Catwoman35: withdrawal or relapse?

[Altostrata]

Increasing tolerance is a natural outcome of taking psychotropics.

 

@Frogie, would you help with this schedule:

 

17 hours ago, Catwoman35 said:

7.30am or 8am - 7.5 oxazepam

9am- 25 sertraline

2pm- 7.5mg oxazepam

10pm- 7.5mg oxazepam (on few occasions when I started getting panic 15mg)

 

@Frogie I increased sertraline to 25mg on April 6 (thank you for taking time to help me!)

 

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

I think the first thing that needs to be done is split the doses of oxazepam as you are taking "rescue doses".  You need to keep a consistent amount of oxazepam in your system.

 

I would suggest the following schedule:

 

7 am - 5 mg oxazepam

9 am - 25 mg sertraline

2 pm - 5 mg oxazepam

10 pm - 5 mg oxazepam

 

Please don't take more than the 15 mg of oxazepam in a day. You need to take the sertraline 2 hours after your oxazepam and you need to keep a consistent schedule.

 

Hold this for 2 weeks and then we will set up a taper schedule.

 

You may want to try magnesium. It is very calming. Try a small dose and see how you do. You can always increase the dosage:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Try epsom salt baths, They have amazing results for calming also.

 

Let me know what you think about this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Catwoman35]

Hi @Frogie🙏

Thank you for your suggestion. I have been preparing by trying to slice a tiny round pill of 15mg into 3 equal parts of 5mg. 😅

This 7am waking up for first dose is a little bit difficult, especially on the weekends. 

Would this work (if not, I am OK with the one you posted:

 

8 am - 5 mg oxazepam

10 am - 25 mg sertraline

3 pm - 5 mg oxazepam

10 pm - 5 mg oxazepam

 

I am taking magnesium citrate every evening for a couple of days now. I am just reading Alto´s post you linked. Never tried epsom salt baths but sounds good.

[Frogie]

Hi:

 

That schedule is fine. You just want to make sure you take the oxazepam 2 hours before the sertraline.

 

Epson salt is magnesium, so that might help as well. Glad the magnesium is working for you. I find it does help me.

 

If you could do this for a few days and let me know how you’re doing that would be great. Then if everything is going well, in a couple of weeks we can start a taper plan.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

 

[Catwoman35]

Hi @Frogie,

 

I´ve been on reduced Oxazepam now for 2 days.

 

8 am - 5 mg oxazepam

10 am - 25 mg sertraline

3 pm - 5 mg oxazepam

10 pm - 5 mg oxazepam

 

I think I feel slightly worse, especially in the morning. Even on previous dose (7.5mgx3), I would wake up anxious around 7am, but now that anxiety comes stronger. I think sertraline did not "kick in" yet (today is day 17 that I am using it on 25mg).

[Frogie]

Hi:

 

I'm sorry you're feeling rough. It takes about 4 days for the medication to be steady in your system.

 

Do you think you could hold on a couple more days and see how you're feeling? Then let me know and we can go from there. If you don’t think you can do the reduced dose, you could increase to 7 mg. But keep the same schedule. What do you think about that? I don’t want you to suffer during this transition.

 

In the meantime,  maybe increase your magnesium just a little in the morning and see if that might help?

 

Take care, 

Frogie xx

Edited April 22, 2021 by Frogie

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

This is unrelated to your taper, but just noticed you were in Finland. My great grandparents came from Finland and settled in Montana, USA. So, I’m 1/2 Finish!

 

Small world😊

[Catwoman35]

Hi @Frogie, not sure I can handle reduced dose, I am very anxious, almost panicky 😫. I took an additional rescue dose yesterday when it started escalating.

I´ll do 7mg first with same schedule and then we can reduce more. Increasing magnesium too! 🙏

 

Oh wow, that is so cool that you have Finnish roots! World does sound like a small place sometimes. I think your great grandparents had a point, I am not liking the climate here either. 😊

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

Do you normally take 15 mg a day or 30 mg a day? Guess I’m a little confused. But if you want to try the 7 mg on the same schedule, then give it a few days. Let me know how that goes.😊

 

Hopefully increasing the magnesium will help some too.

 

We’ll get this figured out so you aren’t suffering.

 

What is the weather like there? I would love to go to Finland someday😊

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

 

[Catwoman35]

Hi @Frogie!

For oxazepam, I normally take 7,5mg in the morning, 7.5mg afternoon and 7.5mg evening = 22.5mg in total. Sometimes, on rare and super anxious days I might have 7.5mg extra, making it a total of 30mg a day. Even with this dosing, I am pretty anxious, on some days I can barely function. In addition to this, I take 25mg of sertraline daily.

 

Weather in Finland sucks, to be honest. Well, Northern part of Finland is very cold and while it is beautiful to visit, I could not live there. Southern parts are warmer with more moderate climate. Winters are longer than they should be though, and summers are quite short and the temperature rarely goes over 77F. I spent most of my life in Mediterranean area so this climate is not my fav. Which part of Finland did your great grandparents migrate from?

 

 

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

No wonder you are having symptoms. I cut you quite a bit. I apologize for that. Why don’t you keep the schedule we set up but take the 7.5 mg so we can get you on a consistent schedule for a good couple of weeks and then when you feel better we will start tapering you slowly and see how you do. Try not to take rescue doses unless you have to. We could also split it up in 4-5 doses if you think that would be better. Does that sound like a plan?

 

Finland sounds beautiful though. I live in Colorado, USA. We have multi seasons. Spring usually runs March through June and rains, but we’ve had snow the last few weeks. Summer runs from June through September and we see days well over 100! Hot. Fall runs September through November but it’s much cooler and rains/snows. Then my favorite is winter which runs November through March and sometimes we are lucky to get feet of snow. It’s very peaceful to me. I’m not sure what part of Finland my great grandparents are from. My dad and grandfather have passed away so I’m not sure where to find out. Maybe someday I will.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

Edited April 24, 2021 by Frogie

[Altostrata]

Good job, @Frogie 🙂

[Frogie]

@Altostrata

 

Thanks!

[Catwoman35]

 

On 4/24/2021 at 8:01 PM, Frogie said:

@Catwoman35

Why don’t you keep the schedule we set up but take the 7.5 mg so we can get you on a consistent schedule for a good couple of weeks and then when you feel better we will start tapering you slowly and see how you do. Try not to take rescue doses unless you have to. We could also split it up in 4-5 doses if you think that would be better. Does that sound like a plan?

 

@Frogie Sorry for slow reply. Yes, I think it is best we do that. I need to stabilize first before tapering with my meds. Having quite a bad time at the moment. My doctor is urging me to raise sertraline from 25mg to 50mg. What do you think about that? I don´t want to raise it but I feel terrible. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks that I am on 25mg of sertraline and I did not notice a lot of improvement. I just want to feel better and somewhat normal. My husband is losing his wits with me also, and that just makes things so much worse.

 

I have never been to Colorado (or USA at all) but climate sounds like I would like it! Funny thing that you said winter is your favorite season, it might be something in your genes.  I think one day I will move to some warmer country. Finnish weather is really pissing me off, especially now during covid when all travel stopped and we have been stuck for a year. My parents live in another country and I have not been able to see them for over 1.5 year, so Finland is quite a lonely place to be. I hope one day you find out where your great grandparents came from and you should definitely visit Finland!

[Catwoman35]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:17 AM, Altostrata said:

Good job, @Frogie 🙂

Thanks for checking in @Altostrata 🌻

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

I don’t think I would raise the sertraline dosage at this time. Let’s get you back to the normal dosage of the oxazepam and hold it for a while. Maybe you’ll see a difference then.

 

Hope you are able to see your family soon. It’s been a very difficult time for everyone. Give your husband a hug and tell him you love him. I bet that will help a lot😊

[Altostrata]

On 4/26/2021 at 12:02 PM, Catwoman35 said:

My doctor is urging me to raise sertraline from 25mg to 50mg. What do you think about that? I don´t want to raise it but I feel terrible. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks that I am on 25mg of sertraline and I did not notice a lot of improvement.

 

We're going on the assumption your systems are due to irregular oxazepam dosing. Increasing Zoloft will not help with that. Many doctors think that antidepressants are anxiety drugs, but they're not.

[Catwoman35]

@Frogie @Altostrata I have increased sertraline to 50mg today. I know it is against what you advised (I have just seen Alto´s reply) and I am really sorry. I understand if you are annoyed with me, I am annoyed with me also. And disappointed since I thought I was done with meds when I quit in December. And now I´m tempted to take any drug with a promise that it will make me feel better because I cannot bear this anymore... It seems like aside from anxiety, I also have depression and at the moment I am in a really bad condition. I am keeping oxazepam on agreed schedule of 7.5mgx3 times. I need to feel better before I can start tapering again.

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

I can understand that you grasped onto something to feel better. I have been there. I can’t be angry at you for a decision that you made. We just need to get you stable and feeling better. It will take approximately 4 days for the sertraline increase to take effect. I hope it works. Let me know how your doing.

[Catwoman35]

@Frogie  Thank you for not judging me. This is difficult as it is, I am progressively feeling worse every day. Was thinking to check myself into hospital but afraid all they would do is pump me full of meds. I am just hoping this is gonna start to get better soon. Thank you for your support. ❤️

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

I don’t judge people because we are all different. All I can do is give you advise. It’s your choice to do what you want with it.

 

If you can avoid a hospital that would be my suggestion. They will probably put you on other medications as you stated. 
 

It will take about 4 days for the updose to take effect. 
 

Let me know how you are doing in a few days and we can go from there.

[Catwoman35]

Hi @Frogie, I want you to know I really appreciate your support.

I am trying to stay away from hospital, I´ve never been admitted so even the idea scares the hell out of me.

Today is Day 4 of 50mg of sertraline, I have been feeling worse since I increased it. The anxiety is worst in the morning and subsides only around 6pm when I start crying.

I hope this starts improving soon, don´t know how long I can manage. The symptoms are severe and I am spending time mostly in bed.

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

I’m sorry to hear that. Do you think the increase made you worse? If it did, being only 4 days you could probably drop and see how you feel. I hope you’re able to stay out of the hospital so it doesn’t confuse the matter worse. It’s a very scary thing right now. But we just need to get you stabilized so you’ll feel better. You are having normal wd symptoms, unfortunately. I hope you feel better very soon.

[Catwoman35]

@Frogie I am not sure. It has been getting progressively worse so I cannot tell whether it is from increase or not. I am scared to do anything with my dose now. Today I had a session with therapist, I feel it´s helping because I do have a lot of inner conflicts that are making my anxiety worse.

 

So, these are normal symptoms of withdrawal? It´s good to know, I was afraid I was going crazy.

I also hope it gets better soon... Thank you for being here.

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

You are not going crazy. This is very normal wd symptoms.

 

Maybe you should hold a few more days and see how you feel. Hopefully you’ll start stabilizing very soon. But just know, you are completely fine. It’s all wd.

 

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

I was just checking in to see how you are doing?

[Catwoman35]

Hi @Frogie, thank you so much for checking up on me. ❤️ I really appreciate you reassuring me.

Still struggling, I think I am slightly better. Just waiting it out... On same meds schedule. Doing "Dare response" if you ever heard of it, to help with anxiety.

 

How are you doing? 

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

I've done a lot of therapy and CBT. I hope it helps you.

 

Just keep with the same schedule and maybe let me know Monday how you're doing? 

 

Good thing though, you're not worse. Hopefully you'll stabilize very soon.

 

Hang in there. 

 

Take care, 

Frogie xx

[Catwoman35]

Hi @Frogie, just checking in. I feel a bit better. Hopefully finally stabilizing. 🙏

How are you?

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

That’s wonderful news. It sounds like you may be stabilizing if you’re feeling a bit better. My suggestion would be to continue holding for a while longer and we’ll see how you’re doing!

 

 I’m holding my own, thanks for asking.

[Catwoman35]

Hi again! I have went through few ups and downs in the meantime. I have a bit of anxiety setback, which I suspect might have to do with oxazepam. Doctor now switched me to diazepam instead of oxazepam. 

 

My previous dose of oxazepam was 7.5mg in the morning, 7.5mg in the afternoon, 7.5mg in the evening. My question is how to switch to diazepam? Doctor just prescribed me 5mg pill and told me to take half/or full in the morning and half/or full in the evening (so in total 5mg or 10mg). Does this sound right? Should I be switching just like that? @Frogie 🙏 can you please advise me?

I guess next steps would be to stabilize on diazepam and then start tapering down.

[Urchinowl]

2 hours ago, Catwoman35 said:

Hi again! I have went through few ups and downs in the meantime. I have a bit of anxiety setback, which I suspect might have to do with oxazepam. Doctor now switched me to diazepam instead of oxazepam. 

 

My previous dose of oxazepam was 7.5mg in the morning, 7.5mg in the afternoon, 7.5mg in the evening. My question is how to switch to diazepam? Doctor just prescribed me 5mg pill and told me to take half/or full in the morning and half/or full in the evening (so in total 5mg or 10mg). Does this sound right? Should I be switching just like that? @Frogie 🙏 can you please advise me?

I guess next steps would be to stabilize on diazepam and then start tapering down.

Following your story as it is identical to mine!!

 

I was on zoloft for 15 years, also for panic disorder. I managed after a few years of therapy but stayed on the medications anyways for fear of who I was without.

 

Like you, I felt no real symptoms except irritability until around 2 months after tapering. I began to have panic attacks literally everyday, I could not sleep, crying spells. It was AWFUL.  However, I'm terrified of new medication, so I never used any benzodiazpines or other meds to help with the symptoms. I literally just pushed through on 1 to 2 hours of sleep and not eating for like 2 weeks. I will say, around 2 to 3 weeks later my anxiety did dissipate quite a bit. However what lingered was anhedonia and depression (which I had never had depression before!) 

 

Honestly I feel the benzos are causing more problems for you then helping. The reason I say this, is because you brain has now associated "bad" with panic and anxiety which MUST be relieved through medication. Once you get to a place you recognize you can get through these attacks over and over without an immediate medication resolving them, your brain stops fearing the attacks and anxiety drops. 

 

Like you, I reinstated, but for different reasons. Mine was due to my apathy, depersonalization, and numbness. It's still mildly present. But do know, that my panic attacks and anxiety, as of now, have decreased by 75 percent. Mood is still an issue for me, but I'm holding steady on 25mg for a while before making any other changes and giving my nervous system a break to readjust. 

[Catwoman35]

Hi Urchinowl and thank you for the reply. 💜
 

I have just read your introduction story and yes, we do have some things in common! Seems like reinstatement helped for you, unfortunately it did not really work out for me. I am still not sure whether it is doing anything. I had brief moments of good mood and I thought I was getting better... but had major setback 10 days ago. 

You are right, benzos did not help me in the slightest, I suspect the increased anxiety might be the result of using benzos. But I just did what doctors told me to. I also found this website a little bit too late. I don´t think benzos are helping anymore anyway, they did at some point but now I feel no relief from taking them. I just want to switch to diazepam and taper off. Then I will worry about Zoloft. I´ll stop by to your thread also to add some thoughts.

[Catwoman35]

1 hour ago, Urchinowl said:

The reason I say this, is because you brain has now associated "bad" with panic and anxiety which MUST be relieved through medication. Once you get to a place you recognize you can get through these attacks over and over without an immediate medication resolving them, your brain stops fearing the attacks and anxiety drops. 

 

You are so right! I am currently working on "tolerating" the symptoms and just going with the flow... Trying to re-train my brain so that it stops fearing anxiety and just accepts it as something really unpleasant but temporary. As I mentioned above, I know benzos have just made this whole thing worse. But trying to do what I can with what I have. 😅 

[Urchinowl]

1 hour ago, Catwoman35 said:

Seems like reinstatement helped for you, unfortunately it did not really work out for me. I am still not sure whether it is doing anything. I had brief moments of good mood and I thought I was getting better... but had major setback 10 days ago. 

I wonder if the difference is due to the other medication you were taking? Also I've only reinstated for one week. I also reinstated after my anxiety had settled down quite a bit...where it sounds like yours was in the middle of it. 

 

What is a setback for you? Increased anxiety? 

 

FYI when I was on zlloft for 15 years, I had periods of extreme panic and crying spells EVEN WHILE ON IT. It did nothing to help. Therefore I suspect it not be due to medication but more my brain being naturally inclined to have these periods once in a while. It's not a setback, and they never were, it was a pause period. Kind of like someone with chronic pain...days it flares up and other days it's good. 

[Frogie]

@Catwoman35

 

Hi…

 

So sorry your dr is switching you. You seemed to be stabilizing somewhat.

 

Any chance you can stay on the oxazepam, or has the dr already made the decision?

 

If you are going to switch, Diazepam equivalent is 11 mg to what your dosage is for oxazepam. 
 

I would divide that into 3 doses as you are taking already. Start by taking the 3.6 mg of diazepam in place of your morning oxazepam dosage for a week and see how you do. If you are alright (symptoms are very manageable), then switch your afternoon dose to diazepam for a week, then switch your evening dose to diazepam. You will be taking 3.6 mg in each dose of diazepam. Does that make sense?

 

Then hold, hold, hold until you have stabilized for a good couple months I would expect. After that time we can start tapering you off.

 

Let me know how you feel about this.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx