Waltjie: I'm gonna try to get off my pills

[Waltjie]

11 minutes ago, powerback said:

Hi waltjie im no mod but there's nothing strange with affects with tapering,I feel your pain im in the same boat with tapering ,im no were near 0 and my symptoms are chronic ,dont panic ,try all the calming techniques .I just thought ide reply and give some suport ,the mods can be busy with a lot .

Peace to you .

PB

 

Thanks so much for the feedback x

[powerback]

3 minutes ago, Waltjie said:

 

Thanks so much for the feedback x

Your very welcome ,Im having a heavy day of symptoms and trying to ride the wave ,I will force myself for a walk soon .

Peace to you .

PB

[Altostrata]

Stabilization can take months.

[Waltjie]

Thanks Alto. One day at a time. 

[Waltjie]

I guess I would be stating the obvious to say this, but I wish I could have just ONE day where I feel ¨normal¨ so I can have proof for myself that this shall pass one day. I wish I was back to where I was 2 months ago, so I can start tapering again.... urgh. 

 

Wishing everyone a great day!

[Waltjie]

Hey Everyone!

 

Just a short update... I'm EXTREMELY HAPPY to report that I am feeling so much better than I did a few days ago and I am optimistic about the future yet again!

 

Much love and gratitude to all!

[ChessieCat]

That's really great news.  I don't want to be a wet blanket, but just want you to be aware, that you may experience windows and waves - Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

But if that happens, it's good to come back here to remind yourself that you are improving.

[Waltjie]

15 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

That's really great news.  I don't want to be a wet blanket, but just want you to be aware, that you may experience windows and waves - Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

But if that happens, it's good to come back here to remind yourself that you are improving.

 

Thanks Chessie,

 

I'm very well aware of this, yes. I'm just grateful for an improvement after the long wave.

[kesh]

9 hours ago, Waltjie said:

Hey Everyone!

 

Just a short update... I'm EXTREMELY HAPPY to report that I am feeling so much better than I did a few days ago and I am optimistic about the future yet again!

 

Much love and gratitude to all!

 

This is a powerful thing to remember if you ever hit a bad wave again. They get better and you are the living proof.

[Waltjie]

Yes indeed Kesh! Next time I will refer back to this!

It's wonderful to be reminded that the bad days don't last forever... 

[megb]

Hi Waltjie, 

 

I just read through your thread. Looks like you're doing well! I also have delayed waves while tapering. I've been on 10mg for almost 5 months (purposely) and am shocked I'm not having more issues than I am. Sometimes your body will surprise you  

 

It can feel like the waves last FOREVER and the windows are a flash - BUT as Chessie mentioned, this pattern is expected and means we are healing. It's important to keep listening to your body and never being ashamed to keep holding at whatever dose you're WDing in. I have to daily remind myself this is not a race. By going as slow as my brain/body tell me to, I'm doing myself a big service and able to continue functioning - which is HUGE. Especially after knowing what it's like not to function well. 

 

You can do this! We are all for you. 

Meg

[Waltjie]

5 hours ago, megb said:

Hi Waltjie, 

 

I just read through your thread. Looks like you're doing well! I also have delayed waves while tapering. I've been on 10mg for almost 5 months (purposely) and am shocked I'm not having more issues than I am. Sometimes your body will surprise you  

 

It can feel like the waves last FOREVER and the windows are a flash - BUT as Chessie mentioned, this pattern is expected and means we are healing. It's important to keep listening to your body and never being ashamed to keep holding at whatever dose you're WDing in. I have to daily remind myself this is not a race. By going as slow as my brain/body tell me to, I'm doing myself a big service and able to continue functioning - which is HUGE. Especially after knowing what it's like not to function well. 

 

You can do this! We are all for you. 

Meg

 

Thank you SO MUCH for this wonderful reply. I very much appreciate it!

 

Love and Light to You

 

[Waltjie]

Hi Everyone. 

 

So the last couple of weeks I've been struggling with some morning anxiety again. Not too the degree that I can't function or anything, but very annoying and discouraging nonetheless. 

I've been holding at 10mg (down from 15mg) now for almost 5 months now. Too scared to drop again and for what might happen. On Monday I decided to drop 10%. I did this for 3 days, but I started freaking out and panicking and went back to my "safe" 10mg. Today I feel rather spaced out and can't stop worrying about my symptoms. Like I'm trapped in my head... Sometimes I really wonder if I am THAT person who's brain has been damaged beyond repair..........

[ChessieCat]

There are other ways of reducing instead of 10% of previous dose + 4 week hold.  You could reduce by a smaller percentage, eg 5%.

 

The BrassMonkey Slide.  You reduce by 2.5% of previous dose each week for 4 weeks and after the 4th reduction you hold for 3 weeks instead of 1.

 

Brass Monkey Slide

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases
Rhi's "Start Small, Listen to Your Body" Taper Plan

[Waltjie]

I'm so scared by all the horror stories I've read about some people like us trying to get off the medication, and then eventually, out of desperation, go back on but then it doesn't work anymore...

[Waltjie]

It is so crazy how the smallest little change can throw everything out! A week ago I was feeling OK, and now I'm a mess...... Just because of trying to drop my dosage I honestly don't know how some people do it.

[Waltjie]

This whole week so far I've felt what I guess people call 'derealisation'... Like I'm not really tuned into reality or something. It's not that I am confused, but more like being somewhat 'out of tune'... This morning I forced myself to get up an hour earlier and got on my bike to cycle for half an hour. I actually felt pretty good afterwards and for the better part of the morning. It's late afternoon now, and now I'm not so well. I can't understand how, after nearly two months of feeling stable, I now feel so horrible again. Just because of the small drop I attempted last week? Was that a mistake? 

 

I am confused about what I should do now... Do I just ride this out and hope to get better, or do I try to change my dosage again? 

[Waltjie]

Any feedback, from anyone...? Please.

[Songbird]

Sometimes during a taper you may find you need to hold for a while, rather than continue tapering at the same rate.  Also, the percentage drop can be reduced so that dose reductions are less of a shock to the system.  Once you restabilise, you could consider doing smaller dose drops in future. 

 

Escitalopram is a strong drug - 10mg doesn't sound like much but it's similar to taking 20mg of citalopram or paroxetine - so getting from 15mg down to 10mg is actually quite a big reduction.  Your system has done a lot of work to get that far, so at least pat yourself on the back for the progress you've already made.

 

Reading your posts above, it sounds like a lot of your anxiety may have been due to you freaking yourself out with worrying, rather than as a direct result of the drop.  It might be worth investing some time into some good self-help techniques around fear, worry, and anxiety, and also relaxation techniques.  Having a good set of coping skills is tremendously helpful for getting through this process.

[ChessieCat]

17 hours ago, Waltjie said:

Just because of the small drop I attempted last week?

 

That was a 10% reduction, going from 10mg to 9mg.  Many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go.  There do seem to be some doses along the way that are harder to get through.  You might find that reducing by 5% instead of 10% is better.

 

Once I get under 10mg I'm going to be reducing by 0.5mg every 3 weeks until I get to about 6mg (depending on how things go).  I did a similar thing once I got under 20mg.  I went down by 1mg every 3 weeks until I got to 12mg and then I started going down by 1mg and holding for 4 weeks.

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

 

[Waltjie]

18 minutes ago, Songbird said:

Sometimes during a taper you may find you need to hold for a while, rather than continue tapering at the same rate.  Also, the percentage drop can be reduced so that dose reductions are less of a shock to the system.  Once you restabilise, you could consider doing smaller dose drops in future. 

 

Escitalopram is a strong drug - 10mg doesn't sound like much but it's similar to taking 20mg of citalopram or paroxetine - so getting from 15mg down to 10mg is actually quite a big reduction.  Your system has done a lot of work to get that far, so at least pat yourself on the back for the progress you've already made.

 

Reading your posts above, it sounds like a lot of your anxiety may have been due to you freaking yourself out with worrying, rather than as a direct result of the drop.  It might be worth investing some time into some good self-help techniques around fear, worry, and anxiety, and also relaxation techniques.  Having a good set of coping skills is tremendously helpful for getting through this process.

 

Songbird,

 

Thank you for your reply! I really appreciate it! Feels like I am going insane and not going to get stable ever again. I think what you say is right. I obviously was not ready for a cut, and now I have somehow "flicked a switch" and my anxiety is in overdrive! I will need to CALM DOWN and get myself back to a manageable place.

 

So I'm not changing ANYTHING. 

[Waltjie]

19 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

That was a 10% reduction, going from 10mg to 9mg.  Many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go.  There do seem to be some doses along the way that are harder to get through.  You might find that reducing by 5% instead of 10% is better.

 

Once I get under 10mg I'm going to be reducing by 0.5mg every 3 weeks until I get to about 6mg (depending on how things go).  I did a similar thing once I got under 20mg.  I went down by 1mg every 3 weeks until I got to 12mg and then I started going down by 1mg and holding for 4 weeks.

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

 

 

ChessieCat,

 

Thank you for your response! I guess that I have no choice really right now, but to just HOLD and hope this horrible anxiety passes...

 

Wish I didn't try to drop.

[ChessieCat]

You had been holding for quite a few months so it was understandable that you thought it would be okay.  Don't beat yourself up over it.  Just accept it as a lesson that you need to go a bit slower from now on.

[Waltjie]

31 minutes ago, Songbird said:

 

Escitalopram is a strong drug - 10mg doesn't sound like much but it's similar to taking 20mg of citalopram or paroxetine - so getting from 15mg down to 10mg is actually quite a big reduction.  Your system has done a lot of work to get that far, so at least pat yourself on the back for the progress you've already made.

 

 

It seems like Escitalopram is the most difficult to get off out of ALL the drugs!

[Songbird]

19 hours ago, Waltjie said:

 

It seems like Escitalopram is the most difficult to get off out of ALL the drugs!

 

I think the SNRIs like Effexor can be even worse than SSRIs to get off, but most ADs can be difficult (hence this forum).   Whichever one you are on, withdrawal can be very challenging, and you need to give yourself some credit for the reduction you've managed to do already.  As I said, from 15mg to 10mg is a pretty good reduction, that's one third of your original dose.

 

If you are experiencing anxiety symptoms, it can help to incorporate some relaxation exercises into your day.  They can be any style, whatever you like or that you find works best for you.  For example:  meditation, gentle yoga, progressive muscle relaxation, breathing exercises, tai chi, guided visualisations, and so on.  I especially like recordings that have someone speaking relaxing words with gentle background music.  You just lie there and listen!  Relaxation exercises work by evoking the relaxation response which helps to counteract the "fight-or-flight" response of anxiety.

[Waltjie]

Thank you Songbird! I am going to stay where I am now indefinitely. 

[Songbird]

I've found that if I listen to my body, I know when I feel ready to taper.  If I'm not sure, then I wait.  Once you feel ready, you can try again with a smaller drop next time.  In the meantime, be kind and gentle with yourself.

[Waltjie]

Still extremely anxious. I have DP/DR as well. Battle to fall asleep at night. 

This is so horrible!!! 

[Songbird]

See if you can find some relaxation exercises on YouTube.  Try progressive muscle relaxation.  There are lots of relaxation music tracks on there too.  Don't battle to fall asleep - battles are stressful.  Just allow yourself to rest whether you feel sleepy or not.  Listen to some gentle relaxing music.  You might fall asleep if you're not trying so hard to do it.  If you've been lying awake for a while, do something else for a while, but nothing stimulating.  Read a book (but nothing too stimulating, no thrillers) or draw or knit or do a few gentle yoga poses.  Yes, it is horrible but it will settle down eventually, and you can help it along by encouraging the relaxation response.

[Waltjie]

4 minutes ago, Songbird said:

See if you can find some relaxation exercises on YouTube.  Try progressive muscle relaxation.  There are lots of relaxation music tracks on there too.  Don't battle to fall asleep - battles are stressful.  Just allow yourself to rest whether you feel sleepy or not.  Listen to some gentle relaxing music.  You might fall asleep if you're not trying so hard to do it.  If you've been lying awake for a while, do something else for a while, but nothing stimulating.  Read a book (but nothing too stimulating, no thrillers) or draw or knit or do a few gentle yoga poses.  Yes, it is horrible but it will settle down eventually, and you can help it along by encouraging the relaxation response.

 

At this point in time it really feels like I am going insane and not going to get better. I will try to relax as much as possible. Thanks!

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Waltjie said:

 

At this point in time it really feels like I am going insane and not going to get better. I will try to relax as much as possible. Thanks!

Hi W I empathise with you greatly ,I'm tortured myself ,to quote a British singer recently he said about he's own battle with "mental illness " ,my own brain is trying to destroy  me he said  .this is a very apt  way to put it .I cant believe how fragile I am.

I now regret it deeply not tapering properly last year ,I kept stopping and not doing it to be able to get through life ,I know now this to be a huge mistake ,at least I could of been off the drug and suffering like this .

Be safe . 

[Waltjie]

I am seriously considering that I might have to go to a hospital. I haven't slept properly for 3 nights now... I don't know how much longer I can do this.

[wantrelief]

Hi Waltjie - I am so sorry you are feeling so poorly.  Try to hang on as this should pass.  I know you've been really patient and it sounds like things have not improved for you but they should in time. Do you have support where you are?  Does anyone know what you are going through?

[Waltjie]

7 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Hi Waltjie - I am so sorry you are feeling so poorly.  Try to hang on as this should pass.  I know you've been really patient and it sounds like things have not improved for you but they should in time. Do you have support where you are?  Does anyone know what you are going through?

 

It really feels like I am never going to get better. I can't sleep, and the only way I manage to get a few hours is by taking Zolpidem. No amount of relaxation or anything else is working. My family know about my situation, but I am sure it must be incredibly difficult for them to not be able to do anything......

[wantrelief]

I am so glad your family knows about your situation and what is going on, it is good you have support.  I know how difficult this is.  Insomnia is just awful.  I know how hard it is to hold on and how it feels like it is not going to end but it will.  If you can, try not to take the Zolpidem.  I ended up on a benzo (Klonopin) and now have to get off of that too.  You are not alone, Waltjie.  

[wantrelief]

This video helped me feel some hope yesterday.  I hope it helps you a bit.