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Its beginning to come out...


John
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On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor.

 

June 2010 - Cold turkey

September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night.  I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor.  (I was never in my life even remotely like this)

December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later

January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month

2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves

January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly.  I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper.  Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months

2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane

2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so

December 2020 - Now at ~40mgs Effexor XR, 2.5mgs Crestor (Cutting 5mg pill in half due to sudden palpitations or PVCs)

 
 
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Thanks for posting John...its been a long beginning...i hope it moves to the next chapter real soon...

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Thanks for sharing!

Don't known how long it will take for final justice to all of us victims.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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I followed the link and ended up reading an article about the Tobin v. GSK case, dreadful story. I ended up at Ann Blake Tracy's site and noticed that in nearly every article of hers she recommended people purchase her CD for getting off antidepressants safely. Took quite a bit more searching to find what she recommends is a safe rate of withdrawal, finally found it here (along with her recommendations for healing the damage wrought by being on these serotinergic drugs):

 

Quote: "Patients must withdraw very very slowly over a period of many months depending how long you have been on the medication.Generally patients find that if they've been on the drug for a year, they require five to six months to slowly wean themselves off the medication. So between one-third to one-half the total amount of time you have been on any of these drugs or combinations seems to be a safe withdrawal time. This allows your body to adjust to lower levels of the chemical. You can't stop cold turkey! This is the key to avoid ending up in a psych ward. The biggest mistake patients and doctors make is to withdraw from these drugs too quickly."

 

I had always wondered what the ballpark recommendation might be overall, don't know why but I could not figure it out from a 10% reduction of the previous dose that we generally recommend. The only reason I mention it is that I find it miraculous that the human body appears to repair itself so quickly after its adapation to these awful chemicals many of us found ourselves on. So for me, I was on them 8 years this last time and I went cold turkey (without meaning to) and here it is 4 years later and although I am for the most part well recovered, I still have some deficits. But this is after a 4 year period of absolutely NO drugs: no antihistamines, not a bit of a benzo "just to help with withdrawal and I promise I won't get addicted" (you will), nothing for aches and pains and headaches (after 2 years I think I may have taken an ibuprofen maybe 3 times and quit because they were ineffective) and had dental numbing for a filling once last year. If it does not go away with sleep or heat or cold or rest or food then I just grit my teeth and live through it till it goes away. It can be done. (But I have had no major medical interventions needing more than that, that's a different thing altogether).

 

So many people come here in severe distress and feel (as I did at one time) that we will always feel awful being off the drugs, that we will never recover, it seems to be a peculiar feature of how the drugs affect our thinking. When you are in it, it feels immutable, no amount of reassurance will change your mind. But it ever so gradually goes away till you reach a point where you are more recovered than not. No one can tell you when this will happen but I think that the one third to one half time period Tracy recommends for weaning might give someone something to hang on to when the going gets rough.

 

But believe me, you don't want to do it cold turkey like I did, it is so far beyond awful living through it I would not recommend anyone take the chance going there. The worse is the feeling of being utterly trapped in a body that is physically, mentally and emotionally so messed up you have no frame of reference for handling it. No medical intervention is available and if tried will likely make it so much worse. The only solution is to do all you can to keep yourself alive till the symptoms start to abate and for me this took nearly a year after protracted wd hit. A very long horrifying year, the main component of which was a form of suicidal ideation filled depression the likes of which I could not ever conceive. Add to that intractable insomnia (during which I had only snatches of nightmaric unconsciousness lasting mere minutes, can't even call it 'sleep') that lasted about 4 months and it's a recipe for misery. This is the part you don't want to take the chance of triggering by trying to get off the drugs too quickly.

 

The other point I want to make is that reading the article about Don Schell (the central figure in the GSK suit) was learning about the peculiar REM sleep disorder brought on by AD use that she feels is the root cause in the violent destruction of families and in many of the school shootings. I don't ever remember seeing this but now that I have, it makes complete sense why I had the horrific night (and day) mares during protracted wd. They were unlike anything I had ever read in any Stephen King novel nor watched in any "Criminal Minds" episode. They were unlike any thoughts I ever remember. That people could do such awful things because their REM sleep is messed up makes sense because the line between waking and dreaming is blurred.

 

Even after all this time I am learning more about what happened to me and why as a result of these drugs. I just hope that anyone reading this can take heart from the fact that withdrawal is truly time limited and does have an end. That the body can rebuild itself in such a short time is truly a miracle. I still remember how awful it was a short 2 years ago and if I ever forget I can go back and read my thread. My PAWS starts at about page 29 if I remember rightly. I had 29 pages of nonsense filled postings leading up to the crisis and the only thing I can say is that I am glad I was a member here when it happened because I eventually knew what to do to survive.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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" peculiar REM sleep disorder brought on by AD use that she feels is the root cause in the violent destruction of families and in many of the school shootings. I don't ever remember seeing this but now that I have, it makes complete sense why I had the horrific night (and day) mares during protracted wd. They were unlike anything I had ever read in any Stephen King novel nor watched in any "Criminal Minds" episode"

 

Was she suggesting that these people were in a dream state when they did the shootings and other acts of violence or that some other REM issue cause this?  There was one article about a man who killed his wife while on drugs and got off he said he was in a dream it was not real .. they were in bed together when it started.  He got no time none nada.. some lawyer proved somehow it was the drug at fault not the man. 

 

I had those times too and I don't ever want them again to this day I cannot watch any show with violence I am damaged by the things my mind terrorized me with while drugged.  Treated like a moron by my sons gf who loves gore the more she can see the better she likes it... we don't mix well to say the least. 

 

I wonder did they call it sleep state misperception?  I use to think of it as spellbinding that one of those docs talks of but I have heard differing titles and I think they are not all talking about the exact same thing... i Have had a variety of things due to my long history of drug use, sad to say. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, that is exactly what she says and I think she is right. The school shooters never have a plan for what they are going to do next, unless it's suicide.

 

They might have planned for the attack, but everyone knows how easy it is to start a project when all you have to do is buy stuff. They don't have exit strategies that real criminals with an intent to commit a crime for some purpose do.

 

They go to their school because the people they want to harm are there, but it could be that when you're asleep you are drawn places where you feel safe. How adventurous can you be when you're asleep? Kids go to a familiar place were they feel safe, which they could get to with their eyes closed. The top choices for adults are the workplace, if employed or recently fired, or a government office they depend on that hasn't met their needs. Also shopping malls, churches, movie theaters--they tend to go to places that are separated from the world at large. They don't typically go downtown and stand on a busy corner.

 

And REM sleep behavior disorder was identified in the 1980s. Sound about right?
http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/2015/11/update-rem-sleep-behavior-disorder-management-strong-link-parkinsonism/

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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http://www.sleeprevi...k-parkinsonism/

 

" RBD can be associated with a broad range of neurologic disorders, particularly neurodegenerative disorders and narcolepsy-cataplexy, and it can be triggered by antidepressant and other medications."

 

 

 

".32 RBD commonly heralds future neurodegeneration, which adds a layer of complexity and need for increased vigilance in the long-term management of RBD patients."

 

Sounds like antidepressants and "other"  medications can set a person up to have a future neurodegeneration illness. I don't know if it is during REM sleep or not but I sure have jerking and twitching. 

 

" a selective and very strong association of RBD with the alpha-synuclein neurodegenerative disorders (PD, MSA, DLB) is now recognized. RBD can precede, emerge concurrently with, or develop after the emergence of an alpha-synuclein disorder.28 The synucleinopathies comprise a set of neurodegenerative disorders that share a common pathologic lesion composed of aggregates of insoluble alpha-synuclein protein in selectively vulnerable populations of neurons and glial cells. These pathologic aggregates appear to be closely linked to the onset and progression of clinical symptoms and the degeneration of affected brain regions in neurodegenerative disorders.28,29The strong presence of RBD in the alpha-synuclein disorders is indicated by these published findings: 30-50% in PD, 50-80% in DLB, and 80-95% in MSA.29,30 The presence of RBD in PD is associated with widespread increased PD morbidity, including increased level of PD motor impairment, increased level of cognitive impairment, increased visual hallucinations, increased autonomic dysfunction, and greater impairment in quality of life status. A recent study found that of 80 PD patients who were newly diagnosed with RBD and who were dementia-free at baseline, 34% (27/80) developed dementia (PDD) at 4.4-year follow-up.31 RBD with PD at baseline in this study dramatically increased the dementia risk, with an odds ratio of 49.7 (p = 0.001)."

 

Not something to look forward to. :( but at least they are saying antidepressants are to blame for some of it finally. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Multiple System Atrophy Fact Sheet 

 

What is multiple system atrophy?

 

Multiple system atrophy (MSA) is a progressive neurodegenerative disorder characterized by a combination of symptoms that affect both the autonomic nervous system (the part of the nervous system that controls involuntary action such as blood pressure or digestion) and movement. The symptoms reflect the progressive loss of function and death of different types of nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord.

The fainting and lightheadedness from orthostatic hypotension may be treated with simple interventions such as wearing compression stockings, adding extra salt and/or water to the diet, and avoiding heavy meals.
 
pp members remember Lori's son Ryan who needed compression stocking and salt..interesting 
 
 The drugs fludrocortisone and midodrine sometimes are prescribed. In 2014, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the medication droxidopa for the treatment of orthostatic hypotension seen in MSA. Dihydroxyphenylserine helps to replace chemical signals called neurotransmitters which are decreased in the autonomic nervous system in MSA. Some medications used to treat orthostatic hypotension can be associated with high blood pressure when lying down, so affected individuals may be advised to sleep with the head of the bed tilted up.

Bladder control problems are treated according to the nature of the problem. Anticholinergic drugs, such as oxybutynin or tolteridine, may help reduce the sudden urge to urinate.

Fixed abnormal muscle postures (dystonia) may be controlled with injections of botulinum toxin.

Sleep problems such as REM sleep behavior disorder can be treated with medicines including clonazepam, melatonin, or some antidepressants.

Some individuals with MSA may have significant difficulties with swallowing and may need a feeding tube or nutritional support. Speech therapy may be helpful in identifying strategies to address swallowing difficulties.

Physical therapy helps maintain mobility, reduce contractures (chronic shortening of muscles or tendons around joints, which prevents the joints from moving freely), and decrease muscle spasms and abnormal posture.

Individuals may eventually need assistive devices such as walkers and wheelchairs. Occupational therapists help with home safety and learning new ways to address activities of daily living such as dressing and eating.

 

i HAD TO LOOK 

wish I didn't

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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