Timberline: Finally here!

[Timberline]

Been following SI for a few years but never posted. Well, I'm thinking about attempting another lexapro taper after a life changing 2 years of trauma therapy and change in belief systems regarding mental health. I am also 35 years old, just got married and would like to have a baby in the near future.

 

I hope I did my signature correctly. I'm not sure if my situation is common for most? I appear to experience no symptoms when doing a quick taper and then after 3-5mos experience anxiety/panic but no other symptoms. (was this protracted withdrawal or original, unprocessed trauma returning?) It wasn't until I attempted, what I thought was a slower taper that I felt the worst of the worst. Cutting my lexapro 10mg pills in half and staying at 5mg. My plan was to stay at 5mg for a long time, but what do ya know, at 3 month mark, I was hit with crazy intrusive thoughts leading to a feeling of doom and gloom after a therapy session with a really terrible therapist. (I ultimately found a really great one!) Maybe the therapist triggered something? But I have to say, it felt very chemically induced. So I decided to go back to normal dose. Going back up to 10mg was horrid! I felt like I was fighting for my life. I seem to experience, what most experience through withdrawal, when going back ON my meds. Anytime I've gone back on, I get hit with terrible nausea, insomnia, panic, moodiness, agitation, sadness, hopelessness, etc. I always hung on though because I knew after a few weeks, I'd feel my normal self again.

 

So that's where I'm at now. Been back at 10mg and feeling great since September 2018. Found an amazing therapist, worked on a lot of limiting beliefs, educated myself about these medications and withdrawal, found a true passion for herbal medicine and just an overall complete transformation. Those intrusive thoughts lead to a major shift for me! I feel ready to give withdrawal another go but am confused and keep thinking that a quicker taper works for me. I'm hesitant to do the slow method, even thought I've never attempted a truly slow taper. But I feel like since I've processed a lot of stuff and have coping mechanisms and support systems in line now, I could possibly do my quick taper and be better prepared for that 3 month blip. Or am I completely wrong here?

 

Gosh! Decisions, decisions! Hoping for any input here from those more experienced than me. Thank you for being here and thank you for listening! xoxo

[brassmonkey]

Hi Timberline-- Welcome to SA, I'm so glad you've decided to start posting. It sounds like your past experience with tapering has been pretty awful, I think we can help change all that.  You've already proved twice that the quick taper doesn't work and, although you are reluctant to do it, I think a slow taper will be very effective.  You are in a good place to start with being stable for well over a year. I would highly recommend doing a 10% Brassmonkey Slide. This method is designed to taper as quickly as possible while minimizing the WD symptoms that are experienced. We have a large number of members using some variation of this method with great success. 

 

In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't take all that long and the reduced symptom load and the lower risk of adverse reactions makes it really worth the time.  If you were to try one of your fast tapers the chances of being kindled (a severe bad reaction) are quite high because of the two past bad experiences. If the kindling or other adverse reaction were to happen it will take many months or more to restabilize before you could continue to taper and your body would be very sensitive to any changes, so the taper would have to be done very slowly and carefully. We have found that it is always faster to go slowly.

 

A 10% Brassmonkey Slide would involve decreasing your dose by 2.5% a week for four weeks and then holding an additional two weeks to stabilize. If this sounds interesting let us know and we can help work out the details.

 

Brassmonkey

[Timberline]

Thank you so much for this response! Sorry for the delay... life has been changing and taking my attention elsewhere. I feel ready to start tapering though!

 

I plan to do the liquid method and making my own liquid from my pills. Will report back with any updates as things progress. I plan on reducing using the brassmonkey slide!

 

HERE WE GO!

[Timberline]

Cut or crush pills?

Prepping for a new taper attempt. Originally I was going to make my own liquid and taper slow but for some reason it doesn’t feel right to me. So I figured I’d give the pill cutting a try. I’ve never cut a pill when tapering so slow, so is the best method to shave the pill with a file to get to the correct amount or crush the pill and weigh the powder? I’m weaning lexapro, by the way. 

Thanks!! 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

Hi timberline,

 

I've moved your post to your Introduction topic.  This keeps your history in one place.

 

Please read Post #1 of this topic first:  tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram

 

using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses

 

which-tablets-or-pills-may-be-split-or-crushed

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Timberline]

Thank you! Hoping for some clarity on cutting vs crushing. Can’t seem to find that in any of the links you posted. Maybe someone will respond here! 

[ChessieCat]

Accuracy and consistency are the most important things.  I can remember reading that one member would use a nail file and count how many strokes he made to reduce the tablet.  However, it would be difficult to know if you had used the same amount of pressure each time.  Also, the tablets may be softer/harder depending on moisture content and/or brand if you had to change over.  At least with crushing and weighing you know that you are being as precise as possible.

 

Check out this post:

 

 

 

Here are a couple more topics:

 

how-to-cut-up-tablets-or-pills-using-a-pill-cutter

 

did-i-go-wrong-with-my-nailfile

 

the-brassmonkey-slide-method-of-micro-tapering

 

 

 

[Timberline]

okay, what am i doing wrong? i purchased a jewelers scale and weighed out 20 pills, divided that total weight by 20 and got an average pill weight of .129. I then crushed 1 pill in to powder, weighed the powder on the scale and got .089.

 

Did I crush the pill too much? It was pure fine powder.

 

Hmm...

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Timberline said:

okay, what am i doing wrong? i purchased a jewelers scale and weighed out 20 pills, divided that total weight by 20 and got an average pill weight of .129. I then crushed 1 pill in to powder, weighed the powder on the scale and got .089.

 

Did I crush the pill too much? It was pure fine powder.

 

Hmm...

 

Crushing the pills to a fine powder wouldn't affect the weight.  I find crushing better than cutting because you can get a more accurate and consistent dose.  

 

I would re-do your weighing process to get an average weight, but this time do the pills individually rather than all at the same time.  It's not really necessary to weigh 20 pills; 10 is sufficient.  Then post here your 10 weights for the 10 pills and post the average.  It's possible you made a calculating error.

 

 

[Timberline]

Thanks @Gridley.... I guess I forgot to mention that I also weighed each individual pill. I was getting anywhere between .126 - .130.... then i weighed the 20 pills.

Still nowhere near .089 ... there is a slight coating of powder left in the crusher when i empty it on to the scale. I'm thinking that's what is doing it but now sure how to fix that? it's impossible to get that out.

 

here is the pill crusher i'm using:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZ04NWS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Gridley]

19 minutes ago, Timberline said:

there is a slight coating of powder left in the crusher

So you have a  discrepancy between 89mg powder and 129mg tablet. 

 

I have one idea.  Try crushing a pill between two spoons (that's the way I do it).  That way you'll be able to get all the powder.  See what you get.

 

Also, I wouldn't crush the pills quite as fine.  I found I had a problem when the powder was too fine with it sticking to the weighing paper that I use to pour the powder into the capsule (LabExact weighing paper 3" X 3" if you want to try it).  A post-it is also fine.

[Timberline]

Amazing! Thank you so much for the suggestions @Gridley!!

[Timberline]

1 week under my belt! such a tiny success but so worthy of celebrating. A 10% cut of my 10mg lexapro. I have to say, cutting and weighing and being able to control how fast/slow I go along the way feels really good. Appreciative of all the support here. I hope to be able to help others in the same way one day. Onward and upward!

[Lynnardgirl]

1 hour ago, Timberline said:

1 week under my belt! such a tiny success but so worthy of celebrating. A 10% cut of my 10mg lexapro. I have to say, cutting and weighing and being able to control how fast/slow I go along the way feels really good. Appreciative of all the support here. I hope to be able to help others in the same way one day. Onward and upward!

I know I started weighing last week also!

was so nervous but wow it’s going so well! 
I finally have control on my tapering and precise or close to it! Cutting for over two years no wonder I couldn’t stabilize ‘ 

Read your post and helped me so much 

thanks @Timberline

 

[Gridley]

@Timberline  I read your post on Cici's thread that you plan to taper of 10mg Lexapro 10% every two weeks, then shift to every month at 5mg.  i'd urge you to taper every four weeks starting at 10mg.  Lexapro is the strongest SSRI on the market, and it is in the last 10mg that it is at its most potent.  I wouldn't take the chance with the two-week schedule, especially since your system is sensitized from your previous taper attempts.

[Timberline]

Hi all! Well, I almost made it the 2 year mark without needing assistance but alas, here we are. I’m kicking myself for not seeking guidance sooner. June 2nd will be two years into my 10mg lexapro taper. I’m currently at .5mg. I hit into some issues (insomnia, anxiety and increased sensitivity to sounds) at around the 1mg mark but decided I was close to the finish line and was feeling good so I would push through. Boy, what a regrettable decision. I went way too fast from 1mg down to .2mg within 6 months. I had good weeks and not so good weeks but never felt like I didn’t want to continue on with the taper…until recently. Insomnia has been a beast. I’ll go one night without a wink of sleep and then sleep 8 hours the next. That’s my most recent pattern. And while I’m thankful for the every other night of sleep, when I don’t sleep, I can’t function and I have to cancel my day. I can’t afford to do that much longer. If I worked for someone other than myself, I’d probably have been fired by now. Luckily I work for myself as a massage therapist but constantly having to cancel on my clients is not ideal. I’m currently 2 weeks out without work due to sleep issues and a hand injury which also ramped up my anxiety. So I’m stressed about money on top of all of this. Anyways, here’s a timeline to clear things up:

 

Sleep issues started back in September when I hit 1mg. 

2/22 - .2mg

 

4/2 - back up to .3mg after sleep issues. Slept great every night for 2 weeks with the help of 2mg melatonin and making sure I go to bed before my husband who snores!

 

4/18 - back up to .4mg after a sleepless night. Was the night before Easter and I was nervous I wouldn’t sleep and then have to cancel plans. I didn’t sleep and went to Easter anyways even though it was a struggle. Pattern of every other night continued the next few days.

 

4/20 - back up to .5mg. Decided to see my doctor. Had a massive panic attack at the doctors office. I’ve always had medical anxiety but during withdrawal it’s hit an all time high and this appointment really did a number on me. Doctor is great and fully supportive of my taper. We agreed I should find a place to stabilize and get sleep back on track. From there, when I’m ready, he’ll prescribe liquid lexapro and I’ll start slowly tapering again. He also prescribed Xanax which I desperately needed and took .25mg that day when I got home which settled things. Slept great that night and the following slept about 5 hours. I felt really off for the following two days after taking the Xanax and am wondering if it’s from that or just from a really tough week and my body adjusting to slightly higher dose. I’m sure it’s all of the above. But it really clicked in my head that Xanax isn’t the answer to this issue. It’s finding the right dose of lexapro for me right now and waiting there. As long as I need until I can start tapering again. I’m just praying it’s one of these lower doses. 

 

So, I’m currently at .5mg for 5 days now. I didn’t sleep at all last night and am feeling really disheartened. Should I give the .5mg a couple more days or should I continue up to .6mg starting tonight? I’m hopeful I’ll find a good point to land on to get back on track but figured it would be best to check in here and see what the experts think. 

 

Thank you so much for being here with me. Praying this is just a quick bump in the road. I put in a lot of hard work over these last 2 years and am learning a hard lesson right now. Time to slow it down. Xoxo

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by ChessieCat
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[Timberline]

I'm worried that since I'm not using the liquid yet and only cutting my pills and weighing...and I'm at such a low dose that I'm not getting accurate doses each time which could be causing these issues as well as the too fast taper. I'm hesitant to switch right over to the liquid though even though that would ensure accurate dosages each time. Ugh, if only there were a magic ball we could look to for all the answers!

[ChessieCat]

From your drug signature:

 

February 10, 2022 - .2mg (ran into sleep issues so holding at .2mg for now) April 25, 2022 back up to .5mg due to sleep issues and anxiety

 

 Vitamin D 2000mg

 

Q:  How long have you been taking Vit D at 2000mg?  What time of day do you take it?  Have you had follow up blood tests to see if your Vit D level is okay now?

 

I have several reasons for asking.  2000mg Vit D is a fairly high dose.  It is a daytime vitamin and it is best to take it in the morning.  Some members find, even if they take it in the morning, that it can affect their sleep.  When my Vit D was low the doctor put me on 4000mg Vit D but never told me to do follow ups so I was taking it at those dose for a very long time and it wasn't until I started questioning/researching my antidepressant issues that I realised that 4000mg Vit is a very high dose and it should have been followed up to see if I still needed to take that amount or if I could reduce it.

 

It is very easy to attribute things to AD WD, and if we have experienced bad, proven withdrawal in the past that can be our mindset,  but it is always a good idea to look at other things which might be causing/contributing to any issues.

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Timberline You may have increased escitalopram too much. What time o'clock do you take it, how do you feel before and after you take it?

 

Strongly recommend you get the prescription liquid so you can control your taper more precisely, or make your own liquid, see Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

[Timberline]

Hey @ChessieCat Thanks for the reminder to look at other things. I had a bunch of bloodwork done recently after having been on 5000mg vit d during Covid and my levels were still on the low level but I didn’t feel comfortable taking that dose daily so I lowered to 2000mg. I take it in the morning with breakfast. 
 

@AltostrataI was worried I increased too much so I’ve been holding at the .5mg and am definitely doing better now. It’s so tempting to want to just keep increasing when you’re feeling symptoms but I kept telling myself to give it more time. I’m glad that I did. If all remains okay as is right now, I’ll stay at this dose for 4-6 weeks before switching over to the liquid. Doc prescribed it and I have it sitting in my cabinet! 
 

My husband has been sick with a cold the last few days and has slept on the couch and I’m getting the best sleep ever. I wish I had my own bedroom during this time to retreat to as it seems the hypersensitivity to everything creates the sleep issues for me. He tosses, snores or just breathes too loudly and I’m set off into a spiral that prevents me from dozing off. I’m happy to know I *can* sleep, so long as conditions are just right☺️ Will try to get to bed before him moving forward which will hopefully help. 
 

Thanks for the suggestions and checking in! Will update as things progress!💜

[Timberline]

Hi all. Wondering if there are any suggestions for the best 1ml syringe with bottle adapter? I started the liquid lexapro but cannot find a bottle adapter to attach to the medicine bottle so that I can turn the bottle upside down when drawing back the syringe. As of now, I'm just placing the syringe in to the bottle and drawing back the liquid but this gets liquid into the tip of the syringe. I tap the air bubbles out and this lowers the level but it's quite finicky and I want to be sure I'm taking the same amount each time. I've found bottle adapters for larger syringes but not a 1ml syringe. Any advice? Thanks so much! xoxo

[Altostrata]

See Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques