Sally3: Prozac and Klonopin

[Sally3]

Thank you Altostrato...will do what you said - and hold for a month or two. Hope to see some relief soon...been holding since I first wrote to you...

Sally3

will be in touch as time goes on - appreciate your help!

[Altostrata]

Sally, you had decided to hold on tapering everything for a month or two to give your nervous system a chance to recover.

 

Did you change your mind?

[Sally3]

Altostrato - NoI haven't changed my mind - just trying to understand what I am doing - now that I have the 1 ml syringe and am staying where I am, I just want to understand where I am.....and from what you have told me in my other post - I am at 8 mg of Prozac a day and that is where I am staying until the end of July. If I see no stability by then, I will resume my tapering, if you think that is wise. I feel that after almost two months of staying @ 8 Mg with no stability, then my body is trying to tell me that it hates those 8 mg of Prozac and I will start tapering again. Does that sound good to you?

Thanks so much for checking in with me. Appreciate it!

Sally3

[Altostrata]

I don't think it's your body telling you it hates Prozac. You hate Prozac!

 

I think the symptoms are the accumulated effect of benzo withdrawal and Prozac tapering on top of that.

 

Please give it a couple of months and see if your symptoms get better.

[Sally3]

Hi - I have been holding now for almost two weeks - nothing has really changed....I am still getting windows and waves - the waves are horrible....but what I want to know is how long do I stay here. Do I absolutely wait until I stabilize? What if I never stabilize and just go on like this for months and months. I am down to 8 mg of Prozac and holding....how long do I hold?

I was planning on holding until the end of July - that will be approx. six weeks of holding. Is that long enough? It's in my signature but I will restate it - I am also 22 months off of Klonopin and started tapering the prozac one year after the benzo was ended.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

Thank you!

Sally3

[Sally3]

Can anyone please give me some encouragement as related to my previous post....about stabilizing. I am so afraid that I will not stabilize - so far no improvements...and it's been two weeks...very discouraged and very very depressed....please help...

Sally3

[Skyler]

Can anyone please give me some encouragement as related to my previous post....about stabilizing. I am so afraid that I will not stabilize - so far no improvements...and it's been two weeks...very discouraged and very very depressed....please help...

Sally3

 

Sally.. I'm really sorry you are having such a hard time, but it's hard to give you real support without your history. I just went into your profile to pick up your intro thread, and you have several started, so I'm going to respond to this message there to keep it together. ~S

[Skyler]

I cut and pasted 3 related messages below that were in other threads posted by Sally..

 

Hello - I am deep in depression right now. I am tapering off my Prozac - have been doing so for a year, while also still going through some w/d from fast tapering off of Klonopin. I had some depression during this time...but was willing to keep fighting through. I am getting more and more depressed, which I imagine might be because I am coming off of 20 years of Prozac use. But how do I know if this is the case, or if I really NEED to be on the Prozac...or maybe another anti-depressant So reaady to give in and give up....any thoughts on any of this....any advice?

Thanks for listening

Sally3

Hi - I have been holding now for almost two weeks - nothing has really changed....I am still getting windows and waves - the waves are horrible....but what I want to know is how long do I stay here. Do I absolutely wait until I stabilize? What if I never stabilize and just go on like this for months and months. I am down to 8 mg of Prozac and holding....how long do I hold?

I was planning on holding until the end of July - that will be approx. six weeks of holding. Is that long enough? It's in my signature but I will restate it - I am also 22 months off of Klonopin and started tapering the prozac one year after the benzo was ended.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

Thank you!

Sally3

Can anyone please give me some encouragement as related to my previous post....about stabilizing. I am so afraid that I will not stabilize - so far no improvements...and it's been two weeks...very discouraged and very very depressed....please help...

Sally3

Hi Sally.. in her last post to you, Alto said you needed to hold for 2 months. That would be until the middle of August.. You are feeling really awful, unfortunately not to uncommon for withdrawal symptoms and I'm really sorry things are so difficult for you now. What do you have for real world support. Do you have understanding friends or family, and what are you able to do functionally. I'll try to go back into your thread later when I have more time, but for now perhaps you could give me some added info.

 

You will stabilize, but it's obviously going to take some time. Tell me about the depression. Could it be that you are feeling a combo of depressive symptoms.. some related to withdrawal, and some because the whole withdrawal process is so incredibly difficult. It sounds like messaging on the forum offers hope, and so you are waiting for responses.. I'm sure other folks will chime in here.. but hope this helps for now. ~S

[Sally3]

Thank you Schuyler for responding - I really appreciate it. Ok so I must hold for two months - so the middle of August...hope I can do it. Just want off this stuff - to know that I am drug free....

I don't really have supportive friends - no one understands or even tries to. I do have a supportive family - my husband is here with me and I am so glad of that. Am I functional? Some days I am very functional, can shop, do laundry, drive, visit a friend. Other days - not functional at all - it is all I can do to get dressed. The depression seems to be getting worse and my mind is taking me to very dark places. I believe I am overwhelmed by all of this, even though I have been dealing with it for the 22 months I have been off the drug. I just feel that this is never going to end and now with the prozac w/d - it may take another year and I just don't feel that I can keep living like this for another year or two....if only I could see an end to this.....and also the yo yoing of the waves and windows is making me nuts. On my window day I will shop, buy lots of good food and then the next day wake up in a wave and the food just sits there and goes bad or stale. I need some consistency in my life...I need to be able to be dependable to myself...so disappointed in myself....can't make any commitments to anybody....feel undependable and dependent on my husband. Hate it! On one of my good days I volunteered to work at the SPCA as a volunteer. I made it to the orientation and have not been able to go there to help out at all. So disappointed in myself.

Well that is my sob story for today - thank you for responding....and thanks for listening - and any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

Sally3

[Barbarannamated]

Sally,

 

Schuyler and Alto will best advise on taper and dosage schedule. I have only tapered off of 1 drug so far (Pristiq - SNRI) and can't imagine trying to taper Klonopin also. The yo-yo effect is still very strong. It is incredibly frustrating! The variation just from morning to evening is maddening. Some days, I feel functional and almost normal, usually later in the day. I make plans, thinking the *normal* will carry over to the next day but, inevitably, wake with the paralyzing dread. It lightens throughout the day. We've referred to it as The Groundhog Day effect, like the movie in which Bill Murray wakes up and relives the same bad day over and over. I generally become functional at about 12-1:00pm. Some days more than others.

 

Your SPCA volunteer story is exactly the same as my attempt to volunteer as a Patient Advocate at a local hospital. I had been on disability for several years, trying to ease back to some routine. I interviewed (it was to become a paid position in future), did the background check, orientation, TB shot, bought the uniform. Then I froze. I cant explain it. I worked in high pressure jobs with doctors for years, but lost my confidence for a volunteer position. I've started and quit so many things in the last 10 years on drugs (cant blame mine on withdrawal). I began a discussion on the Disconnect Between Interest and Motivation that several people identified with. I think there's more to it than lack of motivation because I've always been highly motivated. My self confidence/esteem has taken a bad dive over the years.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1203-disconnect-between-interest-and-actionmotivation/page__fromsearch__1

 

I don't have a solution for you, but wanted to let you know you are not alone in how you feel. You seem to be putting alot of pressure on yourself and adhere to a timeline. Try to set that aside for awhile and allow yourself to stabilize. You are likely still experiencing effects from the benzo taper.

 

Hugs.

[jr1985]

Thank you Schuyler for responding - I really appreciate it. Ok so I must hold for two months - so the middle of August...hope I can do it. Just want off this stuff - to know that I am drug free....

I don't really have supportive friends - no one understands or even tries to. I do have a supportive family - my husband is here with me and I am so glad of that. Am I functional? Some days I am very functional, can shop, do laundry, drive, visit a friend. Other days - not functional at all - it is all I can do to get dressed. The depression seems to be getting worse and my mind is taking me to very dark places. I believe I am overwhelmed by all of this, even though I have been dealing with it for the 22 months I have been off the drug. I just feel that this is never going to end and now with the prozac w/d - it may take another year and I just don't feel that I can keep living like this for another year or two....if only I could see an end to this.....and also the yo yoing of the waves and windows is making me nuts. On my window day I will shop, buy lots of good food and then the next day wake up in a wave and the food just sits there and goes bad or stale. I need some consistency in my life...I need to be able to be dependable to myself...so disappointed in myself....can't make any commitments to anybody....feel undependable and dependent on my husband. Hate it! On one of my good days I volunteered to work at the SPCA as a volunteer. I made it to the orientation and have not been able to go there to help out at all. So disappointed in myself.

Well that is my sob story for today - thank you for responding....and thanks for listening - and any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

Sally3

 

Hi Sally3,

 

I'm in a similar position to you - sitting on same dose for a while until my nervous system stabilizes. Then I plan on jumping to Prozac and taper off that. I understand the frustration of just wanting to get off the awful drug, but I think it's important we don't rush things and try to listen to our bodies.

 

Once you stablize, I don't think you will suffer as much during the actual taper, as long as you do it slowly enough.

 

As for the volunteering, I volunteer once every other week in a hospice. I also work part-time. I find having something that takes my mind off of my own problems is very beneficial, as I'm not focused on how I'm feeling so much. Don't feel bad about not being well enough to help out yet, when you stabilize things may be different.

[Sally3]

Thank you for replying Barabara.....I appreciate it....I do put alot of pressure on myself...feel that I must get my life back and soon. I'm not getting any younger....I always have had alot of confidence as well, and now it's not so much lack of confidence as just not knowing how I will be on the day that I committed to. I don't want to commit to something and then back out...I hate that. And that is what I have had to do so many times even with little obligations like lunch with some friends.

Thank you again for your empathy and understanding- it helps alot.

Sally3

[Karma]

I just feel that this is never going to end and now with the prozac w/d - it may take another year and I just don't feel that I can keep living like this for another year or two....

 

Hi Sally,

 

Don't worry about living through this for another year or two, right now ... right now you just need to get through this moment and then the next moment. How you feel will change. Be grateful for your supportive husband and just take care of yourself.

 

There will be improvements and when you start to get some consistency in how you feel you can reach out a bit. It is very common for those of us going through any kind of withdrawals to pull in and avoid commitments. Don't beat yourself up about it. Give yourself some time to heal.

 

Karma

[alexjuice]

How are you eating?

 

You are certain not to feel this way forever, sally, so hang in there.

[Nikki]

Sally I went and read thru your original posts like Schuyler. Please don't feel bad about not understanding the mL vs mgs.

 

I had to ask Alto over & over again until I understood it

 

I am so sorry you are feeling depressed. Sally when this happens, generally going back up in dose to the previous dose (and sometimes a little bit more) is what seems to bring relief.

This is my suggestion.

 

You had a rocky road with tapering due to the Ml vs mgs., and this may be why you are down in the dumps. Go back up and see if you feel better. It usually works. Stay there and don't taper for a month or so. It can take a good month to stabilize.

 

Your body and mind could use the rest.

 

Hang in there. Get some sunshine, walking can help too...swimming a funny movie.

[Altostrata]

Sally, I merged your 2 latest topics with this one. Your history is easier to find here.

 

You've asked the same questions in all your topics. The answers are now all in this topic.

 

When you need support or want to ask a question about your particular situation, put it in this topic.

 

Withdrawal syndrome is difficult to cope with. You need to be patient. You won't feel better right away, your nervous system needs time to fix itself.

[Sally3]

Thank you for all of your responses and encouragement. I apologize for asking the same questions in all my topics - I didn't realize that I did that. Just at the end of my rope right now....thanks again for responding.

Sally3

[jfrank17]

Sally, don't feel bad. I know I've been doing the exact same thing. Keep getting panicked over the same things, asking the same questions, having the same worries. It's just a mind overburdened by stress and the trauma of it. We are constantly craving fresh reassurance about our fears. Hang in there

[Sally3]

Hello - I have been hold at 8 mgs of Prozac for 3 weeks waiting to staabilize. I take the Prozac as 1 ml (4 mg) in the AM and 1 ml (4mg) in the pm. After reading on this site that I didn't need to divide the dose, I decided to take all 8 mg in the am. I started this on Saturday..with no major effects. However Monday mornign I awoke with extreme anxiety, shaking, chest hammering and it was the same this morning.

I am wondering if any of you have thoughts that this excess anxiety is due to the dose change? Today I went back to the divided dose and hope to get back to where I was....and hope to stabilize soon. Any thoughts about this - it seems so inconsequential but obviously it was not.

Thank you

Sally3

[Barbarannamated]

That says alot about the unreliability of looking only at a drug's half life as is often done in medicine. I think you will know in the next day or two. Please let us know.

[Skyler]

Hello - I have been hold at 8 mgs of Prozac for 3 weeks waiting to staabilize. I take the Prozac as 1 ml (4 mg) in the AM and 1 ml (4mg) in the pm. After reading on this site that I didn't need to divide the dose, I decided to take all 8 mg in the am. I started this on Saturday..with no major effects. However Monday mornign I awoke with extreme anxiety, shaking, chest hammering and it was the same this morning.

I am wondering if any of you have thoughts that this excess anxiety is due to the dose change? Today I went back to the divided dose and hope to get back to where I was....and hope to stabilize soon. Any thoughts about this - it seems so inconsequential but obviously it was not.

Thank you

Sally3

 

Hi Sally, Changing the timing of a dose while your system is so unstable can cause you to become more symptomatic. I'm tapering Lyrica and Requip with a QID dose (the half life is 6 hrs for both) and had to gradually phase over from BID to QID.. went to TID first. On each change there was some difference in the tinnitus, which is my withdrawal curse.

 

With Prozac, the peak plasma concentrations are between 6 and 8 hrs, so I would think your system can tell the difference. Also, recommended dosing is either BID or once a day, and the more sensitive your body, the more it can differentiate between fluctuations in your blood.

 

Is the anxiety, etc. you are having now similar to what you felt when you first started to hold 3 weeks ago? Has there been any improvement so far? ~S

[jr1985]

Yes, taking the full dose at once would be like taking a higher dose. I would just stick to the twice daily if you felt ok on that.

[Sally3]

Thank you all so much for your replies. Could someone explain to me what is QID, BID and TID?

The anxiety is so horrible right now - it's like when I was back in acute w/d from the Klonopin over 22 months ago.

I should have known better to not updose like that....but I thought Prozac had a long half life and was easier to get off of. and so I thought just having the same dose amount in my blood stream would be ok,,,,didn't know that combining the two doses would be so difficult on me. Wow - learning the hard way.....

Thank you all again.

Sally3

[Barbarannamated]

QID = 4x/day

 

TID = 3x/day

 

BID = 2x/day

 

QD = 1x/day

 

qhs = 1x/day at Hour of Sleep (hora somni)

 

qam = 1x/day in am/morning (ante meridian)

 

prn = as needed (pro re nata or "in the circumstances")

[Sally3]

Thank you Barbara - I appreciate that - yes I guess I should have asked before I even tried to combine my two doses - but I was told that Prozac is supposed to be only taken once a day in one dose. I believe that is what I read...I will go back and check it out. Thank you for the info....yes I will stay on BID doses....

Sally3

[Altostrata]

Hi, Sally, I combined your 2 topics. Only one topic to a customer in the Intro section. Please put all your questions in this one topic.

 

I am sorry you're having such a bad time. I can't tell you if increasing the Prozac will help or not.

 

It does seem your nervous system is sensitized by benzo withdrawal and you'll need to continue divided doses of Prozac, if you stay on it.

 

Since your nervous system is so sensitive, and you had that bad reaction to a combined dose of Prozac, increasing the Prozac could make you worse.

 

After you take the Prozac in the morning, do you feel better or worse?

 

Stability is best for your nervous system. There's no easy answer for withdrawal syndrome.

[Sally3]

Hello -

I thought I was doing the tapering of the Prozac fairly well but I have run into some problems...my days are getting worse. I was tapering .01 ml of Prozac in the 20 ml suspension every 3-4 days in a 1 ml syringe. I wasn't feeling great but I was more functional and was able to have some good days. But it seems now that I have tapered down .22 ml - that I am suffering alot. Much depression, anxiety, shaking....can you tell me if I am tapering too fast, too much at one time, or not enough time between cuts. Someone said to me that I may be piggybacking my cuts and I'm not sure what that means. Can you explain.

I am not sure how to proceed from here...I have been holding for 12 days at the .22 ml cut....should I hold longer, continue - I just am at a loss here. Thank you for your thoughts.

Sally2

[Sally3]

I made an error (cog fog day) I tapered down .22 mls - not .11 - I said both numbers but it is .22 mls..or 11 little black ticks on the 1 ml syringe. Hope that makes sense...

[Altostrata]

Hi, Sally. Are you using the tiny 1mL syringe or the 10mL syringe?

 

How much Prozac are you taking every day?

 

Also wanted to add the amount that is on the bottle of prozac - it says

Fluoxetine 20 mg/5ml solution...

 

Each division on the 1mL syringe is .01mL (10 ticks between .10mL and .20mL) or .02mL (5 ticks between .10mL and .20mL).

 

At 20 mg/5ml (4mg Prozac in 1mL solution)

.01mL = .04mg Prozac

.02mL = .08mg Prozac

 

....

 

If you are using at 10mL syringe:

Sally, if there are 5 ticks between 1mL and 2mL, each division is .2mL (2/10 mL).

 

At 20 mg/5ml (4mg Prozac in 1mL solution)

.2mL (1 tiny division on 10mL syringe) = .8mg Prozac

.4mL (2 tiny divisions on 10mL syringe) = 1.6mg Prozac

.6mL (3 tiny divisions on 10mL syringe) = 2.4mg Prozac

.8mL (4 tiny divisions on 10mL syringe) = 3.2mg Prozac

1.0mL (5 tiny divisions on 10mL syringe) = 4.0mg Prozac

....

 

[strawberry17]

I'm tapering liquid Prozac, however I am a little confused about how you are going about this, do you have liquid Prozac? or are you making up a solution some other way?

 

I have the liquid Prozac and have tapered down from 5ml to my current dose of 0.90ml, I'm in my 5th year, that doesn't mean to say it will take you as long to taper, but you definately have to think of it as a long game.

 

I would say from the symptoms you are describing that you are definately in a withdrawal and have gone too fast, and you need to stop, no more cuts until the depression/anxiety/shaking have passed, give yourself time, forget calendars and schedules, listen to your body. If after some time you're still feeling really bad you might need to updose a little bit to get rid of the symptoms. Never make another cut until you're absolutely sure you feel well enough to do so. Hope that helps.

[Sally3]

Thank you to both of you for your response....this is so confusing to me.

Altostratos - I am using the tiny 1 ml syringe. I am down to 7.3 mg of Prozac. I am having a hard time figuring this out so please forgive me. I take a 1 ml (4 mg) dose in the morning and in the evening I take a 1 ml (4 mg)dose minus 11 of the little black ticks....each tick is .02 ml (correct?) so I have reduced by .22 ml of the prozac. I was dropping one little tick of .02 every 3 or 4 days. Is that too fast? My solutions is 20 mg of prozac/5 ml of solution. Should I try to get that diluted? I just cannot get a handle on the milliliters/milligram thing and the decimals. For instance - strawberry - the .90 that you mentioned - I have no idea how much that is or where it would measure on my one milliliter syringe. I hate that I can't understand this...but my brain just can't comprehend it.

Are there any books out on this that could put it in plain black and white - something like "Tapering for Dummies?"

I want to do this right and stop feeling these horrible sx....I have been holding now for 12 days...

Also on Wed, we were away and I forgot to take my evening dose and this Sat and Sun have been horrible - could that be because of the missed dose?

also if you could explain "piggybacking" the doses to me - I would be greatful. I appreciate your help as I am just lost in this.

Also I think it is important to state that I did this reduction over approx. two months...I thought that was plenty slow enough, but obviously I am wrong. any suggestions on how much I SHOULD be reducing? I am down to 7.3 from 20 mg which I started last August and then held from April (we moved) till July.

Thank you once again!

Sally3

[Altostrata]

Sally, I moved your latest posts here because they're about your particular dosing.

 

"Piggybacking" means you're making your cuts too frequently. The reductions are compiling and they're causing withdrawal symptoms.

 

Definitely hold until symptoms subside.

 

As we discussed before, your system may be super-sensitive to reductions because of the prior benzo withdrawal. Please don't push your tapering.

 

I'm afraid we're writing the primer for tapering right here!

 

How many ticks are there between .10 and .20 on your 1mL syringe?

[Sally3]

Thanks Altostrato....I'v got the "Dummy" part down pat for the primer we're writing right here....

there are 5 ticks between each of the numbers...and it's a 1 ml syringe so I think each little tick is worth .02...

I will hold for awhile to see what happens...but I am wondering if you think that .02ml every 3 or 4 days is too fast....I didn't think so, but now I am wondering...when all those cuts pile up at the end, it's like getting hit with a bulldozer. Does anyone know how long it takes with Prozac to feed the effects of a cut - days, weeks?

Thank you for your help....I am on HOLD for now....

Sally3

[Altostrata]

Each division on the 1mL syringe is .01mL (10 ticks between .10mL and .20mL) or .02mL (5 ticks between .10mL and .20mL).

 

At 20 mg/5ml (4mg Prozac in 1mL solution)

.01mL = .04mg Prozac

.02mL = .08mg Prozac

 

....

 

If you are reducing by 1 tick, you are reducing by .08mg Prozac every 3 or 4 days. It seems this is too fast for your own personal nervous system.

 

It helps me if you can tell me what the dosage is in Prozac mgs rather than the amount of liquid in the syringe.

[Sally3]

Thank you Alto - it is this kind of question that strikes fear in my heart - let's see if I can figure this out...

I am taking 1 ml of prozac 2 times a day. So that would be 4 mg of Prozac in each syringe, right? 4 mg Prozac equls 1 ml Prozac.

So on the first 1 ml dose - I don't deduct anything. On the 2nd, evening dose, I have 1 ml or 4 mg Prozac and I deduct 11 little ticks or .22 ml of Prozac - so if each little tick is equal to .08 mg of prozac then I would multiply .08 x 11 and get .088 mg of Prozac that I am reducing and if I subtract .088 for 8 mg Prozac (my total dose for the day - AM and PM) then I get 7.12.....whew - is that right? So I am taking down to 7.12 mg of Prozac ... is that what you are asking me? Sorry to be so obtuse...

Sally3

[Altostrata]

....

I am taking 1 ml of prozac 2 times a day. So that would be 4 mg of Prozac in each syringe, right? 4 mg Prozac equls 1 ml Prozac....

Correct.

....So on the first 1 ml dose - I don't deduct anything. On the 2nd, evening dose, I have 1 ml or 4 mg Prozac and I deduct 11 little ticks or .22 ml of Prozac - so if each little tick is equal to .08 mg of prozac then I would multiply .08 x 11 and get .088 mg of Prozac that I am reducing and if I subtract .088 for 8 mg Prozac (my total dose for the day - AM and PM) then I get 7.12.....whew - is that right? So I am taking down to 7.12 mg of Prozac ... is that what you are asking me? ....

 

Yes, thanks for the info.

 

11 times .08mg is .88mg, not .088mg.

 

.88mg subtracted from 8mg is 7.12mg, hurray!!

 

Still, if you're getting withdrawal symptoms, that rate of decrease is too much for you. You're making cuts too fast.