BelaLugosi: personality and spirit broken

[BelaLugosi]

Hi everybody
It's so great that this forum exists

so.
just left Sertraline a few days ago. 1+ month off Olanzapine (Zyprexa). still on Lithium.
Here's how I usually explain to people how I feel since I started medication: I feel like i don't have a soul anymore. I can't feel things deeply, I have existencial thoughts that mostly aren't even thoughts but like concepts and structures related to meaningless in my head. I lost my personality. and I feel like my EGO is weak. in a sense of Ego being a good healthy necessary thing.

let's start with this Ego sh*t.
it's the weirdsest thing but it's like my sense of attachment and PRIDE doesn't work properly anymore.
the best way I usually find to explain this: when somebody hands you a compliment, the normal reaction is to feel proud, but my mind goes like "this is not even true because I kinda don't exist, and mostly I didn't ask to be born with these qualities" almost like you don't have any power and choices in life? it's a nihilistic involuntary structure of thought, it's hard to explain. also this happens in a abstract way, not with proper words
there's some kind of emphasis in normal brain's thoughts and actions that seems to be lost here, like "i'm claim this because I deserve it". it's almost like merit, worth, pride found all human psychologically healthy comunication (in a way that we don't even realize it, it's just normal, really what we call EGO)
Other ways to explain it: the thought that social justice doesn't make sense because the decision of who suffer and who doesn't is a misterious divine decision and nobody can't do anything about it (I used to be a very political person).

My life before medication: I used to think and feel all sort of things about everything that was magical and spiritual, about love, about love being God and spirit, about art and poetry.
This is gone. I'm almost in tears right now
Because this affects the personality SO MUCH.
The "me" that used to be, I lost sight of it.
The word for "witty" in portuguese is Espirituosa
Spirit is related to charm so much
And I lost it, my CHARM!!!!!!!!!!!!
The way I MOVE man, my libido
My personal power
My presence when I enter a place
People. Look. at. me. differently. now. I simply KNOW
The way people treated me differently, that was how I realized for the first time that something was really wrong

I feel socially dumb
My understanding of human relationships and how they work it's simply not organic. it's WEIRD
either i'm clueless to other people possible bad intentions and treat them too kindly or i'm reactive and angry inside because they don't see me the way I used to be seen which means the loss of my personal power
I feel like, if I got into a fight, I would lose. which doesn't mean I'm less agressive because I keep punching my pillow with the doors closed when I feel upset (everyday)

my mother's loud laughter upsets me A LOT idk why maybe because she says she can't see the difference I'm always crying about. the family spent some time away but still it should be noticeable.
that's not why her laughter upsets me tho, maybe I just get angry because she is the woman in the house who haves a personality. it's not a proper thought in my head tho, I'm just guessing.

 

Also I can't sing like I used to

one of the things that I loved the most

and took pride in

do you think that the existential aspect could be actually caused by the lack of personality, like, If I'm not ME.. like... what the actual F*CK! nothing EXISTS
also what's the meaning of living if you don't have emotions and connection right
and for you, that got cured from the existencial thing (please be there), how was getting off of it? was it simply little by little? the normal, zealous thoughts about life were returning and replacing the weird ones?
at this point I almost feel like it's not possible to change. it's scary not being able to visualize how you would get off of it, once it already seems like something very fundamental, inexplicable and cristalized inside. it's not that I don't smile anymore. it just comes with a void.

oh, to be bitter and hopeless (not only about recovery but life subjects in general)... this looks like half of the hole thing
I guess I'll have to give myself an advice here: don't mistake the reality of this moment with the real one (weird.)

more motives why I fear not getting better:

lately everyday feels like the same day
i've never felt suicidal in my life before
I wonder if I feel like this simply because I suffered too much and not because of the meds (even tho I probably suffered the most the first two weeks of medication) (I did become a empty body filled with only agony due to so much suffering, like I was a dug earth a dead river cursed cursed cursed) (I came to fear that these days were responsible for traumatizing me, to the point of turning off my soul) (it's like the whole period that took me to the medicine got put together with those weeks and boom) (anyway I do believe the meds are the main responsible.

this one is maybe silly, but I also fear not coming back to me because sometimes you guys talk about the chemistry coming back to the "normal state of the brain" but like my social habilities were formed and refined after my adolescence, they weren't always there... I'm 24

P.S.: I don't know if I should post this content and talk about ssri and psichiatric medication syndrome in public spaces where people do know me, a lot of times I feel the need to, also because I would "inform" people why i'm different lately in case they notice (I make videos for YouTube about other subjects). but that's the same reason why I don't feel like it's a good idea to talk about it, they would see me as this person with this symtoms and someone without a soul in my own words. after all I hope to get better, so for sucess of the process I don't want people to look at me like this.
Just a little p.s. that I wanted to share

please tell me your thoughts! bye thanks

 

[Kiasofia]

Welcome @BelaLugosi

I am sorry you are going through this and are suffering, but relieved you have found us. This forum is run by others like you who have been through and survived, or are surviving, the negative effects of psychiatric drugs.

 

Strange emotions, not feeling emotions, feeling like we've lost ourselves, and so much more can be a consequence of taking these drugs.

Derealization or Depersonalization

Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

 

How long have you been taking lithium? Have you taken any other psychiatric drugs than olanzapine, sertraline and lithium? Why were you prescribed these drugs?

 

Thank you for creating a signature. Can you please add:

Dose of olonzapine when you quit

Dose of sertraline when you quit

When you started lithium and dose

 

Coming off these drugs can cause many different withdrawal symptoms, often leading to doctors thinking the original condition is returning or that another mental illness has emerged.

What is withdrawal syndrome?

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

Are you experiencing any withdrawal symptoms? How is your sleep?

 

This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

[BelaLugosi]

@Kiasofia thank you! I will add the informations to the signature

 

I have been taking lithium for 4-5 months too.

Before this treatment I took Rissperidone and another meds that I don't remember the name but it was like only for 3 days (I couldn't sleep, literally was awake for 3 days in a row but crazy revelations as if I was using LSD I don't know lol)

then I changed the doctor for the one who prescribed me the signature meds, first due to a kind of "psychotic episode" and "disorganization", that was covered by Olanzapine, and Lithium for mood stabilization. then a few weeks later Sertraline for the depressive state. now my diagnose is Bipolar disorder, I kinda disagree but whatever

 

 

 

also my sleep is ok, I have the same problems I used to have before all this (waking up tired).

[Kiasofia]

It is very good that your sleep is ok now. Why were you given risperidone and the other med?  Why did you quit olanzapine and sertraline?

 

It can be bad for the brain to quit these drugs at their normal dose. This explains why:

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Many people are misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder, when actually they are reacting to taking a drug or reacting to quitting a drug. As mentioned, coming off these drugs can cause many different withdrawal symptoms, often leading to doctors thinking the original condition is returning or that another mental illness has emerged.

What is withdrawal syndrome?

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

Please update your signature with:

When you took risperidone for 3 days

Dose of olonzapine when you quit

Dose of sertraline when you quit

When you started lithium and dose

[BelaLugosi]

@Kiasofia right. I did taper! but not this gradually, actually I don't know how that percentage would go with pills because you can only split them in two without it turning into dust (I am probably saying something really dumb) anyways I was lowering the dosage every 2 or 4 weeks.

I stopped because I told my psychiatrist I was suffering because of the meds! It took a while to understand what the f was happening and that it could be the meds, then it took weeks to find this forum, First I was finding people on twitter who had weird experiences with meds

me and my psychiatrist did the gradual lowering of the dosages together

 

and I was given Risperidone and the other med for the same complaints I was given the next medication with the next doctor. when doing the first attempt of treatment everybody in the house thought I was too crazy and weird for not sleeping for 3 days (it was bad but I still had a personality and spirituality tho, sometimes I wonder what would have happened If I sticked with that first doctor and get even more desolated, it's no so good to wonder)

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by ChessieCat
removed white space at bottom of post

[BelaLugosi]

@TreeElf @Cleerity hi guys, could you check my first post here? I found you in another topic of the forum and think you might understand some things 

[BelaLugosi]

I want to add fatigue, nausea and extreme irritability as symptoms...

 

I will fix my signature as soon as I recover the informations in my recently dead smartphone

[Armorall]

Hi Bela,

I'm sorry to hear that you are suffering. Just wanted to drop by and say Cool Name! It will get better. Keep in touch, someday this will all be a distant memory. 

[Kiasofia]

18 hours ago, BelaLugosi said:

I want to add fatigue, nausea and extreme irritability as symptoms

The whole time? Or did it get better/worse after quitting Sertraline or Olanzapine?

 

What are your plans for Lithium? Will you continue taking it? Are you getting regular blood tests to monitor kidney and thyroid function?

Tips for tapering off lithium

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

Using a scale to weigh and measure doses

 

I would wait a few months before tapering lithium to see how your symptoms are after quitting olanzapine and sertraline.

 

You might find this website of interest : https://madinbrasil.org/

[BelaLugosi]

@Kiasofia wowww this website!! thank youuu!!!!

 

these did get worse after quitting sertraline...

okok, I will check out the links,

[BelaLugosi]

@Armorall hehe thank you..!! yes, sometimes is really hard to believe but I hope so...!

[BelaLugosi]

ooof the last days i'm seeing a pattern between being a zombie/robot and the ego thing because a conscious effort means doing something not automatically and existing

weird kinda useless little update

[Kiasofia]

23 hours ago, BelaLugosi said:

I want to add fatigue, nausea and extreme irritability as symptoms...

See attachment for common withdrawal symptoms. Your taper was fast compared to what we recommend, so it can take some time for the body to adjust. 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the central nervous system (CNS) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drugs. When the medication is stopped, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad. This is called windows and waves.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization  

Drglenmullen_withdrawal_symptoms.pdf

[Cleerity]

Hello BelaLugosi,

 

I don't log in to this site very often, but happened to come here this evening to update my signature to reflect where I am currently at with one of my meds.

 

I did read your first post and others here.

 

Seems to me you are a reflective and introspective person.  Good. 

 

I will say a bit more below, but best advice to offer right now is "Let it Be, Let it Be, Let it Be..."  From the Beatles:  

 

 

 

Ego is a tricky topic.  With abiding presence and observation (and journaling) you may make some valuable and astute discoveries during this experience of no-self ... and return with greater understanding.  Time itself is a great healer.  While we wait, it is important to do so with patience and acceptance of what(ever) presently IS happening in any given moment.  Even if the emotion that would afford a more palpable sense of self-love and self-compassion "seem" to be absent, rest assured it is with you.  Rest assured that "You Are."  Try to just "Be" with whatever is happening, whatever your experience of yourself is (thoughts, fears, emotions) without fighting or arguing with it.  Are you doing something to help you center and focus?  Drawing and coloring mandala-like images are great for this.  I have been through two profound existential crises.  Meaning and joy return.  For now, persevere with the greatest possible accepting presence to self you are able to. 

 

Have you ever heard of or read Eckhart Tolle's, "The Power of Now?"  It was a life saver for me over 20 years ago.  He has (I think) published a lot of other things since this (his first book), that I never got involved with, but this book was a Godsend for me.

 

Peace be with you,

Cleerity

 

Oh, a P.S. --- I see that you tagged me above and once I logged in to the site this evening, it did alert me someone had tagged me, but the site did not generate an email to let me know I had been tagged.  So, had I not logged in, I would not have known you tagged me...

 

[BelaLugosi]

I've just updated my signature.

I feel so f bad!

I want to have hope but how is it possible that your THOUGHTS and the way you think can change?

 

I was thinking, once I find it difficult to find people that complain about the Ego thing too, I was thinking if this meaninglessness feeling isn't the result of the DP, anhedonia, etc. like a more rational effect of it, it starts to build your opinions of the world.

also my vision is terrible lately.

[BelaLugosi]

and thank you @Cleerity this is sweet, I appreciate it.. and the fact you logged after a long time without having a notification 😭

[Kiasofia]

Thanks for updating your signature. Those were high doses you ended your taper at so it will probably take some time for symptoms to settle down.

 

How is your sleep?

 

I agree, it is scary that our thinking changes when we take/stop these drugs. They are psychoactive substances so it makes sense. Just like our thinking changes if we drink alcohol. But you will get "sober" again eventually.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

[BelaLugosi]

my sleep  is not  the best but it was always like this, I think  things are  ok in this department.

 

went out a lot the last 3 days, socializing really is good I think. I don't feel any substancial improvements (actually I feel a lot of DP DR) but it helps not engaging  the weird thoughts so much, feeling a little more real, organizing  thoughts  etc..

 

the main  theme was my suffering tho lol I like to educate people about the dark site of psychiatric  medication lately

[BelaLugosi]

I think I just had  my first ever brain  zap

 

having nighmares lately..

[BelaLugosi]

but guys let me tell you this. I used to have serious  dysbiosis  before all this things (psychiatric meds) happen to me and now IT'S GONE

????

[kostakonkordia]

3 minutes ago, BelaLugosi said:

but guys let me tell you this. I used to have serious  dysbiosis  before all this things (psychiatric meds) happen to me and now IT'S GONE

????

How do you know it's gone??

Edited January 13, 2022 by kostakonkordia

[BelaLugosi]

15 hours ago, kostakonkordia said:

How do you know it's gone??

well  I used  to have physical  symptoms.

maybe  it's  not gone because I still suffer with constipation, bloating,  but the fact I don't  feel that weird taste in my mouth before a crisis that used to  make me distinguishly tired  aand with low immune system...

[BelaLugosi]

also I wasn't able  to eat various foods  now my sensibility threshold is a lot higher

[kostakonkordia]

@BelaLugosi

Sounds that you still have dysbiosis. 

Also there is something called silent sibo(a form of dysbiosis) where people don't expirience gut related symptoms. 

It could also be that you're gut microbiom changed/improved(?) after psych meds because they all work like antimicrobials. So maybe they killed some of you're bad bacteria. But noone knows that. You only can do a full microbiom stool test to find out about which bacteria are overgrowing and then threat it. 

Im currently reading a paper where they suggest that when you first get dysbiosis certain bacteria manipulate the gut mucosa, so they get reproduction advantage. If I understood it right, with this manipulation they prevent the gut coming back into homeostasis. 

I would test for dysbiosis if Was you the symptoms are very obvious to me. 

What are you're other symptoms? Do you have brain fog, fatigue etc.? 

Greetings 

Kosta 

Edited January 13, 2022 by kostakonkordia

[BelaLugosi]

9 minutes ago, kostakonkordia said:

@BelaLugosi

Sounds that you still have dysbiosis. 

Also there is something called silent sibo(a form of dysbiosis) where people don't expirience gut related symptoms. 

It could also be that you're gut microbiom changed/improved(?) after psych meds because they all work like antimicrobials. So maybe they killed some of you're bad bacteria. But noone knows that. You only can do a full microbiom stool test to find out about which bacteria are overgrowing and then threat it. 

Im currently reading a paper where they suggest that when you first get dysbiosis certain bacteria manipulate the gut mucosa, so they get reproduction advantage. If I understood it right, with this manipulation they prevent the gut coming back into homeostasis. 

I would test for dysbiosis if Was you the symptoms are very obvious to me. 

What are you're other symptoms? Do you have brain fog, fatigue etc.? 

Greetings 

Kosta 

 

thank you for this knowledge. Yes it definitely  improved. crazy because I used to suffer a lot and no gastroentererologist could help me. BUT I WOULD RATHER HAVE MY PERSONALITY AND SOUL AND HAVE THAT SICKNESS AGAIN (in that worse form)..

 

Yes a lot of fatigue.

no doctor ever asked me for a dysbiosis test, I don't  know if there's such a thing in my country. I'll do my research

[kostakonkordia]

@BelaLugosi

No problem. I just want to help you. I'm in the same boat so yea. Kind of love you guys even though I don't know you... 

It could be multifactoral like lithium sideeffects and you're receptors still recovering. But dysbiosis may prolog this condition and hinder the heeling. I would also do blood work to check for vitamin deficiency. Dysbiosis can create malabsorbtion. 

Where are you from? Brasil right? 

I think a stool test should be avaliable everywhere. 

Don't forget to read the Reddit posts. 

Fatique could be leaky gut, but first you need to treat dysbiosis. 

Im still not shure if it's possible to treat dysbiosis while on drugs but I think it could help. I'm on still on drugs too so I will try it myself soon. 

[BelaLugosi]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:46 PM, kostakonkordia said:

@BelaLugosi

No problem. I just want to help you. I'm in the same boat so yea. Kind of love you guys even though I don't know you... 

It could be multifactoral like lithium sideeffects and you're receptors still recovering. But dysbiosis may prolog this condition and hinder the heeling. I would also do blood work to check for vitamin deficiency. Dysbiosis can create malabsorbtion. 

Where are you from? Brasil right? 

I think a stool test should be avaliable everywhere. 

Don't forget to read the Reddit posts. 

Fatique could be leaky gut, but first you need to treat dysbiosis. 

Im still not shure if it's possible to treat dysbiosis while on drugs but I think it could help. I'm on still on drugs too so I will try it myself soon. 

 

I found a dysbiosis exam/test in the big city near my town. They collect your breath and map the bacteries. I will be calling the laboratory next monday! I hope it helps. My stool tests never indicated anything wrong however I had dysbiosis all along.

If this exam doesn't help maybe I will go after the more advanced dysbiosis stool tests, but these I could only find in other states

 

Should the basic stool tests indicate dysbiosis?

[BelaLugosi]

I will be updating my signature because I tappered Lithium.

The whole taper lasted 2 weeks, I'm off of it now

 

Yesterday I felt like 2 emotions

These windows feel too timid and immaterial

I even find hard to call they windows but I think I have to, since one of the bad things that happen in my head it's to not recognize improvements right?

I don't know, sometimes I'm more hopeful, but most of the time I find all this a stupidity.

I DID feel that my thoughts were more organized the last week tho.

 

Also I wish I got more attention with this topic 🙊

Maybe my English is a little annoying like Anitta's kkkkkkkkkkk

[kostakonkordia]

2 hours ago, BelaLugosi said:

 

I found a dysbiosis exam/test in the big city near my town. They collect your breath and map the bacteries. I will be calling the laboratory next monday! I hope it helps. My stool tests never indicated anything wrong however I had dysbiosis all along.

If this exam doesn't help maybe I will go after the more advanced dysbiosis stool tests, but these I could only find in other states

 

Should the basic stool tests indicate dysbiosis?

If this basic stool test is a culture based one than no. These are always useless. You should go for a pcr based like 16s or gunshot sequenzing. Doctors usually don't do these tests and the insurance in most cases does not pay... You can order them online. These test are usually ver accurate. A breath test is okay but only shows you certain bacteria type overgrowth so not really accurate either. But it's ok for the beginning. 

[kostakonkordia]

2 hours ago, BelaLugosi said:

I will be updating my signature because I tappered Lithium.

The whole taper lasted 2 weeks, I'm off of it now

 

Yesterday I felt like 2 emotions

These windows feel too timid and immaterial

I even find hard to call they windows but I think I have to, since one of the bad things that happen in my head it's to not recognize improvements right?

I don't know, sometimes I'm more hopeful, but most of the time I find all this a stupidity.

I DID feel that my thoughts were more organized the last week tho.

 

Also I wish I got more attention with this topic 🙊

Maybe my English is a little annoying like Anitta's kkkkkkkkkkk

Good to hear :)). 

[Crochet]

@BelaLugosi 

 

I wanted to let you know that I think you've expressed the unexplainable parts of this withdrawal experience so clearly.  I think it is normal for someone in the withdrawal state to experience everything that you have experienced.  A lot of us just don't know how to express the existential crisis of it all, or it feels too dark to express, so we don't talk about it at all.  I felt like I was dead but trapped in my human form, somehow separate from everything occurring around me.  It was terrible.  I believe the mind is vast, but during the worst of this, I felt like I only had access to a tiny part of mind and this part of my mind contained nothing positive.  My compassion seemed to function during the worst of it, and this got me through.  So did hope.  I pray that compassion and hope will get you through, as well.  I am much better now, still healing, but better.  

[BelaLugosi]

@Crochet thank you thank you thank you for this message! it really helps! and great to know you are doing better

[Heinz1903]

@Crochet i can relate with this alot! can you tell more about the emotions you felt. If you are slowly being healed. Can you give me some advise?

Existential crisis, DP & DR. it felt terrible. Almost as if i'm not really there or connected to my body. it's a strange feeling.

 

[BelaLugosi]

I'm not bipolar, i'm having PTSD while still on the situation of abuse

 

I'm on quetiapine 500mg and oxcarbazepine I'm not sure the dosage

 

It helps me to  go through this hell

I just want to get a job and leave my parents house

I was hospitalized after posting the complaint against my father on Instagram without having evidence and going to another city

It was a act of desperation

I was having trouble eating since march

It's better now with quetiapine

But I am back in my parents house and even when my father stop  disturbing I still know that my mother knows everything and she knows that I know, they both know that I know they are being evil, it's a game

 

So hard to get better while still in this place but I think it's the only way

Even if i go to someone's house they will be making a drama about how they are concerned about my psychotic breaks

 

Which I kinda had 2021 and it was mostly out of public eye but God knows it was because of the hell this family makes my go through since always

 

I'm sorry guys that's too heavy

I will update my signature later

It's the second time I take medicine and hopefully the last one

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

Post #1 of this topic has links to the Tips for Tapering various drugs and getting non standard doses:

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

This link goes straight to your drug signature.  Remember to click Save:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[BelaLugosi]

Why you merged topics? I think it's really adequate to have another topic