Kris73: Prozac cold turkey after 25+ years

[PsychologicalSafe15]

@Kris73 you took it for 25+ years . OMG. If you dont have  sexual dysfuntion IBS issues then you should feel lucky as all of them will subside by 6 months to 9 month.

[mstimc]

Kris, I've been where you are and know how you feel.  The  feeling you'll never improve seems endless and overwhelming.  As I've mentioned before, reinstatement is a deeply personal decision, but at best its a gamble.  Instead of fixating on the "old me", accept that person is gone, and look for ways you can create a "new me" who will be the person you want to be.  I know that sounds trite, but it works because it takes your attention off trying to get back to something and someone you're weren't particularly happy with. 

 

Are there any low-intensity activities that can help distract your thoughts, even for a while?  Even just taking a short walk can improve your outlook.

 

Hang in there.  Things can and do get better. 

[Kris73]

2 hours ago, mstimc said:

Kris, I've been where you are and know how you feel.  The  feeling you'll never improve seems endless and overwhelming.  As I've mentioned before, reinstatement is a deeply personal decision, but at best its a gamble.  Instead of fixating on the "old me", accept that person is gone, and look for ways you can create a "new me" who will be the person you want to be.  I know that sounds trite, but it works because it takes your attention off trying to get back to something and someone you're weren't particularly happy with. 

 

Are there any low-intensity activities that can help distract your thoughts, even for a while?  Even just taking a short walk can improve your outlook.

 

Hang in there.  Things can and do get better. 

The thing is, I'm not unsure I was "unhappy" with myself as I was, more I was unhappy with being on antidepressants. I wanted to see what the world would be like without them. I guess I hoped I would stay as I was, just antidepressant free. I truly believed (or hoped) antidepressants were really mostly just placebo. However, I've found to my cost that in my case, anyway, they were far from a placebo. I had a life on antidepressants, now I feel like a shell.  With many issues that cold turkeying from antidepressants has left....

How ignorant and stupid for believing the doctors

[mstimc]

9 minutes ago, Kris73 said:

The thing is, I'm not unsure I was unhappy with myself as I was, more I was unhappy with being on antidepressants. I wanted to see what the world would be like without them. I guess I hoped I would stay as I was, just antidepressant free. I truly believed (or hoped) antidepressants were really mostly just placebo.

What made you start AD's in the first place?  I scanned your thread but couldn't find that in your story.

 

My only additional advice is that regardless of what's happened in the past, you're dealing with the way things are now, and more importantly, what they can be.  I also know that WD can affect our perception of how we were before AD's, and wishing to "be the person I was" isn't unusual.  Staying focused on recovery  can help switch your past-focused negative thinking to something more hopeful 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by mstimc

[Kris73]

43 minutes ago, mstimc said:

What made you start AD's in the first place?  I scanned your thread but couldn't find that in your story.

I was a teenager at art school age 19. I had a "nervous breakdown" while at art school, and did struggle with mood issues at that time, related to poor family dynamics. I'm not sure I made a conscious decision to go on antidepressants. It just seemed that after I left my course, and was at home to recover, I was on antidepressants. I was almost hospitalised at that time and there is a lot of trauma and things I cannot remember. I probably just trusted the doctors at the time, without real capacity to be making an informed decision.  Maybe I was glad that there was something that could potentially help 

I did recover from that episode (had a brief spell at something called a day hospital, a service that has since been withdrawn from the NHS. It was very helpful and something I think would have great value now as an alternative to psych meds), went on to college and uni, then a job, then I decided to train as a nurse (psychiatric, believe it or not. And even so I was totally unprepared/aware of withdrawal issues and antidepressants). Then 2009 I was diagnosed with MS and told I needed a desk job and couldn't nurse.  After a while in NHS redeployment I ended up in a part time admin post. Then I left approximately 2016/7 to return to uni for post graduate study. I haven't worked since then approximately 2018/9.

[Kris73]

18 hours ago, mstimc said:

What made you start AD's in the first place?  I scanned your thread but couldn't find that in your story.

 

My only additional advice is that regardless of what's happened in the past, you're dealing with the way things are now, and more importantly, what they can be.  I also know that WD can affect our perception of how we were before AD's, and wishing to "be the person I was" isn't unusual.  Staying focused on recovery  can help switch your past-focused negative thinking to something more hopeful 

 

 

I think the problem is I don't know who I was before the antidepressants....is this why it's so scary and bewildering now thirty years on? Or is it purely the withdrawal process and the fact the the brain adapted to the AD which it no longer has? I'm just so confused about everything and find it harder and to continue in this state. I'm not sure I can tough it out until things start to improve. What if they never improve and I'm caught in this limbo forever. At the same time I am so so scared to reinstate. I feel like some life in antidepressants would be better than this paralysis.....

[mstimc]

Good Morning, Kris

 

Doing the "what-ifs" in your mind is common--and exhausting--in WD and anxiety in general.  Ruminating on "what if" is one way anxiety maintains its grip on your thinking.  And, as you said, it freezes you into indecision.  Anxiety is trying to do the thinking for you.  

 

In 2008, when I was still in WD, we were planning a major vacation.  My son, who was 12 at the time, was very much looking forward to it.  I was struggling with overwhelming anxiety to the point I told my therapist I was ready to go back on Paxil, even if it just numbed me--at least I'd be able to go on vacation.  We talked through it and I didn't go back on the med.  I was able to go on vacation and enjoy being with my wife and son.  It was one way that showed me anxiety doesn't always have to get its way. The point is anxiety wants to control you so all your attention is on it instead of what you want.

 

There's a branch of philosophy/psychology that says the universe will give you what you're interested in, even if what you're interested in isn't what you want.  Anxious thinking locks you into that pattern.  So maybe one thing that can help you break this pattern is asking yourself positive what-ifs:  "What if I do something I enjoy, just for a few minutes?" "What if I accept the fact its ok to feel ok, and anxiety can't bully me?".  It sounds so simple, but asking positive questions is a great way to start on your recovery. 

 

There are other members, like Altostrata, here who understand the idea of neuroplasticity much better than I do, but your brain can recover from WD and anxious thinking given enough time and the right tools. 

[Kris73]

Still struggling after a year...

It's been just over a year since I was told to cold turkey from antidepressants by a psychiatrist, when I expressed my wish to stop antidepressant medication.

I'm still being driven mad by lack of sleep plus anxiety and all the other things that go with withdrawal, abrupt or otherwise.

I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering restarting an antidepressant purely in order that I can get a decent sleep and potentially begin to function in life again 

Does anyone have any thoughts? I don't want to go down this road, but the thought of the sleep deprivation continuing in either the short or long term is very difficult. If I could just get some sleep. I feel like I try everything possible to maximise sleep length and quality to no avail. I practice good sleep hygiene, don't nap during the day, and still find I can't stay awake beyond 8-9pm, waking often at 2am for the loo and unable to get back to sleep.  Struggling to function.  Help would be greatly appreciated 🙏❤️🙏

[arbor]

Hi @Kris73  I sympathize with the lack of sleep.  It's such a frustration.  I don't know if this is helpful, but I often take a small dose of melatonin at the 2AM wake-up, plus a small dose of potassium citrate.  This can sometimes eventually send me back to sleep.

I send you healing wishes,

Arbor

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Kris73 What is your sleep pattern now? Has there been any change in the pattern over the last 4 months?

[Kris73]

Dear @arborand @Altostrata

Thank you so much for your reply regarding my sleep problems. I notice it's not something I mentioned in previous posts, but it has been bad since approximately 6-8 weeks after discontinuing AD. I guess I didn't mention it because the other problems of anxiety and particularly rage were distressing me more.

Sleep has been bad since stopping, last summer it was particularly bad because there weren't many hours of darkness (I'd say I was sleeping around 4-5 hours per night). As the year went on and we moved into autumn and winter it got slightly better, to what I described in my last message.

So in the last four months it has been in the pattern described - asleep early evening around 8-9pm (I sometimes struggle to make it to 8pm before I cannot keep my eyes open any longer) and awake maybe 1-2am. If I am lucky I sometimes make it to nearer 3am. Ideally I'd like to sleep through to even 4 or 5am. 

Recently I have found I have problems with my memory and concentration/problem solving which I put down to lack of decent restoring sleep. When I wake early I try to use sleep affirmations and relaxation techniques to get back to sleep, but it doesn't always work. I keep a regular time to get up no matter what, 6.15am and don't nap during the day. 

I have also increased my activity levels (volunteering and yoga classes plus an art class which I started yesterday) in the last six months which involves some anxiety, but I find it difficult to stay in the house given my husband still works mainly from home (for the time being).

Another issue recently has been that my beloved rescue dog died, and it was very traumatic. I have been seeing a counsellor since before I stopped the AD so this is helpful.

@arborwhat dosage of melatonin do you use? I was looking into this yesterday, in UK it can be prescribed by GP for short term use (although the guidelines state for over 55's only). It may be available OTC, but I'm not sure yet. I'd like to try it. I also read about antihistamines that may cause drowsiness being used as sleep aids. I may try this before melatonin, because, I'm now afraid of side effects with any medications.

Also what dose of potassium citrate?

Thank you both again for your responses, it is a comfort to know that there are people out there who understand this issue. I don't know what I'd do otherwise.

Sending love, light and healing🐾🌺🙏

Kristy

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry you lost your furry friend, that must have been hard.

 

You might find it helpful to take 0.25mg melatonin when you wake at 1 a.m., darken your bedroom with blackout shades and curtains, and wear a sleep mask to keep out the dawn light.

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[Kris73]

Hi @Altostrata

Thanks for the links, which I'm working my way through.

I note in the sleep cycle one it talks about rem sleep and the cycles and it says glucose is needed to facilitate this. Maybe at 2-3am I need to eat something to get that last rem cycle. I think this is what I am missing (the last ten cycle) because I get between 5-6 hours with my present pattern. The only thing is I don't like leaving my nice cosy bed😅. One evening I did get up at 2.30am and had something to eat and read a book for half an hour, and I'm sure I got back to sleep and dreamed.

I'll also see if melatonin can be purchased OTC in UK today. 

HAve a great day!

[Altostrata]

Sometimes having a whey protein shake or other snack in the evening can help sleep, if you've eaten a lot earlier and you have a tendency to low blood sugar overnight.

[Kris73]

Sadly melatonin can't be purchased in UK need Dr prescription. I'm so annoyed! Sleep still poor, last night 8pm to 1am @Altostrata

Have been to naturopath on Wednesday had acupuncture and slept well that night. She is sending me some homeopathic remedies to try. But this is so hard!

can you recommend somewhere to purchase melatonin for international shipping? Its just a pity Trader Joe's doesn't do mail order😅 I note also it's really cheap in the US. It's so very frustrating...

thanks again for your time and assistance. Have a great day 🙏

[ChessieCat]

What issue do you have with getting a prescription for it?

 

If melatonin is only available by prescription then it may be illegal to import.  You will need to check with the relevant authority.  There is discussion on the internet but I would not take their word for it.  I think you should do your own research.

[Kris73]

Hi @ChessieCatthanks for the heads up regarding importation. I know in the past when I've had items sent from the US there was a customs charge, and you're right, regarding the fact that it's a px only drug in the UK, it may not get through customs. This lack of sleep really affects thought processes and decision making!

I actually think it will be very difficult to get a px for melatonin from a GP in UK because it's only supposed to be prescribed for over 55s..... Early last year my husband lost his dad and suffered with terrible insomnia, but gp refused to prescribe zopiclone/other drugs. But maybe it's for the best. I think I might just try some elthea at 2am when I wake, to try and settle back to sleep. Thanks for the information and advice!!

[ChessieCat]

12 minutes ago, Kris73 said:

think I might just try some elthea

 

l-theanine-for-anxiety-insomnia

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

[Ariel]

Hi Kris73,

 

I've been reading through your thread and can really relate to your story. I was first put on psych meds at age 17. My life was more or less dominated by the psychiatric/psychopharmacological narrative for the next 25 years. I'm currently in my fifth year of protracted withdrawal. It's rough going, and I look forward to recovery. Thank you for sharing your story. It helps to know I am not alone. Here's to witnessing each other and supporting each other on this healing journey!

 

I am sorry for the loss of your beloved dog. My heart goes out to you. 

 

Re: melatonin

I am sorry you are dealing with ongoing insomnia. I feel for you and am familiar with how taxing it can be.

Melatonin has been a game-changer for me in this process. I take 2mg every evening at 9pm. It helps me to fall asleep and I'm usually able to get 3-4 hours of sleep in before that classic withdrawal 2am wake-up. It's still not enough sleep by any means but it's a vast improvement over how it was before.

Where I live melatonin is also prescription-only. I purchase my melatonin online via an EU webshop that ships internationally. I haven't had any difficulties with customs (knock on wood). I'd be happy to send you the link to the webshop. Send me a private message if you're interested. 

 

Thanks again for your posts, and best of luck to you! It's hard work and you're doing a great job!

Love,

A.

 

 

 

 

[Ariel]

Hi Kris73,

How are you going? 

I'm thinking of you and sending good vibes. 

 

Last week I managed to "install a blackout curtain" (really just thick black cloth on a couple of hooks!) in my bedroom. It's very helpful for sleep. Despite the time change this past weekend, which has thrown me off a bit, I'd say the increased darkness facilitates an extra 1-2 hours total per 24-hour cycle, incl. daytime naps. I'll take it! 

Also, in an attempt to minimize the nighttime toilet trips I'm trying to be mindful of not ingesting liquids past 6:30-7pm. Requires some presence of mind (a challenge in and of itself these days) but seems to be worth the effort. 

 

Best wishes, all good things,
A.

 

[Kris73]

Hi @Ariel

Thanks for asking, it means a lot.

well done on the blackout curtains! I've had blackout blinds for a while, ever since I used to do night shift as a psych nurse in the dim and distant past.They are great but could probably use some updating as there are some tiny gaps which let a little bit of light in.

things been tough since clocks went forward at weekend. The darkness of winter definitely helped sleep, finding now there's more daylight, things are slightly worse. I have recently tried Ashwaghanda (via naturopath) last two nights. First night definitely less hours sleep. Maybe four. Last night couldn't get to sleep (highly unusual for me) and less overall again, maybe three hours.

however, the context of this is I had a GP appointment today for a health issue, and the stress of anticipating this probably contributed to overall lack of sleep. Because my sleep has been so poor over last while I was really tearful and upset, and she prescribed Zopiclone, which I was surprised at. Seemed like it may help, but problem is, I can't afford hangover/fatigue/etc as I want to be able to drive during the day. Also discussed going back on antidepressants and HRT. If I do anything it may be try HRT. Just have to remind myself of the hell antidepressants could precipitate by reading other folks stories. I know I can't do/risk this.

I actually feel quite annoyed at how blase the doctor was, I didn't even ask for sleep meds! They are utterly clueless as to withdrawal, I didn't even go down that road... because I knew I'd be banging my head against a brick wall.

I tend not to (or try not to!) drink too many fluids after 5-6. As I tend to conk out around 8pm. Last few days have been so tough, wondering if it's a wave.....

Sending kind wishes,

K

 

 

[Kris73]

Hi @Altostrataand @ChessieCat

Sorry to tag you both, but I wonder what your thoughts are on zopiclone and if there are any links. Prescribed zopiclone yesterday but very wary.

many thanks for your time and attention. I can't say enough how much I appreciate the site and all the work you do in assisting people with withdrawal issues.

Wishing everyone a good day!!

[Ariel]

Hey there K.,

 

things been tough since clocks went forward at weekend. 

 

I hear ya. I find that my WS system is extremely sensitive to any changes, no matter how seemingly banal. The time change felt like a big deal for me, too. My system accelerates into a hyper-alert state, like: Whoa, what's happening, do we need to be worried, okay let's be very very worried just in case!!  I think it goes with the dysregulation territory. Poor, sweet nervous system -- writing this I'm getting the image of a very sensitive, high-strung dog, who really only wants to protect us but often misunderstands the situation and overreacts. Unconditional love and devotion gone adorably dysfunctional. This week, in addition to the time change, another example has been we've had a shift in temperature. After a few weeks of warm, spring weather, yesterday it was snowing. My nervous system did not approve! Haha ... The experience is very real, and at the same time, it kinda makes me laugh. That fiercely loyal doggy, saving! my! life! from shocking! weather conditions. Whoa whoa whoa, what is happening??!?!! This is *not*, I repeat *not* the same weather as the past few days!!!??!  I DID NOT APPROVE THIS CHANGE AND NOW IT'S ALL HAPPENING!!!!

We are nature, created to withstand and survive. This certainly makes for some pretty wonky bodily responses during withdrawal syndrome -- while simultaneously being the very guarantee of our healing! Isn't that something ... When I have a funky physiological reaction, e.g. a wave, I try to remember: This is my body doing its job; it's just a little confused right now; but it's actually doing its job to the best of its current ability; learning/healing in process. 

 

Last night couldn't get to sleep (highly unusual for me) and less overall again, maybe three hours.

however, the context of this is I had a GP appointment today for a health issue, and the stress of anticipating this probably contributed to overall lack of sleep.

 

This makes so much sense! I do not look forward to doctor's appointments. Going through WS and dealing with doctors and psychiatrists, in addition to whatever unfortunate experiences came before WS (decades' worth!), has led to much apprehension and sometimes downright distrust of the allopathic medical paradigm and its practitioners. Not a fan. I understand completely how one can feel tense or on edge leading up to a GP appointment (for any issue at all), and that this could easily affect sleep the night before. 

How do you feel about your GP? Do you trust her? Have you told her that you are suffering through withdrawal syndrome? If you have shared this with her, is she supportive? It sounds like you have some misgivings about your GP, and that you haven't confided in her about WS, but i'm not sure I'm reading that right so just wanted to check. 

 

I actually feel quite annoyed at how blase the doctor was, I didn't even ask for sleep meds! They are utterly clueless as to withdrawal, I didn't even go down that road... 

 

Yeah, it's so annoying when they push psych meds on you when you haven't requested them. This has happened to me countless times. I am particularly aware of it since WS started, as this is such a huge part of the problem and probably one of the main reasons that so many people get started on psych meds to begin with (where I live GPs prescribe antidepressants left and right, very often unsolicited). I'm sorry you had this experience. I wish medical students were taught the Art of Listening!

 

Whatever you decide to do in regards to the Zopiclone and HRT, I just want to say that I believe in you. From what I can see in your signature it looks like you're about one year into dealing with withdrawal syndrome (not sure how you count it), and that's a big deal. It's very hard work, and you've been going the distance. I applaud your strength, your courage, your perseverance. You can do it, and most importantly, you ARE doing it! You may be in a wave right now, and there are most likely more waves to come -- and you are getting through it. We will recover, I truly believe this. That means that every single difficult moment brings us that one moment closer to recovery. I believe in you! 

 

Goooo us! <3

A. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

19 hours ago, Kris73 said:

Hi @Altostrataand @ChessieCat

Sorry to tag you both, but I wonder what your thoughts are on zopiclone and if there are any links. Prescribed zopiclone yesterday but very wary.

many thanks for your time and attention. I can't say enough how much I appreciate the site and all the work you do in assisting people with withdrawal issues.

Wishing everyone a good day!!

 

What drugs are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages? How do you feel before and after each dose? What is your current sleep pattern?

[Kris73]

Hi @Altostrata

Thanks for your response. Currently I'm on no psych meds having cold turkeyed from Prozac last February.

currently I take:

am- magnesium citrate, fish oil, fybogel, cerazette 

pm- magnesium citrate, ashwaghanda (since Monday night in the hope it'll improve sleep), also sometimes take oxybutinin 2.5 mg around two am when I wake because my bladder seems to get hyperactive thereafter.

 

my sleep pattern has been approx 8pm to two am with maybe one wakening at midnight, then wakening around two am, and more often than not, not getting back to sleep, so awake until rising at approximately 6.30am.

although I have to admit I have managed some more sleep past the two am wakening, the last couple of nights, possibly due to the ashwaghanda supplement or possibly due to speaking to a doc about my health concerns. A big factor has been overheating at night so I've also tried to make my covers lighter.

I just wondered how people find zopiclone, as I'm wary knowing it can have a bad hangover effect and I want to be able to drive during the day. For that reason alone I'm reluctant to take it. Not to mention the possible effects it could have on a WD sensitised nervous system. I just have no faith in doctors anymore and I know the doc was probably trying to help (she's doing bloods and I have an appointment with a psych liaison nurse on Monday, for which I don't hold out much hope, anticipating they'll try to encourage me to start ADs again). It's so frustrating because although I was looking for melatonin before (and had it been available OTC I would have tried it as I was so desperate), I didn't ask for sleep meds and I was quite shocked to be offered zopiclone.

sorry this is a little rambling, thanks again for your assistance.

With very best wishes,

Kris

 

[Toast]

Hi @Kris73, 
 

I feel your pain! I have sleep issues as well and have had them consistently since I tapered from Prozac. My problem is a bit different as I can’t fall asleep until 2 or 3 am, then I wake up very late like 1 pm if I sleep in, but usually I have work so I have to wake up earlier and then I don’t have enough sleep. Two things that seemed to help a bit for me are reading a book before bed and also taking resveratrol before bed. But I still have sleep issues, these just helped once or twice. I would not take zopiclone if I were you, the same doctors who prescribe that also hand out ssris like candy. I hope your sleep improves!

[Kris73]

Hi @Toast

Thank you for your input. Yes I instinctively feel that taking Zopiclone won't be right for me. That was prescribed on Wednesday and although I was tempted, I have resisted, partly through fear, partly because I value my ability to drive during the day too much. And also awareness now that most things a doctor will prescribe will have some sort of side effect.

I have been trying to read a book at wakeful points....my husband comes to bed around 11-12mn and I take the opportunity to have a read and it helps getting back to sleep.

really feel for your issues with sleep too. In some ways I feel lucky that I can zonk out, but it's purely through exhaustion having been awake since maybe 2-3am.

I think also that some of us are naturally owls or larks and our sleep issues can be an exaggeration of these natural tendencies. I'm guessing you work a back shift pattern? Shift work probably doesn't help. It's great however that you can hold down a job. I don't feel in a position to do this (yet!). Something for the future.

thanks again for your message.

take care ❤️

[Altostrata]

For withdrawal syndrome, your sleep pattern is not too bad.

 

On 3/31/2022 at 11:34 PM, Kris73 said:

although I have to admit I have managed some more sleep past the two am wakening, the last couple of nights, possibly due to the ashwaghanda supplement or possibly due to speaking to a doc about my health concerns. A big factor has been overheating at night so I've also tried to make my covers lighter.

 

As you probably know, we are not enthusiastic about adding drugs. You may be able to improve your sleep by non-drug means, why not do that?

 

Please review 

On 3/15/2022 at 1:18 PM, Altostrata said:

I'm sorry you lost your furry friend, that must have been hard.

 

You might find it helpful to take 0.25mg melatonin when you wake at 1 a.m., darken your bedroom with blackout shades and curtains, and wear a sleep mask to keep out the dawn light.

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

 

[Ariel]

Hi @Kris73

I wanted to share a brief (!?) response to your sugar inquiry on my thread. Hope it's okay that I'm getting back to you here. 

My mind is elsewhere atm, so I'll just say that I do find avoiding sugar to be really helpful in just about every way. Along with eliminating caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, and processed foods, cutting out refined sugar can be very supportive in healing gut issues and facilitating day-to-day symptom management. I write this as someone who knows the benefits of functional nutrition and is also imperfect at following set dietary guidelines. 

 

You asked: "I wonder how you manage to avoid sugar in your diet? Is it a question of simply avoiding sweets, chocolate and sugary drinks? Or is it more involved?"

 

Yes, certainly avoiding sweets, chocolate, sugary drinks. Also avoiding anything containing artificial sweeteners (for all sorts of reasons). Personally, my WS gut can't handle fruit sugars (fructose, fructans), either, so I've had to cut out fruit as well.

It's essential to familiarize oneself with food packaging label lingo and read nutritional ingredients to ensure that there is no added sugar in store-bought pre-packaged foods (which is a major culprit; once you know to look for it, it shows up pretty much everywhere in processed foods, ready-made pre-packaged everything; I imagine you're familiar with this already -- let me know if you'd like more background info).

Basically, the simplest way to avoid added sugar is to prepare one's own meals as much as possible using whole food ingredients. (This may require a different sort of planning than one is used to and can seem daunting initially, but can eventually become second-nature.)

Drink water, maybe unsweetened herbal tea if your system can handle that. (My gut can't do tea in WS.)

When implementing dietary changes we all have different starting points; what may feel like a massive undertaking and lifestyle shift for some may seem immediately manageable to others. Not sure where you're at with this stuff -- feel free to ask or not as needed. 

The main thing is to be patient. Behavioral change takes time and effort. One can start by cutting out the more obvious things, or whatever seems most easily accessible. For example, if one is used to eating a sugary breakfast cereal in the morning, one can aim for substituting unsweetened whole grain porridge, e.g. oatmeal (maybe with some cinnamon, which can evoke sweetness, and a dollop of nut-butter for flavor). Or if going an overall low-carb or no-grain route, starting by modifying breakfast to mean eggs and avocado, or whatever works within that framework. It's a process. Along the way, notice how your body is reacting to the various food changes, how the food feels in your system at various stages, and tweak accordingly. It's individual and there's a learning/discovery curve to it all. 

Of course, the bottom line is: one has to eat. There are many quotidian aspects to consider, especially if one lives in a larger household and happens to be in charge of culinary duties. It can be inordinately demanding to have to coordinate multiple meal plans and cater to a wide variety of dietary preferences every day, multiple times a day. Especially in withdrawal! We can only ever do what we are able to do. If a nutritional overhaul seems stressful and insurmountably intimidating when it comes to putting it into practice, f* it, you know? We're only human, and we're doing the best we can. Baby steps. One day, one meal, one little jar/spoonful of puréed carrots-and-peas at a time!

 

I'm sorry if this is all very basic and more general than what you had in mind with your original question. It's such a vast topic and I'm not quite sure how to tailor my reply not knowing your current parameters. Also, there's so much information out there about what to eat and what not to eat, often conflicting and confusing, that even the sharpest non-withdrawal brains frequently get overwhelmed trying to figure out how to proceed!

A great place to start or seek sensible, down-to-earth ongoing support is Michael Pollan's wonderful (short!) book,

"Food Rules: An Eater's Manual": https://michaelpollan.com/books/food-rules/

 

Here on SA I've found this topic useful -- it offers a discussion of various no-sugar nutritional protocols, in case you're looking for inspiration:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/890-scdgapspaleo-diets/?tab=comments#comment-7709

 

If it's feeling difficult to read bc of cog fog and such, there are several documentaries that strive to inform on the sugar issue specifically. A popular one is "That Sugar Film", which can be streamed one way or another: https://thatsugarmovement.com/film/

 

Did I answer your question? Let me know if I missed the mark! 

Bon appétit <3

A.

 

 

[Ariel]

Hello again, 

Don't mean to jam up your thread, just thought of something that might be applicable to share in regards to sugar elimination:

It gets easier! If one is used to sugar in one's diet it can feel like a challenge at first not having it. There's the awareness bit, the behavioral change bit, and sometimes also the craving bit. However, my experience is that if one can just stay the course in the beginning, it gets so much easier and eventually becomes second nature. When I don't eat sugar, I don't crave sugar (under normal, non-WS, cortisol-spike, brain-gone-haywire circumstances, of course!). Moreover, when I don't eat sugar, I don't even particularly like it anymore if I suddenly do have it. My palate changes and I lose interest in the one-note sweetness of sugar. I think of this as "eating from the gut as opposed to eating from the brain" (I have no idea whether that's in any way scientifically representative, it's just my way of describing the experience). When I ingest sugar in this state, I find it boring, but I also notice how it immediately affects my brain. It's a total drug-addiction type response. As unsatisfying as the sugar-consumption-experience is to me as an eater, e.g. I feel unimpressed and would rather eat something else, that same lack of satisfaction gets twisted by my brain into a screaming command of: MORE! It's like, bc my gut finds it unsatisfying, it would rather seek out a more satisfying alternative; whereas my brain, in encountering something unsatisfying (or maybe only fleetingly impactful), demands more of the same, as though a greater quantity of emptiness would change its very quality. It's like two different approaches, almost like a culture clash! My brain is prone to sugar addiction for sure. 

Anyway, my point is, if eliminating sugar from your diet is something you want to explore, and if it seems tough a first, it does eventually get easier.

Oh, and a practical tip for implementing any sort of dietary changes that involve cutting out certain foods in favor of others: better to make a list of the foods that are available to eat, rather than making a list of off-limits foods. Just a little refocussing tool that I've found useful. 

Okay, sorry to spam you with multiple messages. Hope it's not annoying, feel free to ignore! 

Kind wishes and good digestion to you, 

A.

 

 

[Kris73]

Hi @Arielthanks so much for all this information. It will indeed take some time to process and digest! I know I need to make a change...this morning I have had sugary granola for breakfast and I know it's far too sweet and I'm hungry again after around an hour and a half, but at the same time making these changes is quite overwhelming. But I take your point about slow and steady. Rome wasn't built in a day. I need to rest and digest, and assimilate all that you are saying for I know instinctively that this is good advice. Thanks also for the links. I will be working my way through these in the next few days.

Kindest wishes and regards

Kris

[Kris73]

Hi again @ariel

 

Did I answer your question? Let me know if I missed the mark! 

 

Just say you have more than answered my question, and what you have said is quite inspirational. I will keep you posted on my progress. Thank you so very much 😁

[Kris73]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:42 PM, Altostrata said:

For withdrawal syndrome, your sleep pattern is not too bad.

 

 

As you probably know, we are not enthusiastic about adding drugs. You may be able to improve your sleep by non-drug means, why not do that?

 

Please review 

 

 

Hi @Altostrata thank you for your wise response. I am grateful that my withdrawal sleep pattern is not as bad as it could be and I will persevere with non-drug methods. Zopiclone is not the answer.  There are other sleep specific apps I can try. I had an appointment with a "psychiatric liaison nurse" on Monday and they signposted a couple, and suggested some ways to try to reset my sleep pattern because it's maybe not so much quantity as inappropriate timing ie 8pm to 2am. So I'm going to try to stay awake longer in the evening (aim for 8.15-30 to start) in an effort to recalibrate. 

As always, "thank you" for taking the time to reply. Have a great day!

Kris

[kestrel28]

Hi, Kris 73,  

 

I can relate.   I have been on prozac (mostly) for almost 31 years.  I recently went off 20 mg for about 5-6 weeks at about the end of February this year, (due to lack of sexual feeling).  At first, I was feeling fine,  but after some weeks, I started feeling panicky and also was crying at the littlest things sobbing my eyes out, and yelling (extreme irritability).  That's when I decided to go back on prozac just short of two weeks ago.   I'm pretty sure I was having withdrawal symptoms and this was not the first time I came off of prozac.  

[Kris73]

Hey @kestrel28I'm sorry about your struggles with Prozac. How have you been since you reinstated?

That was my experience too, it was a few weeks after stopping that the withdrawal effects kicked in....how many times have you tried stopping?

sending best wishes, Kris

[kestrel28]

Hi, Kris73;  I've stopped numerous times over the years but I always ended up going back on Prozac because the other SSRIs did nothing for me.   

 

I've been very nervous 15 days in, feeling like my nerves are on edge.  It's probably because the drug has been reintroduced to my system so many times that it has become ultra sensitive to it now.  

 

I really wish I could function without having to rely on an SSRI.   

 

What really stands out is the crying that will kick in for no apparent reason.   Perhaps my withdrawal is still happening, because fluoxetine takes weeks to fully get back into one's system.