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Sadboy: Zoloft withdrawal, 2 months in

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Sadboy

Hello everyone, 

i am a 21 year old student who had been taking zoloft for 4 months. I did this for ocd and anxiety related issues. Since taking the medication i became depressed and suicidal. Also i developed sleeping issues (waking up during the night and waking up early without being able getting back to sleep). After 4 months my psy finally decided to take me off. This was because my suicidal tendencies were becoming stronger and so was the depression. She tapered me off very quickly (8 days) and i prolonged it to 15 days. After that i quitted and i am now 2 months later from that. So in total i quitted for 2 and a halve month. In the beginnen i got dizzy and started sleeping even worse. The physical symptoms left. But now i am still coping with the sleeping problems. The newest problem is i got some sort of nightmarish depression combined with agression. This makes me very suicidal and every second is hell. I dont understand, why am i feeling this. I only took kt for 4 months and now i am more depressed than ever. Remember i have never been depressed before tsking the meds. Now i am thinking about escaping the torture (thats what it feels like). I feel alone because my psy says it isnt the medication but i am doing this to myself. She says i am obsessed with wanting to sleep good and wanting to feel right. But seriously. This feeling is so painfull. Everyone sets me off. I get mad because of everything. Sometimes i have good days and than i think everything will be allright. But after a few days or even the same day i will go down to the pits of hell again. I am reaching out because i really need succes stories, advice and most of all i need hope. I feel very alone in this struggle. Will i be the social guy again i once was before the meds...

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Gridley

Hello, Sadly, and welcome to SA.

 

Regarding suicide, if this is a danger, I urge you to get in-person help locally.  We are an online resource, and this is beyond our competence.
 

It appears from your description that you had an adverse reaction to the Zoloft, explaining the depression and suicidal feelings while you were on the drug.  Four months is long enough for an antidepressant to get its hooks into you, which would account for the withdrawal symptoms you are now experiencing after your fast taper.   Insomnia, depression, aggression and suicidal thoughts are common withdrawal symptoms.  The vast majority of psychiatrists know little, if anything, about antidepressant withdrawal and in fact don't believe it exists.  You are not alone in encountering this unfortunate attitude.

 

 

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how long it will take to return to homeostasis, but the brain is remarkably resilient, and return it does. 
 
 
Please be aware that sometime withdrawal symptoms don't appear immediately after a too-fast taper.
 

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.
 
 

There are many, many members of this site who have gotten off psychiatric drugs, including Zoloft.  Please Google "survivingantidepressants.org zoloft success stories"   The fact that you are having good days is very encouraging.

 

I have two suggestions to help you cope with withdrawal.  First,  though we don't recommend many supplements because the nervous systems of those in withdrawal are very sensitive, we do recommend magnesium and omega oil.
 

 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.
 
Second, many members have found the non-drug techniques in the following links very helpful in dealing with withdrawal.
 
 
 
This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gridley

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Sadboy

Hey man i use cbd oil to cope with the insonia, which works wonders. I am just generally scared i will feel empty en depressed forever. Maybe because i tapered too fast or because i reacted so strongly to the medication anyways. I am not planning taking a small dose to taper off, because i reacted so badly to the medication. And also because i have sweared on my life i will never take any of that **** again, whatever happens

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Sadboy

Hey everyone, is there anyone out here?

 

I am updating now, 2 months after my last post. I am still in withdrawal. I still have severe sleeping problems and still battle with depression, numbness etc. Also i now have ocd thoughts that shift very quickly. Mostly its about things the withdrawal causes ( being obsessive about being short breathed, or not being able to sleep). The ocd is very different from what i used to have before the meds. I also still battle with depression and an overall feeling of not being myself. I think the depression got a little bit better, but the situation is still horrible. I now have a psych that himself took these meds for ocd and had the same reaction as we guys had. He thought he went crazy etc. but at the time he didn't know the meds caused it. He now helps people through this journey and that helps me alot. But still, the fear of never getting the old me back is always present, and i only used the med or 4 months. I have now been longer in withdrawal than the time i spend taking these meds. I really could use some hope, and some tips maybe? I use cbd oil for when the frustration gets out of hand, this helps. I find it hard to accept my situation. I used to be a very social guy, 21 and studying. Now i dont speak anyone anymore, stopped studying and lay in bed most of the time. Just because i took some stupid pills for 4 months. It's really hard to accept that.

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thecowisback

sorry to hear you're having such a rough time ☹️ i took prozac for ocd and since coming off my ocd has changed as well. i still have 'pure o' but the whole pattern and nature of the thoughts has changed from what i had before prozac. i'm working hard on telling myself my thoughts aren't real, but are caused by the ocd monster trying to trick me. i find the book 'Brain Lock' really good. i also have horrible depression which i never had before withdrawal or before taking the pills. as many othe people will tell you on here it's all a matter of time. you will get better xxxxx 

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Sadboy

Hey mate. U know what helped me. Not fighting the ocd thoughts. U just need to accept the fealing of dread and fear of ocd. Dont fight it. U have to find the root, where does it come from. Fighting ocd with thoughts is almost impossible. Just dont fight, but accept. It really is the only way. U can almost not rationalize ur way out of aggressive ocd. Also cbd oil helps a lot mate cause it lessens the fear. 

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Sadboy

Hey guys i am here to tell i am improving. Slowly but hey, its improvement. The lows are less, but a normal day for me is just still depressed and a big nothing. Also i am socially anxious now, caused by the big mothing and me not knowing what to say to peopelle because of it. I do have good days, they give me hope, and become better and better. The difference is, that i experience way less nightmarish deep lows, which i used to before often

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powerback

Hi sadboy  cherish this healing ,good on ye .you are so young ,this is brilliant for you .you've years to learn the coping skills for anxiety .Did you have this as  a child .

Anxiety is a powerful beast .being young and in college means partying but use this lesson wisely .I'm sober  3.8 years but i didn't give up anywhere near  early enough .being awkward in social situations  and anxiety pushed me to need a way out unconsciously  but then the substance over powers us .vicious circle .

 the advice from SA is stay well away from alcohol ,don't risk it for a long time .get stuck into healthy habits and activities .

Don't go near my thread there's no point looking through a horror show lol.

👍

 

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Sadboy

I quit all substances for a year before meds, the meds were my last stap to recovery, boy was i wrong. The original problems i had are almost completely gone because its nothing compared to this. I am far from healed but i notice it getting better. In one way i am glad this is happening cause it woke me up

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Sadboy

Hey everyone. 

 

The past four days a wave has hit me again. Was feeling good for 2 weeks before that. I am now 10 months off zoloft, i used it for just 5 months. At first waves were terrible. I was suicidal during them, very dark thoughts, very fatigued, obsessive, feelings of disconnect, hopelessness no motivation and anhedonia. Nowadays my waves are mainly fatigue, anhedonia and feelings of disconnect. Luckily not suicidal anymore. To be honoust my windows are also not like my old self, but there is a definite contrast between windows and waves, with both getting better i guess (always hard to tell for me if things are getting better when in a wave). During all these months my libido is very very low. Sometimes when i feel more like myself again it is also sorta back, it goes hand in hand with my mood i think. Lately i have been thinking if i may be dealing with adrenal fatigue because of this all which is giving me this fatigue. Or maybe adrenal fatigue is part of withdrawal? Like, when you put the symptoms next to each other they are very alike. Stress, intolerance, fatigued, anxiety, low self worth, social isolation, low libido. All symptoms withdrawal and adrenal fatigue have in common. Maybe adrenal fatigue happens during withdrawal and explains why after withdrawal people still can deal with fatigue etc. I have the feeling i have the worst behind me but i cant get out of this fatigued state which makes me anhedonic. Or am i just trying to put another label on just the windows and waves of protracted withdrawal? Opinions are very much appreciated! Thanks guys. 

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Sadboy

Sup everyone just wanting to let everyone know the keto diet helped tremendously when it comes to the anxiety and obsessive problem i was dealing with. Yesterday i had a obsessive episode again and i realised i didnt have one for like 2 weeks before that. Normally i had them 24/7. The episode was like 10 minutes and weng away again. For real keto for me makes withdrawal so much easier. I am not scared all the time anymore. Because of this sleep also improved. 

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Gridley

Sadboy,

 

I'm glad you're so much better.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.
 
 

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Sadboy

Anyone? 

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powerback

HI sadboy ,I came to the same thoughts about adrenal fatigue ,it all adds up to that for sure ,do we even need a diagnosis when our body's are reacting like they are and telling us  ,the last year as been horrific for me and I think its a build up of stress and my body snapped .

Your off the drug so fairplay .keep learning how to heal as natural as you can . 

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Sadboy

@powerback are you totally off? 

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ChessieCat

This is SA's PSSD topic.  I have moved your post there.  pssd-post-ssri-sexual-dysfunction

 

Please do a search to find existing topics before creating a new one.  Thank you.

 

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ChessieCat
15 minutes ago, Sadboy said:

I will be microdosing Ibogaine for the anhedonia

 

Treating anhedonia with Ibogaine doesn't seem logical.  Just my personal opinion.

 

These from wiki:

 

Ibogaine is a naturally occurring psychoactive substance found in plants in the Apocynaceae family such as Tabernanthe iboga, Voacanga africana and Tabernaemontana undulata. It is a psychedelic with dissociative properties.

 

and

 

In psychology, dissociation is any of a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from physical and emotional experiences. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality, rather than a loss of reality as in psychosis.

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ChessieCat
12 minutes ago, Leo1983 said:

@Sadboy take a look on google.

 

Type in " Porn addict treated with ibogaine at Harley street clinic". The Dr is called Dr

 

Then there are many more stories following that. Good luck but i need no more risks. 

 

Cheers

 

Leo

 

google search results

 

Don't just read the first one.

 

This is the link to the second one:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048310/Porn-addict-hell-Harley-Street-doctor-gave-Ibogaine-drug.html

Edited by ChessieCat

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ChessieCat

Trying Ibogaine may possibly make things much worse for you.

 

On 6/16/2011 at 4:45 AM, Altostrata said:

We do not advocate experimenting with hallucinogenics, psychedelic mushrooms, herbs, adaptogenics, or any gray-market drug. You never know exactly what you're getting and results are unpredictable even in people whose nervous systems have not been compromised by adverse drug reactions.

 

If your nervous system has been sensitized by adverse effects from psychiatric drugs (or street drugs) or withdrawal, , you could make yourself a lot worse by experimenting with hallucinogenics, etc., and the only remedy is to cope with your symptoms until they go away. We don't have any magic potions for you.

 

Try such substances at your own risk. If you take street drugs or gray-market drugs and have an adverse reaction, we may not be able to provide you support as you recover and may ask you to leave SurvivingAntidepressants.org.

 
(We do not know of any drugs or drug combination that will fix withdrawal syndrome. Reinstatement of the original drug, often at a low dose, sometimes helps and sometimes does not.)

 

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Sadboy

The iboga microdosing experiment is the best thing that ever happened to me. Its doing what i hoped it would do. My anhedonia is leaving and i am getting my libido back. I am now doing it for 2 weeks. I do this with stopdays. The funny thing is that when i stop i notice the ''gains'' i made. Its not that i have to keep taking this stuff, it really repairs, it doesnt just give you a quick fix. This is also backed up by science, it shows iboga increases gdnf (the brains repairing hormone) is increased drasticly when using iboga. It really feels like a wonderplant and i would feel **** if you all wont think about it because its labeled as drugs or dangerous. I think without this plant i would commit suicide, because i couldnt handle the anhedonia anymore. I  will post more about this experiment in a while and see how it turns out. Even family and friends are telling me they havent seen me like this in a year, and that they feel i am back. Crazy.

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eymen23
Posted (edited)

Sadboy,

 

I’m glad the ibogaine is treating you well, but two weeks is a very short span of time.  

 

At this stage it is a little premature to advertise this stuff as a miracle (as in Leo’s thread). I’m all for working solutions and fixes, but it would be good to hear a full account of your experience over a period of months. 

 

I really do hope it continues to be effective for you, but please bear in mind that it may not work the same for everybody here and that the benefits may not last. 

Edited by eymen23

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ChessieCat
Posted (edited)

@Leo1983

 

The posts in your topic between you and Sadboy were " disruptive and unproductive"

 

The last 2 posts, one made by you and another by Sadboy have been hidden.

 

EDITED to add:  If this continues a warning may be given.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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Sadboy

Sup everyone. Just wanted to update on the iboga adventure. Its still helping tremendously, family and myself are seeing the difference. Feeling more and more like myself again day by day. I can also finally be on these forums without being filled with anxiety, thinking this crap will never end. I have now been microdising ibogaine for a month and i have never returned to the empty anhedonic withdrawal state i was in before starting the microdose. I am not 100 percent cured, but i feel so so much better, its day and night. I will keep updating about it! 

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Diazk

So you can feel positive emotions again, where do you live?

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Sadboy

Sadly, you guys were right, ibogaine helped but nothing permanent and couldnt keep taking it. 

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Leo1983

Sorry to hear this.

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Sadboy

Hey everyone. Nowadays i am active on the pssd forum. Since doing the keto diet my obsessive/insomnia/anxiety problems caused by ssri went away. But the anhedonia and pssd/no libido stayed. I know the common believe on this forum is withdrawal, i dont believe in this anymore. I think in the first months it is. I dont have windos or waves. Its just a new homeostasis for me. I have done a lot of research. Like, a lot. I came to the conlcusion that in some of us our epegenetics have been changed. It has been proven ssris do this. When ur prone to this, due for example, being an overmethylater of ur genes (someone whose genes are easily "changed" /silenced by methylation). This causes our brains to not go back to normal mode. A new messed up homeastasis is created. I am going to a clinic in switzerland specialized in this. Through diet they tend to reverse/minimalize these gene changes that are made by meds, toxic substances, normal day to day life or even by ptsd (yes, ptsd can cause these gene changes too) I will report back how it all went.

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Leo1983

Hope it goes better than the last theory you had of withdrawal mate and it works better than the ibogaine

 

Fingers crossed.

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eymen23

Sadboy,

 

What is the name of this specialist clinic in Switzerland? 

 

In regards to your comment ‘I know the common belief on this forum is withdrawal, I don’t believe in this anymore’, I appreciate that you are entitled to your own opinions and beliefs, but isn’t it fair to say that even in your case, this alleged permanent change in homeostasis was caused by antidepressant withdrawal? 

 

We are aware that there are many adaptations made when the body is exposed to psychiatric drugs, some of which we are aware may have an epigenetic component. That is exactly the reason we advocate very slow tapering, so the body and nervous system have time to reverse these changes at a pace that does not cause frightening and sustained symptoms. We have often seen individuals find a healthier and happier homeostasis, many months and years after fast tapering a drug, so we don’t feel there is anything to indicate these changes are permanent. 

 

Epigenetic changes are a very interesting line of research and all manner of things in our environment have been linked to these changes. Diet, stress, lack of exercise, obesity, trauma, shift-work, alcohol consumption, infection; are all examples of environmental conditions that may trigger epigenetic changes. 

 

However, personally I would not disregard antidepressant withdrawal syndrome and see this as a matter of needing to follow a special protocol (which I’m sure is expensive). We often advocate healthy eating, healthy levels of exercise, positive distraction, meditation, CBT, sleep hygiene and most importantly giving your body time to heal. 

 

Epigenetic changes can be reversed and by looking after yourself using very well known methods of self-care like those described above, you might well save yourself the expense and disappointment of specialist clinics, whilst achieving the very same result. 

 

If you do decide to go to the clinic in Switzerland, I wish you all the best and I do hope it helps. Let us know how you get on. 

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Sadboy
Posted (edited)

Hey there. Yes I agree, these epigenetic changes were caused by the withdrawal. In a study regarding cocaine withdrawal they found out that during withdrawal, not when using the substance, most epigenetic changes are made in the body.    ''The most significant alterations in DNA methylation, they found, occurred during withdrawal and not during the exposure to the drug. Gal Yadid from Bar Ilan University said that, “During this period of withdrawal, hundreds of genes changed their state of DNA methylation including genes that were known before to be involved in addiction.”  

 

I also agree that tapering is very important. In this way u can minimize withdrawal, and minimize the epigenetic changes taking place. I sadly cold turkeyed. During withdrawal i didn't get better, I worsened. After 6 months i developed severe PSSD and anhedonia. I know the common believe here is that those 2 go away, and I agree in a lot of cases they do, but not for all.

 

Here is an interesting article regarding my point:  "It has been shown that the treatment of adolescent patients with obsessive–compulsive disorder with paroxetine causes significant reductions in the left amygdala volume 20, a part of the brain shown to be strongly involved in response to visually erotic stimuli 21. Such structural changes may take a very long time to reverse, if at all, in some patients.

 

Finally, it is becoming increasingly clear that epigenetic changes are involved in human phenotypic expression and disease 22, 23. Antidepressants can cause quite complex changes in gene expression 24, and it is possible that some of these changes are not normalized simply by withdrawing the drugs 25. It is not unprecedented for medications to cause persistent sexual side effects mediated by such epigenetic gene expression change. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2007.00630.x

 

To end this message. Yes, SSRI withdrawal definitly is a thing, and yes, I think a lot of people get out of it normally. But for the few unlucky epigenetically predisposed people, this state, caused by persisiting epigenetic changes, remains. I speak to a lot of people who are in this PSSD/anhedonia state 10 years plus. This exists. Ofcourse people also exist who heal naturally, the one doesn't exclude the other. 

Edited by eymen23
Removed quote and piece asking why his is under supervision

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Altostrata

Your theories are interesting, keep on reading and learning. I hope you don't mind, since you don't seem to be tapering, believe post-acute withdrawal symptoms must be something else, and are mainly interested in PSSD, there's no reason for staff to be using their time answering your posts.

 

You are welcome to discuss your ideas with other members in personal messages or e-mail or on specialized PSSD forums, but they are not applicable to the general community. You may feel better with a special diet, and I'm glad you do -- but this is not going to be the answer for everyone.

 

"Epigenetics" is a fancy word that means our bodies adapt to stimulus, then adapt again, to other stimulus. How they adapt is genetically determined. This is not a new idea, nor is it particularly useful here except as a restatement of neurological plasticity.

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Sadboy
11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Your theories are interesting, keep on reading and learning. I hope you don't mind, since you don't seem to be tapering, believe post-acute withdrawal symptoms must be something else, and are mainly interested in PSSD, there's no reason for staff to be using their time answering your posts.

 

You are welcome to discuss your ideas with other members in personal messages or e-mail or on specialized PSSD forums, but they are not applicable to the general community. You may feel better with a special diet, and I'm glad you do -- but this is not going to be the answer for everyone.

 

"Epigenetics" is a fancy word that means our bodies adapt to stimulus, then adapt again, to other stimulus. How they adapt is genetically determined. This is not a new idea, nor is it particularly useful here except as a restatement of neurological plasticity.

Hey just to be clear. I don't believe post acute withdrawal is fake. I believe it's real, and that I even experienced it myself. But I also believe there is a possibility of permanent genetic changes taking place, so severe, that some people can not revert this. Again, not the majority. This is also different from a brain healing. If a homeostasis is altered due to genetics being changed, there is no reason for the body to go back to the former healthy homeostasis, the body doesn't give the signal to go back to this because it thinks it's fine with the new drug altered homeostasis.

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Altostrata

Because the staff keeps a close eye on Intro topics for symptom updates, it would help us if you discuss your theories in the Events & Controversies forum instead so we don't have to review them. Thanks.

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