Bee5 Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 In discussion with @Altostrata, I have decided to start this topic, to differentiate it from the cortisol thread, named "Waking with panic or anxiety - managing the morning cortisol spike". The reason for differentiating is because the cortisol spikes seem to happen mostly in the morning, while these adrenaline/panic awakenings happen any time during the night. And I am not sure what causes them, but I suspect it's adrenaline. I did a search on SA for "adrenaline" and many users described these adrenaline surges at night, or even during napping. Some users also referred to them as "toxic sleep" or "panic awakenings". During these awakenings, some people also describe a sense of dread or impending doom. When I was in the worst of my withdrawal, I would get these surges of adrenaline that would wake me up, and I would feel panic. After those, it was difficult to fall back asleep. At their worst, they would happen more than once a night. What I found to help slightly was to take Vit B6 and magnesium when I awoke from the adrenaline, and they seemed to help me to relax enough to fall back asleep. Now that I am in 'controlled withdrawal', i.e. dropping by 10%, I only get them sometimes after making a tapering cut. I would like to ask members who experience these these to please share their experience on adrenaline/panic awakenings so that we can get this thread going. Please can you describe when and how frequently they happen, and if you have found any non-drug solutions to help with calming down/getting back to sleep. 7 months of prescribed polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including several classes of psych meds. 1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway. 1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine 1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine 15 May 2022: 25 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 0 mg quetiapine 11 Jan 2024: 20 mg paroxetine, 118.75 mg lamotrigine Supplements: Iron, Vit D magnesium glycinate, omega 3 I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 15, 2019 Administrator Share Posted December 15, 2019 Thanks for starting this topic, Bee. It could be that these nighttime awakenings are caused by the same mechanism that wakes people when they're just falling asleep: Your hypersensitive nervous system is afraid you're going unconscious, so it pushes the panic button and wakes you up. In the middle of the night, your nervous system misinterprets a deeper sleep phase the same way. What I found effective was to play soft music (or even keep the TV on) throughout the night. Even though you're sleeping and not aware of the sounds, they are enough to keep your nervous system from sending up alarms. This may keep you from sleeping as deeply for a while, but over time, your nervous system will relax and your sleep will continue to improve. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted December 16, 2019 Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Altostrata said: Thanks for starting this topic, Bee. It could be that these nighttime awakenings are caused by the same mechanism that wakes people when they're just falling asleep: Your hypersensitive nervous system is afraid you're going unconscious, so it pushes the panic button and wakes you up. In the middle of the night, your nervous system misinterprets a deeper sleep phase the same way. What I found effective was to play soft music (or even keep the TV on) throughout the night. Even though you're sleeping and not aware of the sounds, they are enough to keep your nervous system from sending up alarms. This may keep you from sleeping as deeply for a while, but over time, your nervous system will relax and your sleep will continue to improve. I have these constantly. I wake up at least twice a night with an intense panic attack/sense of doom. Have never had a panic attack before WD. I can't get back to sleep easily but sometimes getting up and turning on the lights/opening the window looking outside helps. It might take an hour to calm me down. It happens when I nap during the day as well. I don't think I have woken up from a sleep without these since the start of WD. My room is completely blacked out. Thanks Alto for the tip on leaving something turned on. Will try that. Also I have many more nightmares since WD and more vivid dreams. But that would happen before as well when I missed my dosage of citalopram. It was like clockwork. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee5 Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 Thanks @Altostrata, I will keep the TV/music suggestion in mind for future. It just seems so cruel that your nervous system would not allow you to get the sleep that you need. @Onmyway, thanks for sharing, it always helps to know that you are not alone. I hope more members join this thread. 7 months of prescribed polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including several classes of psych meds. 1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway. 1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine 1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine 15 May 2022: 25 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 0 mg quetiapine 11 Jan 2024: 20 mg paroxetine, 118.75 mg lamotrigine Supplements: Iron, Vit D magnesium glycinate, omega 3 I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 16, 2019 Administrator Share Posted December 16, 2019 For quite a while, I needed to have the TV playing softly in the background so I could sleep. Films that were historical costume dramas were best, they usually had soft, classical-style music and no explosions. Jane Austen films were my favorites. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee5 Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 Ok, got it. I will try the music thing next time, I will set up a playlist of soothing music. 7 months of prescribed polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including several classes of psych meds. 1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway. 1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine 1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine 15 May 2022: 25 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 0 mg quetiapine 11 Jan 2024: 20 mg paroxetine, 118.75 mg lamotrigine Supplements: Iron, Vit D magnesium glycinate, omega 3 I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted December 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 12/16/2019 at 6:30 AM, Altostrata said: For quite a while, I needed to have the TV playing softly in the background so I could sleep. Films that were historical costume dramas were best, they usually had soft, classical-style music and no explosions. Jane Austen films were my favorites. I tried having music in the background last night all night and it didn't work well for me. I didn't have the terrors but kept waking up and not being able to sleep like 5-6 times. But it could also be because I'm in a big wave. Will see if just white noise makes a difference. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee5 Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) On 12/17/2019 at 1:50 AM, Onmyway said: I tried having music in the background last night all night and it didn't work well for me. I didn't have the terrors but kept waking up and not being able to sleep like 5-6 times. But it could also be because I'm in a big wave. Will see if just white noise makes a difference. Awakenings with the panic/adrenaline is unfortunately part of withdrawal. I also usually awake at 3AM for no reason, but I am not panicked/scared. In these instances, I take about 30 min to fall asleep, but if I struggle, I try to meditate, sitting up on my bed, or I read a PAPER book with my warm-colour lamp on (no blue light, no kindle, no ipad, no smartphone). For the panic/adrenaline awakenings, have you tried Vit B6 and Magnesium? They usually calm me down. Try Magnesium first, it is usually calming enough. Then if it doesn't calm you enough, try B6. I have read that high doses of Vit B6 are even used for akathisia. Maybe it's placebo but it works for me. Also, it is apparently a building block for some neurotransmitters. Also, the changing scenes on TV can be disturbing, so as you suggested, give white noise a try. Even something as simple as a fan on in your room. Good luck. Edited December 30, 2019 by Altostrata request of poster 7 months of prescribed polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including several classes of psych meds. 1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway. 1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine 1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine 15 May 2022: 25 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 0 mg quetiapine 11 Jan 2024: 20 mg paroxetine, 118.75 mg lamotrigine Supplements: Iron, Vit D magnesium glycinate, omega 3 I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 17, 2019 Administrator Share Posted December 17, 2019 When you can't sleep, listening in the dark to a audiobook might also be a good way to calm down to fall asleep again. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee5 Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 One of my friends swears by this. She listens to audiobooks every night. Thanks Alto. 7 months of prescribed polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including several classes of psych meds. 1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway. 1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine 1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine 15 May 2022: 25 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 0 mg quetiapine 11 Jan 2024: 20 mg paroxetine, 118.75 mg lamotrigine Supplements: Iron, Vit D magnesium glycinate, omega 3 I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted December 20, 2019 Moderator Share Posted December 20, 2019 I actually wanted to add something here as I have been thinking more about this. I think for me there are two different types of panic wakenings - one is just as I fall asleep and the other one is waking up in sweat after a vivid dream/nightmare. I can see that the first type would be the brain keeping the body away from going into coma but what about the second one. Any theories on why that might be happening? I recently talked to a friend who has the same symptom - waking up in panic multiple times a night but is not withdrawing - for her it happened postpartum and has resolved now a month in. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus123x Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 @Onmyway Wow I see someone finally has the same exact symptoms as me and I was also on escitalopram! Though, I see you've taken a lot more drugs than me, I've only taken escitalopram and now tapering off slowly from Seroquel. The vivid dreams have not stopped. I see them every time I sleep. If you look at my post history, you'll see that I am pretty desperate since it's been about 2 years and I still struggle. I am waiting on the magnesium that I've ordered and will see if it will make any difference. What I've personally noticed is that for some unknown reason, I wake up fully wide, awake and alert during the last sleep phase. I am getting 8-9 hours of sleep (with interruptions). Now 9 hours of sleep SHOULD be more than enough to feel refreshed but that doesn't happen with me. If I manage to sleep just 20-30 mins after I wake up, then I feel perfectly fine and fully refreshed (after sleeping 8-9 hours). My theory is that I don't get the last REM cycle. So 9 hours of sleep feels useless if you don't get that REM sleep. I don't know this for sure but I have no other idea of what's going on. The other problem with these awakenings is that sometimes when you wake up from a 9 hour sleep, at those moments, you will feel very refreshed. However, after about an hour or two, you'll realize that you haven't slept enough and you start to get real tired. And it's almost impossible to go back to sleep once you wake up wide and awake. I hope this made sense. 2012 Lexapro 25mg 2016-2017 started tapering by taking half-pill at irregular times 2017 Cortisol spikes started happening (while on the drug), eg: would wake up and wouldn't be able go back to sleep 2017 Q4 - Quit lexapro altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Good morning, I woke up last night after dropping my dose from 2 mg to 1.8 mg. What an awful feeling that is. Had trouble getting back to sleep. Never heard of this but then of course I’m new at this. Thanks for the info. Well try taking the magnesium 200 mg if this happens again. 2017–20 18 sertraline 50 mg 2018 Pristiq 50 mg 2018 Ciprolex 10 mg 2019 bupropion 150 mg 2019 to 2020 Mirtazapine 7.5 mg 2019 clonazepam 0.5 mg 2020 escitolopram 10 mg 2020 May Pre-Gabalin 150 mg, June sertraline 100 mg to 50 mg, December pre Gabalin 110 mg 2021, December pre-Gabalin 53.5 mg to 48 mg, December sertraline 38.8 mg to 38 mg 2022, January sertraline 38 mg to 36 mg, February sertraline 36 mg to 34 mg, March pre-Gabalin 48 mg to 46.2 mg, April 5 sertraline 34 mg to 33.6 mg., April 24, Sertraline 33.6 mg to 32.9 mg, April 24, stopped Calcium citrate 150 mg, May 4 melatonin 1.25, reducing melatonin see posts., May 2, Brand change on sertraline and pregabalin May 13 Sertraline 31.2 mg May 21 Sertraline 30.8 mg, May 28, Sertraline 30 mg, June 6 29.2 mg, June 16, 29.2 mg to 28 mg. July 4, Sertraline 28 mg to 27.4 mg, August 7, 27.4 mg to 24.8mg, August 11 pregabalin from 46.2 to 45 mg, Oct 11; Sertraline 24.4mg, Oct 18, 24 mg., Oct. 25, 23.5 mg, Nov 2, 23.2mg, Dec 2, pregabalin 43.2 mg, Dec. 29, Sertraline 22.4 mg, February 3/23 Sertraline 22 mg,, Feb 24, 22.6. Mg, melatonin From black cherry juice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee5 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 I wanted to add something to this thread. The nightmares/panic might also be a result of sleep paralysis. Sleep paralysis is a widely-known phenomenon, where you see strange supernatural beings but are paralysed and can't wake up. People who suffer from this report that it only happens when they sleep on their backs. One theory is that it is sleep apnea and you wake up because you can't breathe. I strictly sleep on my side, and I do not get this anymore, unless I accidentally roll onto my back while sleeping. Just something to consider, to eliminate all possible causes of panic/adrenaline/terror/nightmares. With regards to the vivid dreams: people have reported vivid dreams on the atypical antipsychotics, and it should go away as you reduce the dose. 7 months of prescribed polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including several classes of psych meds. 1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway. 1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine 1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine 15 May 2022: 25 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 0 mg quetiapine 11 Jan 2024: 20 mg paroxetine, 118.75 mg lamotrigine Supplements: Iron, Vit D magnesium glycinate, omega 3 I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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