Cam5 st johns taper advice?

[Cam5]

this is pretty mild but unfortunately the brand works similar to an ssri and then some I think, whereas another brand works with upregulation of a certain receptor I think, but I guess the jury is out on the chemical balance. maybe someone here can confirm or deny that.

 

i need to taper off it as with using it as I am noticing sexual side effects, with this strain at least (pretty sure there are two), I know this seems like ridiculously mild compared to "real" AD discontinuation suffers but help me out with this.

 

i am at 200mg for 2 days now, i don't know how to progress I don't wanna keep taking it due to the sexual issues that could last but jumping straight off it might cause the sexual issues in the first place right? need ideas, the taper forum I can't post in. thanks, and redirect if I need to.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Cam and welcome to SA,

 

Even though St John's Wort is a natural supplement is does work in a similar way to some antidepressants.  That being the case if you have been on if for any length of time then it would be better to taper it.

 

If you are able to get the previous type that you were taking, I think that it would be better to switch back to that ASAP before your brain adapts too much to the current type.  I am unable to find any information about the half life of SJW, but for ADs that have about a 24 hour half life it takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level/strength in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Q:  Have you ever taken a prescription psychiatric drug?

 

Please create your drug signature and include ALL drugs and supplements following these instructions:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

I will give you the antidepressant tapering information as well as the links to the St John's Wort topics.  You might be able to taper faster than the 10% rate, however, just like we do with tapering a prescription antidepressant, you will need to listen to your body/symptoms and hold for longer on a dose if you have withdrawal symptoms.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

tapering-st-johns-wort

 

st-johns-wort-hypericum-perforatum

 

This is your own Introduction topic which is the best place to ask questions about your own situation and where you can journal your progress.

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Cam5 said:

but I guess the jury is out on the chemical balance. maybe someone here can confirm or deny that.

 

Chemical imbalance was a theory and it was debunked at least 20 years ago.

 

again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

 

[Cam5]

yeah like it may have some impact on mood positively but honestly I literally have ED on it and mild penile densenzitivity, which honestly seems kinda uncommon. i am very in the middle whether or not to keep taking it before it has an impact on my receptors too much. i'm just naturally worried the effects will last if i keep on taking it or don't taper. thanks for the info though. didn't put much of a signature as it doesn't apply, never really taken any minus mirtazapine once which had really bad symptoms the following day so I stopped, and also ED. gut instinct is to stop/taper.

 

I may try the ze 117 brand in the future as it is apparently good for sexual health and anhedonia (applies to me) anyway, this one is from herbalstore I am unable to find the hypercin vs. hyperforin info online so I figured it's mix which ain't what I want. any info on whether hypercin actually works for anhedonia and sexual issues? looked online barely found out.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Cam5. Have you been taking St. John's Wort only 2 days? You could just stop it.

 

St. John's Wort is an MAOI. A brand change will not change its effect.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

Strongly recommend you pursue non-drug techniques to address your anhedonia. There is no free lunch with antidepressants.

[Cam5]

Nah it was 7 days low dose, currently on 1 pill, with extra advice from someone on reddit, think I could take a half today then be done tomorrow. I feel in the middle, as some people like cured their pssd (I don't have that but I am noticing symptoms which is why I want off) with st johns wort but I fear continuing it for a month is gonna make a change in my receptors. Taking it under 4 days I can report works as a mild serotonin booster like 5htp, taking it longer it is an MAOI like you said, but also a mild ssri/dopamine-reuptake. Reading about anhedonia, i think time and abstinence from everything is best, gives the receptors and sert/dat and all that, time to recover normally, spiking neurotransmitters or keeping them in synaptic clefts for longer is probably going to make it worse. The goal of st johns was, to upregulate 5ht1a/2a, I am using that herbalstore brand, not the ze 117/hypericum extract maybe at a future date I'll give it a shot with more good/bad experiences, but I think this one is more hyperforin which is more ssri like. I feel, just feel it has potential to do something but I do not know enough about neuro to be sure. 

 

"There is no free lunch with antidepressants." sounds about right. there are things such as lions mane (bdnf) which I am looking into, that one should be safe, issue is I can't like "run it through my doctor" because doctors don't and can't know the mechanisms of every single thing.

[ChessieCat]

Please add the dates for both mirtazapine and St John's Wort in your signature - thank you:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

13 hours ago, Cam5 said:

there are things such as lions mane (bdnf) which I am looking into, that one should be safe

 

You cannot assume that something will be safe for you.  Especially if you have previously had a bad reaction to other things that you have tried.

 

There are many existing topics on SA.  Use a search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

From the documented experience of members who have had a bad reaction to a drug or supplement, generally it is better to leave well enough alone and not continue trying to actively fix things but to give your brain time to recover homeostasis, which  is in fact doing something even though it does not feel like it.  Continuing to tinker with things may make things worse and / or make the recovery time longer.

 

Please see these about adverse reaction to a drug but is also applicable to supplements:

 

But I only took it for a Week

 

immediate-adverse-reactions-to-an-antidepressant-or-within-a-few-doses-how-long-for-recovery

 

Please note that SA is a site for tapering / withdrawal of psychiatric drugs.  We do not counsel about what other drugs / supplements you could try.  There are other internet sites which may be more suitable if you are want information about experimenting with different things.

[Cam5]

Ouch people got PAWS from a few doses? Scary stuff. 0.5mg of st johns yesterday, as per advice here and also reddit tapering is best but really it's probably best to get off it within the two week mark, so today I'll stop taking it, unless I get a negative reaction but from such a low dose I doubt it.

edit: I don't really care about from-the-bottom-dose withdrawal symptoms that will likely be very mild, I care more about this penile sensitivity coming back, sure it will though... A report online says someone got sexual dysfunction from it used for a month, then, shortly after everything returned to normal. 

[Cam5]

11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You cannot assume that something will be safe for you.  Especially if you have previously had a bad reaction to other things that you have tried.

 

it's just like, this is true, although I think I'd rather go the supplement neurogenesis route than the AD route thinking about it. isn't say cordyceps meant to upregulate d2 dopamine receptors for long term pleasure?

Anyway, honestly so far I have spoke to many people online, on the FB group, reddit, elsewhere, read everywhere, and talked to like 6 doctors. Almost every doctor never heard of anhedonia in the context of absence of low mood, they lump me into the depression category, maybe its straw-picking but it feels like it's separate, be kinda bad if it was an easily resolvable thing and got worse from taking some other AD. There are a few ADs (that seems more dopamine related) that have worked for some, but others got it even worse/less resolvable than I have.

 

Had this for like on off 2 years now. The way I can best describe it is feeling like their is poor transmission/lack of activity within the reward system, lack of activity on the receiving end of dopamine (receptors, I also have lack of pleasure from org*sm I know they are connected). Wonder what I can make of that, I know there is a way out but it isn't so easy.

[ChessieCat]

10 hours ago, Cam5 said:

Ouch people got PAWS from a few doses?

 

They had an adverse reaction which took a long time to resolve.

 

Even though the symptoms are similar, adverse reaction and PAWS are different because of the cause.  Adverse reaction is reacting badly to the drug.  PAWS is generally caused by withdrawing the drug too quickly.

[Cam5]

I know it's only been a day, but I've been feeling a lil disconnected from my body the past several hours, hope it doesn't last, because I know that is one of the symptoms of (it could still be a mild ssri) drug withdrawal or after effects.