Claudius Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Deep depression and almost total anhedonia was not really my original issue and even during WD it was only a incidental occuring issue. But last weeks/months the depressive/anhedonic feelings are terrible. It surely has to to with looking back at my dangerous and insane actions against my former bully as I described in another thread. And having been too weak to resist the urge to do these things. Already from beginning of WD, I was determined to apply spiritual laws. But in fact I violated these laws by sending out so much negative emotion and hatred that I could not expect to get back any positivity. Now I feel nothing anymore but shame and sadness. Yesterday I made a good hike and went to the pub with a friend but just had to play the role of enjoying it...but in fact I felt pretty disconnected. And still live with the image with my bully on my mind but I have to admin that I only have feeded this ever greedy and growing pain body by myself. And, different from 2-3 years ago, the pain of my insanity on this subject is a lot worse than the memories of the bullying itself. I am now at 42 months in WD and feel a lot worse than one year ago. Maybe new poisons and/or waste chemicals are released because I follow a new homeopathic detox cure. And indeed I feel like poisons are flowing in my body again, feel some new kind of tinglings in the legs and feet and must drink now 2 liters of water each day. Monday I see the doctor again and hope he can affirm that these feelings can be a consequence of the detox. But I feel pretty desperate... my mother is so sad seeing me in this state for so long and that hurts me so much. 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 hi Cl , i would see several points : - waves come and go (maybe many years after off...) - after two years we are able again to act on our thinking as normal people (we can make worse obsessions of bullying) - the difficult for you (and it is for me) is to change our life(working, leisure..) - a healthy people (with no psy meds) who i put during 2/3 years in our nightmare hell will be traumatized so a drugged is worse some testimonies after paxil said i am traumatized (i am ) , only a few tell they are stronger after - you have as i a life "empty" and filled with "bullying" and other "unemployment" after these suffering years - we have to fill our life with simple things as normal people and not maintain the paxil state so we have to stop old bullying, old thinking find pleasure in eating, speaking, pets, flowers, handyman, walking, reading, laughing, watching TV, find a partner(if possible without problems or ...) all this is easy to say, but as we have so suffered, we can do a last step there exist people very worse as you and y (follow patientlikeme) your state can be better, or worse, it is in your hands i am too in a difficult state (alone divorced, dog given to my exwife, suffering , 60 old with physical problems (many from W/D), only one point well (retired) i have my happiness in my hands as you i read a few paxil survivers are alone and financial broken cheer up ! for anxiety 12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 67 years old - 9 years med free in protracted withdrawal rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate, function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healing Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Great post, stan! Claudius, stan's probably right and this is just more of the non-linear process of healing, but, just in case, let me ask a couple of questions -- You say the depression / anhedonia have been worse for the last weeks / months. When did you start the homeopathic detox cure? Generally speaking, I would expect homeopathy to have no adverse effects. However, if the treatment provokes a *detox* in particular, that could be the problem. You probably want to stay away from detox in any form. Dysautonomia cannot handle detox. Plus, I'm not convinced we need detox from Paxil. Maybe we need detox from a lifetime of pollution, but now is probably not the time to do that. 1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so... 1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so... 2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so... Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 Great post, stan! Claudius, stan's probably right and this is just more of the non-linear process of healing, but, just in case, let me ask a couple of questions -- You say the depression / anhedonia have been worse for the last weeks / months. When did you start the homeopathic detox cure? Generally speaking, I would expect homeopathy to have no adverse effects. However, if the treatment provokes a *detox* in particular, that could be the problem. You probably want to stay away from detox in any form. Dysautonomia cannot handle detox. Plus, I'm not convinced we need detox from Paxil. Maybe we need detox from a lifetime of pollution, but now is probably not the time to do that. Stan and Healing, thanx 4 your replies.I started the detox 2 months ago, and this periode I also endured a lot of stress. I am just as you convinced that there is no such thing as "detox" from Paxil, because the sooner it is removed from your system, the worse and longer lasting the symptoms are. But I do believe that many systems and organs are affected, and maybe the natural way of the body to handle toxic stuff is diminished. I want to give the cure a change for about 4 months (so 2 months more). But I realize that my depression and anhedonia has probably more to do with my bizarre behaviour, the danger I brought myself and others in, the destructive power of my actions and having been charged with destructive, negative energy for so long. And I fear, just as Stan tells, to be traumatized forever by all this. I cannot see how I will ever emerge "stronger" from a physical/neorological/psychological trauma which severity is beyond each description. I feel just not connected to life anymore, and would probably give up if my mother was not there. But maybe I will be more positive in a next post. Right now I feel like an idiot... 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healing Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Claudius, I am a very impatient person. This Paxil journey has been very challenging for me. I am learning that the harder I push, the slower things change. The more I surrender to the process and try to be open to what the Universe is bringing me -- the faster things actually improve. What a hard lesson this has been for me! I was raised to push myself, and I became very good at that. This is the completely opposite skill. 1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so... 1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so... 2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so... Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 My depression still persists, though i was not really my original issue. But last weeks/months I can really enjoy nothing and suffer from almost complete anhediona. It is difficult to state whether it is purely WD related or also triggered by my own behaviour and the impossibility to resume a normal life. But even during a nice Easter holiday trip I could hardly enjoy my time. But because there are still ongoing psychical/neurological issues too, there must be at least a WD related factor. But now after 43 months and realizing I am approaching the 4 year point I am really through it and even think of trying to start something. Of course no Paxil, but I sometimes think of trying Zoloft () or a TCA like Amitryptiline, which appears not to have the excruciating WD profile of PAxil and Efexor. I know several people who got benefit from amitryptiline and got off without problems. And hope to feel better on it and try to get off very slowly in the future. I guess few people will advice to do so, and I feel great hesitation by myself too. But is is just a thought because I know this is no life either... Any experience with it? 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 hi Claudius, sorry for your suffering (i suffer too but not the same areas) i would never take again a psymed which touch nerves hormones, these meds destabilize autonomic system delicate balance and it takes years to try to repair if so, why not try st john wort ? or other for anxiety 12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 67 years old - 9 years med free in protracted withdrawal rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate, function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healing Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Personally, I would never take another psych med. It's either Rubik's cube neurological shiftings on the way to healing more. Or there's some psychological trigger. Or there's some supplement or treatment trigger. We can help you try to discern which it is, but a psych med would not help with any of these things. To me, it feels like you want to punish yourself for your sins by taking a drug that you know will harm you. What would Eckhart Tolle say? I'm serious. 1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so... 1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so... 2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so... Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Healing you are probably right! I use some supplements and indeed had a psychological trigger last month. Very well possible that this is the cause of it. Echkart Tolle will surely not advice psych meds but despite his wisdom he has AFAIK no knowledge of protracted WD... But I know there is still a big WD related component to the suffering so a med will surely be no answer. But I thought about it beause the pressure to resume work is growing and I really want to lead a normal, anxiety and depression free life again! Indeed the Cube is messy right now but maybe a few turns and it looks a lot better Thanks for your reaction! 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted May 2, 2011 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 2, 2011 Healing you are probably right! I use some supplements and indeed had a psychological trigger last month. Very well possible that this is the cause of it. Echkart Tolle will surely not advice psych meds but despite his wisdom he has AFAIK no knowledge of protracted WD... But I know there is still a big WD related component to the suffering so a med will surely be no answer. But I thought about it beause the pressure to resume work is growing and I really want to lead a normal, anxiety and depression free life again! Indeed the Cube is messy right now but maybe a few turns and it looks a lot better Thanks for your reaction! I love your image of the Rubik's cube! I wanted to say, you are not alone. In Anatomy of an Epidemic, Robert Whitaker reports on the statistics of antidepressant use. What happens with antidepressants is that they actually cause depression to become a recurring problem. Before the use of antidepressants people usually had one depressive episode, got over it, and never had one again. But when people take antidepressants it becomes a recurring problem, whether they continue on the drugs or go off of them. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201010/do-antidepressants-worsen-the-long-term-course-depression-giovanni-fava-p I know that once I began Prozac, I began to have periodic episodes of severe suicidal depression. Over time this became worse even after changing to other antidepressants. If, after I am off medications, I have a repeat experience of depression, I feel very resolved to try everything possible to cope with this depression without ever putting my brain at risk by taking another antidepressant. I think the things I will try will be light box therapy (I have found this to be very strong for me), exercise, eating well, therapy, CBT, dancing, and as Stan describes above, paying attention to the small and good things and getting out of myself. I urge you to try at least getting some vigorous exercise regularly, if you can, and perhaps light therapy, either with natural sunlight or a light box or both, before trying another drug. The drugs just extend the problem and make it worse in the future, in my opinion. And it has been shown in good studies that exercise is more effective than medication (the medications really don't work all that well). I like dancing as an antidepressant because it gives you exercise, social contact (also good for depression I think), friendly physical touch, gets you out of the lonely house, and I think there is just something special about dancing that stimulates "feel good" hormones and neurotransmitters. Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 As one who took psych meds for 15 years, no matter how depressed I feel, hell will freeze over before I ever take another psych med again. For me, the cure was worse than the disease. I totally agree with Rhi's suggestions about trying other means to resolve the depression. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 I sure won't, but sometimes I am just through it. I sill do some sports, get out with friends and have a social life. But at the bad moments it is difficult to enjoy it. And I would not trust a single doctor to "guide" me in using a med. My sister has been on Amitryptiline for years and wanted to get off. The doctor had no clue and just adviced her "to skip a pill each week, and then 2 pills each week, until you are off". She got off without proboems but the advice was of course crap. Lucky for her that Amitriptiline, anold tricyclic AD, is AFAIK far less dangerous and addicting as Paxil and Effexor. And that is the reason that I sometoims think of this med as a last resort when the symptoms really won't clear up. But I still want to give the healing more time, and still have financial spare for at least 2 years. 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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