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Frenchgirl

Dear survivors

I'm a french newbie,i hope my english isn't too bad,so i apologize if it's the case.

My médication story is complicated.Very long To explain.

Effexor started in the end off 2009,or beginning 2010  various dosages+some clonazepam drops for one year or 2.

Effexor 150mg Feb 2015.Prazepam in small doses then taper ok.

Clonazepam drops July 2018 3 at first then various dosages too.3 drops 2 drops 1 drop, less than1 ,1.5 drop,1.15 now

Effexor 187.5mg from Dec To mid Feb 2019

Cut down To 150mg mid Feb til late March 2019.

Then 112.5mg effexor late march until now.

 

I've tried To wean off this s.... of Effexor,several times.Last attempt last year.On 150mg.

First at the beginning of 2018,by alterning doses 150 mg and 112.5mg.It wasn't ok.Then by putting off some beads of a capsule.At first ok then i Beggan more depressed.I had more acute tinnutus too(because of a rock concert in June 2018) and became more depressed Also.Try To come back at 150mg Effexor in July i think.Maybye too Much at that time...from What i've read here.This end up in a Psych Clinic in late November 2018.

Updosing Effexor To 187.5mg.Then drop my 2 clonazepam drops at 1.Feel Well in Décember and go out the Clinic.It was ok for some weeks.I already have some side effects while in  Clinic but i made no relations with the AD except insomnia and maybye my blood pressure too high.Then i lost Weight can't sleep,high blood pressure,atrial fibrilation,suicidal toughts,depressed.Stay at this dosage until mid Feb 2019.I have staid too long too high.Then cut down To 150 mg same things and huge fatigue and an anxiety on top.2nd cut To 112.5 mg huge fatigue insomnia low mood anhedonia,highly depressed,suicidal toughts.Also that was complicated with up and downs with clonazepam increase in June(doctor's idea):disaster..then i decrease very slowly.Became obssessed with the médication.

 

I blame myself for all my errors..I have summarized a lot the situation.

Nowadays psychiatrits want :me either To updose  first to reach 130mg,then To  reach the former dosage 150mg when i was well.

Then the new psych i see had also the ideas:to add modafinil massive stimulant for narcolepsy!!No no!!

 To add mirtazapine following FDA advices!!to  boost effexor.Ohh no!

Is it risky To updose now?6 months after? A tiny amount?

Thanks for your support.

Frenchie.

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Sassenach

Hello  Frenchie  and welcome to SA.

 

This site is run entirely by volunteer Administrators and Moderators, all have been through or going through withdrawal.

There are no commercial interests or influences  involved .

 

I am sorry you are having such a rough time but you are now in the right place.

 

To begin we need information regarding your drugs.

Please follow the link below

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/settings/signature/

 

I understand you may feel you have given this info above.

The drug signature will appear below every post you make and enable busy to mods to see your history at a glance, rather than looking through posts.

Please complete in the following format:

Date / Drug name / Drug dose and whether tapered or cold turkeyed.

If tapered over what period or what percentage.

Please include all supplements.

Do not include symptoms.

If you have any problems with the above please advise me so I can help.

 

You are suffering withdrawal symptoms from changes of dose and meds.

Please see the links below for info on what is happening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQtO6HXJfjw

the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

4 hours ago, Frenchgirl said:

I blame myself for all my errors.

We all do this but is not our fault, it is down to drugs and doctors.

 

4 hours ago, Frenchgirl said:

Nowadays psychiatrits want :me either To updose  first to reach 130mg,then To  reach the former dosage 150mg when i was well.

Then the new psych i see had also the ideas:to add modafinil massive stimulant for narcolepsy!!No no!!

 To add mirtazapine following FDA advices!!to  boost effexor.Ohh no!

Well done you got this right.

 

4 hours ago, Frenchgirl said:

Is it risky To updose now?6 months after? A tiny amount?

As you are still on the drug  an updose is possible, but for the moment it would be better to hold until we have all the info requested above.

We will then be able to advise you.

 

In the meantime DO NOT MAKE ANY CHANGE TO YOUR CURRENT MEDS please.

Please feel free to browse the site, it is a wealth of info.

Other members threads will give you an insight and the opportunity to share experiences.

 

Again welcome.

 

Sassenach

 

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Erell

Bonjour Frenchie!

 

Im a French girl too I'm going To write in English, so everybody can understand,  but Feel free To mp me if you want!

By the way, To me your English seems To be pretty awesome ;)

 

I just wanted To welcome you here, and tell you that you're going To find a lot of important information on the forum. It helps a lot To understand what is going on !!!

 

For now, best advice I can give you is To answer Sassenach's questions and do not any change To your current meds.

 

I'm happy To read a French girl ! :)

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Frenchgirl

Hi Sassenach

Thank you for your fast reply,and your welcoming!I Will fill in my signature ASAP.I've already read a lot of infos on the forum,very instructive,and differents threads and topics.About reinstitating and updosing for instance.

You're so supportive!!And kind!!

 

@Erell

Bonsoir,merci pour ton accueil!😉

I'm going To follow your advice,I Will answer Sassenach,i think tomorrow,now I'm tired,i came back from work at nearly 8.00 pm.Maybye if i don't sleep,i Will start and post later.

I follow your story here and on the French forum.Nasty drugs!I don't you  tell you my job...you're going To laugh..

Stay strong,you are on the good road.

 

Take care Erell and Sassenach.

Frenchie.

 

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Erell

Coucou  Frenchie !

 

May I ask who you are on French forum ?

 

Take care!

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Frenchgirl

Hi Sassenach

I've done my homework 😄

It was hard to summarize,too many changes..it took me a long while..but here is my signature!I am going To sleep now it's very late.Sleep tight and we talk tomorrow.

Kind regards.

Frenchie.

 

 

 

 

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Sassenach

Hi Frenchie

 

Many thanks for your drug signature.

You are definitely suffering withdrawal symptoms and have been for a while.

However this may not be entirely due  to the Antidepressant, it may also be complicated by the Clonazepam causing interdose withdrawal.

I am sure you know Clonazepam is a Benzo.

We have a Mod on here who specialises in this area and am going to ask her advice on this.

It is generally not a good idea to taper more than one drug at a time.

It means we do not know which drug is doing what.

For the moment do not change any of your drug doses, we will get back to you.

 

Sassenach

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Frenchgirl

Hi @Sassenach

 

You're surely right To say i have withdrawal symptoms.I agree that the background was complicated with the up and down of Clonazepam.For the interdose(i hope i've well understood since english isn't my native language)i want you to know that i have just have ONE DOSE per day the evening.

But i think the main issue is with Effexor.

Unfortunately I wasn't Well on the high dose of 187.5mg effexor,i had huge side effects(insomnia,headache,high blood pressure,atrial fibrillation,suicidal toughts,sweatings,small seizures...)I had To cut down from my own but i did it in a wrong way.

I thought i was having a serotoninergic syndrom...All the symptoms were denied by psych,excepted for the heart(had an exam with my cardiologist who wrote à letter To him).After the 1st cut :anxiety went on top,felt tired,depressed,had insomnia,obsessive thoughts,anhedonia.Some little seizures.

Same things with the 2nd cut from my own.I've not listened To my body..The 2nd time i knew i should have done more slowly,and i have wanted to.I was so depressed and in total panic.The psychologist i see now ,says i had cortisol Spike,which made me unable To take a decision.With this drastics changes i had the impression To change from" To too much To not enough..."

 

I've not managed To updose because of my fears...I only made some attempt to at the end of May,this time the psych agreed with that.I didn't want to updose too much.I only have tried 2 days 5mg more(compounded caps on average 20 beads inside )then stopped then restarted for 5 days then stopped...

It wasn't the best way To do that.

I don't even know that it needs 4 days at least To be in blood and To be registered by the brain.

I'm torturing my mind with the med, and updosing.Became obsessed.It seems that it can be a WD symptom Also?The more the time pass the more afraid I'm.

 

Feel free To ask me more info and details,my symptoms, my story is very long and complicated,i can't tell you all  the details at once.

I wish you all the best.

Frenchie.

 

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Frenchgirl

Thank you for all your support and your help Sassenach.

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Altostrata

Welcome, FG.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and their dosages?

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Frenchgirl

Hi Altostrata

For Effexor while eating at 13:30 or 14:00,112.5mg and clonazepam the evening at about 22:30-23:30 1 drop and a little bit more let's says 1.16 in total.

Many thanks for your help.

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Altostrata

How do you feel after taking Effexor?

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Frenchgirl

Sorry for the delayed response,it seems to have troubles with my connexion.I will say more or less the same.Sometimes a little bit more energy or energyzed maybye.Some sweats,heart beats amplified sometimes.

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Shep
2 hours ago, Frenchgirl said:

Hi Altostrata

For Effexor while eating at 13:30 or 14:00,112.5mg and clonazepam the evening at about 22:30-23:30 1 drop and a little bit more let's says 1.16 in total.

Many thanks for your help.

 

How is your sleep, Frenchgirl? Do you sleep all night? 

 

How do you feel when you wake up? Do you feel that the clonzepam may be wearing off during the day? While clonazepam does have a long half life of 18 - 50 hours, some people feel withdrawal in between doses. Please let me know if you feel like you may be going into withdrawal in between clonazepam doses. 

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Frenchgirl

Hi Shep,i've To go at work,Will answer ASAP,here it's the afternoon.I'm Phone connected.Best regards.FG

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Frenchgirl

Dear Shep

 

I have To say I'm very impressed by your withdrawal journey. Congratulations!

 

Then i wake up i'm a bit drowsy,some dark toughts and low mood.I don't really Feel like clonazepam is wearing off the day.

My sleep is better than it was.Nowadays i can sleep a couple of hours,it wasn't the case some months ago.So it's better than it was,especially with the high dose of effexor i had at the beginning of the year:187.5mg!!At this period i can't sleep at all.Now i know i am very sensitive To each change of dose med.I think i'd better stick To this benzo dosage.

(For info psych told me To increase clonazepam a little in June,it was a disaster i was drowsy all day long, felt even more depressed,forgot i has told me To try just few days...).

I don't Feel like I'm going into withdrawal in between clonazepam doses.As you have seen i have a low clonazepam dose.With my cocktail:plants and clonazepam i can sleep.But i had To stop valerian i was To drowsy with.

Are you in the US?

In which City ?

Here it's the evening.

Take Care.

FG.

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Frenchgirl

Many thanks to all the team for taking care of all of us,and for your interest in others.I Will post tomorrow it's night here,I'm going To sleep.Will be at work tomorrow morning and then I hope i can have a talk with Altostrata.

 

Take Care.

FG.

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Frenchgirl

@Superwoman

Bonsoir SW

Do i have To answer you on your thread or mine?Don't really know.Many thanks for your answer,everything was clear.

I've seen that  you take off your bead from a 37.5mg caps as i tought.I seems that in my caps effexor branded one's or generic from the same cie,one bead equals more To 0.3mg.

I've read the links about reinstatement and updosing.There's a lot of informations.

I don't take coffee or any cafeine.

That's great you see an improvement!without your supplements.

You were asking me if i have alerting symptoms.I have since months, because i made huge cuts on a instable "background".The main issue i have is being depressed+fatigue and to cope with.I'd say anxiety had been worst after my cuts,(now better.)WD!

I think the issue is that my brain used To have 150 mg for years and don't really understand.

The psych i went To see wants me To updose To :first 130 mg by adding 5 more milligrams every 3 days!!!I said To him I'm afraid To do that.He said come back To the Clinic it's more secure.

The 2nd time he said updose To 150mg,or we can add Remeron,or Modafinil(crazy!!).

He nearly convinced me for Remeron.

For updosing i said like the 1st time and he told me "what do you fear?"

"It Will happen nothing from 112.5mg to 150mg"(that's a 30 pc increase).Then he wants me To do a DNA test To see what AD is working for me.And come back at the Clinic.

I'm in  panic after these 2 appointements with him.

From what i've read here and according to you, small increments are less risky.

I Feel like i've missed my chance for an updose,everything i've read here made me anxious about it.It's a very long story.Sometimes i also Feel like with a little bit more venlafaxine it may be better.May i ask you when in March you decreased effexor To  112.5mg and when in Sept have you increased?

I hope we can keep in touch.

Take Care.

French Girl.

 

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Shep
On 10/4/2019 at 4:11 PM, Frenchgirl said:

But i had To stop valerian i was To drowsy with.

 

Please be careful with Valerian. It acts like a mild benzo and it's possible to become dependent on it. 

 

Do you feel worse since you stopped? If you stopped within the past month, you may want to reinstate a small amount if you're experiencing withdrawal from it. 

 

2 hours ago, Frenchgirl said:

I'm in  panic after these 2 appointements with him.

 

Please see:

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

The first post in this thread contains a series of videos that may be helpful (wish we had these in French for you, though):

 

Withdrawal dialogues & encouragement

 

 

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Superwoman

Hi Frenchgirl,

I don’t really know where to post. I was wondering myself. Maybe a moderator could answer that?  It is recommended to start at only 0.1mg if you are having alerting symptoms.  Did you mean to say, “one bead from the 37.5mg. capsule equals 0.3 mg.?”  Sorry, I didn’t quite understand the translation.  Do you plan on getting off all psych drugs and then staying off?  I agree with you. I think adding more drugs to the cocktail right now would be crazy.  Note: I am not a medical professional.  This is just my personal opinion.  It does not make sense to me to further confuse your body by adding in more drugs and potential side effects when you are already dealing with issues from the drugs that you are on.  I think that you should follow you instincts and listen to your body.  No one knows your body better than you do and you have a right to do what feels right to you.  It makes more sense to me to try a very cautious approach to updoseing.  You can always add more later if need be. But if you start out too high and you become destabilized it will set you back farther and be harder to get your body back in balance again. Plus the more drug you add, the more you will have to get off of later.  I think that what the doctor is suggesting is too much too fast.  He suggests increasing every 3 days, but it takes a week for your brain to notice the increase. Ultimately, it is up to you.  I know that it is hard to stand up for yourself when talking to doctors.  I would just be respectful and polite while at the same time staying firm. I don’t see any harm in getting a DNA test. It may be useful.  I decreased Effexor to 112.5 mg. on March 22.  I added the extra bead on September 14 (3 weeks ago).  Some people have had success with an updose after many months.  I don’t mean to scare you.  The negative reaction that I had was noticeable, but NOT horrible or devastating.  I think though that if I had updosed a lot that I would have had a big bad reaction. So, this is why I would advise a small updose. If you do have a bad reaction it is more likely to be a small bad reaction, not a big bad reaction.  Maybe if you track your symptoms for a few days you might learn something. This has helped me a lot find patterns. There is a post on tracking symptoms.  Your symptoms could be from withdrawal, or they could be a side effect of your medication, or from something else. Even if you could tolerate this dose before you might be more sensitive to the meds now. Hope this helps.  Let me know how everything goes.

 

Superwoman

 

 

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Frenchgirl

Hi @Shep

Thanks for your reply.I'm not worse since stopping valerian,i don't think so.I know that it can interacts with benzos.And have seen it can acts like benzos.Don't remenber exactly when i stopped it,maybye 2 weeks ago.

 

I Will have a look at the vidéos.That Will help for sure.

 

Take Care.

FG.

 

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Superwoman

Valerian smells just like sweaty smelly feet.  I brewed some Valerian tea once and my whole house smelled like stinky feet 😂!  So then I decided better go with the capsules.  Thought you might appreciate some humor.

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Frenchgirl

Hi Superwoman 

I'm so glad you can answer me.

Yes i wanted To say one of my bead equals  0.3mg.You 've well understood.Sorry i write without translator from my own!With my english level.Unfortunately i can go further in my withdrawal...too much symptoms from WD.No problem you haven't scared me,it's me who scared myself.

For the DNA test it's because he also plans To switch my AD!!What a good idea🙄,it's going To be a disaster...And he also wants To know if Remeron(norset in France)can act for me.Yes i also think the Dr's idea of increasing every 3 days is too fast.

I keep in mind all you've said To me.

Valerian smells like sweety smelly feets that's right😄.We call it "Cat's Herb".

I'm going To sleep here we are late at night and i have To manage To wake up To go at work.Will post a complement tomorrow.

I Will let you know how everything goes.

Have a Nice day.

FG.

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Frenchgirl

Hi @Altostrata

What Will you advice in my situation?

You may have seen what the Dr adviced me about updosing.

First appointment:5 more mg every 3 days if Well tolerated,until i reach 130mg.2nd one:updose To 150 mg,there's no problem !or updose To 120 mg,because i wasn't convinced..

I've seen slow and slight improvements but my mood has really difficulties To lift up.

Yesterday my sleep wasn't good at all.

I have To say I'm out the 3 months Windows since my last dose decreased.I hope that makes sense.

If updosing what dose?

Thanks for your reply,support and web site.

FG.

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Sassenach

Hi Frenchie

 

When is your appoinment with the doctor?

 

Sassenach

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Frenchgirl

Hi Sassenach 

In fact i haven't p got any appointement with him because he wants me To go back at the Clinic!!!!On the last appointement he asked me:When do you come?

He also applied for admission for me...the secretary phoned me 3 times and the last time i said: i've To think about it!

I don't really want To go back over there,and do the guinea pig!

I hope everything is okay for you.

Have a good night.

Frenchie.

 

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Sassenach

Bonjour Frenchie

First let me say that that they 1 month time period only refers to reinstatement after completely stopping the drug.

There is no rush for you to do anything unless you feel your symptoms are unbearable.

Your system is currently settling around the drugs you have been taking for the last few months..

There is really no need for you to go into hospital particularly if they are going to start changing and increasing your drugs at random.

How are you feeling at the moment and I have symptoms getting better or worse? The only thing you need is an ongoing supply of drugs. We can and will help you on this site if you wish to get through this without further changes to your medication.

Sassanach

 

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Shep

Frenchie, please list the drugs you are currently taking. We need the name of each drug, the dose, and the time of day you take it.  Please also include your supplements with the same information. 

 

How many hours are you sleeping at night? 

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Altostrata
On 10/4/2019 at 11:58 AM, Frenchgirl said:

Sorry for the delayed response,it seems to have troubles with my connexion.I will say more or less the same.Sometimes a little bit more energy or energyzed maybye.Some sweats,heart beats amplified sometimes.

 

This indicates your current dose may be too activating. We'll need to see your daily drug and symptom notes, as Shep requested. 

 

19 hours ago, Frenchgirl said:

Hi @Altostrata

What Will you advice in my situation?

You may have seen what the Dr adviced me about updosing.

First appointment:5 more mg every 3 days if Well tolerated,until i reach 130mg.2nd one:updose To 150 mg,there's no problem !or updose To 120 mg,because i wasn't convinced..

I've seen slow and slight improvements but my mood has really difficulties To lift up.

Yesterday my sleep wasn't good at all.

I have To say I'm out the 3 months Windows since my last dose decreased.I hope that makes sense.

If updosing what dose?

Thanks for your reply,support and web site.

FG.

 

You have the choice to follow this doctor's directions. Very few doctors understand anything about withdrawal syndrome.

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Superwoman

I also have amplified, fast heartbeat after taking Effexor, but sometimes not for a number of hours after tracking it.  I agree I think that it is activating. Does this mean that the dose is too high?

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Sassenach

Hi Frenchie

 

 

Effexor is sedating antidepressant which is why Alto is suggesting your current dose may be too high, so an updose would make matters worse.

Please check your drug signature as Shep requested and ensure all current drugs and supplements are listed.

We also need a daily diary in the following format;

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety 5
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache 3
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy 6
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

The numbers are severity of symptoms from 0 to 10

 

6 hours ago, Shep said:

How many hours are you sleeping at night? 

 

Alto is the site founder and Shep a senior mod on here.

By giving them the info. requested they will try to establish cause and effect.

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You have the choice to follow this doctor's directions. Very few doctors understand anything about withdrawal syndrome.

If you look around this site at other member's threads you will see the results of this site's advice.

 

Sassenach

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Altostrata
4 hours ago, Superwoman said:

I also have amplified, fast heartbeat after taking Effexor, but sometimes not for a number of hours after tracking it.  I agree I think that it is activating. Does this mean that the dose is too high?

 

Some people find Effexor to be stimulating. Reducing the dosage should reduce the adverse effect.

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Sassenach

Hi Frenchie

 

How do you feel about reducing your dose?

If you decide to go ahead please ensure you reduce by 10% or less  and ensure you keep sending the diary.

Do not taper the benzo at the same time.

 

Sass

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Frenchgirl

Hi SA's staff!

Current medications:Effexor 112.5mg the afternoon around 14:00 while eating.

Clonazepam:1.16 drops around 22:30-23:00 at night.

Supplements:passionflower and escholtzia the evening,22:00/22:30.

@ShepSleep pattern:it depends,light sleep(but it has always been the case more or less),the number of hours varies a lot,from 1h and half or 2 to 5/6 hours on average.The previous nights were not decent( 1or 2 better).Was thinking i'd better take effexor the morning instead of the afternoon.

 

 

 

Moreover @Sassenach,Effexor NEVER  had a sedating effect ,on the contrary,it's stimulating for me.When i had been stable with the med i could have insomnia,and slept only 5 hours sometimes,and was obliged To take escholtzia and valerian every night.

That's why the more effexor i've taken the less able To sleep i was.(Late January,February 2019 with 187.5mg )

I can't decrease my dose since as I'm always expériencing WD symptoms and I'm not stable at all.

The more i've decreased my dose the more tired i was.

(Cut the story)At the end of  March,beg April,i said To a pharmacist's friend, that i was thinking i was missing my dose but he said it was psychological.Told my relaxation therapist the same thing(she knew i wanted to taper the drug)she said "go on like this you're strong".I' d better not have listened To them,and reincrease my dose at that time.Have in mind i tapered more than 10 pc each time,20 pc and 25 pc and for about one month each time on a bad ground.I had troubles with my vision(double vision) in April and that was new, fortunately gone.I went into hell with unbearable symptoms:anxiety,anhedonia,depression,insomnia,suicidal toughts,lack of motivation,obsessions.I don't know how i haven't landed at the Clinic.I had so much difficulties To be functional and also now.

To answer your question i never had a "honeymoon".

The suffering was worst in March for instance  but I'm not doing Well.I was doing well before this failed taper.Have in mind i had several failed attempts to wean off or to reduce my dose over the years (Haven't given all the details)

My Symptoms are a little better.I'm less anxious.But they still are acute,severe. It's still very hard To get out of bed the morning and To Feel enjoyed.I'm not able To make plans for the future.Difficulties in daily activities such as housekeeping,take a shower..

 

PSM seems to be amplified also.I think that  the sweats were also related with my hormons.

Since 5/6 days

My hormons aren't helping at all,i have my period,and I'm exhausted,have frequent dark thoughts,i want To cry.

Always thinking about adding a tiny amount of beads.

Sorry for the long speech i try to explain the situation the best i can.

Thanks for your support,and your help Alto,Shep,Sass

Will post my diary.

All the best.

Frenchie.

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Shep
2 hours ago, Frenchgirl said:

Was thinking i'd better take effexor the morning instead of the afternoon.

 

This is a great idea, Frenchgirl. 

 

We recommend only moving your dose one hour a day. That's is easiest on your nervous system to move the dose slowly. 

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Sassenach

Hi Frenchie

 

How are you feeling?

 

Sassenach

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