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Melatonin for sleep


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15 hours ago, Songbird said:

 

Are you able to cut it into smaller pieces?  e.g. if you could cut it into quarters that would give you a 0.75mg dose.

I ended up getting the natures bounty brand and it's 1mg. Apparently as long as I don't take more than that I should be fine.

Drugs I have been on- Vyvanse 30mg, Adderal, citalopram 30mg, Zoloft 20mg, rexulti 10mg,Wellbutrin, Lexapro 20mg, buspar, Prozac 20mg, Trazodone 50mg, Ritalin 20mg.

some of them I can't remember doses for. 

 

was on on Zoloft, Ritalin, and adderal between the ages of 11-13. Then I was on Celexa and Vyvanse, between the ages of 13-21. Don't remember exact dates. 

 

Then when I went off the celexa and Vyvanse abruptly and went on all of the other medications. Between the ages of 21 and 22. 

 I saw psychiatrist for about 3 months and was put on most of them on and off. I think it was the other SSRI's besides celexa and Zoloft , buspar, Wellbutrin, and rexulti. 

 

 Then I went inpatient a few times after that where it was diagnosed as a recurrence of depression and went on and off medications like celexa, Trazodone, and most recently about 3-4 weeks ago EMSam. I have been completely off medication since than.

supplements- magnesium 250mg, and 2 omega 3's. 

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I just wanted to say that a friend recommended and I am using now an extender release version of melatonin but it comes in 3 mg (from Amazon). Not sure if it makes a difference but thought I'd try it to help with the cortisol awakenings. It seems OK so far but I also had a window so not sure the sleep improvement was due to this or to the window. The wave is back and so are cortisol mornings. 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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2 hours ago, Onmyway said:

I just wanted to say that a friend recommended and I am using now an extender release version of melatonin but it comes in 3 mg (from Amazon).  

 

Onmyway, 3mg is high for those of us in WD.  We recommend starting out with around 0.25mg or 0.5 mg.  3mg can have a paradoxical (stimulating effect).  Something I've been doing that is helping a bit with sleep is taking my .5mg melatonin when I go to bed, and then taking 100mg magnesium glycinate when I wake up (usually around 3am) and then another 100mg magnesium around dawn.  We're all different, but it does help a bit, and sometimes "a bit" means a lot.  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.   

March 22, 2022: hold at 4.8mg and shift to Imipramine taper

Aug. 5, 2022: shift to Valium taper.  

Current dose as of Aug. 5, 2022: 4.3mg

Taper is 77% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Aug. 5: 9.5mg 

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5 and shift to Valium taper

Taper is 87% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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7 hours ago, Gridley said:

Onmyway, 3mg is high for those of us in WD.  We recommend starting out with around 0.25mg or 0.5 mg.  3mg can have a paradoxical (stimulating effect).  Something I've been doing that is helping a bit with sleep is taking my .5mg melatonin when I go to bed, and then taking 100mg magnesium glycinate when I wake up (usually around 3am) and then another 100mg magnesium around dawn.  We're all different, but it does help a bit, and sometimes "a bit" means a lot.  

 

My understanding is that the 3mg dose would be released gradually over a period of time, so it wouldn't be the same as taking 3mg immediate release.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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@Songbird, yes, that is what I assumed too. I took it and did not have adverse reactions. However, I don't see on the tablet that it is saying not to break etc. as it usually says on extended release tablets. So initially I started at half a tablet. I did look for lower mg extended release but couldn't find any. During a window I was able to sleep longer and it made a huge difference. Now back in a wave and missing that!

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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Holy Crap, wait a second here...

 

I've been taking 6mg a night?! I've been having weird dreams, feeling groggy the next day, and have lots of day time anxiety... could it be related to taking such a high dosage? 

 

If I reduce my dosage tonight to say 1mg... I'll have to cut the pill, will by body have a hard time adjusting to the fact that I have been taking so much?

                Paxil from 2001-2006 30mg, quit CT

  • Feb 10/2017 - 5mg Paroxetine (Paxil)  -Feb 12/2017 - upped - 10mg April 1-7th/2017 - Tapered off 
  • took an Ativan once while trying to get on these things
  • July 6th/2017  - Reinstated 5mg - Paroxetine (Paxil)
  • took another Ativan while trying to get back on these things 
  • July 9th/2017 - Upped - 10mg
  • Jan 16/2018 - Jan 30th/2018 -  Taper - 10mg/5days 5mg/5days 2.5mg/5days - stop
  • March 12/2018 - Reinstated - 10mg Citalopram (Celexa)
  • likely took an Ativan here too
  • Oct 23rd/2018 - Switched - Paroxetine (Paxil) 5mg 
  • Nov 9th/2018 - Upped - 10mg
  • Jan 11/2019 - switched -  5mg Escitalopram (Lexapro)
  • Feb 18/2019 - Upped - 10mg Escitalopram 
  • March 27/2019 reduced - 5mg 
  • April 18/2019 reduced - 2.5mg
  • April 27/2019 stopped
  • I took an Ativan Monday April 24th 2020

 

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I don't think you need to taper melatonin. Just try 1 mg and see. The grogginess could be from melatonin for sure. Sometimes I take extra in the middle of the night and it has that effect in the morning. Re: anxiety not sure. 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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If you take too much melatonin, it can have a paradoxical effect -- keeping you awake -- or cause an uncomfortable pressured feeling or other reaction, or cause grogginess the next day.

 

This is a caution repeated, like, 30 times in this topic. Read it from the beginning.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, all; I'm BRAND new here (see: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21026-northstar-postpartum-year-hell-~20-meds-on-and-off-brain-feels-like-a-limp-rag/). I just read the entire thread. Though I might have missed some things, there doesn't appear to be advice on the slow-release dosage. Bottomline re: my question: Is it okay to take a higher dose of melatonin if it's extended / slow release - or no?

 

I was taking 10mg slow-release melatonin (+10mg B6 combo pill) at night for a couple/few months and recently reduced to the 5mg version (still slow-release with B6). I recently went off Seroquel 5 weeks ago, had a window of okay sleep (with the 10mg), then hit a wave of really poor sleep. In the last 2 weeks, after the poor sleep started, I've moved to the 5mg slow release and sleep remains variable - but I'm usually waking throughout the night, and in the early morning in a panic. So...

- Do the rules of 1mg or less apply to slow-release melatonin to the point where I should make a change?

- Anyone seen any benefit for slow release vs instant?

 

Thanks!

Full Story: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21026-northstar-postpartum-year-hell-~20-meds-on-and-off-brain-feels-like-a-limp-rag/
1999ish-2005 (age 12-18): Zoloft, Lexapro, Wellbutrin (unsure of doseages)
2009-2017: Prozac (40mg) and Xanax PRN (took maybe 10x/yr); went off with no issues when pregnant
After birth of son in May 2018: waded through a difficult year of 20+ med trials of various combinations (while taking 1,000-2000 vitamin D/day, multivitamin, fish oil, 400-800 mcg folic acid, probiotics, and sometimes evening primrose oil throughout much of this time):

  • July 2018: 6mg Zoloft once (bad reaction)
  • July - Sept 2018: 0.5 - 1mg Ativan/day PRN (rarely took, went off); moved to just 25mg/night trazodone for sleep; went off after a few nights when I could sleep on own
  • Sept 2018: 1-7mg Prozac (bad reaction; couldn't make it passed 7mg) w/ 0.5 - 1mg Ativan/day PRN
  • Oct - Nov 2018: 0.25 - 0.75mg Klonopin/day
  • Nov 2018: 3-day Anafranil trial (25 mg); reaction --> hospital
  • Late-Nov - Early-Dec 2018: 100mg Seroquel + 0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day (eventually reduced to 0.25mg 2x/day)
  • Early-Dec 2018 - Early-Jan 2019: Worked up to 100mg Lamictal/day + 2.5mg Zyprexa/day + 0.5-1.5 mg Ativan/day
  • Early-Jan 2019: Bad reaction to above meds --> hospital for a week
  • Early-to-mid - Jan 2019: 5mg Paxil + 0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day + 0.25-1mg risperidone 1-2x/day + 50mg Benadryl (sleep)/night; bad reaction to risperidone after 1 week so taken off
  • Late-Jan 2019: 5mg Paxil + 0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day + 100-150mg Seroquel/night; mood worsened, back in hospital...
  • Late-Jan - Mid-Feb 2019 (hospital):
    • First week: 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 100 mg Seroquel at night, 300mg XR lithium 2x/day
    • Second week: 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, some amount of Depakote, tried PRNs of 12.5mg Seroquel
    • Third week: 1 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, 1200mg gabapentin (taken as 300mg twice during the day, and 600mg at night).
  • Mid-Feb - Early-March 2019: 0.75mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, 300mg Gabapentin 2x daytime and 600mg at night, brief re-trial of lithium – 150mg
  • Mid-March 2019: →0.25mg Klonopin during day + 0.5-0.75mg/night, 25mg Seroquel/night, 200mg Gabapentin 2x daytime + 300mg/night, brief re-trial of Depakote (don’t remember dosage)
  • Early-April 2019: Hyperthyroidism from thyroiditis (docs suspect lithium) diagnosis; added propranolol (20- 70mg/day)
  • April 2019 - June 2019:
    • Tapered from 25 to 0mg Seroquel
    • Tapered ABRUPTLY to 0mg Propranolol (due to hyperthyroid resolution and LOW BP)
    • Tapered ABRUPTLY from 400 to 0-200 gabapentin during day; take 300mg/night
    • 0.5mg Klonopin/night
  • July 2019 Day: 0.1mg Klonopin day; Night: 0.4mg Klonopin + 270mg gabapentin night + 5mg SR melatonin (+10mg B6)/night + 350mg magnesium
  • Sept 2019: Day: 0.1mg Klonopin day; Night: 0.4mg Klonopin + 250mg gabapentin night + 3mg melatonin/night + 350mg magnesium + 500mg quercetin 2x/day + 500-1,000mg vitamin C/day + 700-1050mg PEA/day + black nigella seed oil as needed (latter 4 for MCAS)
  • June 2020: 0.1 mg Klonopin day; 0.355 mg Klonopin night (tapered from March > June 0.384 > 0.37 > 0.355); 130mg Gabapentin night (tapered Fall-Winter 2019/2020 at 10% previous dose); 5-10 mg propranolol PRN for POTS; 5-15mL Children's Benadryl for MCAS PRN; 1.5 mg melatonin/night + 125 mg magnesium glycinate day + 350mg magnesium composite supp night + 500mg quercetin 2x/day + 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin C/day + 700mg PEA/day + 15mg zinc/day + Vitamin B6 at night PRN (helps w/ restlessness) + occasional 1/2 dose of multivitamin
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The scientific literature recommends 0.3 mg of  melatonin, so 10 and 5 seem really high even for normal people (i.e. those not in wd). Unfortunately, for reasons no one knows, most melatonin comes in 3 mg (10x higher). It is also not clear what slow release really means when it comes to supplements. My tablets don't show how that is achieved at all. If it doesn't say not to cut your pills, I'd cut to 1/4 and see. People have also noted on some of these threads that B vitamins and vit D can be activating so unless you have a deficiency that needs to be corrected maybe check and see if they contribute to the anxiety? 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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32 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

The scientific literature recommends 0.3 mg of  melatonin, so 10 and 5 seem really high even for normal people (i.e. those not in wd). Unfortunately, for reasons no one knows, most melatonin comes in 3 mg (10x higher). It is also not clear what slow release really means when it comes to supplements. My tablets don't show how that is achieved at all. If it doesn't say not to cut your pills, I'd cut to 1/4 and see. People have also noted on some of these threads that B vitamins and vit D can be activating so unless you have a deficiency that needs to be corrected maybe check and see if they contribute to the anxiety? 

Thanks. I've read that - that less is more, so it speak. And I'm also unsure if the timed release does anything (sounds like we all are). Being careful to take a change at a time, I'm looking for a melatonin without the B6 that also contains less melatonin. Although I've also read that B6 helps with akathisia, so who knows. Anyway - yes - plan is to find a smaller time released melatonin or cut this one down (it says there's an instant release outer-layer and a time-released center, so cutting it wouldn't be an issue?).

Full Story: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21026-northstar-postpartum-year-hell-~20-meds-on-and-off-brain-feels-like-a-limp-rag/
1999ish-2005 (age 12-18): Zoloft, Lexapro, Wellbutrin (unsure of doseages)
2009-2017: Prozac (40mg) and Xanax PRN (took maybe 10x/yr); went off with no issues when pregnant
After birth of son in May 2018: waded through a difficult year of 20+ med trials of various combinations (while taking 1,000-2000 vitamin D/day, multivitamin, fish oil, 400-800 mcg folic acid, probiotics, and sometimes evening primrose oil throughout much of this time):

  • July 2018: 6mg Zoloft once (bad reaction)
  • July - Sept 2018: 0.5 - 1mg Ativan/day PRN (rarely took, went off); moved to just 25mg/night trazodone for sleep; went off after a few nights when I could sleep on own
  • Sept 2018: 1-7mg Prozac (bad reaction; couldn't make it passed 7mg) w/ 0.5 - 1mg Ativan/day PRN
  • Oct - Nov 2018: 0.25 - 0.75mg Klonopin/day
  • Nov 2018: 3-day Anafranil trial (25 mg); reaction --> hospital
  • Late-Nov - Early-Dec 2018: 100mg Seroquel + 0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day (eventually reduced to 0.25mg 2x/day)
  • Early-Dec 2018 - Early-Jan 2019: Worked up to 100mg Lamictal/day + 2.5mg Zyprexa/day + 0.5-1.5 mg Ativan/day
  • Early-Jan 2019: Bad reaction to above meds --> hospital for a week
  • Early-to-mid - Jan 2019: 5mg Paxil + 0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day + 0.25-1mg risperidone 1-2x/day + 50mg Benadryl (sleep)/night; bad reaction to risperidone after 1 week so taken off
  • Late-Jan 2019: 5mg Paxil + 0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day + 100-150mg Seroquel/night; mood worsened, back in hospital...
  • Late-Jan - Mid-Feb 2019 (hospital):
    • First week: 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 100 mg Seroquel at night, 300mg XR lithium 2x/day
    • Second week: 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, some amount of Depakote, tried PRNs of 12.5mg Seroquel
    • Third week: 1 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, 1200mg gabapentin (taken as 300mg twice during the day, and 600mg at night).
  • Mid-Feb - Early-March 2019: 0.75mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, 300mg Gabapentin 2x daytime and 600mg at night, brief re-trial of lithium – 150mg
  • Mid-March 2019: →0.25mg Klonopin during day + 0.5-0.75mg/night, 25mg Seroquel/night, 200mg Gabapentin 2x daytime + 300mg/night, brief re-trial of Depakote (don’t remember dosage)
  • Early-April 2019: Hyperthyroidism from thyroiditis (docs suspect lithium) diagnosis; added propranolol (20- 70mg/day)
  • April 2019 - June 2019:
    • Tapered from 25 to 0mg Seroquel
    • Tapered ABRUPTLY to 0mg Propranolol (due to hyperthyroid resolution and LOW BP)
    • Tapered ABRUPTLY from 400 to 0-200 gabapentin during day; take 300mg/night
    • 0.5mg Klonopin/night
  • July 2019 Day: 0.1mg Klonopin day; Night: 0.4mg Klonopin + 270mg gabapentin night + 5mg SR melatonin (+10mg B6)/night + 350mg magnesium
  • Sept 2019: Day: 0.1mg Klonopin day; Night: 0.4mg Klonopin + 250mg gabapentin night + 3mg melatonin/night + 350mg magnesium + 500mg quercetin 2x/day + 500-1,000mg vitamin C/day + 700-1050mg PEA/day + black nigella seed oil as needed (latter 4 for MCAS)
  • June 2020: 0.1 mg Klonopin day; 0.355 mg Klonopin night (tapered from March > June 0.384 > 0.37 > 0.355); 130mg Gabapentin night (tapered Fall-Winter 2019/2020 at 10% previous dose); 5-10 mg propranolol PRN for POTS; 5-15mL Children's Benadryl for MCAS PRN; 1.5 mg melatonin/night + 125 mg magnesium glycinate day + 350mg magnesium composite supp night + 500mg quercetin 2x/day + 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin C/day + 700mg PEA/day + 15mg zinc/day + Vitamin B6 at night PRN (helps w/ restlessness) + occasional 1/2 dose of multivitamin
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1 hour ago, NorthStar said:

Thanks. I've read that - that less is more, so it speak. And I'm also unsure if the timed release does anything (sounds like we all are). Being careful to take a change at a time, I'm looking for a melatonin without the B6 that also contains less melatonin. Although I've also read that B6 helps with akathisia, so who knows. Anyway - yes - plan is to find a smaller time released melatonin or cut this one down (it says there's an instant release outer-layer and a time-released center, so cutting it wouldn't be an issue?).

It might be an issue then if the outer layer is different. I guess the outer layer would dissolve first and then the middle would dissolve later. It might be worth calling the company to check. L-theanine helped with anxiety/restlessness for me but caused nausea.  

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Is 3mg's of melatonin considered too much? Cause on Dr. Oz's website it said that 3mg's is more than your body naturally produces. But on other sites it says 3mg's is fine to take. So should I just stick to taking 1mg of melatonin? 

 

Cause I accidentally took 3mg's last night and it worked really well

Drugs I have been on- Vyvanse 30mg, Adderal, citalopram 30mg, Zoloft 20mg, rexulti 10mg,Wellbutrin, Lexapro 20mg, buspar, Prozac 20mg, Trazodone 50mg, Ritalin 20mg.

some of them I can't remember doses for. 

 

was on on Zoloft, Ritalin, and adderal between the ages of 11-13. Then I was on Celexa and Vyvanse, between the ages of 13-21. Don't remember exact dates. 

 

Then when I went off the celexa and Vyvanse abruptly and went on all of the other medications. Between the ages of 21 and 22. 

 I saw psychiatrist for about 3 months and was put on most of them on and off. I think it was the other SSRI's besides celexa and Zoloft , buspar, Wellbutrin, and rexulti. 

 

 Then I went inpatient a few times after that where it was diagnosed as a recurrence of depression and went on and off medications like celexa, Trazodone, and most recently about 3-4 weeks ago EMSam. I have been completely off medication since than.

supplements- magnesium 250mg, and 2 omega 3's. 

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Also is melatonin something you have to taper before you stop taking it? 

Drugs I have been on- Vyvanse 30mg, Adderal, citalopram 30mg, Zoloft 20mg, rexulti 10mg,Wellbutrin, Lexapro 20mg, buspar, Prozac 20mg, Trazodone 50mg, Ritalin 20mg.

some of them I can't remember doses for. 

 

was on on Zoloft, Ritalin, and adderal between the ages of 11-13. Then I was on Celexa and Vyvanse, between the ages of 13-21. Don't remember exact dates. 

 

Then when I went off the celexa and Vyvanse abruptly and went on all of the other medications. Between the ages of 21 and 22. 

 I saw psychiatrist for about 3 months and was put on most of them on and off. I think it was the other SSRI's besides celexa and Zoloft , buspar, Wellbutrin, and rexulti. 

 

 Then I went inpatient a few times after that where it was diagnosed as a recurrence of depression and went on and off medications like celexa, Trazodone, and most recently about 3-4 weeks ago EMSam. I have been completely off medication since than.

supplements- magnesium 250mg, and 2 omega 3's. 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Please read Post #1 of this topic for answers to your questions.

 

Something to remember is that when tapering/experiencing withdrawal, our nervous systems may have become sensitized, so when trying anything new it is better to start with smaller amounts than recommended on the label (or elsewhere) to see how it affects you. 

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
10 hours ago, Mikegs96 said:

Is 3mg's of melatonin considered too much? Cause on Dr. Oz's website it said that 3mg's is more than your body naturally produces. But on other sites it says 3mg's is fine to take. So should I just stick to taking 1mg of melatonin? 

 

Cause I accidentally took 3mg's last night and it worked really well

 

I would take the minimum effective dose.  So if 1mg is working well I would stick to that.  If 1mg is not working well, try small increases (e.g. go up to 1.5mg) until you find the lowest dose that works well.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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  • 2 months later...

Meletonin gets me to sleep, but the real problem is waking up at 3am and not being able to get back to sleep. 

10 years on various anti-depressants

5 years Effexor xr

tappered of 150mg in 6 months

nothing for two weeks

Reinstated 15 beads for 50 days

Tappered off then clean 2-3months

gradually went back up to 13 mg 3 years

bridged fluoxetine 10mg

2 week tapper

1 year clean

reinstated 5ml dispersed fluroxatine for 6months

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

For some reason melatonin helped me a ton with digestive issues I was having like heartburn/bloating. I saw these studies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2821302/ 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18616070

 

and decided to try it myself and it was the only thing that worked (other than PPIs, which I didn't want to take). 6mg is a big dose but it's still preferable in my opinion to PPIs and I've only had benefits from it, which is unusual for me because I'm very sensitive to most supplements

2001-2011 Zoloft up to 150mg

2011-2013 celexa up to 40mg

2013-2014-begin reducing celexa to 20mg 

2014-2016-on and off celexa up to 30mg

2017- Zoloft up to 150mg

may 2018-cold turkey Zoloft

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  • 2 months later...

Thank you for this helpful thread. Is it ok to use melatonin if I am on mirtazapine? I am able to get to sleep atm but I wake up after an hr and can’t go back to sleep again. 

I can’t remember exact dates but:

 

I CT’d 20mg fluoxitine in Aug 2019. I thought to myself well I might as well come off mirtzapine. 10 years on this drug.

 

I CT’d 15mg Mirtzapine in Sept 2019. 2 years on this drug.

 

Insomnia started in Oct 2019 but I took no notice of it. I panicked in Dec 2019 as it became worse and of course never left. Hoping I I would get my

sleep back I reinstated mirtzapine hoping may sleep would come back in Dec 2019  at 7.5mg for a few days then 15mg for a few days then

stabilised at 7.5mg when I found SA. 

 

Since then I have experienced bloating which I have never had before, and a ectopic heart beat. Im exhausted and can't even think, speak or retain what people are saying to me anymore. I used to speak so intellectually and now I can't even get words out. 

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Yes it is

-JAN 18' - aug 18’ -22.5mg temazapam + 7.5-15mg remeron  for insomnia. —Aug 18’ temazapam switched to ambien 10mg

-AUG 18’ - April/May 19’ Taper off remeron 

-Mid july 19’ - one week of  200mg Gabapentin c/t  —-mid July 19”-  3 weeks of 50mg trazadone fast tapered 

-July 19’- began random use of .5 Xanax rarely to get rest 

- Mid Aug 19’ - one day of viibryd, 7 days of cymbalta 30mg, 3 days of seroquel 25-50mg

-Aug- 1 wk of Klonopin .5-.75 fast taper 

-Sep 19’ tried trazadone 50 again (still on ambien 10mg)  some time in sep 19’ was c/t off 10mg ambien because was thought to have become ineffective

-oct 7 c/t trazadone and restarted 7.5 remeron holding since 

12/3/19  at 7.5 after a 2 day attempt compounded 7mg. Jan 2020  dry taper from 7.5 |Oct 1 at 6.4 high disruption to sleep began |oct 20 Updosed to 6.6 |oct 26 updosed to 6.8 holding. Jan 26 updosed to 7.5 holding till stable.

supplements 400mg magnesium glycinate nightly

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1 hour ago, DD44 said:

Yes it is

Thank you. As I said I can fall asleep but will it help me stay asleep? I’m waking up after an hr and haven’t slept more than that everyday for the last week. Before that I would get 3-4hrs. This is too much for me to handle and I just want to sleep again 

I can’t remember exact dates but:

 

I CT’d 20mg fluoxitine in Aug 2019. I thought to myself well I might as well come off mirtzapine. 10 years on this drug.

 

I CT’d 15mg Mirtzapine in Sept 2019. 2 years on this drug.

 

Insomnia started in Oct 2019 but I took no notice of it. I panicked in Dec 2019 as it became worse and of course never left. Hoping I I would get my

sleep back I reinstated mirtzapine hoping may sleep would come back in Dec 2019  at 7.5mg for a few days then 15mg for a few days then

stabilised at 7.5mg when I found SA. 

 

Since then I have experienced bloating which I have never had before, and a ectopic heart beat. Im exhausted and can't even think, speak or retain what people are saying to me anymore. I used to speak so intellectually and now I can't even get words out. 

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I don’t know your circumstances 

but I would reach out to moderators to get advice 

-JAN 18' - aug 18’ -22.5mg temazapam + 7.5-15mg remeron  for insomnia. —Aug 18’ temazapam switched to ambien 10mg

-AUG 18’ - April/May 19’ Taper off remeron 

-Mid july 19’ - one week of  200mg Gabapentin c/t  —-mid July 19”-  3 weeks of 50mg trazadone fast tapered 

-July 19’- began random use of .5 Xanax rarely to get rest 

- Mid Aug 19’ - one day of viibryd, 7 days of cymbalta 30mg, 3 days of seroquel 25-50mg

-Aug- 1 wk of Klonopin .5-.75 fast taper 

-Sep 19’ tried trazadone 50 again (still on ambien 10mg)  some time in sep 19’ was c/t off 10mg ambien because was thought to have become ineffective

-oct 7 c/t trazadone and restarted 7.5 remeron holding since 

12/3/19  at 7.5 after a 2 day attempt compounded 7mg. Jan 2020  dry taper from 7.5 |Oct 1 at 6.4 high disruption to sleep began |oct 20 Updosed to 6.6 |oct 26 updosed to 6.8 holding. Jan 26 updosed to 7.5 holding till stable.

supplements 400mg magnesium glycinate nightly

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  • Moderator
On 12/29/2019 at 5:00 PM, RM123 said:

Thank you. As I said I can fall asleep but will it help me stay asleep? I’m waking up after an hr and haven’t slept more than that everyday for the last week. Before that I would get 3-4hrs. This is too much for me to handle and I just want to sleep again 

Hi RM usually melatonin helps you fall asleep but not stay asleep. We are not sure about the extended release versions. The waking up is the real problem usually.

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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10 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi RM usually melatonin helps you fall asleep but not stay asleep. We are not sure about the extended release versions. The waking up is the real problem usually.

Thank you for clarifying this. I didn’t sleep last night and I’ve barely slept for the last 3 months. I feel like giving up. This is torture. 

I can’t remember exact dates but:

 

I CT’d 20mg fluoxitine in Aug 2019. I thought to myself well I might as well come off mirtzapine. 10 years on this drug.

 

I CT’d 15mg Mirtzapine in Sept 2019. 2 years on this drug.

 

Insomnia started in Oct 2019 but I took no notice of it. I panicked in Dec 2019 as it became worse and of course never left. Hoping I I would get my

sleep back I reinstated mirtzapine hoping may sleep would come back in Dec 2019  at 7.5mg for a few days then 15mg for a few days then

stabilised at 7.5mg when I found SA. 

 

Since then I have experienced bloating which I have never had before, and a ectopic heart beat. Im exhausted and can't even think, speak or retain what people are saying to me anymore. I used to speak so intellectually and now I can't even get words out. 

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19 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi RM usually melatonin helps you fall asleep but not stay asleep. We are not sure about the extended release versions. The waking up is the real problem usually.

I went to see the Dr today and they would not prescribe me melatonin as their practice does not justify prescribing any sleeping aids. I just want to sleep again without waking up. I feel like throwing in the towel. 

I can’t remember exact dates but:

 

I CT’d 20mg fluoxitine in Aug 2019. I thought to myself well I might as well come off mirtzapine. 10 years on this drug.

 

I CT’d 15mg Mirtzapine in Sept 2019. 2 years on this drug.

 

Insomnia started in Oct 2019 but I took no notice of it. I panicked in Dec 2019 as it became worse and of course never left. Hoping I I would get my

sleep back I reinstated mirtzapine hoping may sleep would come back in Dec 2019  at 7.5mg for a few days then 15mg for a few days then

stabilised at 7.5mg when I found SA. 

 

Since then I have experienced bloating which I have never had before, and a ectopic heart beat. Im exhausted and can't even think, speak or retain what people are saying to me anymore. I used to speak so intellectually and now I can't even get words out. 

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  • Moderator
On 12/31/2019 at 5:59 PM, RM123 said:

I went to see the Dr today and they would not prescribe me melatonin as their practice does not justify prescribing any sleeping aids. I just want to sleep again without waking up. I feel like throwing in the towel. 

I am so sorry to hear that you are in the thick of it, RM! :(

Insomnia is absolutely awful. I don't know why UK doctors are so reluctant to prescribe it. I was able to get clonazepam so easily but not melatonin. I got mine from the US eventually. If you know anyone who is going abroad (in Spain it's also without prescription but expensive) you may ask them. I also see that online it may be possible to get it but never tried it. Found this: https://uk.iherb.com/pr/Natrol-Melatonin-Maximum-Strength-Citrus-Flavor-10-mg-100-Tablets/69078?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAiAo7HwBRBKEiwAvC_Q8UPzSRjVbpnvAEivhlC4hp81ehUfoX6KKN_dR4bR06TsSRmMdFwzGRoCrTwQAvD_BwE

 

The one thing that helped me the most with the insomnia was to not worry about not sleeping. I was driving myself crazy worried that I would end up in a psychosis. When I decided I was going to be ok even with very little sleep, things got better. I didn't sleep much in the beginning at all 2-3 hrs most nights, waking up multiple times.

Then in months 2-3 managed about 4-5 hrs on a good night. Then got better in windows up to 6 hrs/night and sometimes much longer but bad again during waves down to 3-5. In the last 35 hrs I've slept 2hrs and am wide awake. Not worrying helps but if you have to go to work the next day it's not easy. I was practically home bound the first few months.

 

Tips that helped from the forums here:

1) complete darkness (foil your windows if need be). I have cardboard that I can remove with Velcro, then extra curtains on top. Or eye mask. Or both.

2) ear plugs (if necessary)

3) no blue light on computer or phone (there are apps for that - my favorite is Blue light filter by Leap Fitness Group, setting: color temperature 500 K)

4) Sleep hypnosis worked wonders at times  (Sleep Cove on Spotify was what worked for me - also on YouTube)

5) L-theanine worked a bit (I think) but made me nauseous, same with magnesium (stomach issues with Mg citrate but ok with Mg glycinate)

6) Absolutely no caffeine and only rarely chocolate

7) walking during the day

😎distracting myself by opening a window or watching TV or playing a game when waking up with panic (multiple times a night, still every night 10 months out)

9) a warm shower before bed, cool room

10) I do think the slow release melatonin keeps me sleeping longer but not more than 5-6 hrs, it definitely helps me to fall asleep quickly though

 

Things that work for others but didn't for me:

1) white noise or music in the background

2) a more disciplined/rigid sleep schedule (I sleep when I can and don't feel guilty about it any more but others find going to bed at the same time at nightfall and getting up early morning helps)

 

Things that seem to work for others but I haven't tried:

 

1) Epsom salt baths - either whole body or just feet

 

I can't think of anything else but know that this does get better. And trust that your body will survive this and heal from it even if slowly.

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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@Onmyway thanks for the reply. It is absolutely horrible. I bought Montmorency cherry capsules today and will give that ago but not sure when to take it and how much tho. I’m also taking mag gly. Do you take fast acting melatonin as well?  Not sure where to purchase outside the UK.  
 

My sleeping hasn’t got any better. Been only sleeping 1-2hr night for last two weeks and some days with no sleep at all. I have to work as well and I really don’t know how I do it everyday with this much sleep. I even go to the gym after work. I was sleeping 4hrs before I reinstated Mirtzapine because I panicked. Thinking I should of just stayed cold turkey. 
 

I’m doing everything in terms of sleep hygiene as well. Can’t find a good app for blue light filter on iPhone. Supposedly research says the built in on does not work. Really appreciate you taking the time out to message. 
 

I’m just extremely fed up and want it to end. On top of this I’ve developed eyes bags and look horrible. This makes things worse. I look like I’m so tired and ill :( I go back to work soon as I took holiday and everyone will notice and wonder what the hell happened to me. 

I can’t remember exact dates but:

 

I CT’d 20mg fluoxitine in Aug 2019. I thought to myself well I might as well come off mirtzapine. 10 years on this drug.

 

I CT’d 15mg Mirtzapine in Sept 2019. 2 years on this drug.

 

Insomnia started in Oct 2019 but I took no notice of it. I panicked in Dec 2019 as it became worse and of course never left. Hoping I I would get my

sleep back I reinstated mirtzapine hoping may sleep would come back in Dec 2019  at 7.5mg for a few days then 15mg for a few days then

stabilised at 7.5mg when I found SA. 

 

Since then I have experienced bloating which I have never had before, and a ectopic heart beat. Im exhausted and can't even think, speak or retain what people are saying to me anymore. I used to speak so intellectually and now I can't even get words out. 

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i , i was wondering for sleep problem, there is 

melatonin,

but since melatonin come from serotonin that comes from tryptophan (from food).

have some of you tried tryptophan supplement? 

(i am french)

1998 prazépam, citalopram /1999 paroxetine prazepam /2000 paroxétine /2001venafaxine, alprazolam, clomipramine * 2002 (dont remember)/2003 clomipramine, alprazolam /2004 clomipramine /2005 alprazolam /2006(dont remember) * 2007citalopram, alprazolam, prazépam, venlafaxine /2008(dont remember) /2009 venlafaxine /2010 venlafaxine *All precedent withdrawal were very fast. I tried many times to stop but didn't know what happened. *2011 mirtazapine (22,5 mg) , norset , risperdal (cold turkey for risperdal and norset, analysis by doctor say that my body does not support and i was in danger) /2012 mirtazapine / 2013 mirtazapine  *october 2014 mirtazapine (15mg) - putting down slowly.   *when i was good for one month i  down 1ml. (1ml of 100ml of water in which there was 1 pill of 15mg of mirtazapine. At the end i remove 1ml of 50ml of water but with 0,5 pill it does the same concentration.) (i down more like "how i feel, because at the beginning i had a calendar tapping 10% every 15 days and i was really bad, so i decided to see one month and after if i was trust in my body, i remove 10% of the dose at the beginning; and at the end i remove 1ml (when the 10% was lower than 1ml). It was more how i feel. (it is just the last 1 ml that i remove rapidly because i think i was attached mentally and i need to break. and 1ml of 50ml of 15/2mg is just 1ml correspond to 0.15mg. ).  -juillet 2017 stop all. 

nov 2017 tetany and gastritis. I found "euphytose", "spasmine", "phyto-stress" from Govital(the more efficient if crisis because more concentrated)  efficient. If very bad i take valerian extract 1000mg (stop crisis). 

january 2022: I survive. Still having no hunger sensation.

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On 7/12/2019 at 11:26 PM, Onmyway said:

The scientific literature recommends 0.3 mg of  melatonin, so 10 and 5 seem really high even for normal people (i.e. those not in wd). Unfortunately, for reasons no one knows, most melatonin comes in 3 mg (10x higher). It is also not clear what slow release really means when it comes to supplements. My tablets don't show how that is achieved at all. If it doesn't say not to cut your pills, I'd cut to 1/4 and see. People have also noted on some of these threads that B vitamins and vit D can be activating so unless you have a deficiency that needs to be corrected maybe check and see if they contribute to the anxiety? 

thanks.

it seems literrature say if more 0,3mg is taken, it is like if you take nothing. 

https://www.lanutrition.fr/bien-etre/le-sommeil/la-melatonine-est-elle-efficace-contre-linsomnie-

"Richard Wurtman (MIT, Cambridge, Massachusetts), one of the world's specialists in melatonin, has shown in his publications that when administered to people over 50, this hormone is only effective if the dose ingested before night does not not exceed 0.3 mg. Indeed, he explains that in the brain if the melatonin receptors are exposed to an excess of hormone, they stop working. In your study, the dose administered is 2 mg. "

 

i think it need extanded liberation to do not exceed 0,3mg

in the article it speak about circadin brand which is a 2mg pill, but extanded liberation"

 

http://news.mit.edu/1993/melatonin-1117

 peak melatonin levels following the 0.1mg and 0.3mg treatments were comparable to the normal night levels of the hormone. Levels following the 1.0 and 10 mg treatments were greater than normal night levels.

 

http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017

According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50,

The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. 

"Our study has shown that less is more as far as melatonin is concerned

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-dark-side-of-melatoni_b_8855998

According to Dr. Wurtman, melatonin supplements may work at first, but soon “you’ll stop responding because you desensitize the brain. And as a consequence, not only won’t you respond to the stuff you take…you won’t respond to the stuff you make, so it can actually promote insomnia after a period of time.”

Mauricio Farez, an Argentinian sleep researcher, has similar reservations. “I have some issues, in terms of the pharmacology, and…it’s really hard to have stable levels of the drug in our blood.”

Grandner agrees. “Taking melatonin for an extended period of time your body may acclimate and re-adjust and produce less over time which will work against you.”

 

https://touchneurology.com/low-doses-of-melatonin-promote-sleep-onset-and-maintenance-in-older-people-an-update/

A very small dose (0.3 mg) of melatonin is usually sufficient to restore nighttime plasma melatonin levels to those characteristic of young people, 

(i am french)

1998 prazépam, citalopram /1999 paroxetine prazepam /2000 paroxétine /2001venafaxine, alprazolam, clomipramine * 2002 (dont remember)/2003 clomipramine, alprazolam /2004 clomipramine /2005 alprazolam /2006(dont remember) * 2007citalopram, alprazolam, prazépam, venlafaxine /2008(dont remember) /2009 venlafaxine /2010 venlafaxine *All precedent withdrawal were very fast. I tried many times to stop but didn't know what happened. *2011 mirtazapine (22,5 mg) , norset , risperdal (cold turkey for risperdal and norset, analysis by doctor say that my body does not support and i was in danger) /2012 mirtazapine / 2013 mirtazapine  *october 2014 mirtazapine (15mg) - putting down slowly.   *when i was good for one month i  down 1ml. (1ml of 100ml of water in which there was 1 pill of 15mg of mirtazapine. At the end i remove 1ml of 50ml of water but with 0,5 pill it does the same concentration.) (i down more like "how i feel, because at the beginning i had a calendar tapping 10% every 15 days and i was really bad, so i decided to see one month and after if i was trust in my body, i remove 10% of the dose at the beginning; and at the end i remove 1ml (when the 10% was lower than 1ml). It was more how i feel. (it is just the last 1 ml that i remove rapidly because i think i was attached mentally and i need to break. and 1ml of 50ml of 15/2mg is just 1ml correspond to 0.15mg. ).  -juillet 2017 stop all. 

nov 2017 tetany and gastritis. I found "euphytose", "spasmine", "phyto-stress" from Govital(the more efficient if crisis because more concentrated)  efficient. If very bad i take valerian extract 1000mg (stop crisis). 

january 2022: I survive. Still having no hunger sensation.

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7 hours ago, emilie said:

thanks.

it seems literrature say if more 0,3mg is taken, it is like if you take nothing. 

https://www.lanutrition.fr/bien-etre/le-sommeil/la-melatonine-est-elle-efficace-contre-linsomnie-

"Richard Wurtman (MIT, Cambridge, Massachusetts), one of the world's specialists in melatonin, has shown in his publications that when administered to people over 50, this hormone is only effective if the dose ingested before night does not not exceed 0.3 mg. Indeed, he explains that in the brain if the melatonin receptors are exposed to an excess of hormone, they stop working. In your study, the dose administered is 2 mg. "

 

i think it need extanded liberation to do not exceed 0,3mg

in the article it speak about circadin brand which is a 2mg pill, but extanded liberation"

 

http://news.mit.edu/1993/melatonin-1117

 peak melatonin levels following the 0.1mg and 0.3mg treatments were comparable to the normal night levels of the hormone. Levels following the 1.0 and 10 mg treatments were greater than normal night levels.

 

http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017

According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50,

The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. 

"Our study has shown that less is more as far as melatonin is concerned

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-dark-side-of-melatoni_b_8855998

According to Dr. Wurtman, melatonin supplements may work at first, but soon “you’ll stop responding because you desensitize the brain. And as a consequence, not only won’t you respond to the stuff you take…you won’t respond to the stuff you make, so it can actually promote insomnia after a period of time.”

Mauricio Farez, an Argentinian sleep researcher, has similar reservations. “I have some issues, in terms of the pharmacology, and…it’s really hard to have stable levels of the drug in our blood.”

Grandner agrees. “Taking melatonin for an extended period of time your body may acclimate and re-adjust and produce less over time which will work against you.”

 

https://touchneurology.com/low-doses-of-melatonin-promote-sleep-onset-and-maintenance-in-older-people-an-update/

A very small dose (0.3 mg) of melatonin is usually sufficient to restore nighttime plasma melatonin levels to those characteristic of young people, 

 

An anecdote about Wurtman, he is the one who repurposed fluoxetine to treat PMDD, patented it and sold it under the name Serafem. Not that that impacts on his opinion on melatonin, just an interesting tidbit. 

 

I found the following article on melatonin on the interwebs. It seems well researched and has a lot of melatonin

information and some theories on how it works. Can't attest to the veracity of said information as I haven't fact checked it, though. 

https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/

 

This is, arguably more important as it shows how different brands of melatonin/strength fared in lab tests on purity. What's interesting here is that some brands have more melatonin than they advertise on the bottle and some have substantially less. I'm bookmarking labdoor from now on for useful infor on supplements. 

 

https://labdoor.com/rankings/melatonin

 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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15 hours ago, emilie said:

i , i was wondering for sleep problem, there is 

melatonin,

but since melatonin come from serotonin that comes from tryptophan (from food).

have some of you tried tryptophan supplement? 

I once saw a naturopath who gave me a good quality tryptophan supplement. I didn't use it for sleep but I remember it definitely relaxed me in a non drowsy sort of way. 

10 years on various anti-depressants

5 years Effexor xr

tappered of 150mg in 6 months

nothing for two weeks

Reinstated 15 beads for 50 days

Tappered off then clean 2-3months

gradually went back up to 13 mg 3 years

bridged fluoxetine 10mg

2 week tapper

1 year clean

reinstated 5ml dispersed fluroxatine for 6months

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

I was taking 3mg melatonin in the evenings for a while but then I thought it was making me feel worse.  So I asked my Dr whether melatonin could be increasing my serotonin levels and here is what he said.  FWIW... just to add to the discussion. 

 

"So, first serotonin is the PRECURSOR for melatonin and there isn't, to my knowledge, a reverse flow back to serotonin.  3 mg melatonin is considerably more than the pineal secretes. 
But, on the other hand, I'm not sure how well melatonin passes the blood-brain-barrier, so it's not clear how much melatonin gets through to the brain.  Also, I'm not sure what the concentration of pineal-generated melatonin turns out to be in the rest of the brain. 
 
However, data suggest that melatonin stimulates serotonin release:  
 
J Pineal Res, 17 (4), 170-6
Nov 1994

Effects of Single Doses and Daily Melatonin Treatments on Serotonin Metabolism in Rat Brain Regions

 
 

Abstract

The acute effects of two doses (0.5 and 1 mg/kg) of melatonin on the levels of tryptophan, serotonin, and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid in several rat brain regions were studied. Tryptophan content in the brain regions was unchanged by the treatments. Melatonin at a dosage of 0.5 mg/kg increased medial hypothalamic serotonin levels at 60 and 90 min after the injection. However, the dose of 1 mg/kg increased the levels of this amine or its metabolite in the preoptic area-anterior hypothalamus, medial and posterior hypothalamus, amygdala, and midbrain. These results suggest a specific regional sensitivity to melatonin as well as a dose-dependent response. The stimulatory melatonin effect on the serotoninergic system was also observed after a daily treatment with this hormone (0.5 mg/kg, twice daily during 10 days) in both intact or pinealectomized rats. In intact rats, melatonin treatment increased the levels of 5-hydroxyindole-3-acetic acid in the preoptic area-anterior hypothalamus and medial hypothalamus, while in pinealectomized rats melatonin increased the serotonin content in the medial hypothalamic region. The data support the idea that melatonin has a selective action on serotonin metabolism in regions that contain serotoninergic terminals, especially at medial hypothalamic level.

 

Generally, benefits from evening melatonin wane over a few days to a week of regular dosing.  Also generally, stopping has no significant adverse effect to the best of my knowledge."

1991 -> 2001 various SSRIs for depression (10 years)   

2001 -> 2017 celexa, lexapro for depression plus Abilify (6 years)

2017 - celexa causes increasing flu-like symptoms (body aches, fatigue, malaise, syncope)

2017 - bad Dr switches me to Pristiq, Luvox, Zoloft.  They all cause flu-like symptoms eventually.  Switch to desipramine (tricyclic)

2018 - switch to imipramine 75mg which eventually causes worsening flu-like symptoms. taper off Abilify

2018 - November - feel like I am really developing serotonin toxicity.  Decide I have to get off everything ASAP.  taper off imipramine, going from 75 mg to 2.5 mg over 2  months

2019 - Jan - bridge to Prozac. taper from 10 mg to 1 mg over 3 months.  Last dose end of March (alternating days)

2019 - March experience brain zaps but not too bad. They eventually go away in April/May

2019 - March - August - I developed leg/nerve pain which became increasingly debilitating over time. Saw a ton of doctors. No physical explanation. Drs rule out MS, fibro, neurological issues.  MRIs, xrays, chiro. 2019, September - Leg pain has worsened to where I can barely walk across the room.  Reinstate imipramine at 2 mg

2019 - October - Reduce imipramine gradually to 0.04 mg.  feel a bit better.  2019 - November  Start Trileptal 37 mg.  Start seeing improvement in mobility, pain decrease

2019 - December - feeling about 50% better.  Still experiencing w/d symptoms and/or side effects. Waking at 5 am each morning feeling shivery, nausea. Legs feel like they are plugged in to a socket.  Zaps, aches, tingles, stinging.  Still can't walk or drive.  Ears ringing, brain tingling, brain full of bees.

2020 - mid-January - setback, withdrawal/side effects getting worse.  Discontinue Trileptal.  2020 March reinstate Trileptal 20 mg, reduce to 10mg

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  • 2 months later...

@Altostrata, hi I was wondering about the melatonin. I started with 3/4 of a half the first day and went to sleep. But it nothing the second day. I went up to 3/4 of 1 last night and I had a terrible headache. I am going to go back down. Thoughts?

 

Also, what can you use if you can't use melatonin?

 

Can I use it for a few weeks to power through my insomnia and reset my sleep cycle? Like it's not harming anything because I have a headache?

 

Btw, I read everything on the sleep forum. Can insomnia eventually be fixed even if it's due to a drug harm?

 

Thx

LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31/20-4/6/20

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Please read this topic from the beginning. As little as 0.25mg might be effective. You may have to experiment to find the melatonin dosage that works for you.

 

Melatonin is most effective when used in a regular sleep schedule aligned with cycles of dark and light. Also see

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

 

Melatonin is not a sleeping pill, it will not compensate for a bad habit of staying up late playing video games, for example.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 months later...

@Altostrata  any thoughts on pineal gland stimulators?  I know someone who's integrative psychiatrist prescribed one for her, I assume to stimulate the production of melatonin. She was on it for a couple of months but then it started to not work any more. Sort of like when OTC melatonin poops out. Other than that, I don't know any thing about them. I'm always looking into things that might help sleep. But at the same time, I'm always leery because I have so many paradoxical reactions.

On Prozac since 2004, 10 mg 

Began to taper, 2016, first time cold turkey

unsuccessful, so soon after tried again

kept having to go back on medication due to withdrawals

tried to do it myself as couldn't find a dr to help me

Currently on taper #4 from 2016, having changed to Lexapro and starting November 2018 from 5 mg

As of April 2020 I am at 1/5th of a mg (.2 mg)

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1 hour ago, neverknew said:

but then it started to not work any more.

 

1 hour ago, neverknew said:

I'm always leery because I have so many paradoxical reactions.

 

I think you've answered the question yourself.

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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