Dreamer0: PAWS and constant thoughts of medication, feeling brainwashed

[Dreamer0]

Hi Everyone,

 

It has been 9 months since c/t off of stimulants, ssri’s and benzos after 18 years of use. My brain simply started rejecting the medication one day. My pupils would dilate and I felt like I was dying and would have huge panic attacks when I took the medication. I could not even do a taper due to the types of reactions I was having to even tiny amounts of the medications. I did not decide to stop, I HAD to stop. It was the scariest time in my life. I have never received an explanation for why I started experiencing such intense side effects after so many years. I’ve had numerous tests done which all came up normal, I have asked numerous doctors, therapists Etc... Sometimes I feel like it would be easier to move on if I had the answers... To this day, if there is an antidepressant commercial on tv or if I read an article on depression that suggests medication, my heart starts pounding and I start crying.  Please forgive me for not mentioning the pills by name, I feel very triggered when I do. Let’s just say it was hideous and there were many months I did not know if I would live or ever feel normal again. I am happy to say that I feel physically much better than I did 9 months ago. There have been moments and even days of feeling happy and hopeful. 

 

 My issue is that I do still struggle with some sadness and depression and that old thinking pattern of “maybe I should take something or maybe I need to be on medication, or you will never be happy” rears it’s head a lot. Despite explaining what I went through to various therapists, they always seem to say things like “well there are a lot of medications out there to try, if one didn’t work maybe another one will”. After 18 years of trying so many medications and going through horrific withdrawal, I can’t believe that I am even questioning it but I am. I feel very “brainwashed” still and insecure. It is a scary place to be; knowing I can’t go back because I literally can’t tolerate medication and also feeling scared that I will never feel truly happy. 

 

Can anyone relate? Any tips?

 

Thank you everyone, love and light to you all. 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, DreamerO.  I'm glad you're feeling better these days.

 

I don't have an answer as to why your brain started rejecting these drugs so violently after 18 years of use.  It sounds like at some point your brain had just had enough and in an act of self-preservation forced you to stop.  When the rejection of the drugs is as strong as it was in your case, we would call it an adverse reaction, rather than a side effect, though adverse reactions usually occur soon after starting the drug. It's possible you'll never know.  Other members may have some insights.

 

That old thinking pattern of "maybe I should be on drugs" puts me in mind of the concept of medication spellbinding, which occurs when you're on a drug and make every excuse for the harm the drug is causing you.  Of course, you're off the drugs, so it seems to be a sort of after-the-fact spellbinding.  You might find the works of Dr. Peter Breggin on spellbinding to be helpful in explaining your thoughts.  Here's one link.

Intoxication anosognosia: medication spellbinding (2007 ...

I do know that these drugs were never meant to be taken long-term, and, as you say, you are foreclosed from taking them in any case.  

 

These non-drug techniques may also be helpful to you as you look ahead to a drug-free life.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Gridley

[Dreamer0]

Hi everyone,

 

I originally posted this to benzo buddies and a member there recommended this site. I hope it is still applicable here. 

Like many in this community, after going through benzo withdrawal 1 year ago, I can’t tolerate antidepressants anymore. Before this nightmare I was able to take small doses of antidepressants and felt they gave me some relief from anxiety and depression but now that I can’t tolerate them at all (and I tried everything, even having them compounded into tiny doses etc). When I read about someone taking them successfully (like on social media or a celebrity or someone on a forum), I feel super upset and jealous. When I read things like “Zoloft gave me my life back, I wish I had taken it sooner” or “Prozac totally eliminated my panic attacks and now I can do anything”, I feel immensely triggered and down. Almost like there is this incredible, life changing thing that other people get to take and I can’t. I know I feel a million times better than I did when I first got off of the benzos, but I still have the anxiety and carry sadness that was there before I took anything. It’s hard to describe but I feel like I am missing out in some way because I’m not one of the SSRI success stories that I read about and it makes me feel like I will never feel great like other people do. I am even triggered being around people who take them. 

I have mentioned this to several therapists and doctors and they do not believe me and only suggest that if I feel this way then Ii should take them again. I know this is a strange rant (and filled with self pity) but I am really obsessing over it and feeling horrible about it so wanted to put it out there and see if anyone as any words for me.

Thank you 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Shep
removed background highlighting

[Shep]

@Dreamer0 Please note I merged your latest post with your existing introduction topic. Please continue posting here so all of your information is in one place.

 

Are you taking any drugs now? Please add a signature so we know your drug history. This will help us give you advice. Please see:

 

Please summarize your withdrawal history in your signature

 

On 2/3/2021 at 2:06 PM, Dreamer0 said:

When I read about someone taking them successfully (like on social media or a celebrity or someone on a forum), I feel super upset and jealous. When I read things like “Zoloft gave me my life back, I wish I had taken it sooner” or “Prozac totally eliminated my panic attacks and now I can do anything”, I feel immensely triggered and down.

 

These drugs have a placebo effect. Please see:

 

Treating Depression: Is there a placebo effect? video (14 minute)

 

Irving Kirsch: The Placebo Effect and What It Tells Us About Antidepressant Efficacy

 

I'm going to repost what Gridley posted earlier in your thread when you were here last year:

 

On 6/10/2020 at 4:21 PM, Gridley said:

You might find the works of Dr. Peter Breggin on spellbinding to be helpful in explaining your thoughts.  Here's one link.

Intoxication anosognosia: medication spellbinding (2007 ...

 

I would take anyone saying how great they feel on antidepressants with a grain of salt. It's not fixing anything. Please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

You may want to read Robert Whitaker's book:

 

Anatomy of an Epidemic

 

Scroll down and you'll find source documents linked, along with a few videos. Whitaker's work comes highly recommended here.

 

We aren't here to convince you that these drugs are good or bad. You'll have to reach the decision if these drug are right for you on your own and then travel that path. All we can do is give you information. 

 

On 2/3/2021 at 2:06 PM, Dreamer0 said:

I have mentioned this to several therapists and doctors and they do not believe me and only suggest that if I feel this way then Ii should take them again. I know this is a strange rant (and filled with self pity) but I am really obsessing over it and feeling horrible about it so wanted to put it out there and see if anyone as any words for me.

 

That's what doctors are trained to believe and to message. Have you added in any non-drug coping strategies to your daily routine? 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

[Dejavu]

@Dreamer0, I'm very sorry for the headspace you find yourself in. Maybe this is a place where you can feel more connected, since I would dare to say no one here is a supporter of these drugs! 

 

I'd like to offer you some unsolicited perspective. I am an anxious person by nature. Always have been. I can trace some of it back to childhood trauma, but my "aha moment" was when I had genetic testing done, which indicates that the gene responsible for calming my "fight or flight" response is underperforming. So now I know I've been literally wired for anxiety since birth.  

 

But here's what I also know: we can overcome our biology, and we can conquer our fears. Our brains have a marvelous way of doing that. That's what the fight of every person on this forum is about - overcoming. Whether through iatrogenic damage, conditioning (what you've come to believe about yourself), or genetics, the damage can be fixed. It takes a bloody long time to rewire a brain, but we're all betting that the changes and improvements we see along the way give us the intestinal fortitude to keep going. And it always seems to.

 

I currently see (via Zoom) a very skilled psychotherapist who believes my withdrawal issues are true. She is not a fan of psychotropic medication in general, and most importantly, she doesn't believe I should be on it. We are slowly unpacking my life, and working on CBT and visualization tools to build new and positive pathways in my brain. I had to shop awhile to find her. I would ask each potential therapist: (1) what have you heard about antidepressant withdrawal?; (2) do you believe discontinuation syndrome only lasts 4-6 weeks?; and (3) do you believe that a person with anxiety can live a full life without medication, and how confident are you in your own ability to help me facilitate that? After talking to 4 or 5 different therapists, I hit paydirt with her.

 

I don't mean to ramble on, but my point is I would urge you to do the same. Find someone who can help you address this fear you have of navigating the world unmedicated, and why you feel you cannot, because I assure you, you can. You are currently spellbound by these drugs. You see them as your only path to happiness. The fact that you cannot - and must not - ever take them again makes you feel that single path has been foreclosed, which makes you feel hopeless. I get it, and I completely sympathize. But feelings are not facts. Drugs are not your only shot at happiness (in fact, they are no shot at all). It just feels that way. And feelings can be - and are - changed. All the time.

 

You've already done an incredible amount of the work. Coming off multiple medications so quickly with relatively little withdrawal is quite a feat; one for which everyone on this forum envies you. I hope at some point you will be able to fully get your head around that. 

 

Sorry to write a novel. I just wanted to give you some support, because I fear that some members will see you as "better off" than most, when in fact, you are struggling with the same life issues we all are, just in a different form. The active moderators and mentors on this site are crazy-busy trying to help many people at once, so I wanted to offer you some peer support.

 

Normally, I would say something like "Hang in there. It gets better." But in your case, I think you need to grab the bull by the horns (as we say in Texas) and make something happen for yourself and your future. Please think about it. I'm rooting for you!

[Dreamer0]

Dejavu, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your deeply insightful and caring response. I can’t tell you how much it means to me and how helpful it is. You have given me a lot of hope.

[Dreamer0]

Also, thank you very much Shep. I appreciate you sharing those resources with me

[Shep]

You're welcome, Dreamer.

 

Are you currently still on any psychiatric drugs?

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[Dreamer0]

Hi Shep,

 

No. I have been 100 percent free of all psychiatric drugs and the birth control pill since September 2019. I also stopped alcohol in January 2020 (it was only moderate drinking but I was worried it was impeding recovery).  It took me one solid year to feel somewhat normal. I’ve gone from total agoraphobia, constant dizziness, brain fog, dp/dr, massive depression, no demotivation, trouble sleeping, to feeling “pretty good” today. I’m just struggling with this last bit of obsession with the drugs and some residual depression and anxiety and constant, incessant thinking. There were many years where I could control how I felt every single day with adderall, an ssri (switched types over the years) and ativan. I felt like I could do anything on those drugs (and get through any of life’s challenges) for a long time until I couldn’t. It is a very different animal dealing with life without the buffers. In any event, I am healthier than I have ever been but just lacking confidence, motivation and as Dejavu pointed out, it’s just strange navigating the world unmedicated and it is still very new to me. While I am no longer agoraphobic, my life is still quite small and I am not exactly travelling the world and meeting new people like I was on the drugs (pandemic aside). I wish I could get that back on my own.  I am very grateful to be free of the prison I was in and those miserable pills, just want to forget about them and move on. I read your success story all the time and it helps to motivate me. I worry about things like “will I ever be able to get on a plane again”? Or “will I ever feel confident and happy?”. I used medication to travel etc... I love travelling and worry I’ll never be able to get on a plane again. I suppose I used it for everything and as good as I feel today, I still feel “different” and less confident. I have been in therapy and it has been helpful but I can’t afford it anymore and I feel I have gained about as much as I can from it (twice per week for a year). As Dejavu put it, it feels like it’s time for me to grab the bull my the horns. I’m not sure if this is common but I don’t really feel like myself. This feeling is MUCH better than it was a year ago. 

 

 A year ago I would have given anything to feel as healthy and clear headed as I do today and yet it’s somehow not good enough. Despite my complaining,  what I know for sure is that being completely off of all psychiatric drugs is the right choice for me. Just hope I can “get that” on a deeper level and move on. I just feel filled with doubt when I realize how much society forces these drugs on people and there is always this nagging voice inside me that says “well if you were on adderall you would be a better student and have more confidence” or “if you were on an ssri you wouldn’t cry so much, and you would feel happier and more level”. After what I went through on these drugs, none of this thinking makes sense. Must be the spellbinding 

 

Thank you for reading this, I know it was long and a bit of a rant. 

[Shep]

15 hours ago, Dreamer0 said:

I have been in therapy and it has been helpful but I can’t afford it anymore and I feel I have gained about as much as I can from it (twice per week for a year).

 

Therapy is mainly meant to adjust you to the toxic world around you. Right now, you're in that post-zero stage where you're struggling to navigate the world around you because you haven't fully healed, but you've see the world in a way others haven't. In other words, you likely know more than your therapist (and most therapists). 

 

The self-doubt will fade out as you go out into the world and have more experiences. Those experiences won't erase the memories of withdrawal, but it will fill up your brain with better and better memories that will occupy you. In other words, you'll leave the world of withdrawal behind you and go out to have a much better life off of these drugs. I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to analyze where you're at right now. The best is yet to come. 

 

Recovery is a process, not an event. And it sounds like you're getting closer and closer to a success story. 

 

BTW, are you familiar with the Mad in America site? You might enjoy some of the articles there. One of the best writers I've found there by far is Dr. Phil Hickey. He's one of the few therapists out there that really gets it when it comes to the suffering caused by these drugs. Here is an archive of his writings: 

 

Mad in America - Philip Hickey, PhD archives

 

 

[Ariel]

Hi @Dreamer0

Nice to meet you. Congratulations on being drug-free! For about 2.5 years now, going by your signature. Yes?

It's been a while since you posted here in your intro thread. I'd love to read an update if you feel like sharing. No presh. 

I appreciate what you've shared thus far, a lot of what you write resonates with me.

Kudos to you on how far you've come. 

A.

 

[Dreamer0]

Hi Ariel,

 

Thank you for your reply and your congrats- congrats to you too!! I am still med free and to be honest, I’m feeling pretty great! It has really taken me up until this point to feel good. I’m sleeping well, I have energy, ability to concentrate, experiencing joy and excitement, stress tolerance, no brain fog or dizziness, and loads of hope for the future. Now that I’m not feeling the effects of the withdrawal anymore I have been able to concentrate on rebuilding. I have learned ways of dealing with my difficult emotions and panic/anxiety and that has been very empowering. Placed on these drugs at such a young age meant that I had zero coping skills and lived in constant fear of my own emotions. My life has been filled with stress lately and guess what? I’m dealing with it just fine! 

 

The only thing that seems to trip me up is when I hear somebody saying how great they feel on meds. How adderall helps them concentrate (adderall was the hardest thing for me to give up) or how happy they are and how they wished they had taken the meds sooner. As great as I am feeling there is always that thought in the back of my head that maybe I could feel a little bit better, be happier, concentrate more, do more things/go more places and so hearing the raving reviews about drugs is still very triggering.  Especially because I am still doing less in some ways than I was on the antidepressant, adderall and benzos (I was travelling, flying all over the world etc) and I still don’t feel quite strong enough to do those things yet. My withdrawal was so brutal and went on for years (felt like I was living on a different planet for two years)  so this type of thinking is really unproductive. 

 

How are you feeling and how are you doing?

[Ariel]

Heya @Dreamer0

This is such awesome news! YAY!! Thank you so much for sharing your update. 

I am delighted for you. Not only have you healed from withdrawal, it sounds like you have worked hard to learn coping skills for drug-free life. I can't imagine a greater achievement. Congratulations, well done!

 

1 hour ago, Dreamer0 said:

Placed on these drugs at such a young age

 

How old were you when you were put on medication? I can't tell from your thread (maybe I missed it). 

 

1 hour ago, Dreamer0 said:

As great as I am feeling there is always that thought in the back of my head that maybe I could feel a little bit better, be happier, concentrate more, do more things/go more places and so hearing the raving reviews about drugs is still very triggering.

 

I hear you. I feel that way sometimes, too, especially about certain specific meds I've taken in the past that seemed to work for me at the time. I guess it's a kind of normal fantasizing -- I mean, if it weren't so common to want a quick/easy fix, these pills would never have been so successful in the first place! Life is hard, being confronted with limitations can be tough to accept, of course we are wont to dream of "if only" scenarios. In addition, you write that you started on meds at a young age, and you were on them for 18 years; this may contribute to a sort of habitual thinking, just a neural pathway shortcut tantamount to "reach for the pill". A lot of us have that, I think, both those who still take meds and those who don't. It's cool that you're so honest about it. The longer you live and thrive drug-free, and the more time you spend being present with your unmedicated self, connecting in organic nourishing self-relationship, the less those automatic responses will trigger you. Eventually they'll dissipate. I believe so. 

 

1 hour ago, Dreamer0 said:

Now that I’m not feeling the effects of the withdrawal anymore I have been able to concentrate on rebuilding. I have learned ways of dealing with my difficult emotions and panic/anxiety and that has been very empowering. Placed on these drugs at such a young age meant that I had zero coping skills and lived in constant fear of my own emotions. My life has been filled with stress lately and guess what? I’m dealing with it just fine! 

 

You are such a rock star. This is more inspiring and encouraging than I can express. You're my hero!

Thanks so much for taking the time to post an update. I feel like I'm on a vicarious high. It really means so much to hear from someone who's made it through. Maybe one day when you're ready you might consider writing a success story for the recovery forum? I know I'm not the only one who'd love to read it. 

Mad props, and keep up the good work! 

Gratitude and respect, 

A.

 

 

[Ariel]

Hi @Dreamer0

How are you going?

Thinking of you <3

[Dreamer0]

Hi Ariel,

 

Thank you for sweet message! The last few months have been very hard as both my father and sister passed away within two months of eachother (my Dad in late May and then my sister in mid July). As devastating as these two tragedies have been, I can honestly say that neither has been as bad as what I went through during withdrawal. I am so grateful to have been where I was in recovery so that I could process the grief and do everything that needed doing without absolutely falling apart. Drug free is the way to be.

 

How are you? How has everything been going?

[Ariel]

Hi @Dreamer0

I'm so sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you. 

I cannot imagine what you're going through.

Holding space for your experience <3

A.