Sparrow: trouble w/multiple drug withdrawals

[Skyler]

A line drive across the kitchen table...landed open face and stuck to her chest. She peeled it off, put it back together and set it on a napkin as if nothing happened. Not a word was spoken. Hmmm...wonder how I ended up on drugs?!?!

 

Oh, nooooo. WOW!

[areyouthere]

A line drive across the kitchen table...landed open face and stuck to her chest. She peeled it off, put it back together and set it on a napkin as if nothing happened. Not a word was spoken. Hmmm...wonder how I ended up on drugs?!?!

 

Not ONE word???? Ha! Sounds like emotions were off limits / didn't talk about them?

 

For a minute I thought you were going to say she put it back together and ate it!!!

[Barbarannamated]

Not ONE word???? Ha! Sounds like emotions were off limits / didn't talk about them?

For a minute I thought you were going to say she put it back together and ate it!!!

 

Not a word! I describe the full story in Toxic Family, April 2 post.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1294-toxic-family/page__st__40

 

Sorry to hijack, Sparrow!

[Nikki]

 

I never had an aggressive tendency prior to withdrawal. The worst I did was throw a ham sandwich at my mother. With mustard. I have very good aim when angry. I should have thrown more ham sandwiches and stayed off drugs.

 

So where did it land?

 

 

This was just too funny :D

[Sparrow]

All are welcome to throw sandwiches in this thread!

 

I think I'm going to have to see a doctor. I've got an infected hangnail or something; the tip of my finger is huge, swollen, and exquisitely painful. Have been soaking it in hot water and Epsom salts for three days now, but it refuses to drain. Feels like every nerve in my body has been redirected to the one fingertip.

 

Not sure whether to contact PCP or dermatologist. If I had access to novocaine I swear I'd do it myself -- that's how much I do not want to deal with a doctor.

 

Sparrow

[Brandy]

Sparrow , please get that finger treated right away if it's that bad. Call your PCP's office first thing and ask if they can squeeze you in today, or whether you need to see a dermatologist (or go to urgent care?) instead.

 

Don't forget you've learned a lot about dealing with doctors.

 

This time you'll go armed with a sandwich.

[Brandy]

If they try to treat it with a psych med - or if they have "Jungle Boogie" playing in the waiting room...

 

... USE the sandwich.

 

Not a jury in the world would convict you.

[Sparrow]

I went to the urgent care place as my doctor apparently no longer does surgical drainage at her office. Got three injections of some -caine or other (ow) and rxs for Bactrim and Ultram, neither of which I intend to fill. Swelling is gone. Will continue to soak, etc. Wow typing is hard, can't wait for this stuff to wear off.

 

Sp.

[Barbarannamated]

Glad you got it taken care of, Sparrow. Fingertips are highly innervated - ouch, indeed!

 

Perhaps a topical OTC antibiotic?

 

Ultram seems like quite a big gun. Doc trying to stay away from traditional opiates and giving "safe" SNRI..? Argh!

[Brandy]

Hi, sparrow - I'm so glad too that you got it taken care of. I'll bet it was ouch. You're brave! (Really.)

 

I just wanted to give a hearty second to Barb's suggestion of a topical antibiotic cream or ointment.

 

I generally greatly prefer natural remedies (and am highly overreactive to most meds, especially after my too-fast paxil taper, but to some extent even before). BUT I am never without Neosporin ointment. (I use the regular original kind.) I have absolutely no associations with the company, but I use the brand product, not the generics. (Generics have the same active ingredients and would work, but there really seems to be something special with the bland base in the brand-name ointment - it has cocoa butter and things more than vaseline-type stuff, and I really think it makes a difference in how well it works.)

 

I rely on it so much I even carry some in my tote bag when I'm out. I've never had a side effect from it, and it treats and also prevents infection. I think I've been able to avoid more toxic treatments by using it.

 

(btw, there are more powerful antibiotic ointments that are prescription only. The one time I got a really bad skin infection that wouldn't heal with neosporin (for over a year!) I went to my dermatologist, who is terrific, and he prescribed a special strong one that got rid of it. I was still in bad w/d at that time, but although theoretically a bit would have gotten into me through the skin, I had absolutely no problems from it either. Just mentioning that in case you need any followup care from docs.)

 

Also, if you find you need ultram briefly, you might do fine with just a fraction of a tablet. I wouldn't have touched it post-paxil, but while I was still on paxil I took courses of it at various times with no problems - probably because I was on a lower dose than usual of paxil (15 mg/day). Ironically I didn't get hyperreactive to those things until I went off the paxil (so fast it was a "virtual cold-turkey"). While still on paxil, I was okay with it.

 

But that's just if the pain is unbearable. I'd really recommend the topical antibiotic like Barb suggested to facilitate faster and more complete healing, though.

[Barbarannamated]

I just wanted to clarify my thought on Ultram. It is a confusing drug, sometimes called an opiate and other times referred to as an SNRI, cousin of Effexor. My understandingvis that it has all properties: serotonergic, noradrenergic, and opiate. When it first came to market, it was thought to be "nonaddictive" and NOT an opiate. Safe because of the SNRI properties. It has very complicated metabolism.

 

I have stated this many times before... I feel that opiates are far less problematic than SS/NRIs. Ive withdrawn from both and opiate withdrawal was a nonevent for me.

 

I just wanted to clarify my thought on previous statement about Ultram/tramadol. It is the serotonergic component that I have a problem with. It also didnt work for pain for me. A traditional opiate prn for pain makes better sense especially in those of us sensitized to serotonin.

[Rhiannon]

I just wanted to clarify my thought on Ultram. It is a confusing drug, sometimes called an opiate and other times referred to as an SNRI, cousin of Effexor. My understandingvis that it has all properties: serotonergic, noradrenergic, and opiate. When it first came to market, it was thought to be "nonaddictive" and NOT an opiate. Safe because of the SNRI properties. It has very complicated metabolism.

 

I have stated this many times before... I feel that opiates are far less problematic than SS/NRIs. Ive withdrawn from both and opiate withdrawal was a nonevent for me.

 

I just wanted to clarify my thought on previous statement about Ultram/tramadol. It is the serotonergic component that I have a problem with. It also didnt work for pain for me. A traditional opiate prn for pain makes better sense especially in those of us sensitized to serotonin.

 

This is one of my rant-provoking subjects. (There may be flying sandwiches as well.) There's such a huge paranoia now about giving opiates even for logical uses at moderate levels to patients who have never shown any signs of abusing them, that doctors give out more dangerous drugs that don't work nearly as well for pain.

 

NSAIDs can cause all kinds of problems (gastric erosion, kidney failure for example) but docs will hand them out like candy even for pain that's not primarily caused by inflammation. But if you ask for Vicodin instead they treat you like you're a heroin addict. Drives me nuts.

 

It's the same as the paranoia about Valium, which got a bad reputation due to media coverage but is actually no more addictive than Xanax and much easier to taper off of.

 

I swear, doctors think they're so logical and on top of things, when really so much of what they "know" is just the medical version of urban legend. Sigh...

[Barbarannamated]

 

I just wanted to clarify my thought on Ultram. It is a confusing drug, sometimes called an opiate and other times referred to as an SNRI, cousin of Effexor. My understandingvis that it has all properties: serotonergic, noradrenergic, and opiate. When it first came to market, it was thought to be "nonaddictive" and NOT an opiate. Safe because of the SNRI properties. It has very complicated metabolism.

 

I have stated this many times before... I feel that opiates are far less problematic than SS/NRIs. Ive withdrawn from both and opiate withdrawal was a nonevent for me.

 

I just wanted to clarify my thought on previous statement about Ultram/tramadol. It is the serotonergic component that I have a problem with. It also didnt work for pain for me. A traditional opiate prn for pain makes better sense especially in those of us sensitized to serotonin.

 

This is one of my rant-provoking subjects. (There may be flying sandwiches as well.) There's such a huge paranoia now about giving opiates even for logical uses at moderate levels to patients who have never shown any signs of abusing them, that doctors give out more dangerous drugs that don't work nearly as well for pain.

 

NSAIDs can cause all kinds of problems (gastric erosion, kidney failure for example) but docs will hand them out like candy even for pain that's not primarily caused by inflammation. But if you ask for Vicodin instead they treat you like you're a heroin addict. Drives me nuts.

 

It's the same as the paranoia about Valium, which got a bad reputation due to media coverage but is actually no more addictive than Xanax and much easier to taper off of.

 

I swear, doctors think they're so logical and on top of things, when really so much of what they "know" is just the medical version of urban legend. Sigh...

 

THANK YOU, RHI!!

 

This issue sends me thru the roof on a daily basis as husband's current work has him targeting "opiate overprescribers" in Occupational Medicine/Work Comp (ie. Legitimate pain patients). The "evidence based guidelines" now recommend use of SNRIs across thee board for chronic pain patients in order to avoid the "addiction of opiates". My pain management doc is a thought leader in that world and major contributor to guidelines. When he and my hubby start into a discussion of opiate abuse, I have to zone out or leave the room. Im not strong enough at this point to take on two of them.

By reading this forum, on might assume that SS/NRI prescribing is ddecreasing, but I think it is still on the increase due to expanding uses, especially chronic pain and women's hormonal issues.

 

I've wanted to discuss the opiate issue but dont want to lead anyone down a bad path. My feeling is that pharma had a hand in vilifying opiates as addictive because they can be used prn and are not profitable. They are pushing drug regimens that are "daily/maintenance/preventive" because there is far more profit. Even hubby admits that it is very rare to find true chronic pain patients who become addicted to opiates. DEPENDENT, yes. I will credit my psychiatrist with admitting that opiates have antidepressant properties for some people. This is separate and independent of pain relieving properties. (And THAT is the slippery slope I dont want to go down in a discussion).

 

Thanks again, Rhi. I greatly appreciate and respect your input.

[Sparrow]

I had the best two weeks ever last year following my hysterectomy, when I was taking hydrocodone. It completely zapped the depression, anxiety, apathy, anhedonia... didn't make me 'high', just felt like a Normal Human Being.

 

Sparrow

[Sparrow]

Had to have my beloved 15-year-old Tigger put to sleep yesterday. I need to cry, long and deeply, but it won't come.

 

After a month-long hold, I've resumed the clonazepam taper. My sx are all over the place and it's hard to say whether the hold was beneficial or not.

 

I continue to feel utterly disconnected from everything and everyone. I have no life, no friends, no work, no skills, and absolutely no interest in anything. All I do is sit and wait for it to be "nap time" (in quotes because there's little actual sleep involved). After that I sit and wait for it to be bedtime. The bald truth is I'm just sitting around waiting to die. Looks like it's going to be a long wait. Where's that lung cancer I've been promised for being a lifelong smoker? Bring it. I'm ready.

 

Great. My mom just called wanting to talk about how great my sister's kids are. It did not go well.

[Barbarannamated]

Sparrow,

 

I'm so sorry about Tigger. I know how important pets are. Oftentimes, i feel my animals keep me alive.

 

Your posts always hit home with me. People say "well at least you don't have cancer" and I think how good it would feel to have an understandable illness, a prognosis, an end in sight..

 

I wish I had something profound to offer, but I can only say "I get it... I know what you speak of".

 

Hugs, my friend.

B

[Altostrata]

So sorry about Tigger, Sparrow.

[areyouthere]

My thoughts are with you Sparrow. People just don't know how precious our pets are to our psyche. I dread the day our little Buster is gone.

Hugs.

[Sparrow]

So yay, BBT season premier tonight. Something I'm actually looking forward to (what an odd sensation). Mr. Sparrow and I will mark the occasion with Thai take-out.

 

Awfully quiet around here with only one cat. We've had to say goodbye to three dear kitties since 2008.

 

I swept/vacuumed all the floors this morning and am totally wiped out. My "nap" only yielded a few snatches of the usual hover sleep, though.

 

My god the days are so long.

[Barbarannamated]

My favorite show, too. Thanks for the alert, Sparrow.

 

Enjoy your evening. Sounds nice.

 

B

[Sparrow]

A milestone of sorts: today I'm down to 0.05 mg clonazepam, one-tenth of my original starting dose after almost 11 months of tapering. As ridiculous as it may seem, I plan to continue tapering all the way down to zero. Barring any holds I should be done around the first of the year.

 

The last couple of months have been really rough. Even at this tee-tiny little dose. Incredible.

 

Generally speaking, my physical symptoms have abated, and I'm getting a good 6 1/2 hours of sleep at night for which I am truly grateful. But the dark horror inside -- the fear, despair, MAJOR existential angst -- continues to roll over me in intense waves lasting for days. When I have to go out, I can, and it's easier than it used to be, but I still avoid it whenever possible.

 

As usual, I keep typing and deleting and don't know what I want to say or how to say it. Ugh.

 

Sparrow

[Barbarannamated]

{{{HUGS}}}

[Barbarannamated]

{{{HUGS}}}

 

I apologize, the HUG was all I could manage earlier, Sparrow.

 

GOOD to hear you are down to 0.05mg clonazepam! I'm cheering you on!!

 

EXISTENTIAL ANGST... care to discuss this?? This is BY FAR my biggest challenge. GPS keeps spinning, trying to find a signal.

 

B

[Altostrata]

Sparrow, you express yourself beautifully.

 

As for the waves -- all you can do is keep on keeping on. They'll gradually go away.

 

Could it be this is time for a hold on the tapering?

[Sparrow]

Today marks one full year since I began my benzo taper. I've been holding at 0.04 mg clonazepam for the past few weeks and will not resume tapering until after the holidays.

 

I'm clearly doing much better than I was, but am still far from being well and fully functional. I have gained 10 pounds this year and lost a great deal of my hair. I can dash out for quick errands around my small town, but that's it. Anything outside the tiny radius of my "safe zone" happens without me. I'm mostly comfortable being around my husband. Anyone else, including my college-aged sons, is extremely difficult.

 

Doing better with basic activities of daily living. Most days I can make myself get cleaned up and dressed. I'm able to do more cooking/food prep and regular, if rather minimal, housekeeping.

 

Sleep continues to hold steady at about six hours per night. I "nap" for a couple of hours every afternoon, although it's more about breaking up the long empty day than actually sleeping, which hardly ever happens.

 

I remain hypersensitive to all sensory stimuli, particularly light and sound. My startle reflex is still hair-trigger and pretty extreme. Temperature disregulation continues; I'm always freezing or boiling.

 

Bored and lonely, but don't want to do anything or be around people. Still avoid using the telephone. Still paralyzed by inertia. Feeling very keenly the horror of being a physically unattractive 50-something ex-stay-at-home-mom: completely invisible, marginalized, purposeless. I don't fit anywhere, I don't "belong." This is not really anything new; I've been a socially awkward nerd since childhood. And I live in an area that does not suffer liberal/feminist/atheist types gladly (or at all, really). Always the misfit, am I.

 

And anhedonia. Always the freaking anhedonia. About the only thing that sparks a feeling of pleasure is holding and petting my little cat.

 

But the cortisol mornings and all-day twitching anxiety are gone. The days I can't/won't/don't get out of bed are much fewer and farther apart. The ThoughtsThatMustNotBeNamed come less frequently. I've even managed to cut back some on my cigarette smoking.

 

So that's the way things stand after a year. I will pick up the taper in January and crawl my way off this last teeny bit. My ultimate goal of getting off the final drug (Lexapro) remains, but 2013 is not going to be the year for that.

 

Sparrow

[Barbarannamated]

Sparrow! This is a GREAT update!! I'm thrilled that you are seeing improvement (and on a selfish note, it gives me hope).

 

Thank you so much for this update. The way you write and explain where you're at in contrast to where you were is VERY helpful.

 

May I ask why it's difficult to be around your sons? I'm trying to make sense of this confusing combination of feeling lonely yet not being comfortable with most people.

 

You made my day.

 

B

[Sparrow]

Hi Barb. My relationship with each of my sons is somewhat strained and has been for several years. That's about all I can say here.

 

I'm glad I made your day! I rarely have that effect on people these days...

 

Sparrow

[alexjuice]

Hi Sparrow,

 

I'd like to congratulate you for coming so far, even if you don't feel like it's time for any congratulations.

 

Very few people will ever know what it is like to be on the sum of drugs you took and even fewer will experience the problems and tortures of getting off of them. You've come a very long way and possess a greater endurance than most.

 

I looked through your thread. You do a terrific job of expressing yourself and I relate to so much of what you say. Right now I alternate waiting to die, with cooking some food. I am quite isolated living with one other person (in my case a parent) and seeing few others.

 

Someone back in the thread, Rhi I think, emphasized the magnitude of effects of taking and stopping multiple medications, to the degree you have. I hope you internalize this. It's a big deal to get off so many meds and allow you system to recalibrate.

 

Since this is not your fault and since it is a very long, hellish journey you're now own. I hope you take a moment and give yourself a break.... or let someone like me give you one for you. You didn't want this or cause it. That doesn't mean you're not doing a great job. This is hard and you are doing a great job in a bad circumstance that you do not deserve.

 

Hang in there.

 

Alex

 

PS - Also, do you ever make fresh ginger tea... peel and slice ginger root and boil? ... I've found it, as well as homemade chicken broth, to be very helpful in grounding me, reducing anxiety and short-circuiting negative thinking. I don't know if it will help, but thought I'd mention.

[Sparrow]

Hi Alex. I've used ginger in capsules (for nausea, works great), but have not tried ginger tea. There actually a jar of pre-grated fresh ginger in the fridge -- wonder if I could use that for the tea.

 

Your post was so very kind and encouraging. Printing it out now for future mood-lifting. Thank you!

 

Sparrow

[Sparrow]

I guess hell froze over today, because I actually got off my ass and went for A WALK. A whole third of a mile maybe. My legs are all quivery now and my heart is really thumping. It felt weird being outdoors.

 

The holidays were awful but I'm free for another year now. Not doing well. I do not know how to fill my time or construct a purpose for whatever remains of this life. I do not want to be around people, ever. Don't want to talk to or interact in any way with anyone, barring my husband, and that's only because he lives here. I've always been a loner pretty much, and withdrawal seems to have really cemented it. I have no capacity (or desire?) for emotional connection. I have literally nothing to do except for cooking and cleaning, and most of the time I blow that off too.

 

The world that comes to me via the Internet, the TV, and the radio seems quite strange and remote.

 

It's 5:30 p.m....only four and half more hours until I can go get in bed again.

[Karma]

Hi Sparrow,

 

Good for you getting out and taking a walk today ... that is progress even if it doesn't feel like it.

 

I think it is very normal to go into a "cave" mode when healing from the effects of all of these drugs. I think we withdraw from the world and focus on our own healing ... interacting with others takes energy away from our healing so we avoid it.

 

Wishing you healing and motivation in the new year.

 

Love and light

Karma

[alexjuice]

Hang in there Sparrow. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, focusing on each single step.

 

I'm sorry it's tough right now. It's great that you took a walk. I think it's okay to be sad adn angry and uncertain. But try to not give up. Only you can give yourself permission to heal.

 

best,

Alex

[Sparrow]

"Mr. Sparrow" and I were married 31 years ago today. I'm looking at the pictures and trying to remember what it felt like to be 21, madly in love, with all of life still ahead of me.

 

He is my rock, steady and unwavering in the face of all we've been through. I would not have survived these past few years if not for his devotion, encouragement, and support. He deserved far better than what he got in me as a life partner.

 

I'm a lucky girl and need to spend more time in gratitude for this immeasurable blessing.

 

Sparrow

[dalsaan]

Congratulations to you and Mr Sparrow. That's a wonderful achievement. Having a rock is a real blessing. Ive got one myself but we are only at the 8 year mark.

 

I hope 2013 brings you better health and happiness x

[peggy]

Congrats Sparrow to you and Mr Sparrow - we celebrated 30 years in 2012 - I too am blessed with a rock!

 

Here's to another 30 years!

[strawberry17]

Just read your thread Sparrow, congratulations to you and Mr Sparrow, 31 years is a tremendous achievement, and going out for that walk.

I count myself extremely lucky to have a rock in my life as well for 23 years. Rocks are a mahusive blessing.

I am in awe of how far you have come with your multiple drug withdrawals and angry on your behalf that this happened to you.