyes blurry and I am so bad at reading small writing that I need magnifying specs. The optician confirmed my eyesight was normal, so I know it's the traz cos it started when i went on that.

The seroquel gives me water retention.

 

As for the valium I was on, I am glad to be off that and all withdrawal symptoms left me before I got down to 1.5mg valium.

The seroquel taper is going well, the swelling in my feet and ankles has really improved.

 

I am asking for a water soluble antidepressant, because I know I will have to taper off it some time in the future, but for now, i want a tablet that will help with my pre existing depression that I can dissolve in water for easy tapering.

 

Many thanks

[Rhiannon]

I don't know of any water soluble antidepressants. I believe there are quite a few that can be obtained in a liquid formulation. We don't recommend specific drugs to people here, just try to help them in coming off the ones they're on.

 

Personally I would try everything else before going on an AD. They're not actually all that effective and they're fraught with dangers, especially for someone like you who already has a history with psych drugs. They can be just as addictive as benzos and cause all kinds of problems over the long term.

 

There are all kinds of safer things to try first. Exercise is consistently more effective than ADs in studies. Read about probiotics and depression, gut/brain axis etc and try dietary changes. Exposure to light is also simple, safe and effective. 

 

Before taking any psych drug I would read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. It's a serious decision and not to be made lightly.