PerAsperaAdAstra: getting off of Paxil properly

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Hi all!

 

I’m really happy to be on this platform to learn as much about tapering off of antidepressants as much as I can.

 

I have used Paxil/Seroxat for over 20 years and many of my attempts to get off them failed miserably.

My last attempt this year also failed, and got me in severe turmoil. Temporarily used Oxazepam and Diazepam to help me survive that period whilst Paxil started working again.

 

Little did I know benzodiazepines were such a difficult thing to get off of, so I tapered off it very slowly. Based on this ordeal I figured I’ve always been really stupid (understatement!) cold turkeying Paxil. That’s why I’m here to learn as much as possible so that I can wean off Paxil in the best possible way so I won’t make the same mistakes again I did in the past.

 

Hope to learn a lot here!

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by ChessieCat
unbolded

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, PerAsperaAdAstra.  Thanks for completing your drug signature.

 

How are you feeling now with your 30mg  reinstatement?  What was the reason you reinstated at 30mg instead of your previous 20mg?  

  

You will need to feel reasonably stable on your reinstatement before you start to taper.

 

Preparing to taper

 

At SA we recommend you taper at no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  Some members need to taper more slowly.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

The following link describes a method of micro tapering.  It was devised by Brassmonkey, one of our moderators, who successfully tapered off 40mg of Paxil.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

These links explain the importance of tapering slowly.

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

This link explains how to make nonstandard doses.

 

Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

To help you understand the symptoms you experienced when you CT'd Paxil, here is some information on withdrawal.  

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

 The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Hi Gridley!

 

Thanks for the welcoming words. I will definitely absorb all the information you gave me!

 

Currently I'm feeling fairly well on my 30mg reinstatement. It took a while for me becoming stable again, and tapering off of the Diazepam benzodiazepine was hellish. But it makes me appreciate feeling normal all the more now! Why 30 mg instead of 20? Based on the crisis situation at the time I consulted with my GP, and we came to that dosage somehow. Totally forgot what was the reasoning, and probably 20mg would have also helped.

 

But since I now know what an effect tapering off of benzodiazepines has on the CNS I have come to respect antidepressants. They also have to be properly weaned off of. So I will surely adhere to the 10% rate per month / 6 weeks from now on.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

I have digested all the information. Lots of useful information from people that have dabbled with the same things I have. 
I'm sure I'll be able to put it to good use once I will start tapering off of antidepressants.

 

Currently my GP and I have talked about waiting at least until April 2019 for me to become stable. From there I'll decide whether I'll start tapering or wanting to remain at 30 mgs a little longer.

 

If I will taper, I'm going to take it really slowly and see if I can make cuts happen in such a way that side effects are only present for some days and only marginally. If that necessitates making cuts of less than 10% I will definitely do that. No way will I put my body thru the stress of CT again.

[Gridley]

Sounds good.  I noticed you're taking a B-complex.  In withdrawal, it can be overstimulating.

 

Hypersensitive to B Vitamin or B-Complex  

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Thanks Gridley! I've noticed that same thing about B. At times when I seemed particularly anxious B would rev me up even more.

At this moment however it seems to not cause discomfort. Will use it for a bit longer to return to a sort of baseline since I've jumped Diazepam one week ago.

I will surely put B under scrutiny whilst actually tapering Paxil. Thanks for the link, I will have a look at it!

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

I have been off the Oxazepam/Diazepam for a month now and I'm starting to feel better. Week 1 and 2 (and to a lesser extent 3) were horrible, and now it is starting to subside. Happy about that!

 

My GP and I have decided to see in April whether we will continue tapering Paxil. That depends on whether I'm stable enough. But I have the feeling that from now on I have the opportunity to let my CNS stabilise. 

 

In any way I'm still reading a lot of the materials here. I will definitely use the Brassmonkey slide method. And probably I will incorporate extra weeks to stabilise if need be.

[Sottana]

Thanks for responding to my page 

 

i have faith in you and you have faith in me. Let’s rejoice in our shared feelings of rooting each other on.

 

To more healing! 

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

29 minutes ago, Adili13 said:

Thanks for responding to my page 

 

i have faith in you and you have faith in me. Let’s rejoice in our shared feelings of rooting each other on.

 

To more healing! 

 

No problem at all! Saw you where also using Paxil and I was curious how you were faring! And since you seemed to be in a rough patch I couldn't do anything else than trying to encourage you as best as possible. We're all in this boat together and it'd be awesome if both of us could end this process by writing a fantastic success story in the end!

 

I will definitely keep following your posts here in the future!

 

To our healing and success!

[Sottana]

We will. Belief is central to healing, I truly believe that. 

[Carmie]

Hi PAAA, 

 

Hos are you doing?💚

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

1 hour ago, Carmie said:

Hi PAAA, 

 

Hos are you doing?💚

 

Thank you for your kind message Carmie! ♥️

 

I'm doing well, much appreciated. Starting to stabilise after last year's Paxil CT and benzo withdrawal. 

Currently reading a lot of other user's topic to encourage people where I can. Also reading a lot of the general topics to make sure that I don't make any stupid mistakes again while tapering. Planning to use the Brassmonkey slide method when I feel ready. And from 20 mg of Paxil I will go really slow. (the graphics about SERT occupancy were really useful!)

 

How are you doing? Thank you for all your efforts here on this forum, together with your fellow moderators and admins. Love the work you guys put in!

[Carmie]

Hi PAAA, 

 

I’m so happy you’re doing well, I’m really glad that the reinstatement worked. Yay!

 

That’s nice that you’re encouraging others, I’m sure that they really appreciate it. This certainly is a hard journey, and unless someone has gone through it it’s hard to understand and comprehend.

 

Doing the Brassmonkey slide sounds like a brilliant idea. I think most of us have made mistakes in the past. We can’t change the past though, we can only learn from it. What we need to focus on is today and moving forward. No amount of worrying about what happened in the past changes anything. Onwards and upwards!😁

 

All the best with your tapering when you start again.💚

[Sebas]

Good evening #landgenoot in hetzelfde schuitje. Ik stuur je een link naar de betreffende procedure. Deelname is nog mogelijk cq wenselijk. Formulier invullen en kleine bijdrage (€295) betalen. Bij langdurig gebruik/ernstige afbouwklachten en zeker indien je voor een bepaalde leeftijd begonnen bent. 

https://www.letselverhalen.nl/stichting-seroxatclaim

 

Je hebt al veel info geabsorbeerd lees ik. Mocht je nog vragen hebben dan weet je me te vinden. Afbouwen van paroxetine/seroxat middels suspensie kan ik je aanbevelen. Neem de tijd, het gaat vele jaren duren om het goed te doen.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

On 3/21/2019 at 10:52 PM, Carmie said:

Hi PAAA, 

 

I’m so happy you’re doing well, I’m really glad that the reinstatement worked. Yay!

 

That’s nice that you’re encouraging others, I’m sure that they really appreciate it. This certainly is a hard journey, and unless someone has gone through it it’s hard to understand and comprehend.

 

Doing the Brassmonkey slide sounds like a brilliant idea. I think most of us have made mistakes in the past. We can’t change the past though, we can only learn from it. What we need to focus on is today and moving forward. No amount of worrying about what happened in the past changes anything. Onwards and upwards!😁

 

All the best with your tapering when you start again.💚

 

Thanks so much Carmie! It definitely is a hard journey and we both have the experience to share that it ain't a walk in the park. But the prize of getting through safe and sound is so rewarding. 

You have definitely been through a lot and it looks that the odds seemed stacked against you at multiple times in the past. Glad you're here now and able to tell your story to encourage others. I like your credo: onwards and upwards. :D.

 

And I'm ready for tapering. Got the Gemini scale for dry cutting. Made an Excel sheet with the proper calculations to get me from 30 MGAI to 20 MGAI or thereabouts. Let's do this!

♥️

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

On 3/21/2019 at 11:24 PM, Sebas said:

Good evening #landgenoot in hetzelfde schuitje. Ik stuur je een link naar de betreffende procedure. Deelname is nog mogelijk cq wenselijk. Formulier invullen en kleine bijdrage (€295) betalen. Bij langdurig gebruik/ernstige afbouwklachten en zeker indien je voor een bepaalde leeftijd begonnen bent. 

https://www.letselverhalen.nl/stichting-seroxatclaim

 

Je hebt al veel info geabsorbeerd lees ik. Mocht je nog vragen hebben dan weet je me te vinden. Afbouwen van paroxetine/seroxat middels suspensie kan ik je aanbevelen. Neem de tijd, het gaat vele jaren duren om het goed te doen.

 

Ha Sebas! Volgens mij hebben we allebei min of meer dezelfde tijd Seroxat (give or take) gebruikt. Tis best een pittige om af te bouwen hè? 🤣

 

Ik zal zeker bij je meelezen en vragen bij je droppen! Ik dacht altijd dat ik wel e.e.a. over antidepressiva en de werking van de hersenen wist maar hier heb ik absoluut weer dingen bijgeleerd. Had nooit kunnen bevroeden dat afbouwen zó langzaam zou moeten, en zeker bij lagere doses i.v.m. die zogenaamde SERT occupancy. 

Anyway, ik doe het zeker langzaam aan zoals je al aanbeval. Als het in jaren moet dan moet dat. Ik ga het ergens onder 20 MG met suspensie doen. Tot die tijd dry cutting.

 

Ben jij stabiel nu? (na je updose) Hoe gaat het met afbouwen? 

Ik zag in je signature staan dat je je afvraagt of je bij 5 ml **** stoppen met taperen. Voor wat het waard is: ik wil uiteindelijk onder de 1 uitkomen (net zoals bij de Diazepam) voordat ik jump. Desnoods op de lagere doses wat holds indien benodigd. 5 ml is toch nog best hoog?

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

En ik zal zeker kijken op de site van letselverhalen.nl of ik mij aan kan sluiten. 👍

[Carmie]

8 hours ago, PerAsperaAdAstra said:

 

Thanks so much Carmie! It definitely is a hard journey and we both have the experience to share that it ain't a walk in the park. But the prize of getting through safe and sound is so rewarding. 

You have definitely been through a lot and it looks that the odds seemed stacked against you at multiple times in the past. Glad you're here now and able to tell your story to encourage others. I like your credo: onwards and upwards. :D.

 

And I'm ready for tapering. Got the Gemini scale for dry cutting. Made an Excel sheet with the proper calculations to get me from 30 MGAI to 20 MGAI or thereabouts. Let's do this!

♥️

 

That’s great you got the Gemini scale PerAsperaAdAstra, 

 

Glad you’ve got your calculations ready too. Yes, let’s do this!😃💚

 

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

It's been a while since I've last posted. I've been reading on the SA site though.

 

I have become more stable for which I'm happy. The only thing bugging me is the fact that I am feeling nauseous from time to time and have this queasy feeling in my stomach. Somehow I have this feeling it might be due to the antidepressants (30 MG at the moment).

 

My intuition tells me it might be time to start tapering now. Slowly, really slowly. Since I have a scale already the only thing is getting a pill crusher and capsules for the powder. Got my taper schedule handy in Excel so I should be ready. :-).

[Cocopuffz17]

4 hours ago, PerAsperaAdAstra said:

It's been a while since I've last posted. I've been reading on the SA site though.

 

I have become more stable for which I'm happy. The only thing bugging me is the fact that I am feeling nauseous from time to time and have this queasy feeling in my stomach. Somehow I have this feeling it might be due to the antidepressants (30 MG at the moment).

 

My intuition tells me it might be time to start tapering now. Slowly, really slowly. Since I have a scale already the only thing is getting a pill crusher and capsules for the powder. Got my taper schedule handy in Excel so I should be ready. :-).

Sounds like you are all ready to go! I wish I would of knew of the slow tapering method. I followed my doctor and it was the toughest year of my life. But I am through it! Best of luck tapering! Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed!!

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

15 hours ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

Sounds like you are all ready to go! I wish I would of knew of the slow tapering method. I followed my doctor and it was the toughest year of my life. But I am through it! Best of luck tapering! Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed!!

 

Thanks for your encouraging words Cocopuffz17! Happy to see you made it to the other side, and managed to get off of this horrible Paroxetine. It's one of the more difficult beasts to slay, and it's awesome that you did it!

 

I fell for the too fast a taper mistake too many times as well. Would have indeed been great to have this information handy at that time. Gonna do it slow this time round, and especially below the 10mg since I oftentimes have the feeling people bump their head when they get that low.

[Sebas]

Goodluck. Here some advice from personal experience;

- if possible use fluid for accurate tapering

- no supplements or painkillers especially NSAID unless necessary only recommended is omega 3 fishoil (brain, sight) and magnesium (relax muscle and thoughts)

- reduce use of caffeine/alcohol etc. during tapering periods, use natural herb tea instead

- brush teeth well after use of fluid (cause of sugar additive)

- while using tapering strategy always listen well to your feelings (better slow than sorry)

- after (re)finding balance, stay tuned for 1 or 2 weeks before taking next step, don't rush things

- during stabilisation stay on the supplements to be well prepared for next tapering

- when in trouble stabilising, hang in untill you feel stable of sometimes a minor/tiny updose can do the job

- keep a personal diary

- consider personal coaching/therapy

- follow advice given by experienced users

- explain your situation to a couple of friends/family

- accept feeling sick or anxious as being withdrawl symptoms

- pay attention to things that contributie to wellbeing (personal hobby's), adjust goals (carreer, sports etc.) during tapering periods

 

Hope u can use some of these,

Bye Sebas

[Sebas]

OMG kan ook in Nederlands zie ik nu 😂🇳🇱

[Rhiannon]

3 hours ago, Sebas said:

Goodluck. Here some advice from personal experience;

- if possible use fluid for accurate tapering

- no supplements or painkillers especially NSAID unless necessary only recommended is omega 3 fishoil (brain, sight) and magnesium (relax muscle and thoughts)

- reduce use of caffeine/alcohol etc. during tapering periods, use natural herb tea instead

- brush teeth well after use of fluid (cause of sugar additive)

- while using tapering strategy always listen well to your feelings (better slow than sorry)

- after (re)finding balance, stay tuned for 1 or 2 weeks before taking next step, don't rush things

- during stabilisation stay on the supplements to be well prepared for next tapering

- when in trouble stabilising, hang in untill you feel stable of sometimes a minor/tiny updose can do the job

- keep a personal diary

- consider personal coaching/therapy

- follow advice given by experienced users

- explain your situation to a couple of friends/family

- accept feeling sick or anxious as being withdrawl symptoms

- pay attention to things that contributie to wellbeing (personal hobby's), adjust goals (carreer, sports etc.) during tapering periods

 

Hope u can use some of these,

Bye Sebas

All good advice, can attest!

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

5 hours ago, Sebas said:

OMG kan ook in Nederlands zie ik nu 😂🇳🇱

 

De tips zijn er niet minder bruikbaar om. Dankjewel! :-D.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

1 hour ago, Rhiannon said:

All good advice, can attest!

 

Really like the fact that people here have dabbled with the same stuff and have worked out best-practices as a result. 

And slaying the Valium beast like you are doing is not the least feat. 

[Rhiannon]

7 hours ago, PerAsperaAdAstra said:

 

Really like the fact that people here have dabbled with the same stuff and have worked out best-practices as a result. 

And slaying the Valium beast like you are doing is not the least feat. 

 Thank you, yes it's a beast. I go very slowly but even with the tiny cuts I get some insomnia every time. Fortunately it passes after a few days or a week at most.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

One week into the tapering and thus far I'm satisfied about the results. Some minor agitation, and blood sugar issues causing me to see "stains" in my eyesight in the afternoon. This latter thing I had in an extreme fashion when I CT'd (not being able to see because it totally garbled my vision).

Other than that all good, this Brassmonkey Slide Method might be golden!

 

Note to self: take it really really slowly, especially when my nervous system will gives me signs I've dropped below a certain threshold wherein every drop increases effects drastically.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Currently in the second slide. Tomorrow reducing the first 2,5%. Things are going pretty well. Some minor nuisances. Minor anxiety a few days after cutting. 

 

Nonetheless it's obvious Paxil is serious stuff so I will keep taking the tapering process very seriously.

[TonyW]

Best of luck, wishing you well!

[Hanna72]

@PerAsperaAdAstra Well done💪
I was also on Paxil for 20 years with many attempts to quit. This drug is poison. Be proud of every single drop you make, it is huge. We are stronger then Paxil💪

I am rooting for you

My best wishes to you. You’ve got this🙏

 

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Currently I'm almost finishing my third slide and I'm almost down to 20 MGAI. Time to have a talk to my GP to get him on my side and swap my 30mg Paxil tables for 20mg ones. Cutting 30mg tables becomes too much of a chore.

 

Happy with the progress. Bumps were pretty much non-existent. I owe that to this website and the people that make it run. So big shout-out to you!

[ChessieCat]

You are doing really well.

 

I suggest that before seeing your GP you might find it helpful to practise what you are going to say to him.  If you think that he is against you going off the drug you can say that you want to be on the lowest effective dose.  It's important to be assertive without sounding like you know more than the doctor.  If he thinks you are going too slowly you could say that you have done some research and are aware that some people experience withdrawal symptoms when they reduce their drug too quickly and that you would prefer to go slower rather than to risk causing issues, because nobody knows if you might be a person who needs to go slowly.

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

 

dsm-5-diagnosis-code-antidepressant-discontinuation-syndrome-99529-icd-10-t43205a

 

 

 

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Thanks for the resources you shared @ChessieCat! I was also pondering mentioning the lowest effective dose.

 

But now research is increasingly showing withdrawal most certainly is a thing I'm sure I can point the GP to it in order to underline why to be so cautious.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

And I've reached 20 mgai. Back to my old dose. *yay* for me.

From here on I'll take it slow and not take any risks. 

 

Haven't had any real problems from tapering thus far. Some private matters caused suffering, but the antidepressants seem to have not exacerbated it.

 

Still have to talk to my doctor about the tapering, I've been procrastinating doing it. This week will be the week in which I'll arrange the appointment.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Almost down to 15 mgai, half the dose of when I started. 

 

I feel some minor cortisol surges (don't know how else to call it).

Also the feeling my body starts increasingly noticing that I'm tapering. Very minor though, so still very satisfied about the progress.