peggy: 13 years of Effexor

[caro123]

Alto, forgot. Caro

[jr1985]

The drug companies are so useless. Why do they advise a slow taper without providing the adequate doses to allow you to do that, then when you ask for help they basically tell you what you already know "taper slowly under doctors supervision!". WE KNOW!!!! We just can't do it because the doses you proved aren't small enough, so we have to resort to weighing beads! ARRRGGHHHH!!! They said same thing to Alto when she emailed the company about tapering Pristiq. Idiots.

[peggy]

my updose probably took around 3 weeks to get rid of the psychological symptoms - thoughts/anxiety - although they were reducing in intensity over that time. The fatigue and off and on eye aches are taking a little longer to resolve.

Haven't got that spring in my step - more like a hop

[Karma]

It sounds like things are improving for you, Peggy, if rather slowly. That sounds like good news. Keep us posted.

 

Karma

[peggy]

Thanks Karma!

all the best to you!!

[peggy]

thought i might do an update - have been reducing at 10% every 3-4 weeks consistently and doing great. Now down to 22mg for about 2 weeks. This is where i need to be careful not to gain momentum and trip over. I am sleeping very well, zero anxiety (unless warranted). What more could i ask for?

 

I have been travelling a bit lately and my internet connection is a bit haphazard which is why i haven't been on much.

[dalsaan]

Hi Peggy

 

Great to hear such a positive update. Sounds like you have it sorted and it's working for you. Well done. I hope the rest of your taper runs smoothly

 

Dalsaan

[Jemima]

That's wonderful, Peggy! Yes, please don't get impatient and speed up your taper! We have lots of reports on the forum about how that works out.

[peggy]

I am just going to have a little whine...

 

3 months ago i did a fred Flinstone banana peel slip and fell hard on my elbow on a tiled floor. The initial pain up into my shoulder joint and humerus was excruciating, but settled to a dull ache over a couple of days - i can't really remember, but i think it settled completely but i felt like something was not quite right and it starting getting slowly sorer and my range of motion was severely limited- i saw an acupuncturist and osteopath half a dozen times, both of which didn't seem to improve it at all. When the pain became unbearable, I finally went to my GP, had US and MRI - i have frozen shoulder and a cartilage tear It is difficult to sleep, my whole left shoulder area is painful, all the biomechanics are affected which of course makes it more painful.

 

I have an appointment with an orthopedic specialist in a month - but i don't think there is much they can do before the frozen shoulder resolves itself - i am doing weekly physiotherapy and am being diligent with my home stretching/exercises. From what i have researched i will probably need surgery for the tear (SLAP tear)....

 

On a positive note - i finally gave in and commenced a low dose oestrogen for hot flashes and i am very happy to report that they have now gone!!!! I think if my shoulder wasn't so sore i would be sleeping better too.

[strawberry17]

Oh Peggy poor you My husband had a frozen shoulder last year and found it very very uncomfortable, it did get better though. It's horrible when a nagging pain keeps you awake. Well done though for keeping on top of the physio/exercises, hopefully your diligence will pay off!

[xDebbiejo]

Oh gosh sorry to hear of your fall Peggy

 

Really happy to hear your taper is going well though

 

It's great to hear many positive results now being posted

 

Debbie x

[peggy]

this week when i was counting out my little beads i decided to count the beads in all the capsules that i opened. There was a big variance between 126 and 148 beads. I have been reducing by 10% the number of beads - so on 60 beads i am somewhere between 15 and 17.8mg I may have to go to a digital scale - that seems like too big a variation. I am feeling very well and not keen to rock the boat!!!!

[strawberry17]

Glad to hear you're feeling well, that was an awful lot of counting this week!!

[Altostrata]

Yes, the bead-counting tapering method is sort of approximate.

[caro123]

Hi Peggy, So glad things going ok. Thanks for sharing about the "counting beads" - its such a nightmare! I think as we tapper to lower doses those scales will save a lot of problems. I had difficulty with the counting beads, so rushed to get to the 37.5mg dosage to avoid the "counting". Not a good idea to rush these things. I havn't felt great but will get a scale for my next reductions. Take care! Hope you enjoy your holidays!

[dalsaan]

I think Dr Glenmullen talks about the problem of brad variation in his book the antidepressant solution. From memory it was in relation to a teenager that was coming off by taking beads out of capsules and kept having wd when he was being very careful. Then he did what you have done, count how many beads in each capsule

 

 

I'm not on the bead trip, I'm lucky I've got liquid. But I remember saying to myself 'if that guy can get himself through and persevere then I can'

[peggy]

i haven't read that book Dalsaan - i am not sure about the implications of the bead numbers - it would be interesting to weigh the capsules and see if the weight varies as well. Some beads are smaller, but i didn't think they are THAT much smaller.

 

Nice to see you Caro! I was wondering how you were going - please take care from here on in - don't let the wheels fall off your wagon!

[Altostrata]

The capsules are filled by weight and should all be the same, unless something went wrong at the factory.

[Skyler]

Happy Holidays to you peggy, which ever way you choose to celebrate. Solstice or Santa.

[peggy]

and same to you Skyler!

[peggy]

the last couple of days i have felt a little uneasy - even though i usually think about my reductions a lot- these last few days there is a different 'feeling' attached to those thoughts - sort of like my mood goes down a few notches and my thoughts crowd around the reductions in a negative way. I have been steadily going at 10% every three weeks with the only symptom being disordered sleep for about 8 or 9 days after the reduction - it doesn't seem to bother me at the time and i am not tired during the day. The last couple of nights though i have slept through - but when i wake up i immediately start thinking 'how am i today?'

 

every other time this has happened i have immediately updosed - the other times i had gained momentum in my reductions and gone a little more than 10% every couple of weeks so they caught up with me. It isn't as bad this time, but low level and niggling. I am hoping i can ride it out but i have an insanely busy time coming up in 2 and a half weeks and i have to be firing on all my cylinders....

[strawberry17]

You're doing so well, if you're sleeping ok I would stick with it but definately no more reductions until insanely busy time is over.

[areyouthere]

That's a tough call. I guess you have to ask yourself how important it is for/to you to be firing on all 4 cylinders. Basically you're deciding should I up dose and be confident in the upcoming stressful situation or should I take a chance. Only you can make that decision.

 

If I were you I'd for sure contemplate your feeling "uneasy" and "different" before deciding . Sounds like that is a part of the equation here.

[Altostrata]

Yes, hold, don't put yourself under additional stress by reducing right now.

 

The disordered sleep for 9 days may indicate your decreases are slightly too large.

[peggy]

so, 3 days ago i decided to up dose by 3 beads - that's half the reduction i had taken, so effectively changing a 10% reduction to a 5% reduction. Really, i wasn't feeling too bad - but i really don't want to go back to where i have been in the past - i do feel better since i up dosed - (still not quite right) but certainly a little more stable, given that it probably hasn't had time to be effective yet, it was probably not needed and the feelings would have passed. I find it a constant battle not to evaluate how i am feeling constantly and not to compare how i feel now to last time or the time before and then try to predict how tomorrow will be. I am trying to notice that those thoughts/feelings are there and just move on. Difficult, but if i can get through this and find light again it will give me a big boost to my confidence.

 

As i said a few posts up, i do quite often think about my taper - and of course coming here most days keeps my mind on it, but the feelings, or mood surrounding the thoughts changed suddenly last week - i will know when it passes because those feelings around it will go again. I have had periods of a few hours at a time over the last week when the feeling lifts - usually by the afternoon, and then it comes back when i wake up the next day. I have been sleeping better though the last few days.

 

I should have not reduced 20 days ago - i was feeling no symptoms of withdrawal per se, but i didn't have the lightness of heart or joy - that is kind of my barometer. I had a lot of sadness prior to this reduction - my DIL miscarried and she was so sad about it, scared and worried about the whole process and her distress really affected me. Also, i took my mother finally to a psycho geriatrician for assessment - have known for a few years that she has been developing dementia but she has refused assessment, or to even discuss it. He diagnosis made me sad - moderate to severe Alzheimers and vascular dementia - probably too late for the medications that can slow down the progress to work. All because she was so bloody stubborn! She lives 600 miles away so it is not easy to supervise. She shouldn't be living at home alone but we are not going to forcibly remove her. We have organised some home help and a nursing service to visit daily to give her the medication. My brother lives close to her and takes her lunch every day ( he has been fantastic, totally surprised me).

[Gardner]

Peggy

I don't know you well but just reading this it seems like you had a lot of things going on that would not bring joy to your heart when you did this reduction. maybe my cyber hug will help

[Karma]

Hi Peggy,

 

You have made such great progress in your taper. The up-dose was probably the right thing to do given the stressers in your life. I hope that you soon feel some relief from the feelings your experiencing. I think we have to give ourselves a pat on the back for knowing our bodies well enough to recognize uncomfortable feelings and making an adjustment before we get to a really bad place.

 

I've had to hold longer than I want to on my taper due to stress at work. We just have to monitor our bodies and make the best decisions we can.

 

I'm sorry about your mother's diagnosis, but I am happy to hear that your brother is stepping up and helping and that you can get some visiting nurse support. It is very difficult to manage these things remotely. I have a friend whose father had to be moved in to a nursing home (I think they call them something else these days) and he is over 2000 miles away - very difficult for her.

 

Sending your love, light, healing energy, strength and courage.

 

Karma

[peggy]

thanks Gardner and Karma,

 

this site is such a wonderful place

[peggy]

i feel like i dodged a bullet and have pretty much stabilised back down again - phew! only took about 8 days or so.

 

i think 10% is now too much of a cut - will go somewhere between 5 and 8% from now on - my aim is to have NO symptoms if at all possible!!!!

[Gardner]

Cyber hugs for you.

 

Glad your doing better. I so admire you tenancy, esp. The support your giving others while dealing with your own issues.

[strawberry17]

Peggy - I too find 10% is way to much of a cut for me as well and anyway it's all about being able to function whilst tapering isn't it? it's just a trickier game when you get lower in doses. Well done for dodging that bullet!!

[peggy]

maybe i haven't dodged that bullet after all - i have been soooo fatigued the last two days - unusual for me, and it's hard when i feel a wee bit wobbly not to start thinking i am not out of those woods yet

[strawberry17]

Peggy I just read back and I'm sorry to hear about your mother

It's always so hard to know what to do with the taper when there's stress in our lives, stay put and ride it out, or updose a bit. It's difficult to know if we're catastrophising about something and aggravating a withdrawal further, or whether it really is a full blown withdrawal. I hope the fatigue passes and you feel brighter.

[peggy]

feeling like i went over the edge last night back to those horrid adrenaline surges again. OMG I must be the densest person in withdrawing history. Eventually surely i will catch on. In early january when everything was going swimmingly, i remember thinking 'maybe i should take an extra couple of weeks without reducing, just to keep it stable' - but i didn't. This time i have been very diligent about not going over the 10%, but still every 22 days or so, probably should have stretched that out a bit.

 

I have never really related fatigue to withdrawal - before effexor, fatigue was probably the only feeling i had other than 'good' and the occasional nervousness (always situationally congruent though) I am very cut off to my inner feelings - we weren't allowed feelings as kids. I HAVE had quite a bit of fatigue in the last few weeks - even prior to feeling a bit 'iffy' again. So, maybe i need to be more aware of fatigue as a red flag.

 

I think i may updose from 14mg back to 18mg. 4mg may sound like a lot but it's probably equivalent to about 1.5mg paxil... what do people think?

[Altostrata]

I wouldn't jump up a full 4mg. Maybe 2mg.

[peggy]

Alto, why do you say that? I was hoping for a faster stabilisation LOL - would rather get better faster even if it means another couple of months on the other end...