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gevys survival from effexor ( new method treatment withdrawal from antidepressants)


gevys

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Dear Friends ! Sorry for my bad English ( I lived in USSR 40 years). From 1995 I investigated depression in animal models, but suffer magic depression alone from 1998 . 4 years I administrated antidepressant Prosac +Xamaks,but severity depression only intensified. From 2002 I started Effexor from 25 mg . I feel after effexor better (decrease anxiety, panic, insomnia), but all time need to increase dose effexor (to 150 mg in 2004).

I understood that dont possibility to live without effexor . From this moment i desided withdrawal from efexor. Every day 30 min before effexor I drink 100 ml 15% sorbitol . After 1 week combined administration sorbitol+effexor dosa efexor decrease to 90 mg , after 2 week -50 mg. After 1 month I drink only sorbitol without effexor . I drinked sorbitol alone else 6 month . After finish treatment by sorbitol I understund that dont need in treatment .

Last 7 year I live without depression and antidepressant

 

I contunue my investigations in animal models depression ,pain ,epilepsy with adrenomimetic and other agonists of peripheral receptors and osmostimulant sorbitol ,which stimulate vagal afferent . Chemical stimulation of vagal afferents by agonists of peripheral receptors and sorbitol eliminates pain, depression, anxiety, convulsions,decreases stress and, that the most important thing, in tens and hundreds times potentiates action of analgesics, antidepressants, antiepileptics, neuroleptics, without increasing of side- effects of drugs. Combination of effexor and other antidepressants in small doses with sorbitol and agonists of peripheral receptors induced maximal antidepressive effect without any side effects .

My method chemoreceptor vagal stimulation in details please read in attached file

 

 

Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195186#ixzz27tPV8YMWwith combination

method for potentiating drugs.pdf

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  • Administrator

Hello, gevys, welcome.

 

Your last dose of Effexor was in 2005?

 

It's good to hear you've recovered without any problems.

 

Your focus on the vagus nerve and tapering technique is interesting.

 

Sorbitol

  • Is found naturally in some fruits and juices (notably prune)
  • Is added to many "sugar-free" foods and even liquid medications
  • Is available in the US as an artificial sweetener
  • Sometimes triggers sorbitol intolerance causing gastric upset and diarrhea that may be mistaken for Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)

When anyone ingests too much sorbitol, digestive distress may result:

 

http://www.cspinet.org/foodsafety/labeling_sorbitol.html

 

I am glad your experiment on one subject turned out so well.

 

While withdrawal from antidepressants has its risks, people experience a range of reactions. Some can do a brief taper off Effexor over a month and suffer no withdrawal symptoms at all. It is possible that, coincidentally, you are one of those fortunate people?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

hello gevys,

welcome to the forum.. perhaps you could submit your model to David Healy for comment? I do not follow your explanation of how sorbitol potentiates the effects of drugs. If in fact it does potentiate the effect, then taking sorbitol before your dose would mean that you could take less, but wouldn't explain the absence of withdrawal effects unless you were one of the lucky ones.

As Alto says, many people can withdraw without problems.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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Thank You for nice comments . I agree with You that I am very fartunaty man ,becouse full and long elimination withdrawal from efexor 150 mg almost impossible. May be other patients will repeat my experience with sorbitol and will be lucky as me

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vagal stimulation by sorbitol and adrenomimetics causes strong activation of GABA neurones in brain therefore it inhibite hyperactivity of Glutamatergic neurones(main reason of withdrawal syndrom) and eliminate withdrawal of antidepressants ,benzodiazepines cocaine and opiates . Direct electrostimulation of the vagus nerve produced same antiwithdrawal effects .

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  • Administrator

Direct electrostimulation of the vagus nerve produced same antiwithdrawal effects .

 

gevys, what are your sources for this?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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FDA allowed to apply electrical VNS for treatment depression resistant to antidepressants( full replace of antidepressants) and alsow for combine therapy VNS+antidepressant for potentiation antidepressive effects and elimination side effects including withdrawal .

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Hi gevys, welcome and your work is very interesting. I am happy you found something for effexor WD.

 

Please keep us informed.

 

Nikki

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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FDA allowed to apply electrical VNS for treatment depression resistant to antidepressants( full replace of antidepressants) and alsow for combine therapy VNS+antidepressant for potentiation antidepressive effects and elimination side effects including withdrawal .

 

Thanks, gevy. Can you supply any links to "elimination side effects including withdrawal"? I've never heard of this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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vagal stimulation by sorbitol and adrenomimetics causes strong activation of GABA neurones in brain therefore it inhibite hyperactivity of Glutamatergic neurones(main reason of withdrawal syndrom) and eliminate withdrawal of antidepressants ,benzodiazepines cocaine and opiates . Direct electrostimulation of the vagus nerve produced same antiwithdrawal effects .

 

 

Barb this may have been what I saw "adrenomimetis".

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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You right , VNS increase efficasy of antidepressants in patients with resistent depression . VNS eliminted withdrawal syndrom only in experiments in animals(rats ,mices). My personal experiment with sorbitol is single ..

Adrenomimetic drugs are epinephrine and phenylephrine.

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It would be hard to tell if a treatment eliminated withdrawal symptoms in rodents, since so many of the symptoms are perceptual, cognitive, emotional, etc.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Administrator

Personally, I think you're on to something by focusing on the vagus nerve. I've found acupuncture affecting the vagus nerve to be helpful.

 

So far, we haven't found anything that makes withdrawal easy. Systematic tapering seems to be the only fairly effective approach.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thus sounds interesting, but once I ate a whole bag of my dads diabetic chocolate (contains sorbitol) and was stuck on the toilet for... A while... :-/ it wasn't pretty. Well it taught me not to steal my dads chocolate. ;-)

2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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Dear friends ! I whish you succeses in Your attempts to use sorbitol for elimination of antidepressant withdrawal .

Please use only 10-15% solution of sorbitol ( maximal volume not more 150 ml,best option 50-100 ml). chocolate with sorbitol or clear solid sorbitol not effective!!

large amount sorbitol 30-50 gram (30-50%) may to produced side effects (abdominal pain, diarrea).

best regard

sserdyuk

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Yes i tried 3 time come off from effexor but every time i returned to old doses of effexor . Only sorbitol help me really decreased dose of effexor and finally full eliminated withdrawal effexor

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Gevys,

 

Re you suggesting this helps even after having gone off ADs, forlingering symptoms?

 

Also, how does sorbitol affect the vagus nerve?

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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VNS (electrical) is main non pharmacological method treatment depression resistant to antidepressants. Sorbitol orally is cck enhancer. CCK is selective stimulators subdiaphragmatic vagal afferents. As result sorbitol may to treat depression alone without antidepressants . I had nice antidepressive effect sorbitol alone after full withdrawal effexor

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What kind of symptoms did u have when u tried to come off Effexor without sorbitol?

2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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In case come off effexor i feeled excitation , fear ,anxiety .insomnia, sometime panic atacks, suicidal ideas, bad appetite, tachicardia, diarhea, hyperalgesia . After restart administration old dose of effexor i back to almost normal life but on very short time .

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It sounds very interesting. When I used those (sugarfree candy/throat lozenges) that contained Sorbitol, I felt better... (because gut moves more) maybe something to try?

 

I have mild gastroparesis and Lyme. I am also on Effexor XR, now at around 49.8 mgs.

Have been on SSRI for 10 years. Failed reinstatement (450mg) with tolerance withdrawal (poopout after 2weeks)

 

Tapering helps to feel better some days. Very slow 6% each 2-3 weeks is the best pace for me.

Tapering process is still ongoing, now 4th year tapering the Devil poison Effexor XR.

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This is a very interesting topic; however, anyone considering using sorbitol should thoroughly research 'sorbitol' before trying. Alto gave some links in previous posts but I suggest you research even more than those two links.

 

I'm not trying to discourage anyone, just be safe. Sorbitol may not be a good choice for 'everyone'. Do your research.

 

I would love to give this a try but I'm not sure it's the best option for me as I have diverticular disease. Sorbitol is not easily absorbed and can build up in your digestive system even used in small dosages, if used consistently. It then ferments in your digestive system and can cause problems.

 

Research, research, research.

 

Love,

 

Tezza

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Very interesting information about therapeutical effect sorbitol .. Best option to drink 15% sol. sorbitol (100 ml) 60 min before eating. I agree with You that Sorbitol may not be a good choice for 'everyone' becouse sorbitol may cause abdominal discomphort, enhance intestinal motility and pancreatic secretion ,sometime diarhea. You must to do diffucult choice: effexor (withoout gastrointestinal side effects) or sorbitol .. .

Gevys

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Optimal schem of administration combination sorbitol+effexor:

8-00 sorbitol 15% -100 ml + effexor

9-00 first eating

 

12-30 sorbitol 15% -100 ml alone(without effexor)

13-30 second eating

 

19-00 sorbitol 15% -100 ml + effexor

20-00 third eating

 

after withdrawal from effexor

8-00 sorbitol 15% -100 ml

9-00 first eating

 

12-30 sorbitol 15% -100 ml 13-30 second eating

 

19-00 sorbitol 15% -100 ml

20-00 third eating

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if sorbitol produced side effects (diarhea,abdominal pain . nousea) You may decrease dose of sorbitol to 7,5 gr(15%-50 ml)

I whant to help all sufferers to come off from effexor and other antidepressants dependence.

Your sserdyuk

 

 

 

 

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