spectio Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hello, everybody. I've been browsing through the history for a couple of weeks, now and thought Id' introduce myself. I'm thirty one days off Remeron. I started withdrawing from 135 mg to 45 two years ago. Last August(2010) I made the final descent from 45 mg to where I am today. So, this has not been a rapid drop. I'm really in a quandry about this being stuck feeling. The last few weeks, I am feeling more unmotivated and get up in the morning feeling dread. I'm finding it hard to do anything. I am completely lacking in self confidence and am very fearful of anybody asking me to do anything. I'm sleeping relatively well, don't feel tired during the day most days, and my appetite is ok. I try to exercise most days and watch my diet carefully. What do you think. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 6, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hello, spectio. Welcome to our community.  It sounds like maybe this feeling became more intense as you reduced the Remeron? Was it worse when you made decreases in dosage?  How long did you hold at decreases before you made the next decrease?  Which blood pressure meds are you taking? These can have side effects as well. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hi, Alto and everybody else: You know, thinking back, I had some pretty intense depression three or four days after reducing the remeron, but usually , it became more tolerable. It was still there, but it would come and go. Some days were worse, some better. I'm in a phase now where it seems everyday is pretty much the same, although it does wax and wane. The most bothersome issue is this "I can"t do anything" feeling. I forgot to mention, I started AD in January of 2000. At the beginning, it was a real problem getting anything to work. I tried other meds as augmentation strategies but as time went on, the remeron was just barely working. In 2004, I started taking flax for cholesterol reduction, started feeling horrible, like I was taking too much of something. I was able to back down on the remeron and felt pretty good for a couple of weeks. After some research, I decided to try fish oil instead of the flax, and that's how I was able to function on an antidepressant for a number of years. Now the fish oil just makes me more nervous. Too bad. I'm taking lisinopril. I was taking twice as much as I take now a few months back. I went from 40 mg to 20 mg. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 6, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 6, 2011 spectio, I suggest you look very closely at side effects of lisinopril, for example: http://blood-pressure.emedtv.com/lisinopril/depression-and-lisinopril.html  or http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8390918  Clin Ther. 1993 Mar-Apr;15(2):407-22. Lisinopril in the treatment of hypertension: a Canadian postmarketing surveillance study. Huckell VF, Bélanger LG, Kazimirski M, Subramanian T, Cox AJ.  Source  University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.  Abstract  A postmarketing surveillance study in 2273 Canadian office practices provided the largest body of clinical experience to date with the angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitor lisinopril in the treatment of mild to moderate essential hypertension. The principal emphasis in this uncontrolled study was safety, assessed in 10,289 patients. Patients with a diastolic blood pressure > 90 mmHg were considered for the study. Both previously untreated patients and those who were experiencing adverse effects from their current antihypertensive regimen were included. Lisinopril was begun at a dose of 10 mg/day. Subsequent dose adjustments, to a maximum of 40 mg/day, were made to achieve optimal blood pressure control (diastolic blood pressure < or = 90 mmHg or > or = 10 mmHg below baseline for > or = 4 weeks at the same dose). Therapy was continued for a minimum of 4 weeks to a maximum of 12 weeks, with patients examined every 2 weeks. The frequencies of adverse effects and laboratory abnormalities were analyzed in all treated patients. All 10,289 patients enrolled were considered in the analysis of safety. One or more adverse effects were reported for 1593 (15.5%) patients, and 802 (7.8%) withdrew from the study because of adverse effects. The most frequent adverse effects were cough (4.0%), dizziness (2.3%), headache (2.1%), asthenia (1.7%), and nausea (1.0%). The physicians' global assessment rated overall tolerability as very good or good for 77.1% of the patients. Antihypertensive effect was evaluated in 5886 patients who met the criteria for efficacy analysis. The criterion response was attained in 5141 (87.3%) patients, with 68.6% responding to 10 mg/day of lisinopril, 26.3% to 20 mg/day, and 3.2% to 40 mg/day (the other 1.9% responded at nonstandard doses). Lisinopril was safe and well-tolerated. Except for cough, class effects of ACE inhibitors were rarely encountered. The results of the efficacy analysis confirm the established efficacy of lisinopril in patients with mild to moderate essential hypertension.   spectio, it seems to me what you're feeling, and may have been feeling since you started lisinopril, is a side effect of that medication. It may have been compounded by antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, see Disconnect between interest and action/motivation  Perhaps you can delve further into the research base and see how closely your symptoms match those reported for asthenia. You may need to change or reduce your blood pressure medication. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thanks, Alto for your research and advise. When I was taking 40 mg Lisinipril, I noticed that there were some people who had depression while on it. Thats when I began reducing the dosage and where I am today. I actually tried getting off the med entirely but my b. p. started climbing and I "settled" on 20mg. I was still on remeron at that time, too, so wondered if my bp increase may have been due to still being on that. Anyway, I may try reducing the lisinopril down to 10 mg for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. I take my bp everyday so I am cautious. Again, thanks for your input. It's so wonderfull talking to you and the forum and tapping into your experiences and knowledge. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 7, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thanks, spectio, but I give Dr. Google the credit. I just know which keywords to look for.  For example:  http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/lisinopril-with-remeron-1640-1015-1476-0.html  Interactions between your selected drugs [moderate interaction] lisinopril ↔ mirtazapine  Applies to:lisinopril and Remeron (mirtazapine)  MONITOR: Many psychotherapeutic and CNS-active agents (e.g., anxiolytics, sedatives, hypnotics, antidepressants, antipsychotics, opioids, alcohol, muscle relaxants) exhibit hypotensive effects, especially during initiation of therapy and dose escalation. Coadministration with antihypertensive agents, in particular vasodilators and alpha-blockers, may result in additive effects on blood pressure and orthostasis.  MANAGEMENT: Caution is advised during coadministration of these agents. Close monitoring for development of hypotension is recommended. Patients should be advised to avoid rising abruptly from a sitting or recumbent position and to notify their physician if they experience dizziness, lightheadedness, syncope, orthostasis, or tachycardia.   This may have exacerbated your sense of weakness. Your doctor should have been on top of this. You might consider finding another doctor, one who pays closer attention to side effects and drug interactions.  Please let us know how you're doing! This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Good morning, friends: I have a few questions for everybody. For those of us post menopausal, does anyone have experience taking estrogen, progesterone replacement therapy to relieve wd sympoms? Also, what dosage should I start melatonin at for sleep? Has anyone done research on hyperadrenalcortism and any similarity to the symptoms a lot of us feel with wd anxiety, hard to think, dizzyness, etc. Do any of the conventional treatments for high cortisol (Cushings syndrome) have any application to the high cortisol levels brought on by wd? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 18, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 18, 2011 Good morning, friends: I have a few questions for everybody. For those of us post menopausal, does anyone have experience taking estrogen, progesterone replacement therapy to relieve wd sympoms? Also, what dosage should I start melatonin at for sleep? Has anyone done research on hyperadrenalcortism and any similarity to the symptoms a lot of us feel with wd anxiety, hard to think, dizzyness, etc. Do any of the conventional treatments for high cortisol (Cushings syndrome) have any application to the high cortisol levels brought on by wd?  Hello to you, spectio. I added these very good questions to your existing Intro topic.  I have found an estrogen mini-patch, Menostar, to add a degree of calming to my system. It's such a small dose, it doesn't need progesterone opposition. Still, my doctor is conservative and I've been getting ultrasound to monitor any changes to uterine lining. It's been around 2 years and no changes, so apparently the manufacturer's assurances of safety are true enough.  Start melatonin at .5mg at nightfall. Try this for a few nights. Titrate up by .5mg if needed.  Excellent observation about the relationship to Cushing's. I've done a lot of reading in this and some consultation with an expert endocrinologist. Yes, I do think there is a parallel but the cortisol levels in Cushing's are much, much higher. As near as I can tell, treatment for Cushing's centers on removal of the glandular tumor that is causing it.  What treatments were you thinking of? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thanks, Alto for your reply. I really didn't have any particular therapy in mind in reference to Cushings. Just was wondering if any conventional meds could help. Our cortisol levels are quite a bit lower than true Cushings? I have started taking phosphatidyl serine (a preparation of just that) about a week ago, and notice that my nervousness is quite a bit better. Has anybody tried this type of pss? I am also noticing I am packing a low grade headache all day. Could that be cortisol levels falling and an attempt by the brain to readapt. I would think that our brains are still inflammed by constantly being bathed in cortisol so would not be surprised to feel some "rebound" effect. I was taking one capsule three times a day before meals. This morning I thought I would try two capsules together before breakfast.I still have a headache but it's no worse than yesterday. Does anybody else feel this nervousness all day. A few months back I would have the worst jitters in the morning and afternoon and in the evening would be pretty good. Still some nerves but not like the a. m. Now it has morphed into an all day, every day thing and it's starting to really affect sleep. One more question. What do you think about taking the melatonin at bed time while I'm using the pss? I did this night before last and in the late afternoon had some pretty good nausea. Been reading Nadia's journey and am amazed at her resilience and toughness. She's amazing! Thanks, all. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 18, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 18, 2011 PSS can be helpful but our systems in withdrawal tend to be hypersensitive -- more is not better, and can set off a paradoxical reaction.  So one must try very low doses to begin with and titrate up carefully, keeping track of symptoms.  A little magnesium citrate may help your headaches and anxiety. See Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker  I've never heard of melatonin causing nausea many hours later. Are you sure it was't the pss? I believe nausea is a side effect. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Hi, everyone: Well, the battle goes on and on. I tried phosphotidyl serine for the nervousness and, as with everything else, became more anxious, so no more. Next I tried Emergencee, a powder you add to water which is just vitamin C and some vitamins. The headaches became worse and the dizzyness became worse. So, no more. It's been four days since I took any supplement. The anxiety is better but I'm packing a headache, along with dizzyness and kind of a sickish feeling all day long. It's starts in the morning, gets worse mid day and slowly gets better toward evening. It doesn't go entirely away though. It's 9:30 and I'm still feeling a muted version of everything. It's been 52 days without Remeron. I can say I have had very little depression in the last week to ten days. One more thing, does anything over the counter work on these headaches. I tried asprin and ibuprofen and they don't budge the headaches. Anyway, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 29, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 29, 2011 Hello again, spectio, I added your new post to your Intro topic. Please put all your updates in this topic.  I believe Emergen-C has a lot of other vitamins in it. I can't take it anymore, my nervous system is too sensitive.  Have you tried magnesium citrate for the headaches? It might help. See this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/page__p__11734__hl__magnesium__fromsearch__1#entry11734  An extended-release vitamin C tablet might help, and lots of fresh citrus. Vitamin C opposes cortisol, the anxiety hormone.  Are you taking fish oil?  How much pss were you taking? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Hi everyone and thanks Alto for your reply. I am really amazed at how sensitive our nervous systems are after coming off AD's. I have even noticed an increase in nervousness, dizzyness, headaches after a 45 minute walk, which wasn't particularly stressful. Also, I used to juice vegetables into a 12 ounce glass and the next day I was a lot more nervous. I used to take fish oil years ago because I, among many, struggled to get these poisons to work and found when I took fo, I could reduce the amount of AD. Well, as I got sicker and sicker from being on these drugs, I found I couldn't take fo any more. I made me more nervous. The PSS was in 100 mg capsules. I started taking 3 caps a day , went to 2 per day then one per day. Then I stopped. I was more nervous. Has anyone noticed the psychiatric industry is now pushing a theory of inflammation as a cause of depression? I talked to my alternative medical/homeopathic doctor (also an osteopath) today. He said he was at an alternative medicine conference this weekend and listened to a psychiatrist spouting the industry's new theory of inflammation as a cause of depression. The "funny" thing about the speaker, turns out it was my psychiatrist. Six or seven years ago when I was getting relief from depression from fish oil, I approached the subject with him, telling him of my experience with fo providing relief from depression. His one sentence was "Well, I suppose it could help" and moved on to filling my hands with more poison. I sense a change in the force. I suppose the pharmacologists are getting really excited to come up with a new synthetic antiinflammatory that will eliminate all our depression. And the dollars will continue rolling in for all these slime balls. Any way, any info out there, guys or what are your thoughts? Oh, Alto, am using magnesium citrate so will report back on that and just plain old vitamin C from nature. Thanks, all. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Spectio, Yes, I've been reading quite a bit about the depression-inflammation connection. It's quite convenient since antidepressants are thought to have antiinflammatory effects. There's more to the antidepressant -immune picture, however. I can't recall it at the moment due to the intense pounding in my skull. Â I feel much sympathy for lab rats. Â Sprague-Dawley Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
compsports Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Hi Spectio, Â Welcome. Â Because psychiatrists know the chemical imbalance theory is being rejected, it seems they are throwing up trial balloons, like inflammation, to see what will stick. The other one is neurogenesis. Â Next year, it will be something else. Â By the way, I was on Remeron for several years and had horrific rebound insomnia in trying to get off of it. It also contributed to my hearing loss. It left "wonderful" parting gifts. Â Again welcome. Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment
spectio Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Hi, compsports and barbarannamated: More on the inflammation theory. . I'm curious to know if this new postulate of theirs is an attempt to hold back the tide of furious chronic AD users who are finding they are getting sicker and sicker the longer they are on these poisons. Where, pray tell did the inflammation start, at the beginning of depression or while on the drugs. I would venture to say most of the inflammation comes as a result of years of synthetic poisons bathing our brains and totally unbalancing the neurotransmitter balance in the brain. Yes, it is inflammation but magnified hundreds or times by the synthetic poisons. It just makes me mad enough to keep putting one foot in front of the other and get down the road from this nightmare. So, everyone, keep fighting the good fight. Hopefully, the industry will be exposed in all its blackness, and it will happen real soon. Yeah , comsports, remeron is a "trip", isn't it? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 1, 2011 Administrator Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yes, I think there will be quite a bit of backlash as people find they've been kept on these drug unnecessarily.  I don't put much stock in the inflammation theory. I believe cs has it right, they're just throwing whatever at the wall to see what sticks. Also still trying to get validity for "medical model" -- treating a real physical condition. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Spectio, I don't know enough to answer intelligently, just wanted to alert you that you were spot on in your speculation. There is quite a bit of evidence that antidepressants effect the immune system and are being studied for use in immunology (cytokines, Substance P, T helper cells, etc.). Waaaay above my head! I HOPE this information will get out to treaters if only for the purpose of raising awareness that ADs are not benign chemicals that stay in the head-- they DO cross the brain/body barrier and cause a cascade of changes and adaptations throughout the body. OTOH, it is well known that thyroid hormones effect mood, Estrogen has neuromodulatory effects (on dopamine, just as one example) and is used in dementia. Quinolone antibiotics (Cipro, Levaquin, -floxins) have documented CNS effects, and aripiprazole/Ability is a quinolone-derivative used as antipsychotic/AD and listed on one source as an analgesic. ?? I wont claim to understand chemical structures and how they work, but what strikes me is that many drugs are FDA indicated for a use, but chemical structure/class is very different. Phenergan and Compazine are used widely for nausea--they are typical antipsychotics like Thorazine. No doubt the doses and length of treatment are different. I would bet that most MDs would be very surprised. I could be wrong, of course. I worked with MDs for many years and their knowledge of pharmacology is minimal. Drugs are not their specialty even though they are their primary treatment modality. One speaker at ISEPP implored physicians to research studies, dissect them, analyze the design, biases, etc. Realistically, Docs dont have time to do that and not sure they kno how.Even some pharmacists are lacking basic knowledge, IMHO. Sorry....I really got off on a tangential rant! It all boils down to a severe and dangerous disconnect between psychiatry, medicine, and science/pharmacology. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 One last point: I understand that we all feel vulnerable and disempowered. However, I believe that the knowledge here on this site FAR exceeds the physicians' or pharmacists' knowledge. I assure you that they are not familiar with the many studies that Alto et al have collected and analyzed. If we present this info in an informative way with solid scientific resources, we are more likely to be taken seriously. It's tough to keep the emotions out when we're talking about ourselves. I wish we could team up and act as each others' advocates at doc appointments. I can assert myself and get docs talking when it's for someone else, but when it's my appointment, I can't seem to put a logical sentence together unless I know the doc well. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Crocus Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 One last point: I understand that we all feel vulnerable and disempowered.... If we present this info in an informative way with solid scientific resources, we are more likely to be taken seriously. It's tough to keep the emotions out when we're talking about ourselves. I wish we could team up and act as each others' advocates at doc appointments. Â Barbara - I like the way you put this. It is my hope that as soon as we get some support groups started here locally (I am in Denver), we may be able to help each other in this way as well. Â Spectio - I am so glad that you are willing to do the work necessary to help get through this situation. It is hard to get over the "victim" mentality for many of us and we have truly been and are being victimized by a system built on a total lack of information. Â You have much to be proud of by looking for answers and, for my money the "experts" are here on this site and anywhere that groups of us get together to discuss our actual real life experience of what works and how we can get free of the psych meds and get our lives back. Â I personally have to assess symptoms as to whether I need to reduce the med again or if it is withdrawal - they are so similar that it is difficult at times to know which direction will bring relief. We are getting there though, each day closer to being through this. Â I hope you will let us know how you are doing now. Crocus xxxx Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Crocus, I talked briefly w Mark Foster over the weekend and heard him speak. What an inspiring guy! Are you working with him? Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
spectio Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hi, eVeryone, I,ve felt pretty good the last couple of weeks so haven't added anything about my own struggle. But, that has changed in the last week. Im going through a phase again where I wake up in the morning with this horrible sense of dread ,which progresses to depression and sometimes nausea. It's very intense in the morning, gets better in the afternoon and by evening is a lot better. When I first messaged the forum it was with this same issue. It has been about 73 days since totally discontinuing remeron and nateurally I worry that I'm on the precipice of depression again. I'm finding too that I'm getting so sick of this routine I'm in, hoping to control my stress level. But, when I try to do something different, it causes me intense apprehension. I guess mainly I need someone to tell me I'm not alone in this. How does anyone handle this "irrational fear syndrome" that comes and grabs you and won't let you go! Thanks guys, really need some reassurance. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 17, 2011 Administrator Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) This seems to be pretty common. It's another thing that resolves in time.  See early-morning-waking-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike  Blackout shades, curtains, and sleep masks can help -- it's triggered by the change in light and early morning cortisol spike.  Edited November 10, 2022 by ChessieCat updated link This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hi, eVeryone, I,ve felt pretty good the last couple of weeks so haven't added anything about my own struggle. But, that has changed in the last week. Im going through a phase again where I wake up in the morning with this horrible sense of dread ,which progresses to depression and sometimes nausea. It's very intense in the morning, gets better in the afternoon and by evening is a lot better. When I first messaged the forum it was with this same issue. It has been about 73 days since totally discontinuing remeron and nateurally I worry that I'm on the precipice of depression again. I'm finding too that I'm getting so sick of this routine I'm in, hoping to control my stress level. But, when I try to do something different, it causes me intense apprehension. I guess mainly I need someone to tell me I'm not alone in this. How does anyone handle this "irrational fear syndrome" that comes and grabs you and won't let you go! Thanks guys, really need some reassurance. Â I've had trouble the last few weeks, too, and wonder if there may be a connection to the time change. I went to see Flashdance movie the other nite. Theater was empty and sound was so loud, I couldn't lean back far enough. The screen seemed so big, too. I liked the movie, not anything overwhelming w/violence, etc. I felt a bit shaky the following day and the TV and every sound felt like it was cutting through me. This morning the 4am cotisol alarm hit me for the first time in months, since I darkened the room. Racing heart, the whole bit.. Could I be that sensitive to a movie?? Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
spectio Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Greetings fellow travelers, I need some guidance. I've spent a couple of hardly tolerable weeks and know it.'s just more of the same but need something to improve the quality of my days . I take no supplements and only one other drug, my blood pressure meds. I am feeling more depression, more dizziness and really am noticing a slump in my memory, even more than before. I would like to get back on fish oil. I took it on and off while I was on the ad's, and know it's the only reason I was able to function the past years while I was on the ad's. I stopped taking the fo's while i was withdrawing because they were causing some paradoxical reactions in the form of "more" nervousness. Yesterday, because I had depression pretty much all day, I took one of my mega fo's last night with dinner. This morning I started with some pretty intense depression but by 9:00 it was gone but I did have more anxiety than usual. The anxiety lasted for a couple of hours and then morphed back into the usual day to day uneasiness and nervousness. I have had very little depression the rest of today, my dizziness seems better and I havn't had any nausea, which I've also had off and on the last couple of weeks. My question is, fish oil you buy is usually made up of two different types of omega 3 fatty acids, the EPA and the Dha factions. Should I concentrate on using either strictly Dha or strictly EPA instead of the combined fish oil capsules or should I just get a less potent fish oil capsule. The concentrations of the EPA is600mg and the Dha is 240mg. The total omega concentration is 1100 mg. Another question about vitamin b12. My understanding is that it is poorly absorbed in the tablet form but much better absorbed in the sublingual preparation. Are there any discussions on the forum concerning the use of vitamin b12 preparations and/ or are there blood tests for directly detecting vitamin b 12 levels? Thanks for the input, everyone . I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 6, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 6, 2011 Should I concentrate on using either strictly Dha or strictly EPA instead of the combined fish oil capsules or should I just get a less potent fish oil capsule. The concentrations of the EPA is600mg and the Dha is 240mg. The total omega concentration is 1100 mg. Another question about vitamin b12. My understanding is that it is poorly absorbed in the tablet form but much better absorbed in the sublingual preparation. Are there any discussions on the forum concerning the use of vitamin b12 preparations and/ or are there blood tests for directly detecting vitamin b 12 levels? Thanks for the input, everyone . Hi, spectio. That is an unusually strong fish oil capsule. (What kind is it?)  The body converts EPA into DHA. Theoretically, DHA would get into your brain faster.  If you're sensitive to fish oil, I don't believe you'd want to take pure DHA capsules. I don't believe you can get pure fish oil EPA.  You can get DHA in a liquid form if you want to experiment with taking only a little bit of it. Otherwise, you might experiment with a weaker fish oil supplement. There are a lot of those out there. (A children's supplement?)  We have a topic on B12, http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1392-vitamin-b12-essential-for-mood-nervous-system/page__p__12853__hl__cyanocobalamin__fromsearch__1#entry12853  Yes, sublinguals are better absorbed. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Hi, alto, thanks again for your prompt response concerning fish oil, etc. You asked what kind of fish oil that was. It's from vitamin shoppe and they call it Mega fish oil (EPA-dha). Have a peaceful day! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Greetings, fellow travelers: well, tried resuming fish oil supplements but find that it still makes me very anxious. A few days after my first dose, my memory mproved , the anxiety was better, had less depression, etc. By the fourth dose, I was more dizzy, more headachy, and had more anxiety. I donT think my sleep was as good either. It's been four days since the last(lower dose) fish oil and I am still packing a pretty substantial headache and some dizzyness. Anyway, I think I need to look to another avenue for headache relief. Have any of you had acupuncture specifically for headache relief ? Shanti, this ones for you. What homeopathic preparations would you suggest for headaches? Okay, my friends, hope tomorrow will be better than today. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Acupuncture very helpful for my headaches originating in neck and jaw Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 14, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 14, 2011 I've found acupuncture to be very helpful for pain. Acupuncturists vary in quality, look for someone you can communicate with and make sure they don't try to give you any stimulating treatments. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hi, everyone: I had a session with my acupuncture dr. on Friday. I hadn't talked to him for over a year so we had a little discussion about my ad wtihdrawal and the symptoms I was still battling. I told him it had been almost 3 and a half months since my last dose. He was amazed I was still having symptoms. I dismissed that comment because this really isn't his area of expertise but I did emphasize that whatever treatment he gave me that it not be stimulating. Anyway I was still having pretty substantial headaches ( aggravated by the fish oil supplements?) and actually went to see him for that reason. The day of the appt. my headaches were better but was having all the rest of the issues, like nausea, dizzyness, terrible memory, nervousness, so decided on a treatment anyway. Saturday I really felt bad. All the same symptoms but just intensified. Sunday was better but with more headaches. I could think better. Today I'm having a rough time with depression. Everything just feels insurmountable. I really don't think the acupuncture caused any of this because I regularly have bad days. I guess I need your feedback too about doing more testing in regards to the cortisol surges. This last couple of weeks it seems like the early morning cortisol surge is getting more pronounced and really sets me up for an extra intense morning, where any challenge is hugely magnified. Almost to the point of paralysis, where I'm intensely afraid. In some form, I feel this all day and now somewhat into the evening. The acupuncture dr. talked about saliva cortisol testing and depending on the results, titrating sublingual drops of dhea, pregnenelone etc. one at a time to avoid stimulation. The lab is biohealth diagnostics in California. Of course, I'm not taking anything until I do some research and get some feedback from you guys. Thanks, folks! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 20, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 20, 2011 spectio, if your symptoms started with withdrawal, it is unlikely cortisol testing is going to yield any kind of results that a doctor can use, unless you suspect you had a pituitary or adrenal tumor before withdrawal (very unlikely).  I had the full endocrinological investigation done, and it was a waste of time, discomfort, and money.  The salivary cortisol tests http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cortisol/tab/test are not going to be any more helpful.  If you are older than 40, minute amounts of DHEA, estrogen, progesterone, or pregnenelone might ease your symptoms a little. I've tried tiny doses of DHEA, estrogen, and progesterone at various times and found they were soothing. (I am menopausal and I currently use a .14mcg Menostar estrogen patch for this purpose.)  Since one can do these experiments oneself, I personally would not pay a doctor to advise me. I'm sure he doesn't have any idea of what he's dealing with. You might give his acupuncture another try, but if that's not effective, I would find another acupuncturist.  Have you tried cutting down morning light with blackout shades or curtains and a sleep mask? Reducing that stimulation can reduce the morning cortisol spike, and it's a lot safer than taking hormones. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Administrator Karma Posted December 20, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 20, 2011 I recommend using Canary Club to order your 4X day saliva cortisol test via ZRT - http://www.canaryclub.org/specialized-panel-hormone-tests-pm/diurnal-cortisol-4x-zrt-stress-hormone-test-kit-c1-c2-c3-c4.html Not all saliva testing is the same and this particular lab has more consistent results than other labs. Â Then post the results to the http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/messages group. The moderators on the Adrenal group have been a godsend to me and their advice has eliminated my fatigue, helped with my energy and improved my mood. They are the ones who helped me realize that I need to get off of the ADs and benzos if I'm ever going to allow my adrenals to fully heal. Â The advice I've been given is that DHEA and pregnenalone are unpredictable - they can turn into any of the sex hormones and may cause imbalances. There are other adaptogens that might help your adrenals, but depending on your diurnal pattern you may need something more aggressive. Check out eAware.org for more information on the adrenals. Â You have made it over a huge milestone - you are off of the ADs Now you just need a little support to get your hormones rebalanced and you'll be on your way to feeling well again. Â Love and light, Karma 2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625Â mg Xanax 200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg; 1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg;Â 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20Â 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 20, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 20, 2011 Thanks for that information, Karma.  If you are having withdrawal symptoms, and your symptoms tend toward early-morning anxiety, anxiety, insomnia, or any variety of "alerting" -- your adrenals are working fine and you do not want to do anything to stimulate them.  Adrenals take orders from the brain. They do not act independently.  Alternative therapists always suspect the liver or adrenals of causing problems, but few have any understanding at all of withdrawal syndrome.  When you have withdrawal syndrome, your body is not functioning normally, not even as normally as someone who has developed a disease affecting the adrenals. Your brain is sending unusual alerting messages to your adrenals, and your adrenals respond.  In my opinion, unless you had pre-existing adrenal issues, doing anything to "balance" the adrenals is only going to complicate your situation. Trying to cleanse the liver only adds stress to your already stress situation.  It's true DHEA and pregnenelone are unpredictable for women with withdrawal syndrome -- as are estrogen or progesterone. (I believe one of our community recently tried pregnenelone -- search in the Symptoms section.) This is because of withdrawal-induced hypersensitivity. Too much and you'll get a paradoxical reaction. That goes for adaptogens, too. I can say this from personal experience.  There are no silver bullets for withdrawal syndrome, including addressing the adrenals. And you could make yourself a lot sicker by messing with them. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Alto, when you had your endocrine work up, what levels of cortisol did it show? We're they elevated at all? We're there any abnormalities to the test? Thanks , karma and alto for getting back to me so soon on this. I pretty much expected this advise (and experience) from you but was hopeful to try something else. What is anybody's experience with ibuprofen for these headaches? I took one last night and wonder if even that can aggravate withdrawal symptoms? Thanks again guys. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 20, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yes, my cortisol was elevated, measured by the 24-hour urine test (supposedly the gold standard).  But my endocrinologist couldn't do anything with the information because there was no sign of tumor.  So, okay, we know cortisol is elevated in the alerting-type withdrawal syndrome -- and it may be subclinical and not show up on the tests -- but what to do about it? That's why we have topics about cortisol-opposing supplements, etc. in Symptoms.  Yes, I'd take aspirin or ibuprofen for a headache. I take an 81mg aspirin every night, for general health reasons, and I find it relaxing, too.  I've also found magnesium citrate will work on headaches I got in withdrawal. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
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